The Washington Nationals Thread: The Future is Near!

[bearrock]

17 minutes ago, -JB- said:

What are you talking about?  Bud Black Managed the Padres for a damn decade and never made the postseason!  Dusty Baker May have had the reputation of overworking his starters but he managed numerous winning clubs and the only stain on his resume is that he never won the World Series.  It’s laughable to argue Bud Black as a better big league manager than Dusty Baker.  Laughable.

 

Did you see the talent level on those Padres teams that Black managed to at least usually 70+ wins and at least once 90+?  Even some of the reporting at the time suggested Rizzo wanted Black over Baker.  Rizzo publicly stated after the Baker hire that they were negotiating and considering both.

 

While it's fine to view Baker as superior to Black (I'm sure many would share that opinion), the view that Black was correctly offered the job, that Nats were too cheap with Black (which really has nothing to do with Baker v Black), or that Black would've done really well in DC aren't some ridiculous viewpoints either.  I'm not sure if it's just style or if I'm reading it wrong, but your replies to others today come off as really dismissive and overly belittling.

[Commander -JB-]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

No. Not really

Up to that point Bud Black had managed for nearly a decade without a single postseason appearance.  The only person speaking emotionally about any of this would be @skinsfan_1215 since he blurted out “He would have been better than Dusty.”  That is a ridiculous statement considering Baker had proven himself more than capable of managing contending teams deep into the postseason even managing in the World Series.  Bud Black had no track record for success in all the years he managed.  One could wonder how he got so many years in San Diego 🤔 

14 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Did you see the talent level on those Padres teams that Black managed to at least usually 70+ wins and at least once 90+?  Even some of the reporting at the time suggested Rizzo wanted Black over Baker.  Rizzo publicly stated after the Baker hire that they were negotiating and considering both.

 

While it's fine to view Baker as superior to Black (I'm sure many would share that opinion), the view that Black was correctly offered the job, that Nats were too cheap with Black (which really has nothing to do with Baker v Black), or that Black would've done really well in DC aren't some ridiculous viewpoints either.  I'm not sure if it's just style or if I'm reading it wrong, but your replies to others today come off as really dismissive and overly belittling.

I’m not trying to be disrespectful.  I just find it baffling that there is such an affinity for Bud Black.  Really, that’s always kinda pissed me off LOL I apologize to you guys if I’m coming off as an emotional asshole 😂  We are World Champions 😎

Edited November 11, 2019 by -JB-

[Mr. Sinister]

You're coming off as.... Something. 

 

I mean his SD history is fair, though you have to argue how much better anyone else would've fared there.Whats also fair is pointing out Dusty's resume, though that has literally nothing to do with whether or not someone is a better fit for an organization over another person, whether it pisses you off or not.

 

The real matter is what he would've done here, because at the end of the day, talent is what matters. And I think he would've been just as good as Dusty, if not better (and I honestly didn't have that much of a problem with Baker). Not really gonna say much else on the topic.

[Bacon]

4 hours ago, StillUnknown said:

I give the Lerner's credit for spending on players, especially in a time where man teams/owners are choosing to go as low as possible. That said, they have always been notoriously stingy with the money when it comes to head coaches.

 

Common sense would dictate that Martinez will get his extension before the season starts right? He's entering the final year of his deal and coming off a world series win. A raise is in order

 

I hope so. Despite the results, he still has a lot to learn, but everyone here has bought in 100% and that's one less thing for the players to think about. They trust their manager and don't feel they have to second guess him, and that trust is based on actual results. 

[bearrock]

10 minutes ago, Bacon said:

 

I hope so. Despite the results, he still has a lot to learn, but everyone here has bought in 100% and that's one less thing for the players to think about. They trust their manager and don't feel they have to second guess him, and that trust is based on actual results. 

