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HH: Coach Speculation Publication: STs Kaczor; DBs Horton; TEs Angelichio; ILBs Rob Ryan; OC OConnell; QBs Rattay; Tomsula $$$

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4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think SIP explained it rather well in that yes - those of us that are not fans of the FO will tend to believe negative reports about the organization.  Rumors like coaches wanting out don’t seem like a stretch to us.

 

Dan oughta hire Califan to put out his fires.  I’m not sure I’ve come across anyone more invested in investigating negative Redskins takes and putting together theories that they cannot possibly be true.  Tony Wylie should spend some time here and take notes.

 

What report isn’t negative about the team? 

 

Some are true and some aren’t true I’m sure. So to every single time instantly run with it when there are countless examples of initial reports being proven false seems...well dumb. It comes off painfully obvious you have an axe to grind and have very little interest in discussing anything. “It all must be true cause they’re dysfunctional!” Anything contrary is a protector of the bad guys. As someone who likes to portray themselves as older and wiser, I guess I’m surprised you continue to have this mindset.

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16 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I've said a million times now, my brain is wired to instantly spot logic flaws and work them out until they make sense. Call it the "itchy brain syndrome" lol...

 

My philosophy, on everything:

 

 

2d816c9590eab10ee5815a4bf34ac5d0.jpg

If only Wylie had your innate ability to solve the PR dilemmas the team faces regularly...

 

It’s kind of wierd how despite all the flawed logic pertaining to the dysfunction in Ashburn, the organization continues to produce results that align with that of a dysfunctional organization.

 

🤔

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With 2 games left in the year, 13 other NFL teams had more wins than the Redskins since the start of 2015. So if we’re THAT dysfunctional, are we conceding that half the league is dysfunctional or worse? Over a sample of nearly half a decade’s worth of games? 

Edited by HardcoreZorn
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21 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

What report isn’t negative about the team? 

 

Some are true and some aren’t true I’m sure. So to every single time instantly run with it when there are countless examples of initial reports being proven false seems...well dumb. It comes off painfully obvious you have an axe to grind and have very little interest in discussing anything. “It all must be true cause they’re dysfunctional!” Anything contrary is a protector of the bad guys. As someone who likes to portray themselves as older and wiser, I guess I’m surprised you continue to have this mindset.

There you go again, with the passive aggressive slight.  It wouldn’t be a HardcoreZorn post without one, it’s such a redeeming trait of yours.  It ranks right up there with sensationalizing discussion.  I’ve yet to see one person here claim that Callahan or Tomsula wanting out of here is gospel.  It’s just not hard to believe.  There’s like a half a dozen of you left that still find this stuff hard to believe.    

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11 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

With 2 games left in the year, 13 other NFL teams had more wins than the Redskins since the start of 2015. So if we’re THAT dysfunctional, are we conceding that half the league is dysfunctional or worse? Over a sample of nearly half a decade’s worth of games? 

I must tip my cap to you for digging up that random nugget and running with it.  Out of curiosity, what made you stop 2 games short of the end of the season to make your point?

 

Dysfunction doesn’t always equate to 1-15, particularly not in this era.  I’m sure you could find examples of a 12+ win roster where dysfunction leads to missing the playoffs.  Look at what’s happening in Pittsburgh, historically known as a very functional franchise.  Dysfunction comes in all shapes and sizes and yields different results.

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8 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

To me, I'm not seeing anything "obvious" that a coach would want to be known as unable or unwanting to deal with it so they said "I'm out" instead. A lot of these guys want to be head coaches, not just coordinators or position coaches. McVay probably experienced 10 times more "circus atmosphere" during his 5 years here than Tomsula did in his 2 years with the Skins.

 

Depends on what you believe and as for taking in the gossip component of some of the stories what's your disposition about said parities typically influences whether those narratives make sense.  Does that stuff fit or doesn't fit how you think those parties roll or not and how often did said reporter get their previous gossip right?  As for the idea that there is also some nuances in stories that reporters will miss and sometimes get misled?  Yeah of course but it doesn't make every item wrong.  It's like most things in life -- big picture, big picture, big picture.  

 

According to some who cover the team:

 

Lafemina talked to Norman about him calling out fans -- Bruce didn't like Lafemina "interfering" with players and that started the tension.   So there might be some Lafemina stuff wrapped in with at least some players.  Might be why Norman specifically said the last 6 weeks of the season was a circus.

