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Poll : Source of Massive Injuries the last 2 years

2017 and 2018 Season Injuries  

146 members have voted

  1. 1. Cause of the roughly 25 players on IR, on each of the last 2 seasons ?

    • Over the last 2 years, the majority of our injuries have been preventable. (Elaborate)
      62
    • Over the last 2 years, the majority of our injuries have NOT been preventable (bad luck of the draw, coincidence, etc) Elaborate
      52
    • It's something more sinister (part of a conspiracy, etc) Elaborate
      13
    • Other (Elaborate)
      23


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I'm at a loss to know which injuries were preventable and we're blaming on soft practices.  Are we blaming them on Guice's ACL?  On Trent dislocating his thumb?  Dunbar having a nerve issue. Jordan Reed's surgically repaired toe was somehow supposed to be better by knocking helmets during the week.  And so on.  How was hitting in practice gonna keep even half these guys on IR on the field?  

 

I'm partially being sarcastic, but I think people are trying to make sense of it all by creating explanations that dont really have anything to support them.  

Edited by justice98
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9 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Setting aside why players are getting injured so often for a second, I wonder about the idea that we add a lot more guys to IR toward the end of the seasons because we’re lacking enough guys to field our 46.  For example, I believe we had 14 on IR around the Jacksonville game, but now we’re up to 20. 

 

This doesn’t change the narrative - we’re still consistently near the worst in injuries - but I do wonder if it makes things look even worse.  A domino effect, in essence.  

 

It's roster management as much as it is medical. Like putting Mo Harris on IR in week 17 adds to the number and makes it look worse than it is.

10 hours ago, carex said:

would harder practices really prevent injuries?  why wouldn't it just cause them to get hurt in practice?  And besides what if he's going easy because players are practicing hurt

 

Seems like common sense, doesnt it?

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1 minute ago, justice98 said:

 

It's roster management as much as it is medical. Like putting Mo Harris on IR in week 17 adds to the number and makes it look worse than it is.

Right, this was my point.  Most teams would just deactivate their injured guys for the final game or two, but because our myriad of injuries (not just the IRed guys), we had to shut down guys like Harris and Reed.  

 

Again, not trying to downplay our injury issues... something has to change on that front for sure.  

 

Sidenote:  I really, really hope someone gets in Gruden’s ear about more uptempo practices.  1) I don’t think it’s a coincidence Chip Kelly’s Eagles we’re always so healthy, 2) you improve endurance to improve your chances using (and versus) hurry up, and for more push at the end of halves, and 3) you get everyone more reps.  I mean, why the heck wouldn’t you?

 

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1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

 

Sidenote:  I really, really hope someone gets in Gruden’s ear about more uptempo practices.  1) I don’t think it’s a coincidence Chip Kelly’s Eagles we’re always so healthy, 2) you improve endurance to improve your chances using (and versus) hurry up, and for more push at the end of halves, and 3) you get everyone more reps.  I mean, why the heck wouldn’t you?

 

 

Everybody talking about 'you play how you practice' in this conversation, Gruden doesnt really do much up tempo in games.  That's just not his offense.  Even our 2-minute drills barely seem that up tempo.  

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14 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said:

I think roll-ups and broken legs are not preventable. We’ve seen tons of those. 

Agreed. Add in the unusual shin/nerve injury of Dunbar too.

And if part of the issue is "soft" practices, Why does our weekly injury report have so many of these injuries occur mid-week during practice??

I really feel that the best answer here is bad luck, although I truly believe that one of Grudens weaknesses is preparation. Both physical and mental.

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19 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Agreed, the poster I was referring to, said the playcall itself was why Alex got injured.  Which to me is insane.  The whole world saw that blitz coming a mile away, Alex didn’t and took a flukey, brutal injury as a result.

Alex SAW that blitz before the snap..he started back RUNNING immediately after he saw the back didn't pick it up. If you want to blame Alex for holding the ball and not getting rid of it...fine. But the CALL that left an empty backfield on a "The whole world saw that blitz coming a mile away" was stupid. You made my point for me..even if you didn't mean to. Thanks!

