Trade up to draft Haskins???

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

Trade up for Haskins 🤣🤣🤣 Its such a bad idea i could actually see Doug Williams talking Snyder into doing this

 

 

 Taking a gamble on Kyler Murray at the 15th spot if no stud O lineman are available, yeah i could get behind that, but trading up for Haskins ? 😆 

[Koolblue13]

This could be an onion article. Team without talent, trades away more draft picks commonly used to acquire talent.

 

Or team still hurting for trading away multiple draft picks for frail mobile QB trades away draft picks for frail mobile QB.

 

Holy crap what an awful idea. 

[SkinsRx]

On 1/10/2019 at 11:07 PM, Anselmheifer said:

We don't need to pick a coach first and let that coach pick his QB. That's ridiculous. Did the Rams wait to draft Goff? Did Green Bay have the same coach that drafted Aaron Rogers when he started to play? Baker Mayfield will have a different coach next year. Sam Darnold will have a different coach. You grab a great QB whenever you have a chance to grab one and by whatever means. 

We already tried that once with RG3.  RG3 looked brilliant coming out of college and if he was still here in DC and performing at a high level, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.  It's a chicken/egg debate, so I'm not going to say that it's imperative to hire a coach first and then have him choose his QB, but from a development standpoint, don't you think a young QB would have a greater chance to become successful if he were in one system as opposed to 2 or 3 early in his career?
 

On 1/10/2019 at 11:07 PM, Anselmheifer said:

Also, to suggest that a QB like Mahomes wouldn't be good here is a ridiculous presumption. Sure, when the whole OL went down, it would have been tough sledding, and there was no Tyreek Hill on our roster. He wouldn't have put up 50 touchdowns. But, he would have been infinitely better than Alex Smith.

Never said he wouldn't have been good here, but said that he would not have put up the same numbers here in the 2018 season as he did this season in KC.  But yeah, I agree, he would have been much better than Smith.

 

On 1/10/2019 at 11:07 PM, Anselmheifer said:

Can anyone that says you have to build a roster before you draft a QB find a quote from any personnel man, ever, that supports that idea? It's an idea born entirely out of a few teams recently lucking into QB's, or being ahead of the rest of the league in assessing college QB talent, in the case of Mahomes and Deshaun Watson. Do we have the kind of management team that you guys trust to be so forward thinking?

Can't find you a quote, but just from seeing how recent Superbowl teams have been built, I would argue that, yes, there are NFL personnel guys that would support the idea of building a roster first before drafting a QB.  To do it the other way around, you're playing with a ticking time bomb.  The moment you draft a QB, the clock starts ticking. Building a solid roster takes time.  Once your QB is off his rookie contract, it'll hinder the teams financial ability to make as many moves as they would like.

 

" - 1 out of the last 12 Super Bowl winning quarterbacks was paid more than 12% of the salary cap (8.3% of QBs).

•   - 8 out of 48 starting quarterbacks in the championship games were paid more than 12% of the salary cap (16.7%).
•   - 17 or 20 Super Bowl winning quarterbacks were in their 7th year or less with their team when the won (85%).
•  

It would appear that the time to capitalize is early in the career of the quarterback before he’s earned the big pay day."

 

http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/front-office/2018/05/29/does-a-high-salary-veteran-qb-hurt-your-super-bowl-chances/

 

All indications point to Dwayne Haskins not being available at our pick.  And yes, our FO is not great.  I don't trust them in trying to find a franchise QB in a weak draft class, but they've been OK at selecting non-QB players in recent memory.  So wouldn't it make sense to continue to build your roster in this years draft when the QB class is reportedly not that great and then look to draft a QB in next years draft when you'll have a better selection to choose from?

 

On 1/10/2019 at 11:07 PM, Anselmheifer said:

Also, we are extremely likely to take a QB in the first this year, so those that won't be happy about that ought to dig in and prepare to be disappointed. There have already been rumblings that that is our intention and Doug Williams was personally scouting Daniel Jones. Talk about a catastrophic pick. He's the next Jason Campbell. 

Anyway, if Haskins is going to be great, then it would be worth it to trade up. If he isn't, obviously, it wouldn't. I think it's funny how little of the conversation in this thread is actually about Haskins as a prospect. 

