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Trump Border Wall Post-Shutdown Discussion (Wall-Fight)

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37 minutes ago, visionary said:
 

 

 

 

But Romney wrote an op-ed!!! 

 

This is why the reaction to Romney's strong words for Trump were ****ing hilarious. Just another spineless politician. 

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1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That's funny, but that's not what I go to the news for : )

 

Give Chris Hays credit, then, as he cut the dude off and said it had nothing to do with what they were talking about. 

 

I love the ****. I think we should be as open and honest as possible about how terrible these people are. 

 

I'll also never be let on live television if they know what's good for them lol

 

 

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Did you see the Campaign Finance Reform bill the House passed as soon as they got in that Senate wouldn't even look at?  I almost got emotional knowing that will be inevitable once Dems get back both chambers and he presidency, I think they get at least that, I just don't know when they will get the numbers they need to take down Citizens United:

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/30/18118158/house-democrats-anti-corruption-bill-hr-1-pelosi

 

 

I had NOT seen this. Thanks for linking it!!

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35 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Give Chris Hays credit, then, as he cut the dude off and said it had nothing to do with what they were talking about. 

 

I love the ****. I think we should be as open and honest as possible about how terrible these people are. 

 

I'll also never be let on live television if they know what's good for them lol

 

 

What you're talking about is called political satire.  When i watch something like BBC or Al-Jezzera, it reminds me how bad its gotten we go to our comedians for the news and our news for comedy : )

 

35 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I had NOT seen this. Thanks for linking it!!

 

You're very welcome, sir, and rest my case :ols:

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Rick Wilson was the guy that was talking about Miller. He's pretty funny and was a former Republican that wrote the book Everything that Trump touches, dies. 

 

He likes to get a little graphic. None of it worse that what 45 says. 

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10 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Bruh, I've given up on my dream on working for DHS until I can confirm we got adults running the government again, not just democrats, but actual adults.  This is why its so important to be having the convo about how to stop future shutdowns by automatically reverting to previous funding until a new one is agreed on, otherwise the braindrain will be real and we're going to feel it.

The brain drain is real, it's been going on for years. Four of the past ten years salaries have been frozen. Shutdowns. Hiring freezes. Talk of gutting benefits. Government workers get paid substantially less than their private industry counterparts, job security and benefits used to make up for that. No more. We have lost a month of scientific research, really more considering how many experiments etc have been ruined. I'm honestly starting to think part of the motivation here is the destruction of the Government.

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2 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

The brain drain is real, it's been going on for years. Four of the past ten years salaries have been frozen. Shutdowns. Hiring freezes. Talk of gutting benefits. Government workers get paid substantially less than their private industry counterparts, job security and benefits used to make up for that. No more. We have lost a month of scientific research, really more considering how many experiments etc have been ruined. I'm honestly starting to think part of the motivation here is the destruction of the Government.

 

I wonder too, we have a cabal that runs on YouTube conspiracy theories and rejects anyone with actual education or training, is this their way to root out the Deep State? Give the trog army govt jobs as replacements to bind their loyalties because you know they will simply take that path of least resistance and do whatever they're told, indifferent and unaware of the consequences. Hell, this is essentially what the Senate Rs are already doing with the judiciary.

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BTW it looks like I was wrong about the votes tomorrow, I assumed Schumer and McConnell had agreed to vote for cloture for both proposals but reporting I am seeing is that they just agreed to allow votes for cloture. This seems odd to me though because McConnell has complete peower over that in my understanding.

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I know this is mostly sarcastic. But it's also kind of brilliant and would never happen. Opinion piece by some political talk radio guy/comedian (meaning I never heard of him before)

 

Nancy Pelosi should negotiate with Ann Coulter 

 

Imagine if Pelosi/Schumer publicly invited Coulter and Rush to a meeting with no cameras to talk about border security and the shutdown. Didn't invite anyone for the admin or the GOP. Didn't say "We want to talk them because they are the ones calling the shots". Instead said "We're at an impasse and are investigating all possible paths to opening the Government".

