The Washington Nationals Thread: The Future is Near!

[Commander -JB-]

1 hour ago, bearrock said:

 

Again, it's not about not trusting Rizzo.  If forced to work with the limitations of staying under or barely toeing over the luxury tax, it's a prudent move.  But staying under or around the tax is an ownership decision, not a GM decision.  What I'm saying is that the Lerners stupidly handcuffed Rizzo by not letting him go over the tax for the next two years to keep Rendon.  

Man, Rendon was never staying here long term.  I accepted that well before we won the WS.  You could tell his heart is out west.  Very thankful he played such a huge part of us winning it all but he was never staying.  We just won the WS and he left.  It isn’t because the Nats didn’t offer him a fair deal.  The Nats would have had to go well above and beyond to retain Rendon.  Even doing all of that I honestly think he leaves.  I’m just going on my gut instincts and how I’ve always read Rendon.  Just like I have always felt that Strasburg’s Heart has always been here.  Just my 2 cents.

[Bacon]

My favorite baseball player is going to die on the vine with the simultaneous best and most futile player of the 2010s, a phenom that breaks in half every time there's a stiff breeze, crazy Joe Maddon playing guys out of position for innings at a time because he bought into his own brain genius reputation, and a 55 year old Albert Pujols that has an AAV higher than the entire Kansas City Royals payroll. This sucks.

[Commander -JB-]

55 minutes ago, Bacon said:

My favorite baseball player is going to die on the vine with the simultaneous best and most futile player of the 2010s, a phenom that breaks in half every time there's a stiff breeze, crazy Joe Maddon playing guys out of position for innings at a time because he bought into his own brain genius reputation, and a 55 year old Albert Pujols that has an AAV higher than the entire Kansas City Royals payroll. This sucks.

The Angels stunk last season and they still don’t have any pitching.  Rendon is a huge addition but I can’t see how they survive without quality pitching.

[Commander -JB-]

Such a cornball.

[StillUnknown]

7 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

Personally, I want the kid to get his opportunity at 3rd.

 

You think he can hold up defensively at 3rd? I dont.

 

Its either me Donaldson or trade for me. 4 yrs for donaldson is a not ideal, but probably required at this stage

Edited December 12, 2019 by StillUnknown

[Commander -JB-]

If Kris Bryant isn’t a Free Agent until after the 2021 season and Rizzo lands him in a trade he’s the GOAT lol

[bearrock]

5 hours ago, -JB- said:

Man, Rendon was never staying here long term.  I accepted that well before we won the WS.  You could tell his heart is out west.  Very thankful he played such a huge part of us winning it all but he was never staying.  We just won the WS and he left.  It isn’t because the Nats didn’t offer him a fair deal.  The Nats would have had to go well above and beyond to retain Rendon.  Even doing all of that I honestly think he leaves.  I’m just going on my gut instincts and how I’ve always read Rendon.  Just like I have always felt that Strasburg’s Heart has always been here.  Just my 2 cents.

 

There's literally nothing to support that position.  He was offered 7/210-215 by the Nats with deferred money and took 7/245 from LA with no deferred money, but he went there because his heart was always out west?  You don't think it might have had something to do with getting 30 million more without deferment?  

10 minutes ago, -JB- said:

If Kris Bryant isn’t a Free Agent until after the 2021 season and Rizzo lands him in a trade he’s the GOAT lol

 

Epstein is not a moron and two year controlled Bryant will cost a ton in a trade.  Assets you don't have to give up to resign your own guy

[bearrock]

5 hours ago, mammajamma said:

People really mad at Rizzo after all of the talent we have on this team? Kinda odd. Watching the postseason highlights, and his pickups for last year alone may have won us the trophy

 

People shouldn't be mad at Rizzo.  They should be mad at the Lerners.  

[Commander -JB-]

29 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

There's literally nothing to support that position.  He was offered 7/210-215 by the Nats with deferred money and took 7/245 from LA with no deferred money, but he went there because his heart was always out west?  You don't think it might have had something to do with getting 30 million more without deferment?  

