Renegade7

Trade up to draft Haskins???

Trade up to draft Haskins???  

174 members have voted

  1. 1. Trade up to draft Haskins???

    • Yes
    • No
    • Too Early
    • I don't know
    • I'll be honest, I don't care right now, but I might if this works


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Posted (edited)

*Disclaimer - There's more then one way to pull this off, so don't be a jerk about it.

 

Look, I know what you're thinking: this isn't the smartest use of resources.  We've done this before and it backfired.  We'd probably get hosed again, too.  This isn't a great QB draft.

 

Image result for boo this man gif

 

There will be plenty more reasons that come up in this thread not to do this, many of them valid, many of them I agree with.  In principle, this is a bad idea.  But I'm going to tell you a couple reasons why we have to do this anyway and why its worth the risk.

 

The man threw for 50 Tds and 8 Ints this year, obliterated Michigan, and showed such pro-style tendencies that even Urban Meyer had to say "F it, lets treat him like a pro-style QB".  He is, he's ready, I'm not interested in the conversation of him only doing it for one year.  You want to know why?  Because nobody else is, and neither is the Giants.  

 

Listen to me, he's from New Jersey and already said he'd love to play for Big Blue.  If he ends up there with Barkley we are screwed for the forseable future having to deal with that, Dak/Elliot, and Philly just winning the Super Bowl.  I was at the last game of the season against Philly, somebody switched seats with their brother so I could sit next to a Redskins fan, at home.  Ya'll really think that's going to get better if Colt is the starter next year?  When we say stuff like "lets just suck and come at it the following year", are we really taking into account what is happening with this fan base right now and what's at risk here?  I live in the area, I went to a barbershop to get my haircut by someone else for first time in 7 years, and I might as well have gone to one in Dallas.  There wasn't even a Redskins sticker in there.  And its not just transients, people in there from the area grew up associating this franchise with pain.  Not winning, not trying hard, or respectability, but suffering and absolute embarrassment.  

 

If Snyder and Allen insist on doubling down on this delusional attempt to prove everyone wrong, the only way hide just how terrible this franchise is top to bottom is a young, star Franchise QB, period.  That's right, I would rather be the Colts that get knocked out in the first round all the time with a HOF QB and completely feel apart the one year he finally got hurt then go into next season just seeing what happens.  At least they won a Super Bowl and went to another one, this might not happen in my lifetime at the rate we are going. We know what will happen if we just surrender next year, this football team will turn into the Wizards.  A franchise that winning a couple playoff games here and there won't regenerate the fanbase, it will need a generational type run and multiple rings to do it, which lets face it, the way our front office is liking the smell of their own **** is about as likely Snyder selling the team.

 

I believe this guy is going to shock people at the combine and take over the #1 QB prospect spot, even if he isn't the greatest QB prospect we've ever seen.  That's not the point.  The point is the Giants have a higher draft pick then us (and so do the Jaguars) and either one of them could take him.  I don't care about a QB that could be a good one, we need a QB that could be a great one.  I'm going to say this whether ya'll like it or not, I would not of given Cousins that money, but I know damn well if it was him at QB instead of going through 4 other guys, we'd be in the playoffs right now.  The 2018 Redskins would be in the playoffs with Haskins starting 16 games.

 

I'll go further:  Our reputation is BEYOND f'd up right now.  Having a successful black QB in DC is just what this franchise needs right now.  I don't want to get too political, but right now we aren't helping matters in regards to race relations or examples of model characters.  I was at the Ohio State stadium talking to folks, this is exactly the kind of face of the franchise slash role model we need right now.  I would do the RG3 trade with the Giants this year in a heartbeat if I had to just to get him in Burgundy and Gold and make sure they didn't get him.  The only thing worse then the Giants getting him would be us trading up then Giants trading ahead of us.

 

Again, this is soooo much bigger then what's the right thing to do right now, what other franchises would do, what I'd like to do in Madden Franchise mode.  Unless we want to see this franchise sink into an abyss it might never climb out of, this may be our last chance, right here, right now.  Take it, if it fails, well... that just means we were doomed anyway.  Go down swinging, you want to die on your knees or your feet?

Edited by Renegade7
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Posted (edited)

We had to give up a kings ransom to move up from #4 to #2 in 2012.  Moving up from #15 to likely #2 or #1 that might cost even more.