 

1. Coulter/Rush would never accept. Mainly because it wouldn't be on camera. But also because they are too paranoid.

2. The Admin and Mitch being marginalized like this would kind of be amazing.

 

Nothing serious about this point. Just a Wed morning "hehe".

 

 

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1 hour ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

BTW it looks like I was wrong about the votes tomorrow, I assumed Schumer and McConnell had agreed to vote for cloture for both proposals but reporting I am seeing is that they just agreed to allow votes for cloture. This seems odd to me though because McConnell has complete peower over that in my understanding.

 

As I understand it (is there some rule that says the Senate can't publish their rules, so we can all do less guessing?) , with this new kind of what I call "silent filibuster", the way it ends is, they bring the bill to the floor.  

 

If it gets 60 votes, then it's considered both clotured and passed.  No further vote is necessary.  

 

If it gets less than 60, then the bill is rejected, and cannot be brought up again.  

 

That's how we get these "60 votes required to pass" bills.  

 

So the votes are both for cloture and for passage.  

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1 hour ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

The brain drain is real, it's been going on for years. Four of the past ten years salaries have been frozen. Shutdowns. Hiring freezes. Talk of gutting benefits. Government workers get paid substantially less than their private industry counterparts, job security and benefits used to make up for that. No more. We have lost a month of scientific research, really more considering how many experiments etc have been ruined. I'm honestly starting to think part of the motivation here is the destruction of the Government.

 

This is why special council starting to get on my nerves.  If they believe he's a direct threat to the country, we need to know that NOW.  I'll be damned if they take due diligent to find out here's either gonna finish his term or shoulda been in jail months ago.

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5 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

As I understand it (is there some rule that says the Senate can't publish their rules, so we can all do less guessing?) , with this new kind of what I call "silent filibuster", the way it ends is, they bring the bill to the floor.  

 

If it gets 60 votes, then it's considered both clotured and passed.  No further vote is necessary.  

 

If it gets less than 60, then the bill is rejected, and cannot be brought up again.  

 

That's how we get these "60 votes required to pass" bills.  

 

So the votes are both for cloture and for passage.  

Right, I get that. But why would Schumer and McConnell make a deal for putting both up to a 60 vote threshold if McConnell solely controls what gets voted on and neither is likely to proceed beyond cloture? That's why I thought the deal was to pass both through cloture and put them up to the 50 vote passage test.

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you make deals to get cooperation elsewhere, such as judicial nominations or funding pet programs

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13 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

Right, I get that. But why would Schumer and McConnell make a deal for putting both up to a 60 vote threshold if McConnell solely controls what gets voted on and neither is likely to proceed beyond cloture? That's why I thought the deal was to pass both through cloture and put them up to the 50 vote passage test.

 

Because it's all political theater. McConnell will allow some Rs to vote for Schumer's bill to give them some cover to try and hold onto their seats in '20. Then Scumer will deny the Rs enough votes to pass theirs and McC can show his fealty to Trump and continue to blame the shutdown on the Dems. Neither one accomplishes anything tangible but both see it as a PR victory.

 

Meanwhile people face evictions.

 

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The way I understand Senate rules are that without objection, a bill can only be voted on within 3 days. I think McConnell and Schumer agreed with their caucuses not to object (ie filibuster) to either bill so the votes would happen on Thursday (its been awhile since I dug into the Congressional Record).

Trump's bill is voted on first. The the bill to open government up for 3 weeks is voted 2nd.

I don't know why Congressional watchers think opening up government will fail. The first bill allows Senators to vote for the wall, thus displaying creds for the MAGA, "I voted for a wall" crowd. It will allow rhem to hammer that home in 2020. The second vote allows them to open up the government. We all know this is a political way out (at leastt for 3 weeks). Opening up the government will also allow Trump to give the SOTU and will allow real negotiations with Dems.