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12 hours ago, justice98 said:

I'm at a loss to know which injuries were preventable and we're blaming on soft practices.  Are we blaming them on Guice's ACL?  On Trent dislocating his thumb?  Dunbar having a nerve issue. Jordan Reed's surgically repaired toe was somehow supposed to be better by knocking helmets during the week.  And so on.  How was hitting in practice gonna keep even half these guys on IR on the field?  

 

I'm partially being sarcastic, but I think people are trying to make sense of it all by creating explanations that dont really have anything to support them.  

Im at a loss to know which injuries are just flukes.  Which ones, over every game, year in and year out, that other teams dont have, are just flukes.  Are we blaming bad luck for all of our ACL injuries?  Are we blaming them for our offensive linemen dropping like flies every year?  Multiple players with serious nerve injuries?  And so on, that other teams dont have?  How is sticking thumbs in our ears and pretending nothing is wrong going to fix us leading the league in injuries for 4 straight years?

 

Im partially being sarcastic, but I think people are trying to make sense of it all by creating explanations that dont really have anything to support them, unlike the readily available facts about 4 straight years of catastrophic injuries under Gruden.

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1 hour ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Alex SAW that blitz before the snap..he started back RUNNING immediately after he saw the back didn't pick it up. If you want to blame Alex for holding the ball and not getting rid of it...fine. But the CALL that left an empty backfield on a "The whole world saw that blitz coming a mile away" was stupid. You made my point for me..even if you didn't mean to. Thanks!

First and foremost, I’m still waiting for you to find me someone that shares your position that the playcall got Alex hurt.  I read the board and listen to Redskins talk regularly and never once have I heard anyone make the proclamation that you did.  Even the most ardent Jay critics on this board haven’t agreed with your take.

 

As for the play itself, the Redskins were in scoring position and last I checked, Alex had some autonomy at the LOS to make adjustments.  Pretty much the only thing he couldn’t do there was take a sack.  He did and received an unfortunate injury as a result.  It’s that simple.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome

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11 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

Everybody talking about 'you play how you practice' in this conversation, Gruden doesnt really do much up tempo in games.  That's just not his offense.  Even our 2-minute drills barely seem that up tempo.  

This is true, although I wouldn’t say that’s “not his offense”, but rather it’s not his style.  Adding to that, as a ‘player’s coach’, I wonder if he could handle (or would just be too concerned about) the potential backlash if players had to change to more grueling practices.

However, it would be nice to see uptempo practices for the other reasons I mentioned.  

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1 hour ago, Peregrine said:

Im at a loss to know which injuries are just flukes.  Which ones, over every game, year in and year out, that other teams dont have, are just flukes.  Are we blaming bad luck for all of our ACL injuries?  Are we blaming them for our offensive linemen dropping like flies every year?  Multiple players with serious nerve injuries?  And so on, that other teams dont have?  How is sticking thumbs in our ears and pretending nothing is wrong going to fix us leading the league in injuries for 4 straight years?

 

Im partially being sarcastic, but I think people are trying to make sense of it all by creating explanations that dont really have anything to support them, unlike the readily available facts about 4 straight years of catastrophic injuries under Gruden.

 

The majority of OL injuries for any team are roll-ups. They are fluky and generally not preventable other than by extreme awareness of your surroundings (which good OL have anyway). Google it - there was a great article on it a few years ago. 

 

We also have seen hand/finger injuries to OL which is also typical and largely not preventable. 

 

Ask anyone who played OL and they’ll agree with this. For even more fun ask them if they have any fingers they HAVEN’T had broken. 😂 (I don’t)

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Gravitational effects from being inside the event horizon of Snyder's ineptitude

 

or

 

Contaminated water source since they seem to **** the bed regularly

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8 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said:

 

The majority of OL injuries for any team are roll-ups. They are fluky and generally not preventable other than by extreme awareness of your surroundings (which good OL have anyway). Google it - there was a great article on it a few years ago. 

