Kilmer17 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, clietas said: Even if Fairfax is proven innocent? If the accuser recants, then obviously. But if not, I dont see how it can be proven one way or another. She hasnt filed a lawsuit (that I know of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 54 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Fairfax: Should not resign. I get it is a bad look for Dems in the short term. But I think setting the standard that all it takes is an accusation of an event that took places years ago is dangerous for the long term. Weather the storm, do something to show you care about women's rights, welcome any investigation, and hold you head high through it. If he did it, he's got to go. The allegations are extremely serious, and I think the woman comes off as believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, clietas said: Even if Fairfax is proven innocent? I think it should be he is proven guilty rather than proven innocent, and I think that is kind of where the heart of this lies. He should be presumed innocent unless/until evidence proves otherwise. I think the issue was there was a group on the left protesting and pushing that people who say they were assaulted should be believed regardless of evidence. It came across as guilty until proven innocent. Evidence of something should be found before Fairfax has to step down, if he is proven innocent then there is no issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: If he did it, he's got to go. The allegations are extremely serious, and I think the woman comes off as believable. I don't think anyone is saying if he did it, he should stay. But how do you prove it? Or even get anywhere to say more likely than not that he did it. I agree she came off as believable. But so did he. Are you fine with only an allegation without even a sliver of proof or corroboration resulting in a person needing to step down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, clietas said: Even if Fairfax is proven innocent? How do you prove innocence in cases like that and Kav's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I don't think anyone is saying if he did it, he should stay. But how do you prove it? Or even get anywhere to say more likely than not that he did it. I agree she came off as believable. But so did he. Are you fine with only an allegation without even a sliver of proof or corroboration resulting in a person needing to step down? I think it comes down to a judgement of credibility. She comes off as credible whereas Fairfax comes off as a grade A douchebag who is desperate and slinging **** at everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I don't think anyone is saying if he did it, he should stay. But how do you prove it? Or even get anywhere to say more likely than not that he did it. I agree she came off as believable. But so did he. Are you fine with only an allegation without even a sliver of proof or corroboration resulting in a person needing to step down? It cant be proven either way. That's not the point though. The Dems nationally and Warner/Kaine from VA werent saying that during Kavanaugh. They would look terrible if they apply a different standard now to one of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said: It cant be proven either way. That's not the point though. The Dems nationally and Warner/Kaine from VA werent saying that during Kavanaugh. They would look terrible if they apply a different standard now to one of their own. Weren't they calling for an investigation for Kavanaugh? They should do the same here. No reason to jump straight to stepping down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 it enables better discussion imv to argue/establish, distinguish and define, the differences between standards of proof/evidence etc. as set in courts of law and the dynamics of "prosecuting/defending" such charges with elected officials as done in the public political arena, inc. congressional hearings obviously if there's spillover to actual court of law actions, that matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Just now, TheGreatBuzz said: Weren't they calling for an investigation for Kavanaugh? They should do the same here. No reason to jump straight to stepping down. Lots of Dems were saying things like "we believe her" etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, twa said: How do you prove innocence in cases like that and Kav's? Put Squees head in a vice until he squeals. Or a thorough investigation by the FBI. Both would be acceptable tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 Virginia Sen. Tommy Norment was an editor for VMI yearbook filled with racist photos and slurs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jumbo said: it enables better discussion imv to argue/establish, distinguish and define, the differences between standards of proof/evidence etc. as set in courts of law and the dynamics of "prosecuting/defending" such charges with elected officials as done in the public political arena, inc. congressional hearings obviously if there's spillover to actual court of law actions, that matters I think I have been clear that we shouldn't be looking for court of law standards but at least have some form of corroboration. There is literally nothing other than her word. And we should have a higher standard than that even in the court of public opinion. 