Redskins Cut DJ Swearinger!

[dyst]

2 hours ago, Bang said:

well, none of that is what i said.. i did not say "this puts us on the path"...  more like,, what DO winners do in this situation?

The most successful organization over the last 20 years is ruthless when it comes to maintaining discipline.  as such they are highly disciplined, and have a thing known as the patriot way that is very much part of that discipline. And that seems to me to be a good philosophy. 

That is what my example was to illustrate. 

 

This group is constantly yelling we don't do the things these teams do..  and then when we do it turns into the Worst Thing Ever since last week's Worst Thing Ever.

 

And yes, i do think that smart tams try to emulate success. Maybe not to sit down per situation and say 'what would NE do.." but what they do is noted. it's a copycat league. Whatever works will be utilized by others.

 

I am not going to compare and contrast this move over 20 years of dysfunction, that doesn't make any sense. I agree with this move largely because i think it sends the right message, and i don't think holding on to whatever value folks think we can get is worth making that message any less clear.

 

He just went to the worst team in the league. Lets see if he sticks this time.

Any bets?

 

~Bang

Except your analogy with the Patriots included how the Patriots traded the player in question, which several of us wish the Redskins did with DJ. 

 

So if the Patriots are the barometer, then it would have been better for the Skins to trade than outright cut.

 

Also, Patriots traded Randy Moss back to the Vikings for a 3rd round pick (when they initially grabbed him for a 4th round pick). At the time Moss was constantly complaining about his contract situation to the media.

 

So yes 100%, I wish we followed the Patriot way but we didn’t. 

[Bang]

The Pats trade was during season within deadline, not a postseason deal for a guy coming up on the last yr of his deal (i think) and is going to be cut. Situationally it's entirely different in terms of how timing can affect any possible suitors.

The point of the Bellichick story was that they got rid of the man immediately for a lot less of an infraction.They do not put up with it in any way shape or form, and as a result players conform, and they have no problem attracting free agents to the most strict environment in the NFL (Folks have moaned that cutting DJ scares off potential free agents. i don't want the ones who gets scared off by this. )

Their locker room has no problems like this, that their players are all on the same page when it comes to addressing the media and any outsiders at all. Step out of line, and they get rid of you. (Randy Moss is a nice example.. that Hall of Fame players can get value.  Also should be noted that the Vikings were idiots, and ended up cutting Moss shortly after for literally complaining about the catering after Friday practice..  and then shortly after that they fired their coach. Pats took advantage of dysfunction to get value for an HOF player with a marketable connection to the Vikings. Fans liked it.)

 

 

Mostly what i read in many comments around this is that folks are just mad at everything.  There is no right way to go for fans anymore. It's difficult to try to talk about things when folks are angry about 20 years of problems and it clouds everything.

This is why i said 'it's gotta start somewhere'..   it does.  (and i think it has before this debacle) Our fan base is extremely reactive.. and vicious.

case in point.. Mason Foster.. fans attack the man personally and relentlessly.. and he makes a mistake and responds badly. Frustration boils over and he smacks back at FANS,, people with no connection and almost NO knowledge besides what they angrily perceive on their TV...  who attack him. 

Fans want him fired for lashing out in response to the fans cruelty.. and somehow equate this situation of internal insubordination to something like that.  How does that make sense?

 

I've seen people bring up Clinton Portis criticizing Zorn. And that has nothing to do with today. There is no doubt at all that under Zorn the entire team was a mess, dysfunctional. Are we supposed to stay that way because back in the day we fans didn't scream Portis should be cut? According to some fans, that somehow matters,and that yes, we should stay consistently wrong. 

 

Just anger. Fans ask me "aren't you tired of losing???"

