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Poll : Source of Massive Injuries the last 2 years

2017 and 2018 Season Injuries  

146 members have voted

  1. 1. Cause of the roughly 25 players on IR, on each of the last 2 seasons ?

    • Over the last 2 years, the majority of our injuries have been preventable. (Elaborate)
      62
    • Over the last 2 years, the majority of our injuries have NOT been preventable (bad luck of the draw, coincidence, etc) Elaborate
      52
    • It's something more sinister (part of a conspiracy, etc) Elaborate
      13
    • Other (Elaborate)
      23


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I don't think play calling caused the Alex Smith injury either.  Have you seen how often Andy Reid puts Mahomes in 5-wide sets?  Is he begging to ruin is career?   I do think the Hangman is strangely fond of Alex Smith.  But that is coming from someone who may have an unreasonable hatred for AS.

 

I think the soft tissue stuff could be linked to preparation, maybe genetics too with the guys who have extensive injury history.  OL stuff I would contribute to heavy footed guys.  Its lot easier to get rolled up on when your not moving your feet.

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I think it's a bunch of things that aren't easy to confirm. 

 

Training and Medical Staff? 

 

Playing half their games on turf that has been complained about for years? 

 

Signing/drafting/keeping players without stellar records of health? (if healthy, this guy would be.....) 

 

Preparation in the summer and during the week (soft practices)? 

 

Add all those up and year over year you see what we see. 

 

Moving forward they should be looking for blue collar lunch pail guys who haven't missed a snap in their lives. A team of those will always be better than one with 20+ on IR even if they aren't superstars. 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

3. Poor conditioning due to soft, laid back practices and training camps. I don't think it's THE biggest factor like Art posted about recently, we build around and rely on too many heavily injured players for that not to out-weigh everything else, but it is certainly a factor and easily comes next for me. 

I know you touched on it in the end, but felt it was worthy of discussion.  Perhaps ‘Club Jay’ exists due to the extensive injured list he’s dealing with as a result of what you said in your first point.

 

I’m not saying he’s right or that he’s not a bit overboard with it, just that i can understand the mindset given the overall makeup of the personnel he’s dealing with.

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would harder practices really prevent injuries?  why wouldn't it just cause them to get hurt in practice?  And besides what if he's going easy because players are practicing hurt

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Setting aside why players are getting injured so often for a second, I wonder about the idea that we add a lot more guys to IR toward the end of the seasons because we’re lacking enough guys to field our 46.  For example, I believe we had 14 on IR around the Jacksonville game, but now we’re up to 20. 

 

This doesn’t change the narrative - we’re still consistently near the worst in injuries - but I do wonder if it makes things look even worse.  A domino effect, in essence.  

Edited by skinny21

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23 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Setting aside why players are getting injured so often for a second, I wonder about the idea that we add a lot more guys to IR toward the end of the seasons because we’re lacking enough guys to field our 46.  For example, I believe we had 14 on IR around the Jacksonville game, but now we’re up to 20. 

 

This doesn’t change the narrative - we’re still consistently near the worst in injuries - but I do wonder if it makes things look even worse.  A domino effect, in essence.  

 

Every team loads up their IR, even with more minor injuries, the last couple weeks of a lost season. With no playoffs in sight, it's better not to risk your injured guys and you can get a look at your youth or depth in a bigger role. 

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@ConnSKINS26 said it better than I could, I'll elaborate on just a couple..

 

1. Everybody knew that Williams, Luavao, Moses, Reed, Crowder, Doctson and Richardson were all injury prone at this point.  Moses hasn't missed games, but he's ALWAYS at like 58% and the reason he plays at times is that there's nobody else who's even available.  Ty is also injury prone, so the backup to two injury prone guys is injury prone.

 

Anybody with half a brain could see that this was going to just be a catastrophe waiting to happen.  The one 'high value" free agent we brought in?  Richardson, who has struggled with injuries in the past.

 

This is by far the #1 reason we end up with a lot of injuries.  We fall in love with guys who try hard and have talent but can't stay on the field.  That's an organizational problem.

 

2.  Our preparation, from coaching, training, practice, etc. is all crap.  That's on Jay, the training staff, the assistant coaches, everybody.  We don't prepare our team to play a physical game, then we try to play a physical game, and question why our guys break down.  I get Jay wanting to keep guys healthy, but what he's been doing for 5 years hasn't worked.  At some point you have to point to the plan.

 

3. There is some dumb bad luck.  Alex breaking his leg is dumb bad luck.  Trent breaking his thumb is dumb bad luck.  Sometimes you just have unavoidable situations.  Shrug.