 

The Reuben Foster signings where they mentioned the players were part of the reason why they signed him and then the players being asked about that and its a national story along with all the other stuff related to it.

 

The narrative that Bruce Allen tells Jay Gruden who to play

 

The Nicholson story

 

The Swearinger versus the coaches stuff and the aftermath of his release which included some players plugging DJ on twitter

 

The gossip that some players didn't love the Sanchez signing in context of who else was available.  Jay saying a week or so ago he'd like to improve the communication between the front office and himself

 

The gossip that there is rampant drinking at Redskins Park and office politics galore

 

Callahan was here for the Scot drama as for whatever went down

 

The general beat down by both the local and national media that the Redskins are poorly run organization and dysfunctional

 

You can split hairs with the language and details all you want. Look I am in a business where I have plenty of insider access to stories that the media writes articles about and blogs gossip about.  Often they will get a detail wrong.  And sometimes they'd get the whole thing wrong.  Gossip sometimes wrong, too.  But if I had to quantify it, they get about 80% of it right.  The 20% or so they get wrong doesn't throw everything out the window.   And when it comes to people's motives there are typically MULTIPLE reasons for it.   So if Tomsula for example wants out and dysfunction is part of the soup, could there be other reasons, too.  Sure.  Human nature 101. 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Chris Russell on the junkies right now is that Gregg Williams is very seriously being discussed inside redskins park 

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11 hours ago, Hogs86 said:

Ben Kotwica wasn’t the reason Tress Way was great this year.  Our punt return game was still awful. We didn’t block any PAT or kicks.  I don’t think the coach made any meaningful contribution and if you average out his teams over the five years right in the middle just like the redskins mediocre. Truly nothing special.

 

And you are certain of this? Way just magically decided to do a better job. Sorry that make no sense at all. 

 

So getting blocked punts is a big metric for you - here are the teams last without a blocked punt: 

LA Rams - NO - KC - Indy - Dallas - Pitt - NE - Philly   - - It's much more difficult to block punts and it's a low % effort to go all out anymore. Too many penalties if you don't itme it exactly right. Most blocked punts now are due to a mistake by the punting team not anything the opposing team is doing. After looking at punts I did not waste my time on PATS. 

 

As for averaging out - like above that makes no sense. He came into a disaster. The six seasons before he was here:  

2013 - 28th

2012 - 21st

2011 - 21st

2010 - 25th

2009 - 23rd

2008 - 25th 

 

He inherited the 2014 team that went 29th. Once he had a year top put in his schemes, his teams were 6th, 13th, 22nd (huge injuries), and 8th.

 

So yea, he did a very, very good job here, regardless of if people want to recognize it or not. 

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I can’t imagine Gregg is considering taking a meeting here.  He’s on record numerous times talking about opportunities he’s passed up on because the situation isn’t right.  We have Jay with 2 years left on his deal on what is viewed as a hot seat, looking for his 4th coordinator, not a ton of cap room, and no QB in sight.  Oh and we have Dan and Bruce calling the shots.  That’s the definition of a situation that isn’t right.

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8 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

With 2 games left in the year, 13 other NFL teams had more wins than the Redskins since the start of 2015. So if we’re THAT dysfunctional, are we conceding that half the league is dysfunctional or worse? Over a sample of nearly half a decade’s worth of games? 

 

In the last decade, Bruce's run, the Skins rank 26th in the NFL in wins/losses. Not including this season because I don't have time to do the maths.

 

https://www.patriots.com/news/nfl-decade-standings-how-the-league-stacks-up-from-2010-2017

 

Only the Raiders, Rams, Titans, Bucs, Jags and Browns have been worse.

 

But quick math says the Rams have passed us. As have the Titans. And a quick look shows we didn't move up. So we're just about 28th/32 teams.

9 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Chris Russell on the junkies right now is that Gregg Williams is very seriously being discussed inside redskins park 

 

He's a name that Snyder thinks Skins fans will get behind.

 

I won't crap on Williams coming in. He's a nut job and this team may need this. But I'm not sure how well that marriage will last. And I'm not sure what rules he'll need to play by. 

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15 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

So yea, he did a very, very good job here, regardless of if people want to recognize it or not. 

I must admit that I expected Kotwica to be fired after the 2017 season.  But after marinating on it and taking into account the impact the injuries had on his unit, I wrapped my head around why he was kept.  That said I’m less concerned about his departure’s impact on the field than I am that he wanted to leave to take the same job elsewhere.  