 

We also have seen hand/finger injuries to OL which is also typical and largely not preventable. 

 

Ask anyone who played OL and they’ll agree with this. For even more fun ask them if they have any fingers they HAVEN’T had broken. 😂 (I don’t)

Sure, they are all fluky.  I agree, all of the injuries over the past 4 years, that happen every year, over and over again, that other teams dont have, are all fluky.

 

I mean that makes perfect sense in bizarroland.  I dont even know why we pay a training staff because it wouldnt matter if Billy-bob Johnson were the trainer.

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I believe that the amount of injuries are reflective of the Training and Medical Staff, coupled with a historical Coulter that the Redskins training and Rehabilitation facilities are poor. Players have left the Skins telling horror stories of how they were treated and forced to comeback early.  There's also a dynamic that Gruden is too easy on them and is never going to call anyone out or rock the cruise ship mentality that is the Washington Redskins.  This is a terrible combination for the resulting statistics that have produced guys clocking out and riding IR or milking injuries, taking training and prep for granted, and overall disrespect for the organization as a whole. 

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41 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Sure, they are all fluky.  I agree, all of the injuries over the past 4 years, that happen every year, over and over again, that other teams dont have, are all fluky.

 

I mean that makes perfect sense in bizarroland.  I dont even know why we pay a training staff because it wouldnt matter if Billy-bob Johnson were the trainer.

 

Not what I said at all. 

 

I’m talking only about the majority of OL injuries. I’m also making a general statement about OL injuries. 

 

I’m frustrated too. Don’t be a dick. 

 

This is what I’m talking about: https://www.si.com/nfl/2014/08/29/offensive-lineman-injuries-luke-joeckel

Edited by MassSkinsFan

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3 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said:

 

Not what I said at all. 

 

I’m talking only about the majority of OL injuries. I’m also making a general statement about OL injuries. 

 

I’m frustrated too. Don’t be a dick. 

 

This is what I’m talking about: https://www.si.com/nfl/2014/08/29/offensive-lineman-injuries-luke-joeckel

No, no no, you're not getting away that easily.  That IS what you said, because when I responded to someone who literally ignored the facts and links already posted in the thread showing this was not fluky but a 4 year trend, you interjected yourself and said "The majority of OL injuries for any team...are fluky and generally not preventable".

 

So in other words, thats exactly what you said, and while you could have interjected anything else, you specifically chose to interject that, as that was the point you wanted to get across.  The name calling is cute, but looks about as bad on you as the whole rest of what you posted.

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2 hours ago, Peregrine said:

No, no no, you're not getting away that easily.  That IS what you said, because when I responded to someone who literally ignored the facts and links already posted in the thread showing this was not fluky but a 4 year trend, you interjected yourself and said "The majority of OL injuries for any team...are fluky and generally not preventable".

 

So in other words, thats exactly what you said, and while you could have interjected anything else, you specifically chose to interject that, as that was the point you wanted to get across.  The name calling is cute, but looks about as bad on you as the whole rest of what you posted.

 

I pointed out, correctly, a fact known to people familiar with the game: most OL injuries are roll-ups. I’m not asserting that injuries at other positions are due to flukiness. Just OL. 

 

Show me evidence that I’m wrong about the ability of training/staff to prevent roll-ups and I’m happy to aplologize for calling you a dick. 

Edited by MassSkinsFan

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The "source" of all the injuries this team has incurred over the past 2 years is a little bit of -- some preventable, some bad luck.  I would also attribute slightly more of it to the toxic environment that the leadership of this organization has set up and perpetuated consistently for years.

