Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins
Forum Rules and Guidelines

The Washington Nationals Thread: The Future is Near!

Riggo#44

By Riggo#44
in The Tailgate

 Share

Recommended Posts

Dan T.

Dan T.

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, CRobi21 said:

Wonder what's taking so long for the Lester signing to become official. Hopefully there's no problems in his physical.

 

Maybe the Nats, before signing, are making him prove he can make a pickoff throw to first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

Posted
Posted (edited)

As an outsider looking in, I'm not quite sure what the Nats are doing.  They look like they're in that post World Series stage where they're older but still have familiar names and they want to try and act like they're still the same team that won it all and they just need to add some more veterans to do it.  Lester isn't anywhere close to his prime and the Hand signing is a 1 year deal for win-now mode.  Last year the Nats had the oldest pitching staff in baseball and it hasn't gotten much younger.  

 

It's the Braves and everyone else in that division, the Phillies and Mets are always disappointing and the Marlins have some good young talent but it's unproven.  Maybe the Nats can sneak in as a wildcard if everything goes right but if I were them I'd be looking to build around Soto instead of trying to pretend like they've still got that lighting in a bottle.

Edited by Spaceman Spiff
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bacon

Bacon

Posted
Posted

I'd rather see us rebuild in earnest, yeah. Every year we're not building a strong, sustainable core around Soto is a year of Soto wasted, as far as I'm concerned. I guess they figure it's only right to give Max one more shot at going the distance, but personally I don't think we're any better than 3rd best in the NL East, let alone a major player in MLB as a whole. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Riggo#44

Riggo#44

Posted
  • Author
Posted
3 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

As an outsider looking in, I'm not quite sure what the Nats are doing.  They look like they're in that post World Series stage where they're older but still have familiar names and they want to try and act like they're still the same team that won it all and they just need to add some more veterans to do it.  Lester isn't anywhere close to his prime and the Hand signing is a 1 year deal for win-now mode.  Last year the Nats had the oldest pitching staff in baseball and it hasn't gotten much younger.  

 

It's the Braves and everyone else in that division, the Phillies and Mets are always disappointing and the Marlins have some good young talent but it's unproven.  Maybe the Nats can sneak in as a wildcard if everything goes right but if I were them I'd be looking to build around Soto instead of trying to pretend like they've still got that lighting in a bottle.

 

Couple of counter-points:

1. The only signing we have past this year is Bell, and he's relatively cheap, still in arbitration.

2. Bell and Schwarber potentially add two very big, 35-40 HR bats behind Soto. Last year, it was a conglomerate of crap--we finished the year relying on Brock Holt, Yadiel Hernandez, and a nowhere-near-ready Luis Garcia. They could very well flame out. We'll see. They have also very tradable assets too, at the deadline if things fall apart.

3. Lester is a stop-gap, Cade Cavali will probably take his spot around the All-Star Break. I really like Cavali, and think he's severely underrated. But, time will tell there.

4. They're all one year deals, so nothing really risked there. The Nats have between $60 and $70m coming off the books after this year.

5. We have the 10th pick in the draft this year, I think, so Rizzo has to nail that one.

6. The main drawback is that we are banking on a whole lot of bounce backs/injury returns: Bell, Schwarber, Stras, Corbin, Castro, Harris, Hudson, Robles. Not all of them will bounce back, but the lineup is significantly stronger than last year--they can't possibly be worse than Eric Thames.

7. The NL isn't competitive this year. It'll be the Braves, Nats, Padres, Dodgers, Mets (based mainly on their offense, their pitching after deGrom is suspect), the Brewers? The Cubs are cutting costs, the Cardinals have added no one, Pitt is in full tank mode...again (or still? It's like they never really leave tank mode), the Marlins have some nice pieces, but I am not banking on their full season viability yet, the Phillies are a terrible organization. So again, we'll see.

 

2 hours ago, Bacon said:

I'd rather see us rebuild in earnest, yeah. Every year we're not building a strong, sustainable core around Soto is a year of Soto wasted, as far as I'm concerned.

How do you suggest we do that? Tank? That will take 3-4 years, if everything goes well, if not, look at the Phillies. Sign everyone, and obliterate the CBT? That has significant long term ramifications as well. Rizzo has a very low-risk, high reward strategy here. We can go into the offseason next year in a very good position to make moves.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
@DCGoldPants

@DCGoldPants

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Bacon said:

I'd rather see us rebuild in earnest, yeah. Every year we're not building a strong, sustainable core around Soto is a year of Soto wasted, as far as I'm concerned. I guess they figure it's only right to give Max one more shot at going the distance, but personally I don't think we're any better than 3rd best in the NL East, let alone a major player in MLB as a whole. 