 

I think they are well positioned to have a bad year next year as is so they might be in position to get Tua, Fromm, etc.  And if not, I'd rather give up draft capital for that guy below than Haskins (even though having this position isn't as cool after yesterday -- still seen enough of the dude to be sold)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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@Skinsinparadise I don't know if you read my whole post, but I don't believe we have time to play around with this anymore.  

 

For all we know, Tua might be a bust.  Haskins might be a bust.  That's not the point anymore, not with the current state of the franchise.  Even if we don't have first round picks for the next 3-4 years, at least I know we'll have a chance of my kids even wanting to associate with this team 10-15 years from now.  

 

I'm willing to take that risk and certainly worth it to keep the Giants from getting him.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@Skinsinparadise I don't know if you read my whole post, but I don't believe we have time to play around with this anymore.  

 

For all we know, Tua might be a bust.  Haskins might be a bust.  That's not the point anymore, not with the current state of the franchise.  Even if we don't have first round picks for the next 3-4 years, at least I know we'll have a chance of my kids even wanting to associate with this team 10-15 years from now.  

 

I'm willing to take that risk and certainly worth it to keep the Giants from getting him.

 

I read it all.  Where I am coming from is I like Haskins but don't love him am not petrified about the Giants getting him and if they do get him they'd like have to give up serious draft capital.  And conversely I have a man crush on Tua, saw him play twice this year in person.  Yeah Tua could be a bust and Haskins could be a stud for all I know.  But studying college players all we can do is go with our own instincts and that's mine for now.

 

As this team being at a crossroads, etc yeah I agree but I'll risk it for one more season to get a complete reboot.  Tua is a role model too just like Haskins -- the Hawaii connection, etc -- he's a marketing dream at QB, and I'd guess create more buzz than Haskins. 

 

Edit:  I get the logic and agree with most of it.  I just would wait one more year that's all.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I read it all.  Where I am coming from is I like Haskins but don't love him am not petrified about the Giants getting him and if they do get him they'd like have to give up serious draft capital. 

1

 

I don't know, man, if you look at the draft order, who above the Giants would actually draft a QB?  Between Jaguars and Us, who besides maybe Denver and Miami would draft a QB?  Any of the 5 of us would pass out the *** to get Arizona's pick, or the Giants, but how many would actually do it considering how much it cost us just to move a couple spots?  They might not think its worth it, but I think we're in a completely different situation then any of those teams.  Jacksonville is only one that absolutely cannot go into next season with the same starter, but they aren't at the same level of risk with their fanbase as ours is.

 

Quote

 

And conversely I have a man crush on Tua, saw him play twice this year in person.  Yeah Tua could be a bust and Haskins could be a stud for all I know.  But studying college players all we can do is go with our own instincts and that's mine for now.

 

As this team being at a crossroads, etc yeah I agree but I'll risk it for one more season to get a complete reboot.  Tua is a role model too just like Haskins -- the Hawai connection, etc -- he's a marketing dream at QB, and I'd guess create more buzz than Haskins. 

 

Ya, I feel you.  We might be in this same situation next year where we cobble together a season where we'd have to trade up to get Tua, too.  Like you said, we can't reboot properly because we refuse to do it, we'll always be trapped having to trade up to get the guy we want, he's not going to fall to us.  So having said that, I don't want to take the risk of waiting for the perfect guy, its all subject to debate, the direct threat to this franchise is not.

Edited by Renegade7
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9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I don't know, man, if you look at the draft order, who above the Giants would actually draft a QB?  Between Jaguars and Us, who besides maybe Denver and Miami would draft a QB?  Any of the 5 of us would pass out the *** to get Arizona's pick, or the Giants, but how many would actually do it considering how much it cost us just to move a couple spots?  They might not think its worth it, but I think we're in a completely different situation then any of those teams.  Jacksonville is only one that absolutely cannot go into next season with the same starter, but they aren't at the same level of risk with their fanbase as ours is.

 

Maybe the Raiders but doubt it.  You got Jax, Denver and Miami all supposedly clamoring for a QB.  I'd presume a bidding war ensues.    Miami is a little in trouble with their fan base, like our team they've been treading water for a long time, its a boring team.   Jax has hit Code Red levels as to the QB spot and are supposedly willing to trade Ramsey. 