 

Epstein is not a moron and two year controlled Bryant will cost a ton in a trade.  Assets you don't have to give up to resign your own guy

Well obviously if his intent was to head out west he was gonna take the money from the Angels even if the Nats offered him 7/245 🤷‍♂️  I would have guaranteed Rendon would be gone no matter what If the Nats didn’t advance in the playoffs again.  They won the WS so it made us all feel much different about everything.  I truly believe his mind was already made up to leave.  Even if he played lights out down the stretch for us.  He’s a class guy who deserves all the praise in the world for how he handles himself.  He’s just a different kind of guy, like Kawhi.

 

You can be mad at the Lerners all you want but they have vision and so does Mike Rizzo.  You have to look forward when constructing a team within the budget.  There’s plenty more moves to be made.

Edited December 12, 2019 by -JB-

[Forehead]

I'm subscribing to the Bill Simmons five year rule, that makes this hurt less.

[Commander -JB-]

Mike Trout/Anthony Rendon = 675 Mill invested between them.  That is ludicrous 😂

[RichmondRedskin88]

We could accept that Rendon’s comments about DC weather and other stuff was hinting that he really preferred to go somewhere else. He could have very well told them he preferred nicer weather, different city, etc but that he’d stay if they majorly ponied up.  Strasburg always hinted he wanted to stay but of course wanted a much better contract.  The owners don’t need to be immediately blamed everytime.  The management, team, and certain players even appealed for him to stay and structured their contracts for it to happened.  Obviously the money was a bigger lure than the appeal of going for another title and staying with his teammates.

[bearrock]

33 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Well obviously if his intent was to head out west he was gonna take the money from the Angels even if the Nats offered him 7/245 🤷‍♂️  I would have guaranteed Rendon would be gone no matter what If the Nats didn’t advance in the playoffs again.  They won the WS so it made us all feel much different about everything.  I truly believe his mind was already made up to leave.  Even if he played lights out down the stretch for us.  He’s a class guy who deserves all the praise in the world for how he handles himself.  He’s just a different kind of guy, like Kawhi.

 

You can be mad at the Lerners all you want but they have vision and so does Mike Rizzo.  You have to look forward when constructing a team within the budget.  There’s plenty more moves to be made.

 

What evidence do you have that Rendon's intent was to head out west?  He signed out west cause he got more money out west.  I don't begrudge him either way, but only evidence to support the notion that he wanted to be out west is that he signed there.  Well he also had 30 million reasons over 7 years to sign there too.  It doesn't mean that he wanted to be out west no matter what the Nats offered.

 

Also, we already know Rizzo had a team vision with Rendon at 7 years because he offered him that deal.  The issue was how much money he was authorized to offer.  That vision is on the Lerners.  That has nothing to do with constructing a squad.  Lerners could max out the first tier of luxury tax for the next two years (and probably beyond) and still turn a healthy profit.  And that's even before they get make up money from MASN and the increased deal going forward.  The difference between what Rizzo was authorized to offer and what Rendon accepted is 6 million + the value of deferment, assuming Nats go over the tax.  That has nothing to do with team vision by Rizzo.  That has everything to do with an arbitrary budget set by the owners.

 

This would be different if luxury tax penalty was a hammer in the MLB.  It's a finger wag.  It's myopic and terrible decision making by the Lerners to not go 10-15 mil over it for the next two years in last years of Scherzer's contract, coming off a season where you just proved that you have a world series squad.  

[StillUnknown]

1 hour ago, bearrock said:

 

People shouldn't be mad at Rizzo.  They should be mad at the Lerners.  

 

Really hard to sell you let him go for what amounts to 5mil a year. Not everyone is a fan of deferred funding

[Commander -JB-]

21 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

What evidence do you have that Rendon's intent was to head out west?  He signed out west cause he got more money out west.  I don't begrudge him either way, but only evidence to support the notion that he wanted to be out west is that he signed there.  Well he also had 30 million reasons over 7 years to sign there too.  It doesn't mean that he wanted to be out west no matter what the Nats offered.