The only way that'll ever change is if we start doing what winners do from the top on down.
Until we do something that fans don't like, and these days fans don't like anything.
Up above someone brought up Thom Loverro, instigator #1..   he dives in on "the Redskins are OK with domestic abuse" due to Foster. And it's ridiculous. He isn't anything UNTIL he clears investigations. (Nevermind there's a LOT of questions around the incident.) If he fails the investigations. If charges are pressed, well THEN we will find out what the Redskins stance is. (Bet he gets waived. Any takers?)
But if he DOES get cleared, we made a fast move to pick up a quality young player and upgrade the defense.. a good move... but it has no chance to be a good move, because even if he is totally exonerated and Roger goodell dances naked with "Reuben foster didn't do anything" written on his ass, it won't matter. Cops could come out with video of him praying in church at the time of the incident and it doesn't matter. Loverro has his narrative, and so does everyone else.  The Redskins are OK with wife beaters. 

How can anyone talk football with a perpetually angry mob? 
(This likely colored my bad attitude yesterday. it is very frustrating.)

 

Anyway, to DJ, The base of our argument is over his value. I don't think we can get anything when we're allowed to trade him, which i think would be March 1...  by then our intentions are well known, as are the intentions of most other teams in terms of targeted free agents, draft options and positional needs.. Do we think a bidding war over DJ the AlwaysFired will develop? 
I don't. And if there is not, then anyone would be a fool to trade even the ham sandwich mentioned a few pages ago. i think there is more value in letting the locker room know who the leaders are. 

 

~Bang

 

 

[skins island connection]

 The organization needed a way to vent their anger at how the season went belly-up.

 Had the team been in contention for a playoff spot, DJ would have still been here; maybe they would have called him into the office to talk to him but they wouldn't have let him go.

 

That just says the powers-that-be has more of an ego than competence.  Nero and Caesar are slow clapping right now at the decision.

[fordranger76]

 

[wit33]

Ready for the big boys on the line to take over leadership. 

[dyst]

29 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Ready for the big boys on the line to take over leadership. 

Allen + Payne yep. They are  young, but a time will come where they can tell people follow us or GTFO.

[Skinsinparadise]

Interesting that the Raiders were among the teams putting in a claim for Swearinger. I figure Jay and Jon talk.

 

As for Smoot saying DJ was only close to Brown. I call that as BS. I've listened to Smoot enough to know he is not an insider. Heard multiple beat guys say Swearinger was the leader in the secondary, save perhaps a checkered relationship with Norman.

 

Hoffman said today Swearinget been looked up to by the young players in the secondary might have been part of the reason for his release- they didn't want the young players further influenced by the accusation that their coaches aren't hot.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

23 hours ago, Bang said:

Jamie collins,,  up and coming linebacker drafted by the Patriots made a comment in the press about his contract. said he wanted to be paid like Vonn Miller.

Once.

The next day he was a Cleveland Brown. Bellichick traded him for that ONE comment to the worst team he could find,   for...   a compensatory pick the Browns didn't even know they 'd be awarded yet..  basically he said 'if you are granted the pick, we'll take it. If not. keep him anyway."

for one comment.

 

ever hear the pats players in press conferences?

Dull. Boring. Scripted. 

Usually after another win.

This 'discipline' stuff seems to work for them.

Every year this fanbase screams that our FO never does what winners do.

Until we do... then they scream it's dysfunctional.

 

Winners don't put up with this. 

 

~Bang

 

 

 

Well, that's what you get when you have a competent front office with a winning culture, future HOF head coach that has won multiple super bowls and the GOAT at QB.  We have none of that.

 

That said, I think the majority of fans that are ticked off about cutting him are sick of this front office doing stupid things.  More so in not taking the approach a well run organization would have.  Which is suspend him the final game of the season, let the situation blow over and go into the off-season and try to trade him and get something in return.  If no team wants to trade for him, fine, then make the decision to either retain his services or cut him.  

 

A lot of us are also frustrated the way they handled the situation and the timing of it.  This was his 3rd or 4th time (which is it, I keep seeing both on here in various responses) running his mouth to the media and pissing off the coaches.  The fact that it got to the 3rd or 4th time is 100% unacceptable, imo. 

 

A good head coach would implement a strict media policy with the players (e.g. Bellichick) prior to the regular season and review that with the players every year and clearly define what the consequences for violating that would be.  And after the first violation, punish the player.  Not wait until the 3rd or 4th time it happened while you let other players spout off too and did nothing about it at all.  