 

11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ya, I feel you.  We might be in this same situation next year where we cobble together a season where we'd have to trade up to get Tua, too.  Like you said, we can't reboot properly because we refuse to do it, we'll always be trapped having to trade up to get the guy we want, he's not going to fall to us.  So having said that, I don't want to take the risk of waiting for the perfect guy, its all subject to debate, the direct to this franchise is not.

 

I think though despite their best efforts to not tank in 2019, they might tank anyway.  Wouldn't it be ironic if they give up a lot to trade up this year and then tank anyway the following year.  That's what happened in 2013, they had the 2nd pick in the draft but didn't own it because of the RG3 trade.

 

I get your point is they'd be successful with Haskins.   That could be true.  But it doesn't feel slam dunk enough for me to risk giving up a ton of capital. 

 

I do agree with the premise of your point though is this team is poised to really hit the iceberg with fans next season if they don't so something to right the ship.  My only difference with your point is I want them to hit that iceberg and then rebuild the ship.

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As I read this thread and all of the draft capital involved to make such a move, One name keeps coming back to me. Ditka

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe the Raiders but doubt it.  You got Jax, Denver and Miami all supposedly clamoring for a QB.  I'd presume a bidding war ensues.    Miami is a little in trouble with their fan base, like our team they've been treading water for a long time, its a boring team.   Jax has hit Code Red levels as to the QB spot and are supposedly willing to trade Ramsey. 

3

 

Ya, Miami is interesting situation, for sure.  Having said that, they're another team that has won 11 games at least once since we have.  Jaguars are giving up home games to play internatinally like its nothing, but they were in AFC Championship game last year.  Denver just won a super bowl, three since last time we did.  Think you see where I'm going with this, I think Raiders would be crazy to waste any of those picks this year on a QB before making sure Carr was done (but that's just me).

 

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think though despite their best efforts to not tank in 2019, they might tank anyway.  Wouldn't it be ironic if they give up a lot to trade up this year and then tank anyway the following year.  That's what happened in 2013, they had the 2nd pickyou don't really tank in the draft but didn't own it because of the RG3 trade.

2

 

Certainly a difference between tanking a sucking anyway.  If Griffin actually played like the #2 overall pick in 2013, we don't suck like that, he was a bust, that's different.  I do get you point on the possible backfire of Haskins being a bust and us being screwed, though I go back to us being screwed anyway if we don't hurry up and find a franchise QB.  Think we're running out of time.

 

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get your point is they'd be successful with Haskins.   That could be true.  But it doesn't feel slam dunk enough for me to risk giving up a ton of capital. 

 

I do agree with the premise of your point though is this team is poised to really hit the iceberg with fans next season if they don't so something to right the ship.  My only difference with your point is I want them to hit that iceberg and then rebuild the ship.

 

That's a fair point to ask if he really is the choosen one.  I don't think its slam dunk either, I hope that's not the point people take from this.  I do believe he will be a great franchise QB, something we need and Giants could end up having that would be just perfect for them if it works.  

 

I'll tell you this about hitting the iceberg, you're hoping we rebuild the ship.  Our front office doesn't know what a ship is, I'm convinced of this now after bringing the band back after this cluster**** of a season.  I've never been this distrubed as a fan.  I had to turn on Snyder, I didn't think I would do that, but clocking is ticking and he can't read clocks.

Just now, bowhunter said:

As I read this thread and all of the draft capital involved to make such a move, One name keeps coming back to me. Ditka

 

Fair, but that was for a running back. That's a steal for a franchise QB right now.

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I believe this is the worst possible thing the team could do - which is exactly why they will  probably do it. They will trade the next 3 yr draft and a few players on a big maybe.

 

The better plan - and why they will  never do it - roll with Colt, Josh and bring in some competition - cheap competition. Use the draft to rebuild the Oline and get some depth for the secondary. Use FA to get a #1/2WR and an ILB or edge rusher - they can make some moves that will get them plenty of CAP. Ride out 2019 and look for a QB in 2020.

 

But there are too many jobs in jeopardy. So it's likely you will get your wish here. It is the ultimate swing for the fences - if it works, great. But based on general history it's got about a 10% chance of being successful.  If you go by Redskins history that number comes down to about 2%. But I can see Bruce lining up to get fleeced now.

 

 

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Too much for too risky a prospect. Haskins is a decent player, but is he really any better than Mahomes or Watson? Actually, I'd argue he's a worse bet than those guys just due to the lack of film. One year starters are inherently risky. And Mahomes and Watson were picked at 10 and 12. If you want to trade up that range, so be it. But I suspect Haskins will be overvalued based on the lack of good QB prospects.