 

Also, we already know Rizzo had a team vision with Rendon at 7 years because he offered him that deal.  The issue was how much money he was authorized to offer.  That vision is on the Lerners.  That has nothing to do with constructing a squad.  Lerners could max out the first tier of luxury tax for the next two years (and probably beyond) and still turn a healthy profit.  And that's even before they get make up money from MASN and the increased deal going forward.  The difference between what Rizzo was authorized to offer and what Rendon accepted is 6 million + the value of deferment, assuming Nats go over the tax.  That has nothing to do with team vision by Rizzo.  That has everything to do with an arbitrary budget set by the owners.

 

This would be different if luxury tax penalty was a hammer in the MLB.  It's a finger wag.  It's myopic and terrible decision making by the Lerners to not go 10-15 mil over it for the next two years in last years of Scherzer's contract, coming off a season where you just proved that you have a world series squad.  

Once again, you are claiming that if the Nats offered 7/245 that Rendon automatically stays because YAY we won a WS.  That is also unfounded.  Rendon has made comments about Nats attendance and the weather, etc.  Angels are top 5 in attendance and they are out west where the sun shines beautifully.  I mean, we literally just went through this last off-season with Harper.  I’m not crying over anybody leaving.  Rendon is a grown ass man who can to wherever the hell he likes.  He ain’t worth 7/245 to the Nats.  How’s that 8/260 they gave Arenado working out for the Rockies?  

 

Let me be clear, I’ve backed the Lerners/Rizzo since day one.  From signing Werth to show we mean business in free agency to shutting down Stras to letting Jordan Zimmermann walk to trading for Adam Eaton and giving up Giolito to not hiring Bud Black to letting Harper walk to finally winning the World Series.  I damn sure ain’t about to spit in the face of the guys who made that all possible.  They clearly have vision.  They ain’t perfect but they have a plan and they stick to it and make moves that nobody expects or understands like stealing Trea Turner/Joe Ross from the Padres or stealing Howie from the Phillies.  I trust this group to make moves to compete year in and year out.  They’ve earned my respect.

Edited December 12, 2019 by -JB-

[bearrock]

25 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

We could accept that Rendon’s comments about DC weather and other stuff was hinting that he really preferred to go somewhere else. He could have very well told them he preferred nicer weather, different city, etc but that he’d stay if they majorly ponied up.  Strasburg always hinted he wanted to stay but of course wanted a much better contract.  The owners don’t need to be immediately blamed everytime.  The management, team, and certain players even appealed for him to stay and structured their contracts for it to happened.  Obviously the money was a bigger lure than the appeal of going for another title and staying with his teammates.

 

Money usually will be the biggest lure, especially when it's your first non-controlled contract.  If Nats made an equivalent offer and Rendon left, you tip your cap and say too bad.  7/215 with deferment is not an equivalent contract.  It's not even a market contract.

 

1 minute ago, -JB- said:

Once again, you are claiming that if the Nats offered 7/245 that Rendon automatically stays because YAY we won a WS.  That is also unfounded.  Rendon has made comments about Nats attendance and the weather, etc.  Angels are top 5 in attendance and they are out west where the sun shines beautifully.  I mean, we literally just went through this last off-season with Harper.  I’m not crying over anybody leaving.  Rendon is a grown ass man who can to wherever the hell he likes.  He ain’t worth 7/245 to the Nats.  How’s that 8/260 they gave Arenado working out for the Rockies?  

 

No, I'm not saying Rendon stays when offered same money.  I'm saying it's a mistake for the Nats to not go over 7/215 with deferment.  Rendon may or may not stay when offered a similar deal.  But there's no way he stays when offered 30 million less.  You're the one saying he would've left no matter what he was offered.

 

So he's worth 7/215 but not 7/245?  Modern metrics will tell you you're wrong.  

 

Arenado is on a team not ready to contend.  Rendon is the centerpiece of a defending champion.  Where is this team without Rendon last year?  And it will cost more than 35 mil per year to replace 6 WAR in free agency, even if you disregard he playoff performance.

