By TK in ES Coverage

[dyst]

On 1/14/2019 at 1:55 PM, Wildbunny said:

Still, that wouldn't be fair to Alex. Guy was all class here and don't deserve that. I'd love to see him throw another ball in a Redskins' uniform.

He still gets paid right? I wouldn’t feel to bad for him. If he makes a come back, he can sign with another team and get some more $$ from that new team.

[joeken24]

2019 will probably be the easiest year not to watch. Knowing how the plans (and who know what that is (???)) of this organization goes south, it doesn't really matter what QB they roll out next year. The offensive scheme is lethargic and predictable. The staff is happy with the WR's inability to separate and get open quick. They're ok with their QB getting manhandle. And they don't seem to have a problem with picking up soft tissue linemen.

 

So not good indeed.

[-JB-]

Gut the roster.  Finally rebuild.  For the love of god.

[Burgold]

I think it might be best to take the hit now. After all, the talent that we really want to keep: Allen, Payne, Ionadis, Settle are all on their rookie deals. Sure, you want to find a way to keep Kerrigan and you might even want to re-sign Peterson or keep Norman, but none of the other big contracts are for core players 2-3 years from now. If 2019 is likely to stink no matter what we do (and I think it will) then maybe this is the year to have the garage sale and get rid of a whole bunch of players a year early. It'd be tough to lose some guys who've been stalwarts and really gave their all to this team, but a number of those players are either slowing down or breaking down.

 

Now, if we get to April and Smith is at 90% and makes an AP like miracle recovery then the narrative changes. You try to get value out of that monster deal and with the good players you have, but if it looks like it looks now... it might just be best to pinch our noses and embrace the stink.

[carex]

On 1/14/2019 at 12:53 PM, method man said:

I've been advocating for this as well. The other thing to think about is that, given the depth of the 2020 QB class, it would pay off here to suck as much as possible. 

 

If there is great depth in the 2020 draft class then we wouldn't need to suck.  Elway may have gone first in 83, but Kelly went at 14 and Marino at 27

[skinsmania123]

Given the state of this organization is any logical person actually thinking a rebuild is going to change the results? Nope only us fans think that way.  How many years have we seen the turnstile of coaches, and players and mediocre records?  And the drama?  We had one ****ty overspending GM, replaced with a penny pinching egocentric boozer, who, while it is beyond comprehension how he managed it,  created an even bigger disaster.  

 

I keep thinking that somehow, some day Danny is going to wake up and realize that you can't do it this way.   That is the fan in me.   And after late last weeks and this weeks interviewing of potential DC's while they still had Manusky hired - how bush league is that?  For some reason I assumed Manusky knew they would be interviewing other candidates.   And I was certain they would get get Gregg W.  at his price.  That was the fan in me.  Now, after reading the entire thread, I realized Manusky had it done right in his face, with no heads up.  That is disgusting.  That is why people think this organization is a joke.

 

So why not gut the roaster as you release Alex and take the hit?   Alex never seemed to adapt nor did he look comfortable in Jay's offense.  Never.  It would be ridiculous to bring him back.  It would be very irresponsible actually.  Let him go.

 

 The people on this board that think Alex somehow made a difference are not factoring in that what kept us in in those extremely low, below average, scoring games.  It was not because Alex simply played  "mistake free football" and won games for us.   It was the D, which over time, eroded and showed who they actually were and tanked.    Many us before the season started knew the weak link would be the secondary and hoped the D line would help cover some of the deficiencies.   We still need an edge rusher, a difference maker there, but I digress.   We tanked because the secondary as it turned out to be over performed and then eventually returned to its base line, which is mediocrity .   

 

 So why not release all your high dollar, underperforming due to injury, or age players, and take your draft haul, and sign some younger players.  But will it make a difference?  Does the culture here and dysfunction outweigh any talent we put on the field?  The fan in me says we might be able to change it, but the bystander looking in, just someone who loves the NFL, and sees what successful organizations do,  says hell no. 

 

 

[Wildbunny]

@Burgold no way we get rid of Scherff.

 

@carex Montana was a 3rd rounder and Brady a 6th rounder. Ryan Leaf a first pick... List is long in both ways. I get your point but it's easier to have it right with the first or second pick than a late first or else...

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Paying off Smith and dumping other large salaries seemed like a great idea prior to Bruce increasing his stranglehold on power in Ashburn.

 

At this point, I’m not sure how anyone can muster a shred of enthusiasm about the future of the franchise nor condone Allen being the guy to decide who stays, who goes, and who replaces them.   Nothing about his history indicates that he will make moves for the future and will only continue to make desperate moves in hopes of avoiding a 3 or 4 win season.  I realize it goes against conventional fandom, but a 3 win season is exactly what this franchise needs.

