Renegade7

Trade up to draft Haskins???

Trade up to draft Haskins???  

174 members have voted

  1. 1. Trade up to draft Haskins???

    • Yes
    • No
    • Too Early
    • I don't know
    • I'll be honest, I don't care right now, but I might if this works


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I don't trust this organization to order lunch properly, so we are a far way from moving up in the draft and picking the right player. 

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Something the trade up people aren't acknowledging is the Cap situation for the Redskins. Trading up for Haskins is acting on the assumption that Smith is done (Which I think as well) but then if Smith is done we are crippled by his contract which means we are hamstrung for building a competitor for 2-3 years and that's if you don't trade up. If you do trade up change the timeline to build a competitor to 4-6 years at which point the team will have given up on Haskins - so just rinse and repeat at that point.

Edited by nonniey
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We need ... at a minimum ... major upgrades at ...

Left Guard

O-Line Depth

Middle Linebacker (I suppose Foster addresses this but what's his status)

Both Safeties

Right (Weakside) Edge Rusher

Speed Receiver

Possession/Clutch Receiver

TE (injuries are too much)

 

we need to consider improving some mediocre to average positions ...

Slot Receiver

Quarterback

Cornerback

 

the lesson learned from the Griffin Trade is no single player will ever be as good as 3 likely long term starters

the lesson learned from the Hogs/Rypien is an average QB is an all-Pro behind a strong O-Line

Please don't trade up for a QB ... or waste even one high pick on a QB until there's a decent O-Line and some decent receivers on the roster

 

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I think it's fair to say if management is behind this move it will backfire. 

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1 hour ago, nonniey said:

Something the trade up people aren't acknowledging is the Cap situation for the Redskins. Trading up for Haskins is acting on the assumption that Smith is done (Which I think as well) but then if Smith is done we are crippled by his contract which means we are hamstrung for building a competitor for 2-3 years and that's if you don't trade up. If you do trade up change the timeline to build a competitor to 4-6 years at which point the team will have given up on Haskins - so just rinse and repeat at that point.

 

I'm not a fan of genetalizations, especially when combined with misunderstandings and assumptions.  I've already said to cut Alex after March 5th so it's not all up front or just floating around hurting our cap with his full contract either. 

 

We are not 4-6 years out if we went 7-9 with 20+ players on IR and 4 different QBs.  Both ways of looking at this are opinions, not facts.  That doesn't mean we're a QB away, that's not the point, the point of the thread is we need a QB and we don't have one.  The longer we go without one the more damage is done to this franchise in every aspect imaginable.

 

And if this guy is legit as people says we aren't going to ruin him.  Anyone saying they don't trust Bruce to pick a QB, I don't care, I trust Haskins more then I trust Bruce, this isn't about giving Bruce the chance to pick any QB he wants, I'm talking about trading up for Haskins specifically, which rumors are other teams are thinking about as well. 

 

The closer we get the more we may need to strike first to avoid a bidding war.

 

 

Edited by Renegade7
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15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

.....

We are not 4-6 years out if we went 7-9 with 20+ players on IR and 4 different QBs.  Both ways of looking at this are opinions, not facts.  That doesn't mean we're a QB away, that's lot the point, the point of the thread is we need a QB and we don't have one.  The longer we go without one the more damage is done to this franchise in every aspect imaginable.......

 

 

We went 1-7 once we lost our QB and major pieces to the OLine.  Smith's contract will cripple the ability to address the roster through free agency (both acquiring new or retaining our own) and a trade up will cripple the ability to address the roster through the draft. We'd be back where we were in 2013, and to top it off Haskins isn't the prospect RG3 was.  So yes a trade-up would put us out at least to 4-6 years imo (And likely longer as the patience of this team is not one of it's virtues - Haskins would be gone and a new QB would be needed - rinse and repeat).

Edited by nonniey

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Since hell no wasn't an option, I had to vote just No.  The last thing we need to do is give up more future 1st round draft picks that need to be used to fill the multiple holes we already have.  Anyone that thinks we "have to do this" needs to remember that we already did that song and dance back in 2012 and it only yielded one division win.  And it cost us the chance to draft legit studs the next two drafts.  

 

Back in 2012, I supported "having to do what it took to move up and draft a QB", it failed miserably.  And it most likely would fail again.  Look at our O-line, Trent is starting to get injured more often, we lost two other starters due to injury.  We flat out cut a pro-bowl safety without trying to even wait and see if we could get some compensation for him.  We need linebackers, defensive backs, guards, etc.

 

And can anyone of the 15 people that voted for this actually sit there with a straight face and say they would trust Bruce to pull something like off and it actually work in our favor?  That he would nail FA and 2nd/3rd round picks and find stud talent in the years where we don't have the first round picks we would give up to move up and draft a QB this year?