 

That's the main issue.  No one here has a crystal ball.  No one knows IF Haskins is going to be great.  I think if we were fans of a different team and having this discussion it wouldn't feel like such a bad decision in the making.  But the fact that the RG3 trade didn't work out well for us coupled with the fact that we have no legit GM in our FO, makes me believe trading the farm for a QB makes no sense in our current situation.  Now if Haskins is still available when we pick, then it becomes a no brainer.

 

[Renegade7]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

This could be an onion article. Team without talent, trades away more draft picks commonly used to acquire talent.

 

Or team still hurting for trading away multiple draft picks for frail mobile QB trades away draft picks for frail mobile QB.

 

Holy crap what an awful idea. 

 

What about Haskins makes you think he's frail?  Let's not just throw stuff out there because we disagree or agree with this move.  I can't confirm he's ever missed a game to injury or had had knee surgery in college like Griffin did, can you?

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

What about Haskins makes you think he's frail?  Let's not just throw stuff out there because we disagree or agree with this move.  I can't confirm he's ever missed a game to injury or had had knee surgery in college like Griffin did, can you?

No, but an undersized QB that is quick to leave the pocket is gonna get crushed.

 

Doesn't even matter. We have no talent on offense. Zero. Maybe half our defensive players are good.

 

If we traded our first away this year for more picks, I'd be fully behind it.

[volsmet]

Lock is the QB you want in the class.

 

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

If we traded our first away this year for more picks, I'd be fully behind it.

 

Wise man.

On 1/8/2019 at 9:11 PM, Renegade7 said:

@Skinsinparadise I don't know if you read my whole post, but I don't believe we have time to play around with this anymore.  

 

 

 

 

[joeken24]

No trade ups. No first round QB. No one hit wonders.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

No, but an undersized QB that is quick to leave the pocket is gonna get crushed.

 

Have you read anything about this guy or watched him play? Is 6'3, 213 really undersized today, and how much does that matter when he's bigger then Wilson and Brees who have both won super bowls recently?

 

@volsmet if you want to have an actual discussion instead of slapstick comedy, im open to it.

[Koolblue13]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Have you read anything about this guy or watched him play? Is 6'3, 213 really undersized today, and how much does that matter when he's bigger then Wilson and Brees who have both won super bowls recently?

@volsmet if you want to have an actual discussion instead of slapstick comedy, im open to it.

This idea absolutely deserves slapstick comedy. You want another year with one starting offensive lineman and no receivers? A secondary that gets routinely embarrassed? We're just now finally recovering from the RG3 trade and you wanna trade away a bucket of picks again? Gtfo with that. Why did I even log back in here. 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

This idea absolutely deserves slapstick comedy. You want another year with one starting offensive lineman and no receivers? A secondary that gets routinely embarrassed? We're just now finally recovering from the RG3 trade and you wanna trade away a bucket of picks again? Gtfo with that. Why did I even log back in here. 

 

Yes, because people are going to stop going to the games and none of what your talking about will matter without a franchise QB.  I disagree on only having one starting olinemen, i think we have 3-4 and need a 5th plus better, younger depth in case any of them get hurt.  But if you don't want to have this convo, don't keep coming in here being disrespectful.

[SprintBomb]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Yes, because people are going to stop going to the games... 

We've been drafting and signing free agents for the purpose of putting butts in the seats for the last 20 years. What have we gotten out of that? Organized, well run teams that have long term thought out plans don't do that. 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, SprintBomb said:

We've been drafting and signing free agents for the purpose of putting butts in the seats for the last 20 years. What have we gotten out of that? Organized, well run teams that have long term thought out plans don't do that. 

1

 

Yes, they do, but not in the context you are implying.  

 

Every franchise knows if they don't win people won't want to come to watch them lose.  But if our fans are dropping off the season ticket waiting list left and right out of disgust, that's a different problem then what most teams are going through.  

 

You know what else we haven't done in 20 years? Have an elite, franchise QB.  That will buy us time to help rebuild the fan base.  I keep saying this is bigger then this year and this current team, but I don't think its getting through to some of ya'll.  We need to watch his stock and consider it, he's from New Jersey, but he grew up in Maryland, this would be perfect if it works, it will make up for whatever picks we lose to do this.

