OVCChairman Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: JD Martinez got $110 million over 5 years, and he can opt out after year 2 (having made $50 million) or year 3 (having made $72 million). And I agree, FA is a joke. You said "His [Boras'] abilities would be majorly questioned" Like, how is the FA market being ****ty for everyone Boras' fault in any way? I dont think it is his fault... my point was if Harper were to come back to the Nats and take the original deal after walking away without so much as an official count offer, would mean Boras was proven completely wrong, and that's why I don't think we get Harper for 10 / 300. The offer would have to be larger unless there was no other choice, and that's why I don't think we can assume 10 / 300 is a fair thought of what our future cap would look like, because I don't think that deal is going to happen. Edited February 15, 2019 by OVCChairman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: I dont think it is his fault... my point was if Harper were to come back to the Nats and take the original deal after walking away without so much as an official count offer, would mean Boras was proven completely wrong, and that's why I don't think we get Harper for 10 / 300. The offer would have to be larger unless there was no other choice, and that's why I don't think we can assume 10 / 300 is a fair thought of what our future cap would look like, because I don't think that deal is going to happen. The Nats original offer expired on the day FA opened. I don't think the Nats put much actual thought into it; they just wanted to ballpark a reasonable number that didn't insult Harper/Boras, so that if the situation presented itself, they'd be on good terms for a real negotiation. A real negotiation won't end up back at the original offer, or if it did, it would only be a coincidence. The original offer also didn't have any opt-outs, which was basically a poison pill because neither side wanted that deal to be accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said: The Nats original offer expired on the day FA opened. I don't think the Nats put much actual thought into it; they just wanted to ballpark a reasonable number that didn't insult Harper/Boras, so that if the situation presented itself, they'd be on good terms for a real negotiation. A real negotiation won't end up back at the original offer, or if it did, it would only be a coincidence. The original offer also didn't have any opt-outs, which was basically a poison pill because neither side wanted that deal to be accepted. I agree. We were talking about Harper vs the cap and whether it would be able to include Rendon, and the idea was we could still make it work if we signed him to 10 / 300 because of some other moves and changes. My response later was to add to my thought process that if we signed Harper, than we'd be likely sacrificing Rendon, and in my original thought I didnt include the fact that I dont personally believe 10 / 300 gets it done because I don't think Boras is willing to take that deal because of how bad it would make him look if he went back and agreed to the original deal. That i agree with you that it WONT end back at the original offer. That offer is now gone so we can't make assumptions or predictions based on those numbers. That we'd have to sweeten the pot (Like JD Martinez deal with $72 mil paid over the 1st 2 seasons and opt outs in each of the remaining 3). That changes the scope of the effect of signing Harper vs the ability build the remainder of the roster.... IF we're attempting to stay below the luxury tax threshold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Gotcha. Well, #1, as you stated at the end, there is no cap. There is a penalty for going over a certain number. #2, I am 99% sure that Harper is viewed by Rizz as a luxury, whereas Rendon is a foundational piece. Any contract offered to Harper will take into account some cost associate with retaining Rendon. That's just my hunch tho. Finally, Boras is a pro and a lawyer. As such, as a pro, I think he can put his ego away and do what is in the best interest of his client and, further, as a lawyer, he has an ethical obligation to do exactly that. And again, I think the fact that the original deal did not have any opt outs gives Boras cover, even if Harper ends up taking less money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Agree with PB that while the Nats offer was certainly sizable, it was mainly a save face offer. I made the point when they initially made the offer, then Mark Lerner said they were topped out, that it wouldn’t have been difficult for them to go from 10yr $300m with no opt outs to 11yr $340m with 2-3 opt outs. The latter deal doesn’t hurt them much worse from an AAV standpoint compared to the first offer, but probably gets Harper to sign... maybe even before FA. They weren’t seriously trying to re-sign him. They’ve known he was gone for awhile. And I’m ok with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Gotcha. Well, #1, as you stated at the end, there is no cap. There is a penalty for going over a certain number. #2, I am 99% sure that Harper is viewed by Rizz as a luxury, whereas Rendon is a foundational piece. Any contract offered to Harper will take into account some cost associate with retaining Rendon. That's just my hunch tho. Finally, Boras is a pro and a lawyer. As such, as a pro, I think he can put his ego away and do what is in the best interest of his client and, further, as a lawyer, he has an ethical obligation to do exactly that. And again, I think the fact that the original deal did not have any opt outs gives Boras cover, even if Harper ends up taking less money. I hope so, but it's not going to be easy. I don't think it's possible to sign Bryce, sign both Rendon AND Turner, and ALSO stay under the threshold for the idea of the long term... somewhere the balloon has to get squeezed. Harper gone, Rendon / Turner gone / Exceed tax threshold. Edited February 15, 2019 by OVCChairman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 