 

I'd rather go into 2019 with Colt and Josh Johnson at QB (assuming Alex Smith doesn't retire and wont be playing anytime soon next season) and continue to try to fill other areas of need.  

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14 minutes ago, nonniey said:

We went 1-7 once we lost our QB and major pieces to the OLine.  Smith's contract will cripple the ability to address the roster through free agency (both acquiring new or retaining our own) and a trade up will cripple the ability to address the roster through the draft.

 

 

If our roster was really that hopeless we wouldnt of started 6-3, and that was an inept Alex Smith.  This is on the assumption we hit on the picks we draft, there's no promise of that.  This team was still grinding after QBs started going down, is it really out the question to suggest we would not of finished 1-7 if we just got the same QB, or even had a good one?

 

14 minutes ago, nonniey said:

We'd be back where we were in 2013, and to top it off Haskins isn't the prospect RG3 was.  So yes a trade-up would put us out at least to 4-6 years imo (And likely longer as the patience of this team is not one of it's virtues - Haskins would be gone and a new QB would be needed - rinse and repeat).

 

Hes already a better prospect then Griffin was because Griffin didn't have a route tree in college while Haskins was running a pro style offense.  Snyder showed patience with Jason Campbell and had to be ripped off Griffins cold, dead body.  If he's half as good as people think he is then he's better then both if them combined.

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29 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

Since hell no wasn't an option, I had to vote just No.  The last thing we need to do is give up more future 1st round draft picks that need to be used to fill the multiple holes we already have.  Anyone that thinks we "have to do this" needs to remember that we already did that song and dance back in 2012 and it only yielded one division win.  And it cost us the chance to draft legit studs the next two drafts.  

 

Back in 2012, I supported "having to do what it took to move up and draft a QB", it failed miserably.  And it most likely would fail again.  Look at our O-line, Trent is starting to get injured more often, we lost two other starters due to injury.  We flat out cut a pro-bowl safety without trying to even wait and see if we could get some compensation for him.  We need linebackers, defensive backs, guards, etc.

 

Yall need to let that Griffin **** go. In all seriousness, I get we got burned,  but wholly crap this guy is NOT Robert Griffin.  We would not be having this conversation if Griffin Wasn't a bust, we would say it was a lot but it was worth it.  Franchise saving QBs are worth that.

 

Quote

And can anyone of the 15 people that voted for this actually sit there with a straight face and say they would trust Bruce to pull something like off and it actually work in our favor?  That he would nail FA and 2nd/3rd round picks and find stud talent in the years where we don't have the first round picks we would give up to move up and draft a QB this year?

 

I'd rather go into 2019 with Colt and Josh Johnson at QB (assuming Alex Smith doesn't retire and wont be playing anytime soon next season) and continue to try to fill other areas of need.  

 

This is getting ridiculous, if Haskins ends up being a legit franchise QB, that absolutely would be in our favor. This is not about any other QB then Haskins.

 

I tell what I don't trust Bruce with:  multiple picks knowing he's going to get guys with injury histories to get steals and an excuse when they get hurt and we start losing again.  He's not going to stop that by the way, but I live in the area and the damage being down to this fan base is going to be borderline irrepairable if we don't get a young elite franchise QB that we can say this is what we are building around. 

 

We aren't even selling jerseys, man, there are games in DC area where more people watch the Cowboys instead.  Look at this list, y'all, we supposed to be a flagship franchise in one of the larger markets in the cku try and we don't have a single player in the top 50 of merchandise sales

 

https://www.nflpa.com/players/fy19-q1-top50-player-sales-list

 

I live in the area, there's a lot more at stake here then a couple draft picks we might screw up as well.  We cant keep saying to get more picks if Bruce either drafts. Let's or guys that keep getting hurt, because that's going to screw us even more then what I'm talking about.

Edited by Renegade7
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No. Way too many holes to fill. We need all the draft picks we can get. Would rather draft a QB at 15, whoever that may be. I'm guessing Grier or Lock.

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13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

If our roster was really that hopeless we wouldnt of started 6-3, and that was an inept Alex Smith.  This is on the assumption we hit on the picks we draft, there's no promise of that.  This team was still grinding after QBs started going down, is it really out the question to suggest we would not of finished 1-7 if we just got the same QB, or even had a good one?

 

 

Hes already a better prospect then Griffin was because Griffin didn't have a route tree in college while Haskins was running a pro style offense.  Snyder showed patience with Jason Campbell and had to be ripped off Griffins cold, dead body.  If he's half as good as people think he is then he's better then both if them combined.