 

 

[Commander -JB-]

8 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Money usually will be the biggest lure, especially when it's your first non-controlled contract.  If Nats made an equivalent offer and Rendon left, you tip your cap and say too bad.  7/215 with deferment is not an equivalent contract.  It's not even a market contract.

 

 

No, I'm not saying Rendon stays when offered same money.  I'm saying it's a mistake for the Nats to not go over 7/215 with deferment.  Rendon may or may not stay when offered a similar deal.  But there's no way he stays when offered 30 million less.  You're the one saying he would've left no matter what he was offered.

 

So he's worth 7/215 but not 7/245?  Modern metrics will tell you you're wrong.  

 

Arenado is on a team not ready to contend.  Rendon is the centerpiece of a defending champion.  Where is this team without Rendon last year?  And it will cost more than 35 mil per year to replace 6 WAR in free agency, even if you disregard he playoff performance.

 

 

Bryce Harper was the centerpiece of a team that missed the playoffs and got 330 million.

[bearrock]

6 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Bryce Harper was the centerpiece of a team that missed the playoffs and got 330 million.

 

Which is why I didn't claim Nats should have offered Harper the same deal he got from Philly.  

 

[Commander -JB-]

38 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Which is why I didn't claim Nats should have offered Harper the same deal he got from Philly.  

 

Man the Nats just operate the right way.  Fans talking about Lerners being cheap being why they let Rendon walk I just don’t wanna hear it.  Harper got 330 mill last off-season.  Phillies stink.  Trout gets 430 mill Angels stink.  Arenado gets 260 mill Rockies stink.  Machado gets 300 mill the Padres stink.  Rendon gets 245 mill the Angels pitchers still stink.  LOL what are they gonna do?  Give Bumgarner 100+ mill now?  What a joke.  Nats ownership & Mike Rizzo have a clear plan.  They didn’t win a WS just because they had Anthony Rendon.  They won a WS because they signed Juan Soto & Victor Robles out of the DR, they traded for Howie, they traded for Trea Turner, they traded for Adam Eaton, they signed Patrick Corbin, they just made so many shrewd moves that fit a plan that they envisioned would work and it did.  How can fans not trust these guys at this point?  

Edited December 12, 2019 by -JB-

[SemperFi Skins]

I'm hoping we go after Arenado personally. I take him over Bryant. Rockies said they are listening to offers...

[Mr. Sinister]

This sucks. No way around it. I knew it was coming though. I doubt it will get better once Ted Lerner dies. 

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, -JB- said:

Mike Trout/Anthony Rendon = 675 Mill invested between them.  That is ludicrous 😂

 

For those that want to be mad at the Lerners and/or Rizzo, I understand. I am disappointed that Tony left--however--the Angels spend like crazy and don't win--that $675m does not include Pujols, who is one of the worst contracts in MLB right now.

 

Spending does not equate to winning. A lot of times, it's hindrance.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Not sure why you guys are upset, Rizzo said last week they can only keep one between Stras and Rendon.  They obviously made their choice.  Did any of you really think they were going to keep both?

 

I hope Rendon goes on to have a great career and makes it to the HoF but I don't think he's interested in winning.  He's implied what he wants, nice weather and to get paid.  He got a ring, cross that off the list...cash in, play in nice weather, set his family up for life.

 

I don't know what the hell the Angels are thinking, they need pitching not a stud 3rd baseman.  This move makes no sense for them.  

[Burgold]

I guess we knew. Still always sad to lose a homegrown player who made it.

[Riggo#44]

Just now, Burgold said:

I guess we knew. Still always sad to lose a homegrown player who made it.

 

I think it was Chase Hughes who tweeted something pertinent to those pissed at Rizzo: The Nats have so much talent, much of it homegrown, it's impossible to keep everyone. Both Rendon and Strasburg went on a Flacco-esque tear through the post-season in the walk years. Well timed, and their value sky-rocketed.