[@DCGoldPants]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Yes, because people are going to stop going to the games and none of what your talking about will matter without a franchise QB.  I disagree on only having one starting olinemen, i think we have 3-4 and need a 5th plus better, younger depth in case any of them get hurt.  But if you don't want to have this convo, don't keep coming in here being disrespectful.

 

Moses had a bad year. He's always hobbled. Trent will always miss games. We don't know how Scherff will heal. LG was never really upgraded and C is still a maybe. 

 

I could argue taking OL in any of the first 3 rounds. Even 2 out of those 3 rounds. 

 

No on trading up for Haskins or anybody. This roster needs youth, health, depth. 

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

Moses had a bad year. He's always hobbled. Trent will always miss games. We don't know how Scherff will heal. LG was never really upgraded and C is still a maybe. 

 

I could argue taking OL in any of the first 3 rounds. Even 2 out of those 3 rounds. 

 

No on trading up for Haskins or anybody. This roster needs youth, health, depth. 

 

 

Moses, Trent, Scherff and Roullier can all start and will continue you to if they stay healthy.  We can't get all their replacements in one year even if we wanted to, that's just not how it works.  I would say whatever our next pick after Haskins should be oline and we need to look at young backups in free agency instead of Nseke. But I'm stunned you would say something like we need youth on the team when all our QBs on the roster are 32 or older.  

 

Are ya'll done playing "I don't want to do this no matter what you say" Bingo, yet? 

[SprintBomb]

37 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Yes, they do, but not in the context you are implying.  

 

Every franchise knows if they don't win people won't want to come to watch them lose.  But if our fans are dropping off the season ticket waiting list left and right out of disgust, that's a different problem then what most teams are going through.  

 

You know what else we haven't done in 20 years? Have an elite, franchise QB.  That will buy us time to help rebuild the fan base.  I keep saying this is bigger then this year and this current team, but I don't think its getting through to some of ya'll.  We need to watch his stock and consider it, he's from New Jersey, but he grew up in Maryland, this would be perfect if it works, it will make up for whatever picks we lose to do this.

Our roster is poor. Our front office is unorganized. Our coaching staff is fed up and does not want to be here. I don't care if we traded up to draft Jesus himself. It wouldn't work. Our team is not prepared to support a rookie QB. Our roster can't give the support needed. Our coaches don't want to be here and our owner has no patience. Trading up is the worst move we can make. You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are in the extreme minority on this one. 

[TheShredder]

On 1/9/2019 at 10:29 AM, skins2victory said:

I say no, because I like another QB that we could get later in the draft, and not have to give up any draft picks in the process. I want the skins to draft Gardener Minshew. Im guessing he will go in rounds 2-4. He makes quick decisive decisions, gets the ball out fast, and has enough swagger for 2 franchises. Even if it takes a year to develop him in the pro style offense I think it would be well worth it down the road.   

 

[TheShredder]

16 minutes ago, SprintBomb said:

Our roster is poor. Our front office is unorganized. Our coaching staff is fed up and does not want to be here. I don't care if we traded up to draft Jesus himself. It wouldn't work. Our team is not prepared to support a rookie QB. Our roster can't give the support needed. Our coaches don't want to be here and our owner has no patience. Trading up is the worst move we can make. You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are in the extreme minority on this one. 

Can't disagree with this one bit.  

I'd love to see them cut all the fat vet contracts that underperformed, then start training camp with all positions open for competition.  Let the best players play.  I don't care if they field all rookies.  

[SprintBomb]

6 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

 

I'm down with this 

[Renegade7]

27 minutes ago, SprintBomb said:

Our roster is poor. Our front office is unorganized. Our coaching staff is fed up and does not want to be here. I don't care if we traded up to draft Jesus himself. It wouldn't work. Our team is not prepared to support a rookie QB. Our roster can't give the support needed. Our coaches don't want to be here and our owner has no patience. Trading up is the worst move we can make. You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are in the extreme minority on this one. 

 

 

For now.  