 

I think the minimum they can do is at least pick up that fourth year option this off season.  I would prefer an extension, (never thought I would say that about Davey.  Again, sorry!  Delicious crows!) but it makes no sense to walk into next year as Davey's final year with the unexercised option over his head.  Boston tacked on another year after Cora won in his first year.  The exercise of the option would be essentially the same thing.  Lerners may say, oh we plan on picking up the option next winter, but there's no reason to do it now.  I would counter that with how important perception is in professional sports.  Especially when it comes to managers having full backing of ownership.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

5 hours ago, StillUnknown said:

 That said, they have always been notoriously stingy with the money when it comes to head coaches.

 

 

The level of baseball expertise here is why I keep coming back.

 

All delightful repartee aside, I don't think there has ever been an era where managers do less than the one we are currently living in.

 

[mammajamma]

what do you guys think the timeline will be for rendon/stras offers? 

[Commander -JB-]

1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

You're coming off as.... Something. 

 

I mean his SD history is fair, though you have to argue how much better anyone else would've fared there.Whats also fair is pointing out Dusty's resume, though that has literally nothing to do with whether or not someone is a better fit for an organization over another person, whether it pisses you off or not.

 

The real matter is what he would've done here, because at the end of the day, talent is what matters. And I think he would've been just as good as Dusty, if not better (and I honestly didn't have that much of a problem with Baker). Not really gonna say much else on the topic.

It just seems like Bud Black has been given a heap of praises for literally nothing.  Why would Bud Black be a better fit for this organization?  What is the basis for that assumption?  You say it’s fair to point out how he accomplished nothing in many years in San Diego.  I’m tired of hearing about how some guy is a tremendous manager when he hasn’t accomplished squat in years on the job.  That HAS to stop.  White privileged at its finest.  I said it.

[Mr. Sinister]

Ok

[Bacon]

45 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

The level of baseball expertise here is why I keep coming back.

 

All delightful repartee aside, I don't think there has ever been an era where managers do less than the one we are currently living in.

 

 

And yet...it's Dave Roberts and AJ Hinch who took the full blame for their team's failures. Managers need to exude professionalism and consistency, know how to manage a bullpen and ultimately have thick skin. It doesn't take a genius to manage a baseball team, just a handful of qualities. 

 

Hell, Davey still doesn't know how to manage a bullpen. The smartest thing he did all postseason was take those decisions off the table. But he kept his head down and took abuse like a champ, which is half the battle. 

[@DCGoldPants]

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Bacon said:

 

 

 

Hell, Davey still doesn't know how to manage a bullpen. The smartest thing he did all postseason was take those decisions off the table. But he kept his head down and took abuse like a champ, which is half the battle. 

 

Well, that was the strategy. There was no tomorrow unless he went to starters in a relief appearance.

 

I was all about the Dave isn't up to the task life back in May. Now I'm hoping he learned a lot this year. However, they need better arms in the pen next season so you don't burn out a Doolittle. That's a fact. 

[bearrock]

55 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

The level of baseball expertise here is why I keep coming back.

 

All delightful repartee aside, I don't think there has ever been an era where managers do less than the one we are currently living in.

 

 

You could take that as true and still conclude the managers are undervalued in MLB.  I think there is certain truth to the fact that in the old days, quality of managers created a huge swing based on in-game decision making.  Even then, Whitey Herzog was reported to have opined that top manager over a replacement level means a 5 win swing.

 

With the advent of analytics, we see a smaller difference between the quality of managers' in-game decisions because everyone now embraces analytics and that means they pretty much are looking at the same probabilities.

 

But we are now starting to see that not everyone will process that information in the same way.  Martinez embraced small ball in a year of the homerun.  And you would probably have multitude of approaches to handling the Nats bullpen woes in the playoff.  Martinez took a cue from Cora in the WS last year and used starters as bullpen.  A manager like Baker probably relies on his starter to go 6-7 every game and relies heavily on Hudson and Doolittle.  Yet we saw Martinez come as close to forfeiting WS games as you'll see in games 3 and 4 and refused to bring in Hudson and Doolittle even while the games could be considered to be in striking distance.