Trump's counter gave the GOP ability to negotiate -- GOP needs to reopen government as a sign of good faith to discuss a counter proposal.

Feds need to be calling all GOP Senators to have them open the government. I can see Murkowski, Sullivan, Graham, Collins, Alexander, Gardner, Scott, Shelby, McSally, Rubio, Portman, Romney, Capito, Lankford, and Enzi as potential votes for the Dem bill. There may be more out there... I am thinking Cornyn or Thune. This is the GOP Senate chance to vote against the shutdown debacle. Remember the impacts go beyond Feds, to contractors and others. Voting to continue the shutdown would mean they agree with the "let the government close forever" crowd on the right.

I really don't think the GOP want another shutdown because: a) The executive branch is all they have and you can push a lot of right wing policy changes with executive power only. b) they still have judges and other prioriries for the Senate... shutdown gives Dems a more legit reason to stall -- instead of simply "payback for sandbagging Obama's nominees".



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2 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

1. Coulter/Rush would never accept. Mainly because it wouldn't be on camera. But also because they are too paranoid.

2. The Admin and Mitch being marginalized like this would kind of be amazing.

 

Nothing serious about this point. Just a Wed morning "hehe".

 

 

Do it on camera.

Edited by RedskinsFan44

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So, this vote (well, the one that isn't for show) is simply to open the government for three weeks, then we get to do it again?  

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Larry said:

So, this vote (well, the one that isn't for show) is simply to open the government for three weeks, then we get to do it again?  

 

First thing to do after it reopens is pass the STUPIDITY Act or the Republican equivalent which prevents any future government shutdowns. 

Edited by RedskinsFan44

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1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is why special council starting to get on my nerves.  If they believe he's a direct threat to the country, we need to know that NOW.  I'll be damned if they take due diligent to find out here's either gonna finish his term or shoulda been in jail months ago.

 

This is ridiculous.  Investigations like this take a long time to do right.  This is almost certainly the most important investigation in American history.  If Mueller goes public with his findings, and there is a single errant thread, then everything else is going to get called into question.  Everything MUST BE completely buttoned up. Add the facts that he is investigating hostile witnesses and witnesses who are so untrustworthy that their testimony must be supported by ironclad corroborating evidence , and many of the events happened either in Russia or with Russians (whom he can't haul in or subpoena their records effectively), and the fact that there are a million different angles that he has to track down and fit together cohesively, and probably millions of pages of documents to go through, AND the fact that Mueller has to step carefully so as not to push Trump into shutting him down, AND the fact that this investigation has STILL taken less time than every other special counsel investigation involving a sitting President, and your complaint that it's not going fast enough for your taste is silly.  

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1 hour ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

Do it on camera.

 

No way. That lets them do their "bits". I don't care what they actually have to say. I want it to look "serious" like they are going to those two are the defacto GOP leadership for a partnership.

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This is exactly what Dems should be doing.  Makes them look reasonable and still principled, but is also an appropriate playing of the hand they currently hold.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-democrats-to-offer-new-border-security-proposals--but-no-wall/2019/01/23/6e39e0b0-1f21-11e9-9145-3f74070bbdb9_story.html?utm_term=.9485a322b2fd

 

House Democrats to offer Trump higher border security spending — but no wall

 

Quote

House Democrats are prepared to support new levels of border security funding, but not a wall, if President Trump agrees to reopen the government first, lawmakers and aides said Wednesday.

 

The proposal, which Democrats plan to put into a formal proposal to Trump, will include border security improvements such as retrofitting ports of entry, new sensors and drones, more immigration judge and border patrol agents, and additional technology, among other measures.

 

The letter was not final and the exact figure Democrats will suggest was not yet determined, but aides said it would be higher than the levels Democrats have supported in the past, which have ranged from $1.3 billion to $1.6 billion.

 

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