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15 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I can’t imagine Gregg is considering taking a meeting here.  He’s on record numerous times talking about opportunities he’s passed up on because the situation isn’t right.  We have Jay with 2 years left on his deal on what is viewed as a hot seat, looking for his 4th coordinator, not a ton of cap room, and no QB in sight.  Oh and we have Dan and Bruce calling the shots.  That’s the definition of a situation that isn’t right.

 

 To be honest, I doubt it happens.

With everything going on right now, this may be just a diversion; a way for Allen to kick the can down the street for awhile.

They may leak out that they're seriously considering hiring GW, but remember awhile back when we were looking for a DC, and there were a few names pop up but they dragged their feet, nothing ever came of it and eventually those coaches were hired elsewhere, then the FO shrugged their shoulders.

 

Its just a stall tactic, something to keep the torches and pitchforks at bay for awhile;  maybe a 'controlled burn' would be more appropriate. They know the fans are hot so this is their way of pacifying the fans for a bit until GW is hired elsewhere.

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13 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I can’t imagine Gregg is considering taking a meeting here.  He’s on record numerous times talking about opportunities he’s passed up on because the situation isn’t right.  We have Jay with 2 years left on his deal on what is viewed as a hot seat, looking for his 4th coordinator, not a ton of cap room, and no QB in sight.  Oh and we have Dan and Bruce calling the shots.  That’s the definition of a situation that isn’t right.

 

Does he have a lot of choices though? He might, but most teams have either have a DC already or have gone out and hired one. Not to mention there are a few good candidates still out there (Vance Joseph, Steve Wilks). Let's not forget that post-Bountygate, most of Williams' jobs have been with his good buddy Jeff Fisher. Outside of Fisher world, his other two gigs were as a "senior assistant" for one year with the Titans and then the DC job with Cleveland, which he took about two years ago. Which I'm guessing was not widely viewed as a plum job (with Cleveland arguably viewed as the worst franchise in the league at the time, the team lacking talent, and Hue Jackson looking like a possible lame duck coach).

 

Maybe Williams has rehabbed his image and enough time has passed post-Bountygate. But I still get the impression he has a tough time getting work and his options may be limited. A lot of the league still seems to view him as persona non grata given all the baggage he brings with him.

 

As an aside, if guys like Bill Callahan or Jim Tomsula really want out, why not just quit/retire? You could pull a Bruce Arians and come back in a year. Its certainly not unheard of for coaches to leave like that. If these guys really want out, I suspect we'll see that if the team doesn't let them go. I guess they're hoping to have their cake and eat it too. If they can complain their way out, they get to work elsewhere without publicly quitting or leaving.

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7 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

Does he have a lot of choices though? He might, but most teams have either have a DC already or have gone out and hired one. Not to mention there are a few good candidates still out there (Vance Joseph, Steve Wilks). Let's not forget that post-Bountygate, most of Williams' jobs have been with his good buddy Jeff Fisher. Outside of Fisher world, his other two gigs were as a "senior assistant" for one year with the Titans and then the DC job with Cleveland, which he took about two years ago. Which I'm guessing was not widely viewed as a plum job (with Cleveland arguably viewed as the worst franchise in the league at the time, the team lacking talent, and Hue Jackson looking like a possible lame duck coach).

 

Maybe Williams has rehabbed his image and enough time has passed post-Bountygate. But I still get the impression he has a tough time getting work and his options may be limited. A lot of the league still seems to view him as persona non grata given all the baggage he brings with him.

No argument from me on the baggage that comes with Gregg, limiting his options.  I still don’t see what would make him want to come here, unless he’s dead set on coaching this season and has no other options.

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31 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I must admit that I expected Kotwica to be fired after the 2017 season.  But after marinating on it and taking into account the impact the injuries had on his unit, I wrapped my head around why he was kept.  That said I’m less concerned about his departure’s impact on the field than I am that he wanted to leave to take the same job elsewhere.  


I actually agree with that. We can find other STs coaches - and good ones. My point was that despite the rhetoric from some, Kotwica actually did a pretty good job here. It's easy to see a few bad plays and lose our minds as fans (including myself here). But when you look at the entire job done, he did a pretty damn good job here, and under some truly messed up circumstances. Again, all those injuries we had the last two years, impact STs much more than people want to acknowledge. And he really has no control over that, unlike Bruce and to a certain extent Jay or even Manusky. They are not going out to sign guys for just STs outside the punter and kicker.