 

And everything you said I actually agree with, but believe only way to save our situation is with a young, dynamic rookie QB.  If we shouldn't even try, then we should just fold as a franchise, because trying to play whackamole with rest if the roster with a blindfold on isn't working either.  I keep trying to come back to this point, there aren't many ways for us to be successful given how our front office is set up, this may be the only way to do it.

6 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Can't disagree with this one bit.  

I'd love to see them cut all the fat vet contracts that underperformed, then start training camp with all positions open for competition.  Let the best players play.  I don't care if they field all rookies.  

And you will get the Eagles like takeover at every home game next season as well.  Worth it? I'd only be open to this if Haskins was QB, because we do need to do that, but no one will buy us trying to turn this around with someone like JJ at QB.

[TheShredder]

2 minutes ago, SprintBomb said:

I'm down with this 

Any version of a draft where you take the best player available and don't reach should be the correct format.  No reason to reach for a QB as they don't pan out most the time. You need a guy like Gardner Minshew to be drafted in an appropriate draft position, then go through the process of development.  The uniqueness of the situation with the Skins can afford you to bring McCoy, Johnson, Minshew, and an undrafted QB to camp (with Alex on IR).  Let them play it out and see what happens through cuts.  Possibilities are positive that perhaps you figure out whether you'd start the year with McCoy or Johnson, with Minshew developing.  Then when McCoy gets hurt or your team isn't competitive then play Minshew early and often.  I truly don't believe Alex Smith will ever play football again. In this sort of scenario you'd get Minshew experience, probably be in position to get a higher draft pick in 2020.  Far more upside to this type of scenario then pretending to be something. 

10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

And you will get the Eagles like takeover at every home game next season as well.  Worth it? I'd only be open to this if Haskins was QB, because we do need to do that, but no one will buy us trying to turn this around with someone like JJ at QB.

That's likely the situation regardless given all things current in consideration.  I don't see anyway the dysfunction is being addressed, rather perpetuated as they double down with Allen.  This is the Skins definition of insanity as they do the exact same thing with any expectation of change. 

[SprintBomb]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

For now.  

 

And everything you said I actually agree with, but believe only way to save our situation is with a young, dynamic rookie QB.  If we shouldn't even try, then we should just fold as a franchise, because trying to play whackamole with rest if the roster with a blindfold on isn't working either.  I keep trying to come back to this point, there aren't many ways for us to be successful given how our front office is set up, this may be the only way to do it.

And you will get the Eagles like takeover at every home game next season as well.  Worth it? I'd only be open to this if Haskins was QB, because we do need to do that, but no one will buy us trying to turn this around with someone like JJ at QB.

The only way to "save our situation" is to do things the right way. If we were a QB away from making a major Super Bowl push then sure I'm all for it. We aren't. It wouldn't be fair to trade those picks for a kid and put all that pressure on him to produce and not have a solid team around him. Building an NFL team is a marathon, not a sprint. 

[Renegade7]

22 minutes ago, SprintBomb said:

The only way to "save our situation" is to do things the right way. If we were a QB away from making a major Super Bowl push then sure I'm all for it. We aren't. It wouldn't be fair to trade those picks for a kid and put all that pressure on him to produce and not have a solid team around him. Building an NFL team is a marathon, not a sprint. 

Franchises do that all the time when they are doing a rebuild.  We're somewhere in the middle, we are not a super bowl contender, but we were still 7-9 with 25 people on IR.  

 

This team coulda sunk into the playoffs with Alex playing 16 games even if it was subpar, what could've been if we at least kept the same QB all year?  We started two guys that were sitting at home middle of the season.  I've said before we should nuke the entire offensive side of the ball, but they won't do it, same way they won't fire Jay or Bruce.

 

Think about it, we don't trust Bruce with anything, but we trust him with multiple picks to try in fill in all the holes on this team?  It's not going to happen, that's just as much of a pipe dream as ya'll are saying my idea is.  Flat out, this guy is terrible, at least if we have a QB this team will be in the conversation every year versus a laughing stock waiting to happen (if aren't one already in August).  You can't hit everything or everywhere, but you won't stand a chance in this league if you don't hit at QB.  You don't stand a chance.