hours ago, OVCChairman said: I hope so, but it's not going to be easy. I don't think it's possible to sign Bryce, sign both Rendon AND Turner, and ALSO stay under the threshold for the idea of the long term... somewhere the balloon has to get squeezed. Harper gone, Rendon / Turner gone / Exceed tax threshold. I vote exceed tax threshold cause, well, it's not my money 😛 I agree with everyone that 10yr/300 mil with no opt out was a save face offer for two reasons. One, Nats would have to clearly overpay to keep Harper from FA. The chances were that Harper was always gonna want to see what the market would bear and only way to keep him FA would be to offer something that he and Boras would agree wasn't a possibility in FA. Two, no opt out was a poison pill. But the rumors really have me doubtful that he's gonna get more than 300 mil with 30+ AAV. The only number we've heard so far is White Sox with apparently 175/7 to Machado or 8/250. And White Sox is a team that would have to drastically overpay to attract Harper or Manny and even they aren't going over 300 mil. If Harper already had an offer on the table with 10 yr, multiple opt outs and 30+ AAV, I think he would have signed or Boras would have forced a bidding war to bring this to a close. The fact that Harper is taking meetings with SD and SF, long after the supposed hot and heavy suitor with supposed "stupid money" Phillies meeting and that Machado appears to desperately want some type of a palatable deal with the Yankees, I think indicate what everyone suspected, that even for superstars in their prime, the bottom on the FA market has fallen out. If Harper eventually signs a 10 yr deal with 30+ AAV, I'll be proven wrong, but as it stands, if Nats were to go back to Harper and offer 10/300 with 2 opt outs, I think they'd be clearly in the lead position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 10 hours ago, Barry.Randolphe said: Has anyone been to some other spring training venues for the NL East teams? Just wondering how those compare to the Nats' new park. Been to Atlanta Braves place at Disney, the Mets facility in Port St. Lucie, and the Cardinals/Marlins Roger Dean Stadium. The Nats ballpark beats all three, in my opinion. Better sight lines, wider concourses, and bigger beer selection. Downside is there’s not much in the neighborhood around the facility... in that regard, Roger Dean Stadium and the Braves place at Disney are better. Mets’ is similarly bereft of nearby amenities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Dang Max went in on Bryce 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Daaaaamn lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, spjunkies said: Dang Max went in on Bryce Theres only a handful of guys that can be described as “prominent vets” and I can’t see Zimmerman, Rendon, or Strasburg responding that way to Boswell. Max, with his extremely competitive nature... I definitely could. He ain’t got no time for not running out grounders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Well, he's not wrong, lol. No matter where he goes, Bryce would do well to heed the big brotherly advice from Max. He's got all the talent to be a great player, but with the right focus and intensity like Max, he could leave a lasting legacy on the game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 You figure a man choking you over it would leave a lasting impression 😂😂😂 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 It's so obviously a pitcher too. No one gets pissed off like a pitcher lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Eh. Maybe it's Philly. But everyone's sources have been wrong when they say something is happening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry.Randolphe Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 18 hours ago, Dan T. said: Been to Atlanta Braves place at Disney, the Mets facility in Port St. Lucie, and the Cardinals/Marlins Roger Dean Stadium. The Nats ballpark beats all three, in my opinion. Better sight lines, wider concourses, and bigger beer selection. Downside is there’s not much in the neighborhood around the facility... in that regard, Roger Dean Stadium and the Braves place at Disney are better. Mets’ is similarly bereft of nearby amenities. Thank you, sir! I've been to the Nats park and it is absolutely gorgeous. I'll probably have to travel back down that way for work soon, was thinking about doing a tour of the ballparks. I'm looking forward to checking out the Braves new facility in Sarasota next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: Eh. Maybe it's Philly. But everyone's sources have been wrong when they say something is happening. Even if they get Bryce, we're still better 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Riggo#44 said: Even if they get Bryce, we're still better I agree but that would irritate the **** out of me. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 7 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said: I agree but that would irritate the **** out of me. The worst part would be the influx of their garbage fans that have been hibernating since 2012. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 7 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said: I agree but that would irritate the **** out of me. They timed their rebuild around Harper’s FA. I’ve always assumed that was the most likely destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 A few days ago it was San Fran. Then back to DC. Now it's Philly again. Before all of that it was Ted Lerner not allowing Philly to outbid him. Translation. I don't believe anything until something is finalized. If Boras got his face saving deal, it would have been signed asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 It would be really shocking if Phillies pay significantly over 300 over 10 years or if Nats allow Harper to leave to division rival for just a little over 300/10. Guess we'll see. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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