 

EDIT:

And your post highlights exactly why some of us are ticked off, Bellichick didn't put up with that and traded the player for a draft pick, we just cut him without trying to get anything in return.  Also, they didn't trade him to the Browns with the expectations that if they didn't get the compensatory pick they got nothing.  It was for a 3rd round compensatory pick and if that was not awarded they would get the Browns 4th round pick in that upcoming draft.  

 

 

[Jumbo]

 

to the topic---

 

imo it was another in an endless line of dumb move by a ****-eating stupid crapfest of an org run by two guys and a staff, overall, who can't get out of our lives fast enough. guys like rufus and SIP and a couple others have made the same points i'd make and i'm not one compelled to repetition.

 

this is a suckass time indeed for 'skins fans and it's hard to see any real chance at long-term positive change as long as dan owns the team. i really have no idea of what fans can do other than to call in to all the shows etc. and boycott and stop contributing any $$$ in any way.

 

now to board stuff---

 

ya'all know how harshly (cursing them vehemently included) critical i have been forever on dan  and his long list of accomplices to disaster, and certainly bruce in recent years. i also won't take a back seat to anyone claiming passionate commitment to the redskins except maybe pez and huly, but even they have to do it a few more decades.

 

obviously, most folks here are long time suffering redskins fans. i don't recognize people who post more extreme stuff (note the words in bold) repeatedly while having an extended meltdown (including and being up in other poster's face with extra pissy attitude) as somehow "more passionate" or "more die-hard" as much as they're more self-indulgent. 

 

that said, and though only one is mentioned next, all should pay attention:

 

@joeken24

 

tk told you to take a chill pill so your head wouldn't explode and you went on a great deal more without any change. so now you can just take a voluntary break from posting until thursday or i can handle it for you and it will be longer. 

meanwhile, hang in there you poor lost fools who are fans of this team (which makes us family, and keeping in tradition, dysfunctional as all get out).  but if you find do somehow yourself willing and able to put this team behind you now, or at some point in the future, know that this longtime diehard passionate redskins fan will never see that choice as anything other than highly intelligent and emotionally mature---two states of being that frequently elude me.

[theTruthTeller]

4 hours ago, Bang said:

I am not going to compare and contrast this move over 20 years of dysfunction, that doesn't make any sense. I agree with this move largely because i think it sends the right message, and i don't think holding on to whatever value folks think we can get is worth making that message any less clear.

 

~Bang

I'm afraid that the message that the players will be receiving is this:

• if you think the team would be better if it worked harder in practice, then STFU;
• if you see something on tape that could help the team, then STFU;
• if you're tired of losing close games, then STFU; and
• if you're tired of being a Redskin and want out of your contract, go on a radio show and tell the truth.

 

Why would anyone bother doing anything but the minimum on this team?

[Boss_Hogg]

4 NFL teams in 5 years raises a lot of red flags. I know we suck and have the most dysfunctional front office in the league but we may have been right about this one. 

 

3 of his former head coaches are no bull**** hard-asses (Bruce Arians, Lovie Smith, and Bill O'Brien). 

 

Check this little gem from 2014:

https://thebiglead.com/2018/11/13/its-been-4-years-and-d-j-swearinger-is-still-mad-at-bill-obrien/

 

If we want to change the culture then guys like DJ need to leave. We also need to get rid of norman, zach brown, and mason foster. 

 

 

[SoulSkin]

Nobody knows for sure what they might have been able to get back in value, if anything. I think they definitely could have gotten something. If you suspend him and let it settle down a little in to the offseason, you can see if anything can be salvaged or recouped. If he runs his mouth more, he's not doing himself any favors. There's still some leverage in that he has no power over where he goes, if you have his rights. We'll never know for sure. One thing I did see that made a little bit of sense (just someone theorizing-can't remember who) was that Jay may want to move on from Manusky, but can't allow the team to think a player had some influence in that decision. Like a lot of the articles, etc. intimate, this incident was probably the straw that broke the camel's back. I still don't agree with it, but that makes it make little bit more sense to me, if that was part of Jay's thinking.