[Burgold]

14 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

@Burgold no way we get rid of Scherff.

 

@carex Montana was a 3rd rounder and Brady a 6th rounder. Ryan Leaf a first pick... List is long in both ways. I get your point but it's easier to have it right with the first or second pick than a late first or else...

I wasn't thinking Scherff. I was thinking Williams.

[carex]

1 hour ago, skinsmania123 said:

 The people on this board that think Alex somehow made a difference are not factoring in that what kept us in in those extremely low, below average, scoring games.  It was not because Alex simply played  "mistake free football" and won games for us.   It was the D, which over time, eroded and showed who they actually were and tanked.    

 

 

 

 

that is what I hate about so many fans here.  The weakened version is always who we "actually" are.

 

 

[wit33]

Silly me, I thought the defense is in process of a rebuild mode.

 

Offense is next. 

 

[hatchetwound]

21 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

Absolutely. Get Smith off the books, trade Trent, trade our first for future firsts, lose 16 games. 

 

Good to see kind & gentle folks coming along. Trent should have been gone last year along with our first.

 

A lot of teams need a left tackle.  He may be getting up in years but we can still probably get something for him.  

[WelshSkinsFan]

The reality is that teams and players do not knowingly tank and especially not when the coach and GM are perceived to be living on borrowed time.  Jay and Bruce need to win more than they lose next year and that will drive the decision making so a full on teardown is not on the agenda.

 

To be fair.  We don't actually need a full rebuild as one of the few bright spots of the last couple of seasons has been that we have generally drafted pretty well and found some genuine talent.  The QB position is a glaring need presuming Smith is done but we do have good young talent in most of the position groups and in the case of some, such as the DL, we are pretty stacked with both talent and youth.

 

I do think Trent could be sacrificed at this point and I am in favor of moving on from Reed too as they are expensive and injury prone but I don't think a full rebuild is needed anywhere near as much as a culture change and better coaching in some spots.  I am actually ok with Jay, his last 4 years are right around .500 which in context is actually impressive given everything he has had to deal with.  A better DC is badly needed though and I would like to see Jay hand back playcalling duties to someone he trusts like he did with McVay so that he can focus more on the big picture stuff during games.

 

 

[hatchetwound]

We we are trying to tank to improve 2020 draft and try to get our cap in line, there might be some interesting candidates to cut or trade.  I was researching overthecap and there are some obvious and some painful options.  I don't know how trades effect the cap, so I'll just speak in terms of cuts.  But if we can trade and get picks, even better!!!

 

Trent Williams - Cutting will save 9 million

Norman - Cutting will save 8 million

Kerrigan - Cutting saves 7.5 million

Reed - Cutting will save 6 million

Zach Brown - Cutting will save 5.75 million

Vernon Davis - Cutting will save 6 million (He is our 10th biggest cap hit!!!!)

Mason Foster - Cutting will save 2 million

 

 

 

That's a total of 44.25 million!!!

[WelshSkinsFan]

If they cut Kerrigan I am going to riot.

[hatchetwound]

Yeah, but what if they could get a first rounder for him plus cap savings?  That would be huge for a rebuild.  Kind of like what the raiders did

[hawgboy]

53 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

If they cut Kerrigan I am going to riot.

I dunno.... If we are in tank/ rebuild mode the next 3+ years doesn't he deserve to play with a team that he could realistically contribute to a championship?

I love him, but if and when we dig ourselves out of this QB black hole he'll be in the twilight of his career.

[JSSkinz]

I think free agency is weak on offense this upcoming year so unload all the debt now, suck it up and be prepared to be a player in FA in 2020 so that you can give your shiny newly drafted QB (Fromm, Alabama QB, or whoever) some weapons.

 

If Alex misses 2019 which it sounds very likely he will then its crazy to think we are going to rehab a guy and bring him back for the 2020 season at 36 years old, not only will he be rusty but he's not that good to begin with so unload the bad debt and set yourself up with a clean slate in 2020.

 

 

Edited January 17 by JSSkinz

[JSSkinz]

22 hours ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

If they cut Kerrigan I am going to riot.

Why?  Is he going to make this a playoff team over the next 2 years?

 

Will Trent? Norman? Reed?

 

We have assets that barely have any value, in a year or two Trent, Reed, and Kerrigan won't give us any return.

 

If you have a connection to these players as a fan I get that but from a rebuild/business standpoint it makes sense to unload these older players now and stock up picks so we have some draft capital to use going into the 2020 draft, its possible we will need to move up which means we will need to give up picks, you don't want to do that when you only have 7 picks. If we have a terrible 2019 season then great, maybe we won't need to move up and we can use those extra picks to speed up the mini rebuild.