 

4.  I will never forgive Gruden for calling an inside pass route to CT in garbage time of the Saints game, and then Alex threw it high and outside and CT got his ribs broken. 

 

Those are the type of avoidable stupidity that we keep seem to be repeating.  Who's responsible for that?  Jay for being an idiot, Alex for being inaccurate, and to an extraordinarily less extent, CT for not just bailing and making a business decision. 

 

In the end, the facilities might not be state of the art, but this isn't about facilities.  It's about player selection and player preparation.

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59 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Setting aside why players are getting injured so often for a second, I wonder about the idea that we add a lot more guys to IR toward the end of the seasons because we’re lacking enough guys to field our 46.  For example, I believe we had 14 on IR around the Jacksonville game, but now we’re up to 20. 

 

This doesn’t change the narrative - we’re still consistently near the worst in injuries - but I do wonder if it makes things look even worse.  A domino effect, in essence.  

 

well, looking at the inactives McCoy and Reed were inactive  for the Jags game, Harris was inactive for the Titans game and Holsey and Johnson were active for the Jags but put on IR immediately  after so they were hurt there.

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42 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@ConnSKINS26

 

3. There is some dumb bad luck.  Alex breaking his leg is dumb bad luck.  Trent breaking his thumb is dumb bad luck.  Sometimes you just have unavoidable situations.  Shrug.

 

4.  I will never forgive Gruden for calling an inside pass route to CT in garbage time of the Saints game, and then Alex threw it high and outside and CT got his ribs broken. 

 

 

I'm not criticizing the above post..just documenting my rational for saying Jay played a BIG Role in getting Alex hurt. If people think thats looney..so be it.

 

I see no difference in #4 and the call made for Alex. Yea..Alex broke is leg in a "dumb bad luck" play gone BAD. It all started with a bad play/call. I don't know if the line call was blown or the rb misread the call...point is..there should have been only 1 option for the back..stay in and block the blitzer if blitzed OR go into the flat as a safety valve for Alex when you KNOW Clowney and Watt have their ears pinned back.  To try and worm your way through the scrum and try and find an opening is a BAD PLAY CALL.

 

I PREDICTED Alex would get hurt against the Texans because of Jay's play calling history (my perception of). Go read THAT prediction post.

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3 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

I'm not criticizing the above post..just documenting my rational for saying Jay played a BIG Role in getting Alex hurt. If people think thats looney..so be it.

 

I see no difference in #4 and the call made for Alex. Yea..Alex broke is leg in a "dumb bad luck" play gone BAD. It all started with a bad play/call. I don't know if the line call was blown or the rb misread the call...point is..there should have been only 1 option for the back..stay in and block the blitzer if blitzed OR go into the flat as a safety valve for Alex when you KNOW Clowney and Watt have their ears pinned back.  To try and worm your way through the scrum and try and find an opening is a BAD PLAY CALL.

 

I PREDICTED Alex would get hurt against the Texans because of Jay's play calling history (my perception of). Go read THAT prediction post.

Eh, I dunno.  That kind of thing happens. RBs pick up the wrong guy, can get confused, etc.  That's kindof football.  My bigger gripe is that I don't understand why Jay loves Byron Marshall more than Bibbs.  Marshall is the one who missed the block.

 

But, overall, the way Alex broke his leg is just dumb bad luck.  Maybe he gets hit, but the way he fell, the compound spiral fracture, that's not on Jay.  That's just bad luck. 

 

This coming from a guy who's currently taking a lot of heat for putting a lot of stuff on Jay in the Bruce Allen thread.  I'm not known as a Jay apologist in these here parts...

 

 

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3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Please, find me anyone else blaming Jay’s playcall for Alex’s broken leg.

 The timing, chemistry and a number of other intangibles are only achieved between a QB and his receivers through practice and repetition.  The QB then learns the tendencies of his receivers because he has practiced with them hard and consistently.  He comes to know his receivers.  And in part, getting units in sync, includes fielding a comfortable QB in the pocket which is only achieved with familiarity of the system. 

 

 This is ON both Alex and Jay.  Jay through his observation needed to make adjustments and Alex though communicating to his Coach honestly needed to acknowledge where he was struggling.   It was a cluster ****. It was obvious to announcers that Alex was struggling.

 

 It was a disaster from the beginning.  The only reason we stayed in games, that were low scoring was because the defense exceeded expectations.  And then reverted to the lowest common denominator as the year progressed.    

 

Things are distally related.  But I would never go as far as to say it was Jay's fault Alex broke his leg.  No one could say that.   However Alex was never comfortable in the pocket and when you put a very aggressive D line on a QB who is skittish and ill at ease to begin with, like a JJ Watt, and company, bad **** happens IMO. 

