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Riggo#44

2019 Washington Nationals Thread - Baby Shark! Doo do doo doo do!

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10 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

2012 - team with first playoff run. Maybe they advance if Storen doesn't choke, but that team was not good enough to win it all. 

 

2014 - team lost to better Giants team. Lost in 4 games too. 

 

2016 - team lost to better Dodgers team. Lost in 5 games. Team was loaded. Had Scherzer too. Remember, last 2 years 2012 and 14 no Scherzer! 

 

2017 - team lost to better Cubs team. Cubs team wins WS if I'm not mistaken. 

 

Therefore is it very clear that 2016 and 2017 were the best teams, especially when both had Scherzer 

I feel like the 2012 team had a crapload of character, fight, and heart though too, which in some cases leads to special things in sports.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, CaptainJames2004 said:

I feel like the 2012 team had a crapload of character, fight, and heart though too, which in some cases leads to special things in sports.

dude their best starter was Jordan Zimmerman 

 

Strasburg was being limited? 

 

Bryce wasn't there yet IIRC, or maybe he was rookie. Don't think he was on there yet but could be wrong. Later teams were LOADED with talent including one of the best in Scherzer, an unlimited Strasburg, etc 

 

 

Edited by ixcuincle

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Just now, ixcuincle said:

dude their best starter was Jordan Zimmerman 

 

Strasburg was being limited? 

 

Bryce wasn't there yet IIRC, or maybe he was rookie. Don't think he was on there yet but could be wrong. 

 

 

They definitely had Bryce. I vividly remember him all jacked up when Werth hit the game-winning HR after his epic at-bat. I'm not debating the "talent-level" of that team, just saying they were pretty in-sync that year. It was such a fun season to follow.

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2 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

dude their best starter was Jordan Zimmerman 

 

Strasburg was being limited? 

 

Bryce wasn't there yet IIRC, or maybe he was rookie. Don't think he was on there yet but could be wrong. Later teams were LOADED with talent including one of the best in Scherzer, an unlimited Strasburg, etc 

 

 

 

We made the playoffs in 2012 largely due to the spark from Bryce's call-up. 

 

Agree with you that later teams were better on paper... 2012 did have that special kind of feel though. 

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I hope this season continues on a downward trajectory so there's zero chance that the status quo is maintained. Clean house at the break and set up the future of this team. 

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7 minutes ago, Bacon said:

I hope this season continues on a downward trajectory so there's zero chance that the status quo is maintained. Clean house at the break and set up the future of this team. 

 

I don’t trust ownership to sign off on a rebuild. It’s absolutely the right thing to do though. There’s a close to 0% chance the Nats seriously compete in the next 2 years. 

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4 minutes ago, CRobi21 said:

Do you deal Max? He's not getting any younger..

Yes, it’s painful when he goes on the mound and he deserves better.

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26 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

 

I don’t trust ownership to sign off on a rebuild. It’s absolutely the right thing to do though. There’s a close to 0% chance the Nats seriously compete in the next 2 years. 

 

There's no way they look at our farm system and think the future of our pitching looks bright. That's the main problem. The whole thing needs to be restocked. 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, CRobi21 said:

Do you deal Max? He's not getting any younger..

 

Absolutely. He’s been my favorite player by far for the past few seasons so I’d hate to see him go, but he’s also one of the players you could expect to get a solid return for. And he won’t be under contract when the Nats are competitive again. 

 

List of who I’d trade, in rough order of expected return, with FA year in parentheses: 

 

Scherzer (2022)

Gomes (2022)

Eaton (2022) 

Doolittle (2021)

Rendon (2020)
Sanchez (2022)

Suzuki (2021)

Strasburg*** (2020, 2021, or 2024)

Dozier (2020)

Kendrick (2020)

 

Strasburg is a huge wild card and honestly his contract might be untradeable. Still a damn good pitcher but he’s got opt outs this year and next, and a team that trades for him is going to have to pay him a long time even if he gets hurt, which he’s been known to do. 

 

 

Edited by skinsfan_1215
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Posted (edited)

 

I'm sure MAT is a swell human being, but he is broken at the plate. fortunately for him, he fits right in at the moment

 

 

3 hours ago, CRobi21 said:

Do you deal Max? He's not getting any younger..

 

I think the amount of deferred money on the deal would limit the haul we could expect to get for him

Edited by StillUnknown

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:
 

 

 

 

I think the amount of deferred money on the deal would limit the haul we could expect to get for him

 

Maybe... he’s still under contract for 2.5 years at the equivalent of like $35m/yr. So high salary but his performance backs it up. I think there would be significant bidding from top contenders this year who are looking to put themselves over the top with a legit ace.

 

edit- I’m assuming the Nats would still be responsible for the deferred money from the past 4 years and his new team would only be responsible for the deferred $ on the years they have him. 

Edited by skinsfan_1215

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3 hours ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

 

Absolutely. He’s been my favorite player by far for the past few seasons so I’d hate to see him go, but he’s also one of the players you could expect to get a solid return for. And he won’t be under contract when the Nats are competitive again. 

 

List of who I’d trade, in rough order of expected return, with FA year in parentheses: 

 

Scherzer (2022)

Gomes (2022)

Eaton (2022) 

Doolittle (2021)

Rendon (2020)

Suzuki (2021)

Strasburg*** (2020, 2021, or 2024)

Dozier (2020)

Kendrick (2020)

 

Strasburg is a huge wild card and honestly his contract might be untradeable. Still a damn good pitcher but he’s got opt outs this year and next, and a team that trades for him is going to have to pay him a long time even if he gets hurt, which he’s been known to do. 

