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Trump Border Wall Post-Shutdown Discussion (Wall-Fight)


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I don't mean this as a shot at those that have been furloughed.  But one result of this whole debacle is we as a society need to focus more on budgeting and personal financial emergency preparing.  I'm sure most of us have heard that you should have X number of months (I've heard 3, 6, 9, 12, etc) of your normal income in savings in case of emergency.  The more stories I hear, the more it sounds like this isn't commonplace.  And it really should be.

 

*Yes, I know not everyone can do this, different people have different circumstances, blah blah blah.  This isn't a defense of the shutdown or blame towards those furloughed.  Just a general statement of concern.  Now commence flaming me.

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No money for walls - what does it mean?

 

Trump has multiple constituencies one them is the alt-right/racists.  I would say the "Wall" is the most important issue to that group, however other groups buy into it as well.  The Dems have taken the position that since the racists want a wall,  building a wall is racist and have staked their opposition to building walls on the border on principal. 

 

Okay here is the problem - we already have walls on the border, they are just tools within the overall toolkit used for border security. We have spent money building them on the border for years but given finite resources, priorities and requirements they don't exist everywhere.  Will the Dems opposition create a position that walls can't be built or used in that toolkit anymore?

 

What frustrates me is confronting the President over the wrong issues.  Confronting him over methods to stem illegal border crossings? That is what they planted their flag on?  There are far bigger and more important issues to stake everything on than a single method (From a wider toolkit) that is used for border control.

Edited by nonniey
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3 minutes ago, nonniey said:

No money for walls - what does it mean?

 

Trump has multiple constituencies one them is the alt-right/racists.  I would say the "Wall" is the most important issue to that group, however other groups buy into it as well.  The Dems have taken the position that since the racists want a wall,  building a wall is racist and have staked their opposition to building walls on the border on principal. 

 

Okay here is the problem - we already have walls on the border, they are just tools within the overall toolkit used for border security. We have spent money building them on the border for years but given finite resources, priorities and requirements they don't exist everywhere.  Will the Dems opposition create a position that walls can't be built or used in that toolkit anymore?

 

What frustrates me is confronting the President over the wrong issues.  Confronting him over methods to stem illegal border crossings? That is what they planted their flag on?  There are far bigger and more important issues to stake everything on than a single method (From a wider toolkit) that is used for border control.

 

Are you seriously pinning this on Democrats. A singular focus on the dumb wall is a creation of Donald Trump and the GOP. 

 

He has been offered more funding for all the things that actually do provide border security in the 21st century. 

 

The wall should absolutely not be built with US taxpayer money because: 

 

1. The GOP a explicitly promised that new wall funding will come from Mexico

 

2. We have technologies that make a border wall absolutely ****ing dumb. 

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6 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I don't mean this as a shot at those that have been furloughed.  But one result of this whole debacle is we as a society need to focus more on budgeting and personal financial emergency preparing.  I'm sure most of us have heard that you should have X number of months (I've heard 3, 6, 9, 12, etc) of your normal income in savings in case of emergency.  The more stories I hear, the more it sounds like this isn't commonplace.  And it really should be.

 

*Yes, I know not everyone can do this, different people have different circumstances, blah blah blah.  This isn't a defense of the shutdown or blame towards those furloughed.  Just a general statement of concern.  Now commence flaming me.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2019/01/11/live-paycheck-to-paycheck-government-shutdown/#58c4ce24f10b

 

78% Of Workers Live Paycheck To Paycheck

 

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I'm a Dem.  I don't think the wall is racist.  I think the wall is a waste of money entirely for the purpose of appeasing Trump's ego, and shouldn't be funded.

 

I also think Trump got his ass kicked in the most recent election and is in no position to demand things.  

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oh hell, my eyes ache from rollin' em.......