Who are these people you keep referring to that think Haskins is so good? At the end of the season Herbert was the consensus pick for being the top ranked QB with Haskins close behind. Those two were the only two thought to be possibly worthy of the 1st round. Mock drafts at the time had them going between 13-40. (Unlike RG3 where he was going top 5 at the end of his season so yes unlike Haskins he was considered a blue chip prospect).  Yes QBs climb because teams reach for them (and sometimes it pays off) - I'd rather take my chances on a prospect that was already at the top than a post season climber.  Next seasons draft already has 4 Qbs that will be available that are better prospects than Haskins so if you are going to mortgage your future do it for a blue chip prospect next year. It would be astronomically stupid for the Redskins to mortgage their future (again) to move up and draft a non blue chip prospect - during one of the weakest drafts for QB in recent memory.

Just now, abdcskins said:

No. Way too many holes to fill. We need all the draft picks we can get. Would rather draft a QB at 15, whoever that may be. I'm guessing Grier or Lock.

No to those two as well at 15 - yes they have potential (Lock in particular)  but would be massive reaches for the 1st round.

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6 minutes ago, nonniey said:

No to those two as well at 15 - yes they have potential (Lock in particular)  but would be massive reaches for the 1st round.

 

As long as we draft a QB in the first three rounds I'll be fine. I just can't see us going into next season with McCoy/Johnson as our quarterbacks. We need someone to develop. Not drafting a QB is basically conceding next year, and I don't like that approach. I don't like waiting a year to draft a QB when it is such a critical piece to our team. Who says we will be in a great position next year to draft one?

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8 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Who are these people you keep referring to that think Haskins is so good? At the end of the season Herbert was the consensus pick for being the top ranked QB with Haskins close behind. 

 

I've posted a couple links about people thinking he's going to be that good in this thread.  I don't expect everyone to go through whole thread, but this is already starting to feel like a time loop, mostly because a lot of y'all just don't want to do it.  It doesn't matter what I say or link I post, and I get that.  Jus let me know if you read the rest of the thread or not before we keep going on this, I don't want to feel like I'm ignoring anyone anymore then I want to keep repeating myself.  

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1 hour ago, Brokenstriker said:

 

the lesson learned from the Griffin Trade is no single player will ever be as good as 3 likely long term starters

the lesson learned from the Hogs/Rypien is an average QB is an all-Pro behind a strong O-Line

Please don't trade up for a QB ... or waste even one high pick on a QB until there's a decent O-Line and some decent receivers on the roster

 

 

Patriots didn't draft someone in the first round in three of the last six drafts.  This isn't the 1980s anymore, its a league dominated by QBs, and even model franchises don't value first rounders the way people in this thread do once they have one an elite one. They'll reach, they'll bust, they'll even trade them away completely.

 

You have no idea how bad I want to do what your talking about, but we cant, we don't have time to try and do that.  We could try that and be wrong and still not have a QB, then what?

Edited by Renegade7

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10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Patriots didn't draft someone in the first round in three of the last six drafts.  This isn't the 1980s anymore, its a league dominated by QBs, and even model franchises don't value first rounders the way people in this thread do once they have one an elite one. They'll reach, they'll bust, they'll even trade them away completely.

 

You have no idea how bad I want to do what your talking about, but we cant, we don't have time to try and do that.  We could try that and be wrong and still not have a QB, then what?

 

I get what you are trying to say but that NE stat is a bit misleading. 

 

2017 - They did trade their 1st rd pick for Brandon Cooks. But they also did some work making other trades to get 2 1st rd picks for this yr. 

2016 - Their 1st rd pick was forfeited - not exactly their choice. 

2013 - The traded the 29th pick  - barely in the 1st rd, for MN 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 7th rd selections. Kind of hard to turn that down. 

 

Not sure I would say that teams do not value #1 picks. People value them plenty. And he higher they are the more value they have. NE is mostly drafting near or at the bottom. 

 

I also totally disagree that we can't be patient. In fact I see it completely the opposite. I do not think we can afford NOT to be patient. We will end up with a total reach/bust and still have nothing to build with. I do not want them to draft any QB this yr unless it's a late rd practice squad guy - or maybe a mid rd developmental guy. 

 

I want Trent Williams replacement in the 1st rd. They will not do that because they somehow think Geron Christian is that guy - he is not. Maybe he develops into a RT - if he stays healthy. But i want the best OT in the draft (right now I think the predictions are Jonah Williams - Bama guy! or Greg Little from Ole'Miss.) Then go heavy O or D line the next 2 rds unless someone just falls in your lap. 

 

You can drop a lot of contracts, including either trading or restructuring T Williams and Kerrigan. Trade Thompson. Let Reed and Norman both go. I might even let Preston Smith go too. No big contract for him. Let him get it somewhere else. Then make an injury settlement with Alex and get him off the books starting next yr, or at least close to it. 

 

Then you can start fresh in 2020. Like it or not, next year is already gone. Why not just embrace it and build for the long term future. The problem with this team is they are always looking 6 to 12 months out. No concept of how to plan for the future. 