 

-- I loved the earlier tweet someone posted where Smoot is quoted, they make sure to type out 'er'body'. I immediately heard him saying that. haha

 

[Ghost of]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

 That just says the powers-that-be has more of an ego than competence.  Nero and Caesar are slow clapping right now at the decision.

 

Whoa, watch out with lumping in Julius with Nero if you're talking about ego over competence.  He could have killed his enemies but offered clementia.  If anything, he should have killed them and eliminated those who were going to literally stab him in the back.

 

Maybe you mean Nero and Caligula (or Commodus)? 

[hogdirty]

3 minutes ago, Boss_Hogg said:

4 NFL teams in 5 years raises a lot of red flags. I know we suck and have the most dysfunctional front office in the league but we may have been right about this one. 

 

3 of his former head coaches are no bull**** hard-asses (Bruce Arians, Lovie Smith, and Bill O'Brien). 

 

Check this little gem from 2014:

https://thebiglead.com/2018/11/13/its-been-4-years-and-d-j-swearinger-is-still-mad-at-bill-obrien/

 

If we want to change the culture then guys like DJ need to leave. We also need to get rid of norman, zach brown, and mason foster. 

 

 

 

Well, one of those 4 teams took him back after he choose to come here in free agency.  SAME OWNER, SAME GM

 

Two of those head coaches were fired and only one he had bad terms with (per your link). Notice Arians and Smith didn't have these issues with him. He even mentions how much appreciated playing under Kubiak, Wade Phillips, and Vance Joseph. O'brien comes in and things transition it's understandable.

 

What I'm waiting for is someone to come in here and explain why if he was such a red flag why did Jay Gruden's OWN BROTHER put in a claim for him??? 

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

 

Thom Loverro had a nice article regarding the kind of message this is sending. You can find it in BHRBN.

 

But basically I can sum it up like this:

- Beat a women and charged for it? That's OK for Redskins' FO.

- Complain about Fans and Organisation? That's OK for Redskins' FO

- Get arrested for DUI and assault? That's OK for Redskins' FO.

- Complain about playcall? That's your ticket out of here.

 

I could be ok with the move as well if it wasn't lost in a sea of total dysfunctioning. We're signing Reuben Foster a few days after his arrest, then we cut Swearinger because he complained once too many? That doesn't go along very well...

 

Want to be taken seriously?

Then cut Foster

Cut Norman as well for his comments about fans and such.

Cut Nicholson (thought they did something here, while Godell bailed the Redskins' FO on Foster's case).

Cut Mason Foster as well.

 

Then OK, your Swearinger move makes sense.

 

 

So, I get what you’re saying, and there is some merit to it, but here’s my issue...

 

This wasn’t the first time for Swearinger.  He didn’t get cut for calling out coaches to the media, he got cut for calling out coaches to the media after being told not to.  

 

if Nicholson gets a second offense (for a DUI or fighting), then he better get cut.  

 

If Norman and Foster were told not to vent about the fans (forgetting the fact that complaining about fans is probably not the way to get fans on your side), then the team is justified in cutting them if they do it again.  

 

As for the whistleblower factor, people might be (and usually are) justified in blowing the whistle, but getting punished just comes with the territory.  The whistleblower knows it, the public knows it, and the powers that be know it.  

 

As I said before, my issue is not the punishment, but rather 1) the optics/timing, and 2) the idea that what Swearinger said (lax practices in particular) may be, and likely is, true.  

 

 

On a related note, I’ve long thought that uptempo practices are such a boon the team.  You can add so many more reps per practice, which could be especially crucial for new players to the team.  Imagine Alex Smith with 30-50% more reps over TC and during the year.  Imagine how much more comfortable he could have been with his targets and with the plays.  

 

Or, forget the qb... imagine getting backups more reps (when starters take most of the reps).  Imagine how much better off your depth could be.  How much better you could withstand injuries.  