 

The sticking point is that Trump got dissed by mean girls on Fox and now has to man up to show 'em he's not a wimp, THAT is the major malfunction behind the the whole vanity wall fiasco

 

Quote

The Dems have taken the position that since the racists want a wall,  building a wall is racist

 

My poor eyes, they may pop right outta my skull...........

 

He DEMANDS 5.7 billion NOW, specifically for the wall, this isn't the cost, it is the first installment, and if he gets his way with this tantrum he'll be shuttin **** down every other week

 

This has nothing to do with border security or immigration or his delusional caravan or anything real, this is a mean spirited little man holding his breath to get his way. The facile attempts to spin it off into something else would be amusing if they weren't so pathetically weak

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5 minutes ago, nonniey said:

 

Nice article detailing fencing and immigration negotiations over the past two administrations.

 

Completely irrelevant to your fallacious assertion.  

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2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Nope.  Try again. 

 

 

 
Quote

 

For example, here are some findings from the survey:

  • Nearly one in 10 workers making $100,000+ live paycheck to paycheck
 

The survey also found that 32% of the nearly 3,500 full-time workers surveyed use a budget and only 56% save $100 or less a month.

 

 

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1 minute ago, twa said:

For example, here are some findings from the survey:

  • Nearly one in 10 workers making $100,000+ live paycheck to paycheck.

 

 

I lived paycheck to paycheck until i got to about $200,000.  Ever heard of student loans?  I'm honestly surprised it's less than 10%.  Has nothing to do with budgeting poorly.  

 

Quote

The survey also found that 32% of the nearly 3,500 full-time workers surveyed use a budget and only 56% save $100 or less a month.

 

It's axiomatic that you aren't going to save when you live paycheck to paycheck.  None of that supports your statement.  

 

So....try again?

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I have savings that will last me around 3 months. If NASA doesn't open back up at that time, I don't know what I'll do. I had more savings a few months ago, but adopted a dog that needed surgery that cost around $5,000. I am really worried. But, I am not as bad off as many people. My wife and I have been contacting Doug Jones and Richard Shelby every day. Doug Jones's office knew my wife when she called today.

 

Trump doesn't care about us. He just wants to get that wall so he doesn't look stupid. The Republicans could put more pressure on McConnell as well, but don't see that happening until big business starts losing money and they start putting pressure on the Republicans.

 

Yesterday, Delta said that they were going to lose 25 million this month alone.

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34 minutes ago, nonniey said:

No money for walls - what does it mean?

 

Trump has multiple constituencies one them is the alt-right/racists.  I would say the "Wall" is the most important issue to that group, however other groups buy into it as well.  The Dems have taken the position that since the racists want a wall,  building a wall is racist and have staked their opposition to building walls on the border on principal. 

 

Okay here is the problem - we already have walls on the border, they are just tools within the overall toolkit used for border security. We have spent money building them on the border for years but given finite resources, priorities and requirements they don't exist everywhere.  Will the Dems opposition create a position that walls can't be built or used in that toolkit anymore?

 

What frustrates me is confronting the President over the wrong issues.  Confronting him over methods to stem illegal border crossings?

The wall is racist... and stupid.

 

We do not have walls currently. We have fencing in high traffic areas and in some spots, vehicular barriers.

 

Was a wall ever part of the conversation before Trump? Do you think he Got that idea after consulting with defense and border security experts or do you suspect it’s just another chunk of nonsense in his mouth diahrea?

 

What do you think about that 2013 immigration reform bill that the GOP killed as part of their coordinated effort to keep anything from getting done during the Obama administration?

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19 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

The wall is racist... and stupid.

 

We do not have walls currently. We have fencing in high traffic areas and in some spots, vehicular barriers.

 

Was a wall ever part of the conversation before Trump? Do you think he Got that idea after consulting with defense and border security experts or do you suspect it’s just another chunk of nonsense in his mouth diahrea?

 

What do you think about that 2013 immigration reform bill that the GOP killed as part of their coordinated effort to keep anything from getting done during the Obama administration?