 

I think discrepancy in the quality of modern day managing has shrunk.  538 once put it at something like +- 2.7 WAR.  That's half of the Herzog era.  But we're seeing managers get paid around a million per season with highest salary being 6 million last year.  That's not even 1 WAR value for a free agent player.

 

In addition, I think Nats fans this year saw the value of off field managing.  This team could have and probably would have imploded under most managers.  While a great clubhouse was a big part of it, Martinez held it together.  I love the story about what he told Parra after the initial streak wore off and he was in a funk.  Martinez called Parra into his office and said he doesn't care if Parra goes 1-100.  His role was to bring positivity and energy to the clubhouse and just to keep continue being him.  Before the playoff started Parra talked about how much that meant to him and strived to be a positive voice for the rest of the season.  It's the little moments like that I think makes a difference in modern managing. 

 

I think Joe Maddon once said most of his work is not done from the first inning to the ninth inning, but from the end of the ninth inning to the beginning of the next first.  He said sometimes he feels like a priest, dealing with the steady procession of all kind of different issues that streams into his office.

 

15 minutes ago, mammajamma said:

what do you guys think the timeline will be for rendon/stras offers? 

 

Hard to see anything happening before the Winter meetings for Rendon.  Stras might be a candidate for something in November.  But Rizzo moved quickly last year, so who knows (and probably saw value in moving quickly.  One way to think of it is Boras views longer free agency as more favorable to the player.  That could be interpreted to mean quicker signing as more beneficial to the team.  Then again, Boras almost got stuck in the cold when Nats offer for Harper evaporated after the Corbin signing.  But as the saying goes, it takes only one team)

[TheGoodBits]

Jesse Dougherty for the Post dropped a nugget in this afternoon’s article about the Nats FA plans. Boras is attending the GM meetings in AZ, but he has a rep in DC on standby in case negotiations between Stras and the Nats progress quickly. I’d be shocked if he isn’t back, and soon. 

[Warhead36]

I expect Stras to re-sign pretty quick, although there is a chance he waits for Cole to sign to set the market(or maybe Cole waits for Stras to sign to set the market). Rendon though could take a while.

[Bacon]

Stras before winter meetings, Rendon probably sometime in January. I don't think it gets dragged out as long as the Harper mess. 

[Riggo#44]

I've always felt this was going to be a quick re-sign with Strasburg. He does not strike me as the type to want a prolonged negotiation. He lives here now, year-round. The familiarity is huge for him. He said last time "The grass isn't always greener."

[TheGoodBits]

8 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I've always felt this was going to be a quick re-sign with Strasburg. He does not strike me as the type to want a prolonged negotiation. He lives here now, year-round. The familiarity is huge for him. He said last time "The grass isn't always greener."

And this time our grass is as green as it comes. 

[tshile]

7 hours ago, bearrock said:

At this point, Rendon and Stras may have more star power in DC than Harper. 

God I hope so

 

it would be a pathetic town that liked the guy not here more than the two that just won a World Series 

Edited November 12, 2019 by tshile

[Bacon]

I didn't like Bryce all that much even when he was here. Don't really think being liked was ever his goal though. 

[purbeast]

LOL I just came across this and didn't remember seeing it in here.

 

 

[StillUnknown]

 

[Riggo#44]

I tried watching Stras highlights. It's so filthy and dirty, it was flagged as NSFW.

[Going Commando]

19 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

The level of baseball expertise here is why I keep coming back.

 

You're just annoyed that the Nationals got in the way of Houston's greatness.

[Warhead36]

28 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You're just annoyed that the Nationals got in the way of Houston's greatness.

Na he's a Pirates fan, remember? You know, the team that employs a guy who committed statutory rape.

[Riggo#44]

15 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Na he's a Pirates fan, remember? You know, the team that employs a guy who committed statutory rape.

 

Which one are you referring? Kang or Vazquez?