It’s a blown opportunity if you don’t take advantage of that, particularly if 1) you’re limited by the CBA and 2) your practices are ‘lax’.  Ugh.  

[Boss_Hogg]

27 minutes ago, hogdirty said:

 

Well, one of those 4 teams took him back after he choose to come here in free agency.  SAME OWNER, SAME GM

 

Two of those head coaches were fired and only one he had bad terms with (per your link). Notice Arians and Smith didn't have these issues with him. He even mentions how much appreciated playing under Kubiak, Wade Phillips, and Vance Joseph. O'brien comes in and things transition it's understandable.

 

What I'm waiting for is someone to come in here and explain why if he was such a red flag why did Jay Gruden's OWN BROTHER put in a claim for him??? 

 

who knows...perhaps to **** with DJ some more? 

 

This is what DJ had to say about the Bucs and Lovie Smith:

 

Quote

 

After Swearinger talked to the media throng in the locker room, Joe chatted with him 1-on-1 at his locker. Joe’s a Bucs history guy and Joe’s goal was to find out whether Swearinger put more blame on Jason Licht or Lovie Smith for his departure.

Quote

“I’d tell Bucs fans I never got my fair chance here in Tampa. Once I was the fifth-string safety here in Tampa,” Swearinger said. “Whatever reason that was, you know, but I learned from that. I learned from that. I seen the other side from, you know, starting two years in Houston and then coming here and playing a couple of games and sitting on the bench. I definitely learned the other side of things. I wouldn’t change it for the world. But you know, [the Bucs] lost a good player and they seen that today.”

Quote

Let’s just say Lovie might not want to run into Swearinger in a dark alley.

http://www.joebucsfan.com/2018/11/d-j-swearinger-took-victory-lap/

 

 

SO DJ has bad blood for Bill O'Brien, Lovie Smith, and Jay Gruden. Remains to be seen what's going to happen for the new HC of the lowly Arizona cardinals in 2019

[Reaper Skins]

The most enjoyable part of being a Redskins fan these days is the ego boost you get from knowing you are smarter and could do a better job managing the team than those in power.

 

I wish i was kidding.

[@DCGoldPants]

"for whatever reason" 

[hogdirty]

14 minutes ago, Boss_Hogg said:

 

who knows...perhaps to **** with DJ some more? 

 

This is what DJ had to say about the Bucs and Lovie Smith:

 

 

SO DJ has bad blood for Bill O'Brien, Lovie Smith, and Jay Gruden. Remains to be seen what's going to happen for the new HC of the lowly Arizona cardinals in 2019

 

I don't get that. Mess with him some more? What does that even mean.  If these sorry coaches want to play mind games with players then DJ shouldn't apologize for the way he is.

 

We have been having disagreements with coaches sinse the Lavar and Joe Gibbs days. More player disagreement with this coach more than ever almost even more than Zorn. Someone posted the names of the productive players who request trades under Gruden (Garcon, Jackson, Kirk ...). I understand keeping things in house or airing grievances at the appropriate time like London Fletcher/Hasslett, but something about releasing a player who wants the team to work harder and be better will never sit right with me

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 hours ago, Bang said:

The Pats trade was during season within deadline, not a postseason deal for a guy coming up on the last yr of his deal (i think) and is going to be cut. Situationally it's entirely different in terms of how timing can affect any possible suitors.

He was in the last year of his contract and was dealt to a non-contending team, btw. Cleveland dealt for him with the idea they could sign him omg-term and he could help in the future, with the thought that they could recoup a comp pick if not. The pressure of the trade deadline had nothing to do with that deal or the price he fetched.

[ThomasRoane]

As a coach myself I recognize that there comes a point where one player just sucks too much of your energy.  We all know people like that too.  They're called emotional vampires.  If DJ had been playing perfect, lights out football in every game I could see why he might be upset.  Let's be honest, he made a lot of great plays but also made a lot of mistakes.  A coach can over look those if the player is part of the team and helping to keep everyone pointed in the same direction.  But a player who is constantly throwing coaches under the bus and yet making obvious mistakes himself has to go. 