Line 1  - Addressed in my post.

 

Lines 2-3  -You're pitching softballs.

 

Line 4 - Idiot hardliners in the house.

Edited by nonniey
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I said it 4 weeks ago and it still applies. The GOP will end up owning this shutdown (as they should since they are responsible for it).

 

If Nov 2018 was a tsunami, I'd hate to see the voter anger that's going to build up in the next 21 months. 

 

36 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I lived paycheck to paycheck until i got to about $200,000.  Ever heard of student loans?  I'm honestly surprised it's less than 10%.  Has nothing to do with budgeting poorly.  

 

 

It's axiomatic that you aren't going to save when you live paycheck to paycheck.  None of that supports your statement.  

 

So....try again?

 

You mean you didn't get a small $70 million loan from the pops when you got out of your free ride at school. Amateur.

 

Btw I always wondered where this 3-4 months of income savings idea comes from. I'd suspect it comes from a time where you could work a part time summer job and then pay for your entire school year and not graduate 50-200k in debt. When minimum wage was somewhat liveable and hadn't stagnated against inflation for 30 years. When...

Edited by The Evil Genius
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42 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Was a wall ever part of the conversation before Trump? Do you think he Got that idea after consulting with defense and border security experts or do you suspect it’s just another chunk of nonsense in his mouth diahrea?

 

I have read reports that Trump's advisors were trying to come up with a way to keep him on message about immigration, and they realized that getting him to talk about building a wall was a way to do that. It ended up being a big applause line.

 

Feel free to draw appropriate conclusions about his competence, maturity, and psychological profile. I certainly have.

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The Wall is a waste of money and is ineffective for the purpose of what Trump wants it for.  The Dems have offered funding for other methods of border security so the narrative that the Dems want an open border with no checks & balances on immigrants trying to get into the country is bogus.   The Wall is merely a symbol at this point. The right wing seem to be big on symbolism over substance, flag lapel pins, the flag itself, chanting "USA USA USA" at political rallies, & now the wall.  I bet none of them care that just about every expert has said the wall is a waste of time, money, & resources, they just like the idea that the wall appears as a big FU to the brown folks south of the border.  He promised it during the campaign, it was stupid then and it is stupid now, but the far right of the party who make up 90% of conservative media, which Trump obviously listens to religiously, is hammering away at him for not having it built.  It is obvious this method is working and now Trump is throwing  tantrum.   The money Trump is asking for now is not nearly enough for this stupid wall, he will ask for more in the future, then more, and more.  Are we to expect, and accept that Trump is justified in shutting the gov't down every single time he doesn't get funding for a single item?

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I don't mean this as a shot at those that have been furloughed.  But one result of this whole debacle is we as a society need to focus more on budgeting and personal financial emergency preparing.  I'm sure most of us have heard that you should have X number of months (I've heard 3, 6, 9, 12, etc) of your normal income in savings in case of emergency.  The more stories I hear, the more it sounds like this isn't commonplace.  And it really should be.

 

*Yes, I know not everyone can do this, different people have different circumstances, blah blah blah.  This isn't a defense of the shutdown or blame towards those furloughed.  Just a general statement of concern.  Now commence flaming me.

 

If I lost my job today I would be ultra ****ed. No way past a month without dipping into my savings or cashing out the 401k or cashing out my fidelity (which comes at a ****ING 60% PENALTY!?!?@?@?). 

 

I could do that if I had to. But **** you twice (not you, you sexy beast) if you think I would be willing to do any of that because the ****ing government is using me as a pawn in their bull****. I worked hard for all of that. Hell I'm losing about a grand a month to savings just so I can get the house I want. If I lose ALL that thanks to the government you will absolutely be seeing my name in that mass shooting thread. I

 

I'm not really disagreeing with you at all I guess. But **** the government for being so terrible that this is a thing now. 

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