 

Soto is only 23 and hasn't entered what folks consider the prime MLB years. I don't think Rizzo builds to need rebuilds. The roster is old and will turnover in a few years but their next core is already here. Turner, Soto, Robles. They need some of these recently drafted pitchers to develop (which hasn't happened since Stras). 

 

I say **** it.... go all in and get JT now. This division is going to be a bloodbath. Add JT's defense behind the plate and his bat and you have yourself a scary 2021 team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
EmirOfShmo

EmirOfShmo

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Are they giving up on him being a starter?  Not having a minor league season last season was a bummer.

Yeah, I don't know. I haven't found anything about his situation. I guess I was thinking he's a lefty he might be considered for the pen as the long relief guy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Couple of counter-points:

1. The only signing we have past this year is Bell, and he's relatively cheap, still in arbitration.

2. Bell and Schwarber potentially add two very big, 35-40 HR bats behind Soto. Last year, it was a conglomerate of crap--we finished the year relying on Brock Holt, Yadiel Hernandez, and a nowhere-near-ready Luis Garcia. They could very well flame out. We'll see. They have also very tradable assets too, at the deadline if things fall apart.

3. Lester is a stop-gap, Cade Cavali will probably take his spot around the All-Star Break. I really like Cavali, and think he's severely underrated. But, time will tell there.

4. They're all one year deals, so nothing really risked there. The Nats have between $60 and $70m coming off the books after this year.

5. We have the 10th pick in the draft this year, I think, so Rizzo has to nail that one.

6. The main drawback is that we are banking on a whole lot of bounce backs/injury returns: Bell, Schwarber, Stras, Corbin, Castro, Harris, Hudson, Robles. Not all of them will bounce back, but the lineup is significantly stronger than last year--they can't possibly be worse than Eric Thames.

7. The NL isn't competitive this year. It'll be the Braves, Nats, Padres, Dodgers, Mets (based mainly on their offense, their pitching after deGrom is suspect), the Brewers? The Cubs are cutting costs, the Cardinals have added no one, Pitt is in full tank mode...again (or still? It's like they never really leave tank mode), the Marlins have some nice pieces, but I am not banking on their full season viability yet, the Phillies are a terrible organization. So again, we'll see.

 

How do you suggest we do that? Tank? That will take 3-4 years, if everything goes well, if not, look at the Phillies. Sign everyone, and obliterate the CBT? That has significant long term ramifications as well. Rizzo has a very low-risk, high reward strategy here. We can go into the offseason next year in a very good position to make moves.

 

Counter point to your counter point:  

 

This you?

On 8/27/2020 at 8:11 PM, Riggo#44 said:

Unfortunately, we used up our magic pixie dust last year. 

 

Ribbing aside, I understand your counterpoints but I think the main thing I'd be concerned about is #6.   Josh Bell had one big season and some other solid seasons.  As it stands right now, his .936 OPS in 2019 is an outlier, not the norm.  I suspect he's somewhere around an .800 guy which is better than Thames but not elite.  Schwarber strikes out twice as much as he walks and doesn't provide any defensive value.  

 

You're right, they're all on one year deals so nothing is risked, but the fact is that the Nats have a bad farm system and that can't improve overnight.  Many rankings have them anywhere between 26th and 30th.  

 

I doubt that they can spend their way out of what's looming ahead, even if a lot of that money is coming off the books, at some point you need to have a good farm system.   Maybe you're right, the NL won't be as competitive this year but even so, I think there's a big gap between the Dodgers, Padres, Braves and everyone else. If the Nats can have a lot of things go right for them this year, maybe they can make some noise again but IMO these moves are delaying the inevitable.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
@DCGoldPants

@DCGoldPants

Posted
Posted
Just now, Dan T. said:

It's hard to believe Joe Ross is only 27 years old.  He sat out the 2020 season, and is now more than 3 years removed from Tommy John surgery.  I wonder if this might be his true comeback season, as a 5th starter and long reliever.

 

Hope so. That year off when he didn't physically need it could be huge.

 

Last year..... pfftt. We all saw the year before what can happen in a full season. If they played a full season in 2020, that doesn't mean i think we would have come back and won it all again. I doubt we'd still make the playoffs with those injuries. But the roster would have been different. I think different teams would have made the playoffs and we'd probably have a different WS champion.

 

the Nats did what they had to get their WS title. They should go for it again and if it doesn't work, I wouldn't regret the effort at all. This isn't the Burgundy & Gold talking about giving up 1st rounders for Stafford when they need OL, LB, DB help also. Getting lucky with guys staying healthy is the biggest thing for the Nats this year. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Riggo#44

Riggo#44

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Ribbing aside, I understand your counterpoints but I think the main thing I'd be concerned about is #6.   Josh Bell had one big season and some other solid seasons.  As it stands right now, his .936 OPS in 2019 is an outlier, not the norm.  I suspect he's somewhere around an .800 guy which is better than Thames but not elite.  Schwarber strikes out twice as much as he walks and doesn't provide any defensive value. 