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2 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

I believe this is the worst possible thing the team could do - which is exactly why they will  probably do it.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

While I like Haskins, I’m not convinced he’s a franchise savior level QB.  Particularly not here, right now.

 

However a blockbuster trade giving up assets for another QB is exactly what the doctor ordered for Bruce.  They have to do something big and sell yet another dream, buying everyone more time.

 

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7 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

If you go by Redskins history that number comes down to about 2%. But I can see Bruce lining up to get fleeced now.

 

 

Make no mistake about it, we're going to get fleeced, and I know that.  It will be worth it if this guy is legit, and I believe he is.  

 

You bring up patching some holes, I believe when you factor in how many injury prone players we have, we have far more holes then that. I want to blow up the entire offensive side of the ball, that's not something we can fix in a year or two, we'll be getting first round draft picks again by the time Alex signing bonus money stops killing us.  We are screwed right now, man, backed in a corner with a gun pointed at us right now.

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

However a blockbuster trade giving up assets for another QB is exactly what the doctor ordered for Bruce.  They have to do something big and sell yet another dream, buying everyone more time.

 

1

 

I'm not against doing this to get someone else, I just have my reasons for this guy.  I wanted to wait until the combine to start this thread, he will help or hurt my case considerably.  but the point remains, we absolutely need to go for broke to get a franchise QB whatever the costs ASAP.  The costs of not doing so are too great.

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1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Make no mistake about it, we're going to get fleeced, and I know that.  It will be worth it if this guy is legit, and I believe he is.  

 

You bring up patching some holes, I believe when you factor in how many injury prone players we have, we have far more holes then that. I want to blow up the entire offensive side of the ball, that's not something we can fix in a year or two, we'll be getting first round draft picks again by the time Alex signing bonus money stops killing us.  We are screwed right now, man, backed in a corner with a gun pointed at us right now.

 

I don't believe I mentioned filling holes. I did only talk about this offseason. I did not want to waste the space to put my entire plan - which is BTW to blow the whole ****ing thing apart. Those moves to get more CAP include moving on from Norman, renegotiating or trading Kerrigan and doing the same with T Williams among other things. But I want to get really radical. I just didn't list it all-as it will never, never happen.

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I say no, because I like another QB that we could get later in the draft, and not have to give up any draft picks in the process. I want the skins to draft Gardener Minshew. Im guessing he will go in rounds 2-4. He makes quick decisive decisions, gets the ball out fast, and has enough swagger for 2 franchises. Even if it takes a year to develop him in the pro style offense I think it would be well worth it down the road.   

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1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

I don't believe I mentioned filling holes. I did only talk about this offseason. I did not want to waste the space to put my entire plan - which is BTW to blow the whole ****ing thing apart. Those moves to get more CAP include moving on from Norman, renegotiating or trading Kerrigan and doing the same with T Williams among other things. But I want to get really radical. I just didn't list it all-as it will never, never happen.

 

I get it, we're on the same page about wanting to dismantle this team and it not happening.

 

 I took your comments as plugging holes because it came across like using our picks wisely to try and address individual weaknesses that we saw this year and will need more then one year to address.  That's the key, I just don't think any of that will matter if we don't have a QB, we'll have what we just had where we try hard into another mid-round pick and never be able to be in position to trade up for someone and it not costing us the farm.  

 

Let just do it now before more the fan base bails and doesn't come back.

Just now, skins2victory said:

I say no, because I like another QB that we could get later in the draft, and not have to give up any draft picks in the process. I want the skins to draft Gardener Minshew. Im guessing he will go in rounds 2-4. He makes quick decisive decisions, gets the ball out fast, and has enough swagger for 2 franchises. Even if it takes a year to develop him in the pro style offense I think it would be well worth it down the road.   

Question:  Does he play in a pro style offense now?

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33 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

As I read this thread and all of the draft capital involved to make such a move, One name keeps coming back to me. Ditka

It would take more than what Ditka gave us.

 

and the answer to this is no. If it's done it's a Dan Snyder commanded move in a desperate ploy to get fans interested again. And if that's the case then it's clear Danny Boy hasn't learned his lesson.

 

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Just now, PartyPosse said:

It would take more than what Ditka gave us.