 

 

I agree with this. If you're gonna tank and rebuild, go all in the right way. I think just about everyone on that list could fetch, at the very least, a decent return, and I think Scherzer could fetch a lot since he's still under contract for so long and is still outstanding. Eaton might be the only one actually that doesn't net a LOT in a deal just because of his injury history and the fact that he's an OF that doesn't really provide pop(usually the OFs that go for big in the trade deadline are power bats).

 

Its time to rebuild around Soto, Robles, and Kiebloom.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

 

 

Its time to rebuild around Soto, Robles, and Kiebloom.

And Turner.

 

Ideally you’d extend all of them on very team-friendly deals, soon, to get them under contract for 8-10 years each (probably wait til Kieboom shows some more next year). Gives you a huge window for a rebuild and a chance to add good FAs around them. 

Edited by skinsfan_1215

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I'm not too gloom and doom about this team because, yeah, there's a young core here that's still very good. 

 

And I do want us to keep Rendon. Sure, listen to offers, but I don't know that the rest of the league necessarily sees as much value in him as we do, so I doubt we get the haul he's really worth. 

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5 hours ago, stoshuaj said:

Yes, it’s painful when he goes on the mound and he deserves better.

 

Yep. Get the best deal possible, don't let him waste away over here

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I think we’ve expected too much too soon from Soto, Robles and - to a lesser extent, Turner. When Bryce came up he played in the shadow of the vets on the team - Werth, Zimm, LaRoche, etc.  He wasn’t expected to be THE guy right away.  I’m not sure this team has that protective veteran base for the young guys.  Zimm is on his last legs, Rendon is too laid back and quiet to lead, Eason is a spark plug but more of a support role guy. There’s no one on the offensive side to be Mr. Clutch, and it’s unfair at this point to expect the young guys to assume that role. 

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19 hours ago, ixcuincle said:

dude their best starter was Jordan Zimmerman 

 

2012, Gio Gonzalez finished 2nd in the Cy Young.

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32 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

2012, Gio Gonzalez finished 2nd in the Cy Young.

 

And again in 2012 they didn't even have Scherzer 

 

The 2016 and 17 teams contended for titles 

 

The 2012 team not so much 

 

On paper the 16/17 teams were much better and could have gone further had they just won that game 5. I see the 2012 team flaming out even if Storen gets the save. 

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1 minute ago, ixcuincle said:

The 2016 and 17 teams contended for titles 

 

And this is why Dusty was let go--we crushed the regular season (which seems like distant memory now), but he made several Davey-level, managerial gaffes both years.

 

We're at the point now where we have to decide which direction to go--try and ride an aging rotation? Do we trade what we can and try to get younger, cheaper, healthier? We have young talent in Soto, Robles, and Kieboom--who are experiencing some growing pains. We have NO young pitching--our best is probably 1st round pick last year, Mason Denaburg, who is several years away. We're out of the International jail, and we are the favorite to sign the #16 prospect--Andry Lara from Venezuela, a 16 yr old that touches 96. But, again, light years away...if ever.

 

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Posted (edited)

Whatever way they decide to go, they need to be decisive. No time for fence straddling, choose a path and dont half-ass it.

 

Edited by StillUnknown
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3 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

Whatever way they decide to go, they need to be decisive. No time for fence straddling, choose a path and dont half-ass it.

 

 

It really depends on who they can get. I think Rendon would fetch more than Harper last year. Doolittle would get us a nice haul too. BUt man, I'd hate to lose those two. They're two of my favorites. I would not trade Max--he's our Hall of Famer. Strasburg has a no trade, I think. Keep Turner. Trade just about anyone else.

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30 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

It really depends on who they can get. I think Rendon would fetch more than Harper last year. Doolittle would get us a nice haul too. BUt man, I'd hate to lose those two. They're two of my favorites. I would not trade Max--he's our Hall of Famer. Strasburg has a no trade, I think. Keep Turner. Trade just about anyone else.

 

Strasburg might be willing to waive a no-trade, and maybe at least one of his opt-outs, for the right team. San Diego is an up and coming team who could use pitching... That all of course limits Strasburg's value, but if your goal is to set yourself up for a highly successful 2022-2027 window, you probably want to get out from under his contract. 

 

I'd hate to lose Max too man, I'm literally already (sorta) planning my family trip to Cooperstown for his induction ceremony. But Nats need premium pitching prospects in the worst way and I can see a top line starter like Max fetching an absolute haul in return with multiple teams bidding for him. 

 

Our catchers are both under contract for 2 and 3 more years at reasonable prices, catchers are always a need for any team, I could see them fetching a bit. 

 

There's always a huge demand for closers too, and we have one who isn't that expensive and isn't a rental, and also happens to be one of the better closers in the league. 

 

Rendon should be roughly in line with Harper last year... maybe a hair more. Depends on how many teams need a 3B though. I haven't looked enough to know. 

 

Bottom line: if they decide to blow it up, they have a LOT of good players under contract for several years they could expect a good return for. Nats could end up with upwards of 8-10 top 100 prospects in the next two years (currently have 2)

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Scherzer is going to the HoF either way and is most likely going in wearing a Nats cap whether we trade him now or not. Might as well get a haul for him now while we can.

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