Edited by Probos

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Injuries are a part of the game.  Lisfranc injuries, ACLs, torn pecs/biceps, are a part of the game.  What worries me are the seeming rash of muscles strains and joint sprains that seem to linger.  I am not a fan of power lifters as the only source of strength and conditioning, as long, lean muscles tend to hold up better than bulky muscles.  Yes, linemen have to be goliaths astheir jobs are to move humongous humans from point A to B, buy everyone else has to be stretched like they've come out of Willy Wonka's Taffy puller.  Even the linemen need to have a better stretching and limbering regimen.  It seems we don't have that.  It seems our medical staff, having the foremost surgeons in the sports medicine world, lack any kind of cogent and sophisticated rehabilitation skills.  That's the biggest upgrade this team can make this off-season, imho.  Guys are going to get hurt, but they cannot disappear for large chunks of the season.  Allen, Gruden et Al cannot forsee who is gonna suffer grave injuries, but they can demand better rehab and conditioning facilities to help our players be the best that they can be.  Maybe this will keep guys around the facility more in the off-season instead of at their college campuses where they have access to state of the art technology.

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9 hours ago, Peregrine said:

No, no no, you're not getting away that easily.  That IS what you said, because when I responded to someone who literally ignored the facts and links already posted in the thread showing this was not fluky but a 4 year trend, you interjected yourself and said "The majority of OL injuries for any team...are fluky and generally not preventable".

 

So in other words, thats exactly what you said, and while you could have interjected anything else, you specifically chose to interject that, as that was the point you wanted to get across.  The name calling is cute, but looks about as bad on you as the whole rest of what you posted.

 

I'm not trying to get into both of your conversations back n forth about this, I'm just asking a question or 2 that could shed light on the subject.

Does anyone think maybe it could be from dirty tactics?  I'm thinking way back to th' Hogs and how they simply steamrolled d-lines; I don't remember roll-ups happening back then, but it seems to be something familiar today.

Thinking as a d-lineman, if I'm locked in and cannot move, falling down and rolling would seem to disrupt other players around me, and there have been a few cases where it looked obvious that a d-lineman rolled up onto an o-lineman' legs. Maybe I'm wrong but 'dirty ' football is being played by some players.

 

There's this thing called 'influence blocking', where an o-lineman seems to be trying to block a d-lineman from going a certain way, only to be steering him further away from the play or leading him into a no mans land area. { I think this is what Gibbs was describing but it was awhile back }.

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Club Gruden....no accountability for the players to stay in shape NONE. Inmates run the asylum when it comes to the strength and conditioning in this organization. It's far more acceptable and normal to make your millions on the trainers table year in and year out at Redskins Park. I've been preaching it for 3 years now. None of it is coincidence 

Edited by LoDown91

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I've said it in other threads, and I'll say it again here. At least regarding the injuries on the OL, I think they're a direct result of 2 things.

1. Drafting "value" players with injury history that slide lower than they would be drafted if they had healthy college careers

2. Jay's "power" running scheme, with everyone bunched up in the middle of the field, bodies falling all over the place, I think is a direct cause of all the lower body injuries the OL gets hit with every single year.

Shanny for all his faults had a mostly healthy O line during his time here, and I really think that's due to the ZBS, not guys banging straight up against the defenders in front of them, trying to out muscle them.

The sweep, movement, angle blocks, cuts etc helped keep the OL in space and moving which led to reduced injuries imo.

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Its a combination of many factors.

 

1. Drafting/acquiring players with an injury history, like for example Paul Richardson. Genetics are random and some bodies are just more brittle than others and we seem to like getting guys who are talented but brittle.

 

2. Lack of depth. When you have poor depth, you have to play your starters more, which increases injury likelihood. Its no coincedence that our strongest position of depth, DL, was also the healthiest(only Ion missed games).

 

3. Bad strength/conditioning. This is really only for the constant hammy/ankle tweak type injuries, but its been reported for years how soft our training methods are, and how we focus more on recovery than outright prevention.

 

4. Straight up bad luck. Unfortunately that's what some injuries are. No amount of depth or training can prevent a broken wrist or torn pec.

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