 

and the answer to this is no. If it's done it's a Dan Snyder commanded move in a desperate ploy to get fans interested again. And if that's the case then it's clear Danny Boy hasn't learned his lesson.

 

 

I know, but the only reason this is flawed logic is I don't believe Danny Boy will learn his lesson until he does.  

 

We just had 4 QBs in one year, and brought back the guy who constructed the team that that happened to like it was nothing.  Danny may never learn his lesson, but with the right QB, we'll be more competitive then we are, maybe luck into a super bowl win instead of an embarrassing home playoff loss like our m.o. is now.

 

I don't expect anyone to agree with me on this one.  What I hope is that people get the sense of urgency I'm talking about and if they feel the same way want to go about it in a different manner.  I cannot condone going into next year with Colt.  I might not go to a game next year if we do, **** that, not after what I went through at the Eagles game.

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3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Question:  Does he play in a pro style offense now?

 

-No he is in the air raid. And yes, I understand your stance is to find someone to play this next year.

 

-But my stance, and the reason I say no to trading up is.... He may be able to play this year, maybe not.  But if not, I would rather give him a year to learn then mortgage a ton of future picks again. And the fact that I believe he will develop into a really good Q.B.

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It’s really hard for me to tell who from NCAA will translate well to the NFL, so from my untrained eye, his throwing motion to me, doesn’t look like it will translate.

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5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

And if that's the case then it's clear Danny Boy hasn't learned his lesson.

I think it’s safe to say he hasn’t learned his lesson, whether they splash for a QB or not.

 

After witnessing what he has this season alone from a fan apathy standpoint at FedEx to #FireBruceAllen trending on twitter, the only executive blood shed was that of a marketing team the fans actually liked.

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19 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Question:  Does he play in a pro style offense now?

No.

 

Walter Football has him drafted 6 round or later, not 2-3 round.

 

WashingtonState_logo.gif Gardner Minshew, QB, Washington State  
Height: 6-2. Weight: 220.  
Projected 40 Time: 4.83. 
Projected Round (2019): 6-FA. 

1/5/19: In his one year at Washington State, Minshew became a fan favorite, putting together a good season in Mike Leach's point-machine offense. After not playing much at East Carolina, Minshew transferred to the Cougars and benefited from Leach's system. Minshew completed 71 percent of his passes in 2018 for 4,779 yards with 38 touchdowns and nine interceptions. He has more of a backup skill set for the NFL, but he could help himself with a strong performance at the Senior Bowl

Read more: http://walterfootball.com/draft2019QB.php#ixzz5c4wcNYIt
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2019QB.php#gUpEiEvFW6FjvWpW.99

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I think the smarter move would be to focus more on the future with this draft.  Who knows, Haskins may lose his luster and fall in the draft.  It happened to Aaron Rodgers.  Towards the end of the season, he was projected to go #1 overall by some draft sites, then GB was able to get him in the middle of the 1st round.  

 

I think the Redskins would be better off waiting to see if someone they love falls to them, like Jonathan Allen.  Or, since this is a draft stacked with DL talent, and starved of QB talent, it may be better for them to trade out of the first round all together and add some mid round picks this year, and maybe some high picks next year.  If they suck this next season, they may get a better QB. If they don't suck next year, they would have more picks in the draft to move into position for a QB.  Or, maybe they hit on a mid round rookie QB this year that ends up exceeding expectations.  

 

The he risk you run giving up a bunch of premium picks to get a QB now is that, even if he turns out pretty good, it gets a lot harder to add much talent to play with him.

 

 

 

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Remember in 2002 when the Redskins tried but thankfully failed to trade up to draft....Joey Harrington. Instead we had to be satisfied with trading back and wasting a first on Ramsey.

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52 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

 

Remember in 2002 when the Redskins tried but thankfully failed to trade up to draft....Joey Harrington. Instead we had to be satisfied with trading back and wasting a first on Ramsey.

 

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Worst case scenario is we spend three 1st plus and Haskins is a bust.  By the time we have another 1st to rebuild with Trent and Kerrigan are gone.  The team would be almost entirely devoid of talent save Allen/Payne,  and maybe Scherff and Guice.  

 

Oh wait.  That's pretty much where we are anyway.  The apathy has pushed me in this direction but really who does care?  I could spend an entire season hoping we suck bad enough without a legit tank for Tua campaign and then be even more demoralized when its all for nothing when we are outbid for Tua.  Then do it all over again and get outbid for Trevor Lawrence too.

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