 

Back to your point - coaches making lateral job changes is not a good look at all. To some it could appear he is seeing the writing on the wall of a sinking ship and is leaving to a rising ship (new HC for a team). 

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And he knows Jay is out next year and somehow believes he’ll get the HC job they didnt give him when Gibbs left.  That or tbey want him for hard knocks to be the villain and distract cameras from Bruce and Dan.  😜😜

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6 minutes ago, RabidFan said:

And he knows Jay is out next year and somehow believes he’ll get the HC job they didnt give him when Gibbs left.  That or tbey want him for hard knocks to be the villain and distract cameras from Bruce and Dan.  😜😜

The the head coach thing was something actually said by Russell this morning on the Junkies. He said one of the reasons Gregg might would come here is because if he comes here and the team succeeds it makes him look good and also if he comes here and the team sucks but his side plays well it opens up opportunities for him. Also Smoot said years ago that Gregg and Dan patched their relationship up 

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Kotwica was just a warm body.

 

The reason our special teams looked better in recent years is because our roster depth has improved from better drafting and more picks.  We've just had better players playing on the unit since 2014.  When's the last time we had a special teams touchdown or a blocked kick again?  Were there ANY when he was here? Maybe one with Crowder?

Edited by Reaper Skins

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30 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

The the head coach thing was something actually said by Russell this morning on the Junkies. He said one of the reasons Gregg might would come here is because if he comes here and the team succeeds it makes him look good and also if he comes here and the team sucks but his side plays well it opens up opportunities for him. Also Smoot said years ago that Gregg and Dan patched their relationship up 

 

I read that Gregg and Dan had patched things up too, just couldn't find the article, tweet or who said it!

Edited by HigSkin

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Looks like Jets are putting together a nice staff with Adam Gase as HC (though I feel he's better suited for OC) and now potentially Gregg Williams for DC

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I seem recall an interview with Way saying that the difference this year was Kotwica really challenging him and pushing him to be better.  

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10 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s kind of wierd how despite all the flawed logic pertaining to the dysfunction in Ashburn, the organization continues to produce results that align with that of a dysfunctional organization.

 

Lol. That says it all about a lot of this "logic" we're seeing on this thread. 

 

All this reminds me of one of my favorite threads ever on ES. "His name is KIRK!" It provided me with some of the most head-scratching, mouth agape, laugh-out-loud moments ever on this board.

 

The thread was about Bruce constantly saying "Kurt" instead of "Kirk." The LOGICAL explanation to me - the OCCAM'S RAZOR explanation (what I go by in most arguments) - was that Allen was simply being lazy (not doing it intentionally), like many others have been when saying "Kirk." It's simply easier to say "Kurt." Takes less effort, and we'd heard it from many others in the past, from commentators to other players. What was disheartening at the time was hearing our GM constantly do it while in the middle of negotiating a deal with the guy. Allen was getting blasted and mocked for it everywhere at one point. In came his gallant defender, suggesting it was some sort of "southern dialect" issue, even going so far as to asking another poster if he knew and understood how "accents and dialects came into being", lol. "It's pretty complex," he said. I think someone else chided people for making fun of Bruce's potential "speech impediment", lol. 

 

Go back and read through that thread if you're in the mood for some dark comedy.

 

I said the answer was simple: Let's wait and see if Bruce says "KIRK" when given his next opportunity to do so. Then we'll know if it was totally possible for him to have said it correctly all along, hence he was just being lazy/clueless, hence the "complexities of obscure southern dialects" and even stranger speech impediments no longer matter. That opportunity came. That second "K" was hit hard. Case closed, lol. 

 

It's the same kind of thing when seeing how some bend and twist in unnatural ways trying to defend against these "circus" comments and allegations of dysfunction. I'm starting to think some posters here are like 3rd stringers on some debate team where they've been given some exercise to "go to the ExtremeSkins site, search out all negative posts about the owner and front office, and debate each one. Yes, it'll be hard, and might seem absolutely insane at times, but it'll sharpen your skills." 

 

Could there be some media bias out there?

 

Yes, of course.

 

Should we always have an open mind with every story we read, even when the tone of the story coincides with our own viewpoints?