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47 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

Things are distally related.  But I would never go as far as to say it was Jay's fault Alex broke his leg.  No one could say that.   However Alex was never comfortable in the pocket and when you put a very aggressive D line on a QB who is skittish and ill at ease to begin with, like a JJ Watt, and company, bad **** happens IMO. 

Agreed, the poster I was referring to, said the playcall itself was why Alex got injured.  Which to me is insane.  The whole world saw that blitz coming a mile away, Alex didn’t and took a flukey, brutal injury as a result.

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Here's another reason to add to the pile: early byes.  Having a 7 game season followed by a 9 win season probably fares better injury-wise than a 4 game season followed by a 12 game season. Not that every team with an early bye has tons of injuries, but teams more likely to have injuries (for whatever reason) are probably likely to have even more injuries as the season progresses when their byes are so early. And no, I did not do any research so I could easily be way off lol...

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4 hours ago, carex said:

would harder practices really prevent injuries?  why wouldn't it just cause them to get hurt in practice?  And besides what if he's going easy because players are practicing hurt

 

Yeah I was thinking the same thing.  I'm having a hard time believing soft practice will result in broken legs.  I also don't put much stock in the play calling. But i gotta tell ya that link that showed we have been the league leaders in injuries in 4 straight Gruden seasons is pretty hard to ignore.  

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 Maybe I'm not thinking of something, but if it were due to light practices, wouldn't the same players get hurt in practice if they practiced or scrimmaged harder or more physically ?

 

That would indicate that this would be the effect or aftermath of the actual cause.

There are a lot of players who have been injured in the past and never have been re-injured in the same area again, so it would be difficult to point to the players who have had recurring injuries and point to practice as being the culprit, unless the player had not fully healed from his injury to begin with.

 

When Griffin was injured with his knee being twisted like a pretzel, and many were saying it would take at least a full year to recover from, but with technology he was able to recoup very quickly. Some said it was the medical advancement in surgery / post surgery and rehab that got him back on the field. Maybe this 'medical advancement' didn't have a long term prognosis in terms of re-injury, just as other players suffering serious injuries have had, so it would point to simply rushing a player back onto the field before he's fully healed.

 

This is why I look at the S&T/nutrition aspect as being the suspect. With someone like Sankal, who is in nutrition, it is him who gives players the treatment for recovery, but if his method of recovery is not in line with that of a football player, then he would in a way be giving the wrong formulation for healing as it pertains to the job the player has.  Remember, he was working with a baseball team, and a baseball player's needs are different than a football player's.

 

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18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@skins island connection Cooley outlines this, but essentially if you don’t practice how to take and give a hit, then you get hurt when it’s live.

 

If you practice proper technique, you get hurt less..

 

these guys have been playing football since high school.  That part should be known. 

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

Here's another reason to add to the pile: early byes.  Having a 7 game season followed by a 9 win season probably fares better injury-wise than a 4 game season followed by a 12 game season. Not that every team with an early bye has tons of injuries, but teams more likely to have injuries (for whatever reason) are probably likely to have even more injuries as the season progresses when their byes are so early. And no, I did not do any research so I could easily be way off lol...

 

Yeah, it wouldn't be that difficult to impliment fairly either.

Ten teams could get a bye in week eight, twelve teams get a bye in week nine and ten teams get a bye in week ten. Every teams' season would be split 7-9, 8-8 or 9-7.

 

 

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Not going full speed at practices and simply bad luck are my reasons. I think the field has looked better during the nicer days with the grass they replaced it with. Outside of Alex’s freak injury supposedly due to his foot supposedly getting stuck in the grass. The field looks much better than years past.

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Does harder practices really mean hitting and more contact?  There probably is just a lack of urgency, focus, attention to detail.  Keim mentioned a lack of tempo.  I envision a lot of joking around and lack of order.  Not really soft and a catalyst for injury.   Are other teams in full pads and hitting? 

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The biggest factor is probably signing/drafting guys with a history of injuries. Things like the Alex Smith injury are just the breaks of the game, but all the soft-tissue injuries are a sign of injury-prone guys.

 

I don't have stats, but it sure seems like serious injuries across the NFL are much more frequent than back in the day. Perhaps the dramatic increase in bigger/faster/stronger players has a lot to do with it.

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I wouldn't necessarily say the majority of our injuries were preventable but some of them.

I am now at the point where I think if our entire system were more professional our injury statistics would be more in line with the rest of the league.

 

The fact that this organization is always a circus show I believe leads to preventable injuries. 

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