 

The organization has to stop being so short sited and that includes the fans, we have very few good players and half of them are old/injury prone.

Edited January 17 by JSSkinz

[carex]

give Smith an extension.  One year for a tiny amount but give him a bonus with it and rearrange the money to divide things up more in out favor.  The purpose of this is to give him cash to get him to agree but lower the yearly hit on our cap

[OVCChairman]

15 hours ago, hatchetwound said:

We we are trying to tank to improve 2020 draft and try to get our cap in line, there might be some interesting candidates to cut or trade.  I was researching overthecap and there are some obvious and some painful options.  I don't know how trades effect the cap, so I'll just speak in terms of cuts.  But if we can trade and get picks, even better!!!

 

Trent Williams - Cutting will save 9 million

Norman - Cutting will save 8 million

Kerrigan - Cutting saves 7.5 million

Reed - Cutting will save 6 million

Zach Brown - Cutting will save 5.75 million

Vernon Davis - Cutting will save 6 million (He is our 10th biggest cap hit!!!!)

Mason Foster - Cutting will save 2 million

 

 

 

That's a total of 44.25 million!!!

 

 

Ok so then we would have to add 2 ILB, 2 TEs (when Gruden loves playing out of a 3 TE set), Starting CB, Starting LT, Starting OLB to the list of needs.

 

I understand the idea that we need to open up space, and to a point I agree, but NONE of those positions have a viable option waiting in the wings.  ILB MIGHT be OK with Hamilton and Reuben Foster, but Foster is likely to get suspended for the first 4 - 6 games of the season.  

 

I'd CUT

 

Norman

Brown

McGee

 

 

I'd look to trade Reed and see if you can get something for him. 

 

 

Trent and Kerrigan have earned the right to retire as Redskins.  They fall into the same category with me as Darrell Green did with the Redskins and Ryan Zimmerman does with the Nationals.   They're ring of fame, 'legacy' players.  Make cap room elsewhere, they've earned that protection.

 

Of course this is the Redskins so who knows.... 

[goskins10]

47 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Ok so then we would have to add 2 ILB, 2 TEs (when Gruden loves playing out of a 3 TE set), Starting CB, Starting LT, Starting OLB to the list of needs.

 

I understand the idea that we need to open up space, and to a point I agree, but NONE of those positions have a viable option waiting in the wings.  ILB MIGHT be OK with Hamilton and Reuben Foster, but Foster is likely to get suspended for the first 4 - 6 games of the season.  

 

I'd CUT

 

Norman

Brown

McGee

 

 

I'd look to trade Reed and see if you can get something for him. 

 

 

Trent and Kerrigan have earned the right to retire as Redskins.  They fall into the same category with me as Darrell Green did with the Redskins and Ryan Zimmerman does with the Nationals.   They're ring of fame, 'legacy' players.  Make cap room elsewhere, they've earned that protection.

 

Of course this is the Redskins so who knows.... 

 

The have actually earned the right to play for a team that has a chance to win. They can still be put on the ROF after they retire. 

[carex]

59 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Ok so then we would have to add 2 ILB, 2 TEs (when Gruden loves playing out of a 3 TE set), Starting CB, Starting LT, Starting OLB to the list of needs.

 

I understand the idea that we need to open up space, and to a point I agree, but NONE of those positions have a viable option waiting in the wings.  ILB MIGHT be OK with Hamilton and Reuben Foster, but Foster is likely to get suspended for the first 4 - 6 games of the season. 

 

rumors suggest Foster might not be

[OVCChairman]

8 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

The have actually earned the right to play for a team that has a chance to win. They can still be put on the ROF after they retire. 

 

 

Absolutely, but that's their call.  They've earned that 'right'.  Meaning they can decide they want to leave, but they shouldn't be made a cap casualty.  If they want out, they can have that conversation and go from there. If they choose to sign elsewhere instead of here after their contract expires, that's their right as well.  My point is they deserve to be protected from being a cap casualty.  They're both playing to the level of their contracts.  

5 minutes ago, carex said:

 

rumors suggest Foster might not be

 

 

That would amaze me, but if that's the case, so be it... still not 'set' there, if nothing else we'd need depth. 

Edited January 17 by OVCChairman

[bird_1972]

On 1/14/2019 at 1:43 PM, Riggo-toni said:

No. The 41m figure is with the $12m insurance coverage already figured in. Otherwise we would be on the hook for over $50m in guaranteed money not yet spent (prorated signing bonus + guaranteed salary).

 

Bruce is such a negotiation genius! What a great contract! 

 

No wonder he got a promotion.