 

Absolutely. We should hold all of this reporting to a high standard, always. We should always be vigilant that we're not ignoring facts and errors for the sake of maintaining a comfort level with our views and current opinions. That should apply to everything in this mob mentality age.

 

But so many things are just as obvious here when it comes to longterm dysfunction as the explanation to the whole "Kurt" vs. "Kirk" thing. The checklist is there. It's plain as day. Twenty years of this now, starting with the way Snyder fired Norv (read about it if you don't remember, it was despicable and worthy of a huge ass-kicking) to the most recent Philly Fan takeover of our empty stadium and everything in between. Even Josh Norman used the word "circus" to describe the team this season. In fact, go google "Redskins Circus" and see what sorts of results you get and how far that term stretches back. "Media bias" doesn't offer a good explanation for why that is. Occam's Razor does. 

 

I understand some of you, though, because I was once one of you. Back in the early 2000s, I would frequent the Redskins newsgroups. There was a guy on there who called himself "King of All Newsgroups." He would constantly rail about Snyder, how he would ruin the team, how he was a terrible owner, etc., etc. My love for the team was too strong back then to see it, so I defended Snyder wherever I could. More than 15 years later, turns out the King had a rightful claim to the throne, and I was just a pauper. He was right all along. I bow before you, King, wherever you are today (You were pretty annoying, though.) 

 

At some point, though, the fog clears, and there before you is the mountain of evidence you've tried to ignore. 

 

11 hours ago, Califan007 said:

Calahan coached on the Cowboys lol...dysfunction should make him yawn at this point.

 

Based on some of your statements here, that sounds like something the Cowboys version of Chris Russell would say. You're suggesting in that comment that the Cowboys had a great deal more dysfunction than the Redskins. To pull a page from your "logic" playbook, what makes you say that? The Cowboys' better record during Callahan's time there vs. his time with us? The playoff victory they had vs. our zero playoff wins during that period? Or the dysfunction that's led to the team's current situation of being set at QB for years? Having an elite RB? A great defense? Being in the divisional round of the playoffs this weekend with yet another playoff victory? Still maintaining a proud/loyal fanbase? Is that the dysfunction you're referring to that's so great that what Callahan's going through now with the Skins would make him yawn? 

 

image.png.51b73120f55b0eb0cdcee080b8ca4edf.png


If you're going to tout such lofty ideals about your posts, you should try to adhere to them.

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2 hours ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Chris Russell on the junkies right now is that Gregg Williams is very seriously being discussed inside redskins park 

 

I'd love that.     I'll go on the record and say I'd be very impressed if they do this.  And not because Gregg is the be all and end all but this:

 

A. it will show they can actually get a coach who is in demand.

B. I like Jay but have some beefs with him including his choices at defensive coordinator where to me he comes off too interested in coaches he's comfortable with.

C.  My most depressing new narrative about Dan is that he's cheap.  In the past, he could at least outbid people for who he wants.  That's gone of late.  He'd likely have to outbid for Gregg.

D. Gregg isn't a go along to get along dude.  Bruce and Duce reputation wise much prefer the go alongs to get along.  Gregg would really go against type.

 

To me this FO right now and the situation we are in is a total crap show right now.  And this isn't me piling on just to pile on.  I've been down on this FO for awhile but I am not exactly a reflex doom or gloom guy. Among other things, I've been optimistic about their chances to have good seasons -- until weeks ago.  And heck I've not even always pounded Dan and Bruce.  They've had to work their way with me over the years to be fed up.  

 

Bruce-Dan's side

The Dan doesn't interfere at all narrative -- I agreed to this during the Shanny era, am off that now but I do agree with the new one that he barely does.

Dan doesn't interfere like he used to:  I agreed.  And I take it on the chin sometimes from some of Dan's critics

Scot-Bruce dispute"  I took Bruce's side.  That's a biggie because plenty still hammer Bruce for it.

Took Bruce's side (after season 1) on Jay.  The idea that Jay is his guy and I defend that and all the Tampa rap that comes with it. 

I defended the Manusky hire even though it wasn't a sexy hire

I praised them for some of the 2017 FA crops -- signings some players I liked. 

I had Dan's back initially on the RG3 narratives

I had Bruce's back through most of the Kirk negotiation until it went awry -- didn't understand the end game at all (if they didn't think he's coming back then at least trade the dude) so that made me reevaluate it all

I've praised Bruce's Kyle Smith hire and college scouting for the most part. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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