4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Lots of Dems were saying things like "we believe her" etc etc. Was that before or after investigation? Honestly asking. I also don't really remember the details/timeline well enough to say if they were right or wrong in doing so. But I think my opinion of what is right and wrong are clear. It's amazing that we have SO many disaters with this administration that we can't keep the details straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Alright, here’s what I (as a VA resident which makes my opinion more valid than those of you not from VA) think should happen: None of them resign, unless there proven that a law was broken that means they should be removed from office. The state of Virginia has proven OVERWHELMINGLY that they want a Democrat executive. They shouldn’t have to give that up because we’ve been duped into voting for a bunch of people who have done abhorrent things (if those things are truly abhorrent). Especially if it means that they give that up to a party that OVERWHELMINGLY isn’t in agreement with how the state should be run. The three should sit there for their tenure as lame ducks and be primaried at the next election. If they get something done, great. If not then nothing is lost. Nobody from the Democrat party has to work with them or even acknowledge them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Why is it that we're talking about the possibility of manned mission to Mars but we still don't have a reliable lie detector? Or is DARPA sitting on the technology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Aww, they were feeling left out. 22 minutes ago, Springfield said: The three should sit there for their tenure as lame ducks and be primaried at the next election. If they get something done, great. If not then nothing is lost. Nobody from the Democrat party has to work with them or even acknowledge them. There isn't really a next election to be primaried in. Gov can only serve one elected term so all positions are basically up or out (it's why so many ex-governors run for Senate, they don't really have anywhere else of similar level to governor that they can (realistically) go). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Finally! A GOPer! And best of yet, he was the one PUTTING THE PHOTOS IN THE YEARBOOK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said: There isn't really a next election to be primaried in. Gov can only serve one elected term so all positions are basically up or out (it's why so many ex-governors run for Senate, they don't really have anywhere else of similar level to governor that they can (realistically) go). And let's face it, Northam, even before this mess, wasn't ever going to beat Kaine or Warner for a Senate seat. Northam's next job was probably lobbyist. He can still do that, he'll just need to go back to the other side of the aisle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Are you not entertained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said: Are you not entertained? Its the gift that keeps on giving the whole year- Cousin Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Cool, cool, cool. Although to be fair, this was an even longer time ago. Quote A Virginia Military Institute yearbook overseen by future state Senate Majority Leader Tommy Norment in 1968 features a host of racist photos and slurs, including blackface. The revelation about one of Virginia's most powerful Republicans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 So my thinking now is that probably only Herring gets out of this IF the VA Black Caucus backs him staying. Northam botched it and is still botching it. He's going to have no policy oomph for the rest of his term. He needs to be out. Fairfax could maybe hang on to Lt Gov if he didn't run for anything else, but he's damaged goods. Even with the allegation not rising to criminal evidence standards, her statement via attorneys was devastating. Combine with the news that a lawmaker knew of the allegations for a year and this whole thing smells fishier by the minute. It's he said/she said on consent, and while that's great for defending a criminal case, it's bad for a potential governor. Add in that any governor after Northam has to go through Fairfax, and I don't see how he can be effective in the Lt Gov or Gov role and he probably should step aside. Herring seems to have handled his blackface situation better than Northam. If he can turn it into a teaching moment and show how he's grown, it's conceivable he could survive. However, I think that requires the VA Dem Black Caucus to back him and his story of redemption. They don't need to if they don't want to. Beyond that, I think Tom Perrillo makes sense to be appointed Lt Gov. Give him a couple years experience and then run him as Gov candidate. A few years of experience will do wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Kilmer17 said: ..... And they cant all resign at once and let the GOP take over the Statehouse before redistricting. Who says they can't? As someone who is completely objective and neutral ( 😇) that would be my preference. That said I don't think Fairfax should resign unless additional evidence surfaces that supports the accusation that he sexually assaulted his accuser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 29 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said: So my thinking now is that probably only Herring gets out of this IF the VA Black Caucus backs him staying. Northam botched it and is still botching it. He's going to have no policy oomph for the rest of his term. He needs to be out. IMO Herring has the weakest leg (of the three) to stand on as he called for Northam's resignation over this before he came out and said he did the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I do find a bit of humor in the fact that some of the criticism of Northam early on was how it all unfolded. Some people even referenced that if he came clean on his own beforehand there would be less outrage and he could have saved his political career herring, watching all this unfold, and realizing he has a similar issue in his past, watching the criticism roll in, and undoubtably having ambitions of a bigger political career, decides to come clean and ask for forgiveness on his own. The response? resign!!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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