 

 

 

 

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@goskins10 I'm heading out, but want to be clear I never said teams don't value first round picks.  You make some points I agree and disagree with.

 

I notice your profile says you live in Atlanta, you still live down there?  How many of y'all saying we shouldn't do this don't live in the area?  Y'all might be used to rarely seeing redskins fans, I'm not, something is seriously wrong here, and it's not getting better, its getting worse.

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I said no earlier but please permit me to change the oh hell no, F no, are you out of your mind? no way in hell, over my dead body, no fing way! that is a stupid idea don't ever bring that idea up again, are you just stupid? anything but that, why did you even make me think about this crazy dumbass idea for, oh just shoot me know I can't take it anymore, this again?  you dumb F you want to try this again and expect a different outcome? Get your head out of your ass!

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25 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

I said no earlier but please permit me to change the oh hell no, F no, are you out of your mind? no way in hell, over my dead body, no fing way! that is a stupid idea don't ever bring that idea up again, are you just stupid? anything but that, why did you even make me think about this crazy dumbass idea for, oh just shoot me know I can't take it anymore, this again?  you dumb F you want to try this again and expect a different outcome? Get your head out of your ass!

 

I'm not talking to y'all like that, why you think it's okay talking to me like that?

Edited by Renegade7

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42 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@goskins10 I'm heading out, but want to be clear I never said teams don't value first round picks.  You make some points I agree and disagree with.

 

I notice your profile says you live in Atlanta, you still live down there?  How many of y'all saying we shouldn't do this don't live in the area?  Y'all might be used to rarely seeing redskins fans, I'm not, something is seriously wrong here, and it's not getting better, its getting worse.

 

Really not sure what this has to do with anything. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but the idea that just because I (or others) am not there 100% of the time I have no idea of what's going on is honestly pretty insulting. Maybe this had some validity 30 or 40 yrs ago. With today's social media and increased mobility, you just do not have to be somewhere to understand what's going on. 

 

As for the original comment - I was not implying that you said teams didn't value them at all - but you did say they didn't value them that much. I disagree with that. And the example you provided was probably not the best since one of the years they had to forfeit their pick then this year they made trades to get an extra picks. 

 

Honestly I get it. As I stated at the start of my response. I get what you are saying. I am not one who wants to tank. I want them to try every game. But to me, spending major resources for a QB is like buying a new engine for your car when the rest of he drive train is bad. Yea, you need the engine to go anywhere. But with a bad drive train you will only go so far.

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41 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm not talking to y'all like that, why you think it's okay talking to me like that?

 

Well, I didn't intend it to be a response to an individual but clearly, I didn't think it through since you suggested the idea so I apologize.  I don't have an opinion about Haskins, I only saw him play 1 game and he looked okay.  My problem is with the Skins who I don't trust to evaluate properly.

 

If they spent several 1st round draft choices again to trade up for a QB I am positive the guy would suck, absolutely certain.  One final thought, if you are an Ohio State fan and like Haskins why would you want the poor kid messed up like this?  Now that I think about it why would you want any promising young man messed up by the Redskins?  I take back my apology it is cruel and insensitive for you to wish this fate on young Haskins, I'm disgusted by you.  Go sit in the corner and think about how messed up this is and don't get up until you've seen the light.....

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Absolutely this is a great idea.  After all I fully trust this group to evaluate the talent of a 1st round quarterback and project he will be the next star in the NFL and tell us why we should bet the farm to get him.  What's that you say?  They are the same crowd for the most part that drafted and managed RG3?  Oh yea, I guess you are right.  Never mind.

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I've got mixed feelings about Haskins. 

 

Essentially, he's hitting the draft after only one real season as a starting QB.  I've seen a lot of college QBs look great their first season and then come back to earth in their subsequent seasons.  Haskins had a great season, no doubt,and that's a big plus... Because you can see he has the chops to be a good QB in a west coast system.  6'3" and 215 lbs isn't bad size, and he's inclined to be a pocket passer like Gruden would like his QBs to be.

 

But 2019 isn't yielding a  bumper crop of QBs, as was the case in previous years ---so we're probably talking about a solid, but necessarily elite, QB; one who hasn't faced NFL level defenses (or even top-tier SEC level defenses!) 

 

So, to me, the real question is not trading up for him, but what the Skins might do if he's available when they pick.  (I tend to think Haskins could be available, because most of the draft sites had him pegged between the 15th to 40th pick.)  But I think he goes in the first round, because QBs tend to rise as the draft nears. [I see Haskins has already risen to 6th in Walters draft board.]

 

Mainly, I ask myself, how many truly great QBs have come out of Ohio State?  Is Haskins going to be the exception?  If so, could he really flourish to his full potential of NFL QB, as a Washington Redskin? 

Edited by Wyvern
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