I am more optimistic about Bell than I am Schwarber. Schwarber, at best, is Adam Dunn (only not that horrid in left)--lots of walks, lots of Ks, lots of Homers. Bell, outside of last year--which I discount in general--has a good walk rate, a good K rate. Problem last year was he hit the ball on the ground 26% of the time--by far a career high. His hard hit and line drive rate were consistent to 2019. He is getting paired with launch angle guru Kevin Long. I think Long will help him tremendously.

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

You're right, they're all on one year deals so nothing is risked, but the fact is that the Nats have a bad farm system and that can't improve overnight.  Many rankings have them anywhere between 26th and 30th.  

We shall see, but I think you'll see some significant jumps and drops (in general, not necessarily the Nationals) since there was no minor league year last year. I know the Nats are high on Cavali and Rutledge, plus they have a few other intriguing arms in Cole Henry, Matt Cronin (potential lefty closer--upper 90's fast ball and hammer curve). Very little information on them right now. Again, we'll see.

 

As for the pixie dust--there is a bit of that in every championship run. You'll understand that when the O's win one in your lifetime 😄

 

I see the Nats finishing second in the NL East--they're demonstrably better than the Phillies and arguably better than the Mets (mark my words, outside of deGrom and possibly Carrasco, that rotation is going to be ****.) The Padres have gone all-in like this before and they crumbled. That's why they play the games.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I am more optimistic about Bell than I am Schwarber. Schwarber, at best, is Adam Dunn (only not that horrid in left)--lots of walks, lots of Ks, lots of Homers. Bell, outside of last year--which I discount in general--has a good walk rate, a good K rate. Problem last year was he hit the ball on the ground 26% of the time--by far a career high. His hard hit and line drive rate were consistent to 2019. He is getting paired with launch angle guru Kevin Long. I think Long will help him tremendously.

We shall see, but I think you'll see some significant jumps and drops (in general, not necessarily the Nationals) since there was no minor league year last year. I know the Nats are high on Cavali and Rutledge, plus they have a few other intriguing arms in Cole Henry, Matt Cronin (potential lefty closer--upper 90's fast ball and hammer curve). Very little information on them right now. Again, we'll see.

 

As for the pixie dust--there is a bit of that in every championship run. You'll understand that when the O's win one in your lifetime 😄

 

I see the Nats finishing second in the NL East--they're demonstrably better than the Phillies and arguably better than the Mets (mark my words, outside of deGrom and possibly Carrasco, that rotation is going to be ****.) The Padres have gone all-in like this before and they crumbled. That's why they play the games.

 

 

You can be as high on those guys in your system as you want, no one else is :ols: 

 

I can see them finishing second, I can see them finishing under .500.  They are intriguing, that's for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Riggo#44

Riggo#44

Posted
  • Author
Posted
5 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

You can be as high on those guys in your system as you want, no one else is :ols: 

Well, they haven't really been seen in a year, now have they?

 

I mean, the last time the O's had a top catching prospect, it worked out just fine...****ing Matt Wieters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Well, they haven't really been seen in a year, now have they?

 

I mean, the last time the O's had a top catching prospect, it worked out just fine...****ing Matt Wieters.

 

A lot of prospects haven't been seen in a year, this isn't a problem that's unique to the Nats.  Even before the 2019 season their system wasn't highly ranked, it hasn't magically gotten better.

 

If you want to talk **** about the Orioles, feel free to stay on topic over in the Orioles thread.  :) 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Riggo#44

Riggo#44

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

A lot of prospects haven't been seen in a year, this isn't a problem that's unique to the Nats.  Even before the 2019 season their system wasn't highly ranked, it hasn't magically gotten better.

 

If you want to talk **** about the Orioles, feel free to stay on topic over in the Orioles thread.  :) 

 

Well I would, bit no one has posted in there since September or so. Dust that thing off, would you? (Although, if I posted over there, it would probably generate some interest...)

 

And it is a unique problem for the Nats because every one that doesn't bow down the greatness of our organization is clearly biased and hates us.

 

In seriousness, we have not drafted well in the past couple of years--we've had mediocre results since 2014, our last several top picks were Fedde, Kieboom, Dunning, and Romero. Dunning is on his third org now, Kieboom showed power in the minors but not here, Fedde is mediocre at best, and Romero looks like a complete bust. Good thing we've been successful in the international market.

 

Edited by Riggo#44
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Riggo#44

Riggo#44

Posted
  • Author
Posted
5 minutes ago, CRobi21 said:

Wonder if this was the reasoning for cutting out the pre/post game shows. So they could launch this..

 

So Angelos finally joins the 2010's! Celebrate!!

 

He's still a cheap, old-ass **** who still owes us $100m give or take...

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...