 

This from a poster who has been consistent in taking every opportunity to slam Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen.  (I want them both gone!)  I don't believe Manusky was Jay's third choice - probably 4th.  Remember, a lot of DC's passed up that job and rightfully so.  With the lack of talent on D and poor management it was a crap job.  Much better now with the young talent and since we know Jay will be back (because Snyder can't throw enough $ at the next guy) then I would swallow my pride this time (see the Wade Phillips mistake) and get a top notch DC with a reputation for success.  Preferably a 4-3 guy and stop dreaming that they can be a good 3-4 team. 

 

Here are my two reasons for why DJ needed to be cut.

 

1) The Redskins are not a good man team!!!!  Holy crap! For a guy who says he watches a lot of film I wonder what the hell he was looking at!?!?  Since the Colt's game in week two teams have been torching the Redskins with mesh routes (pick plays)!!! They're not a good man team!  They're a decent zone team but they don't have the backers to match up with a decent TE or RB.  If the mesh routes weren't working the QB would look for whomever ZB or Foster were covering and attack them.  It was laughably simple!  For all their bravado no one on this team can cover well man to man.  Norman doesn't have the speed to match up with an elite receiver.  Moreau can't keep his hands off the receiver.  Stro has potential but rookies make rookie mistakes.  DJ got torched by Engram vs the gmen and every other decent TE he had to play.  Haha? Don't make me laugh.  He is just now showing that he can make a tackle again.  If you wanna be pissed at management then be pissed that they let Fuller go who is now one of the top DB's in the NFL for pass break ups.  Should have offered up DJ in hindsight.

 

2)  DJ BLEW COVERAGE ON THE GO AHEAD TD VS THE TITANS!!!!  Holy crap man!  The gall for a player to throw coaches under the bus after he decided that he was going to "improvise" and slide the DE inside (the man who originally had contain) so he could be the hero and stop Henry in the backfield; only to vacate his responsibility for pass coverage in case a TE slipped into the end zone (that was certainly not the MLB's responsibility) and give up the winning TD.  (Oh, and let's not forget that it was the long crossing routes that defeated man coverage that allowed Gabbert to get down the field so quickly to begin with.)  Then DJ thinks he has the right to trash the coaches for not calling more man?!?!?  Really? 

 

Sorry, but DJ was given plenty of rope and he hung himself with it.  I will fault the FO and coaches for a lot of dumb mistakes but getting rid of a cancer was not a mistake. 

[Boss_Hogg]

15 minutes ago, hogdirty said:

 

I don't get that. Mess with him some more? What does that even mean.  If these sorry coaches want to play mind games with players then DJ shouldn't apologize for the way he is.

 

it was a tongue in cheek response

[Bang]

10 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

He was in the last year of his contract and was dealt to a non-contending team, btw. Cleveland dealt for him with the idea they could sign him omg-term and he could help in the future, with the thought that they could recoup a comp pick if not. The pressure of the trade deadline had nothing to do with that deal or the price he fetched.

It isn't the pressure of the deadline I'm mentioning it for, just the timing.  They made their move when a move could be made. We can't do anything for several months. By then I think the value is nil.
(I do know he was ready to finish his rookie deal, which precipitated his Vonn Miller Money comment.. which basically made the Pats decision on him easy based on their standards.

 

If we were still within the deadline, i'd be much more in line with you guys. Whole different scenario then.

 

~Bang

[Rufus T Firefly]

15 minutes ago, Bang said:

It isn't the pressure of the deadline I'm mentioning it for, just the timing.  They made their move when a move could be made. We can't do anything for several months. By then I think the value is nil.
(I do know he was ready to finish his rookie deal, which precipitated his Vonn Miller Money comment.. which basically made the Pats decision on him easy based on their standards.

 

If we were still within the deadline, i'd be much more in line with you guys. Whole different scenario then.

 

~Bang

There's no reason to think his value decreases in a couple of months. 

 

We know he was claimed by at least 3 teams, and those 3 were non-contenders who wanted him for next year, and were willing to take on his contract to do so.