28 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

That's likely the situation regardless given all things current in consideration.  I don't see anyway the dysfunction is being addressed, rather perpetuated as they double down with Allen.  This is the Skins definition of insanity as they do the exact same thing with any expectation of change. 

1

 

Absolutely disagree with this.  One of the reasons I don't see a lot of redskins jerseys in the area is we never have a franchise QB.  I've given a couple examples of bad franchises that hit on QB and all the sudden everyone looked like a "genius".  That's what an elite QB does for your franchise, that's what one would do for us.

 

Edit: The only reason we look at the Griffin trade as a total mistake is because he was a bust.  If he was taking us to the playoffs every year with an MVP or a Super Bowl win, this is a completely different conversation.  We picked the wrong guy, that happens, I don't believe this guy is the wrong one.  More people are starting to agree with that by the way, even if a lot of people in here don't, and its going to get louder as we get closer to the combine.

[SprintBomb]

29 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Franchises do that all the time when they are doing a rebuild.  We're somewhere in the middle, we are not a super bowl contender, but we were still 7-9 with 25 people on IR.  

 

This team coulda sunk into the playoffs with Alex playing 16 games even if it was subpar, what could've been if we at least kept the same QB all year?  We started two guys that were sitting at home middle of the season.  I've said before we should nuke the entire offensive side of the ball, but they won't do it, same way they won't fire Jay or Bruce.

 

Think about it, we don't trust Bruce with anything, but we trust him with multiple picks to try in fill in all the holes on this team?  It's not going to happen, that's just as much of a pipe dream as ya'll are saying my idea is.  Flat out, this guy is terrible, at least if we have a QB this team will be in the conversation every year versus a laughing stock waiting to happen (if aren't one already in August).  You can't hit everything or everywhere, but you won't stand a chance in this league if you don't hit at QB.  You don't stand a chance.

 

Absolutely disagree with this.  One of the reasons I don't see a lot of redskins jerseys in the area is we never have a franchise QB.  I've given a couple examples of bad franchises that hit on QB and all the sudden everyone looked like a "genius".  That's what an elite QB does for your franchise, that's what one would do for us.

 

Edit: The only reason we look at the Griffin trade as a total mistake is because he was a bust.  If he was taking us to the playoffs every year with an MVP or a Super Bowl win, this is a completely different conversation.  We picked the wrong guy, that happens, I don't believe this guy is the wrong one.  More people are starting to agree with that by the way, even if a lot of people in here don't, and its going to get louder as we get closer to the combine.

Yet you trust Bruce with trading up in the draft and giving the QB the roster he needs to succeed???? Lol man get outta here. This is a joke right? Whatever examples of other teams you are thinking of happened because it was done by a REAL GM WITH REAL FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE. Remember when we gave away all those draft pics to the Rams for RG3? Well I'm watching the Rams PLAY RIGHT NOW IN THE PLAYOFFS!!!!!!!! 

[TheShredder]

24 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Absolutely disagree with this.  One of the reasons I don't see a lot of redskins jerseys in the area is we never have a franchise QB.  I've given a couple examples of bad franchises that hit on QB and all the sudden everyone looked like a "genius".  That's what an elite QB does for your franchise, that's what one would do for us.

 

That's a worthless exaggeration when Nick Foles is the Super Bowl Winning MVP (and may do it again) as a third rounder.  You're reaching.  

[Renegade7]

Just now, SprintBomb said:

Yet you trust Bruce with trading up in the draft and giving the QB the roster he needs to succeed???? Lol man get outta here. This is a joke right? Whatever examples of other teams you are thing of happened because it was done by a REAL GM WITH REAL FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE. 

 

I don't trust him, are you even listening to me?  And no, no it hasn't been done by just Real GMs with football knowledge, it is not uncommon for a desperate franchise to trade up for a QB, there is no moratorium on doing what you gotta do in that regard. 

3 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

That's a worthless exaggeration when Nick Foles is the Super Bowl Winning MVP (and may do it again) as a third rounder.  You're reaching.  

 

Does our front office, coaching staff, or roster look anything like what Philly had last year or this year?  You're reaching even suggesting we'd have similar results with Foles here.