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Trump Border Wall Post-Shutdown Discussion (Wall-Fight)

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1 hour ago, twa said:

 

I'm sure, after all his predecessor did.  LOL

 

Sick burn bro

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FWIW, if Congress actually granted this authority to the President, (not the authority to declare an emergency. The authority to take spending from one thing, and spend it somewhere else)?  

 

1). I wouldn't be shocked. I could see congress granting that authority. 

 

2). And I wouldn't have a problem with them granting that authority. In a real emergency, I could see how POTUS might legitimately need that authority. I'd want him to have it. 

 

3). If congress gave him this authority, without congress having the authority to countermand?  Then congress were idiots. 

 

4). If congress has the authority to countermand, and chooses not to do so?  Then my utter contempt will be . . . about where it's been, after the last two years. 

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45 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

 

Then congress were idiots. 

 

 

 

I rest my case.

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9 hours ago, Larry said:

FWIW, if Congress actually granted this authority to the President, (not the authority to declare an emergency. The authority to take spending from one thing, and spend it somewhere else)?  

 

1). I wouldn't be shocked. I could see congress granting that authority. 

 

2). And I wouldn't have a problem with them granting that authority. In a real emergency, I could see how POTUS might legitimately need that authority. I'd want him to have it. 

 

3). If congress gave him this authority, without congress having the authority to countermand?  Then congress were idiots. 

 

4). If congress has the authority to countermand, and chooses not to do so?  Then my utter contempt will be . . . about where it's been, after the last two years. 

What the Trump Administration has revealed (along with Mitch McConnell) is how much of the federal government is run on the honor system. It depends on people wanting to do right and having good intentions. Just one person with bad intentions, let's call him Ronald Frump, can tear down all the checks and balances. I mean, sure Congress can order a special investigation, but it's run by Trump who can fire everyone conducting it or overseeing it and then hire someone who can hide the report in the darkest cave if he so chooses.

 

One bad actor (who can hire other bad actors) and all the dominoes fall.

 

The problem with Washington today is that Snitch MacConman and Ronald Frump are dishonorable men. They want what they want and to hell with the spirit or rule of law. To hell with what's best for the country.

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1 hour ago, Burgold said:

What the Trump Administration has revealed (along with Mitch McConnell) is how much of the federal government is run on the honor system. It depends on people wanting to do right and having good intentions. Just one person with bad intentions, let's call him Ronald Frump, can tear down all the checks and balances. I mean, sure Congress can order a special investigation, but it's run by Trump who can fire everyone conducting it or overseeing it and then hire someone who can hide the report in the darkest cave if he so chooses.

 

One bad actor (who can hire other bad actors) and all the dominoes fall.

 

The problem with Washington today is that Snitch MacConman and Ronald Frump are dishonorable men. They want what they want and to hell with the spirit or rule of law. To hell with what's best for the country.

 

1). Sorry, but I seem unable to read your post without picturing Ronald McDonald and Hamburgler. 

 

2). I'll also assert that one of the big checks and balances that's supposed to protect our system, but has let us down, is our voters. 

 

The ultimate check and balance in our system, the ultimate power, is the voters. When politicians in Washington get exposed doing the kinds of abuses of their offices that people like McConnell or Nunes have pulled, what's supposed to happen is that the voters decide that ok, yeah, we gave that power to congress. But y'all abused it, and we've decided that you individuals can't be trusted with that power any more. 

 

And I will point out that this pattern of abuse of power didn't start with Trump or Nunes. Frankly, we're where we are today because the GOP wasn't punished for Whitewater. That was an obvious abuse of a power. And all it cost them was a few seats in congress, for one or two elections. 

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It’s actually not the voters that let us down, but the electoral college. Trump lost the popular vote by millions of votes. 

 

Now, the voters did let us down in regards to the Senate, but the House demonstrated again where the people’s will lies. 

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1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

1). Sorry, but I seem unable to read your post without picturing Ronald McDonald and Hamburgler. 

 

 

F8QbVJ0.jpg

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Burgold said:

It’s actually not the voters that let us down, but the electoral college. Trump lost the popular vote by millions of votes. 

 

Now, the voters did let us down in regards to the Senate, but the House demonstrated again where the people’s will lies. 

 

The fact that Trump lost a meaningless vote by 51-49 is not remotely close to proof that the system is working.  

 

And the Presidential popular vote is a meaningless vote.  Trump thinks it's important.  Pointing at the presidential popular vote is like the fan of the losing team talking about how his team won the time of possession.  

 

The Republican Party has been abusing the power which the voters give them for at least 20 years.  And using it for the purpose of making the country worse.  And they're not only not being punished for it, they're being sent back to abuse it more, this time.  

 

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1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

The fact that Trump lost a meaningless vote by 51-49 is not remotely close to proof that the system is working.  

 

And the Presidential popular vote is a meaningless vote.  Trump thinks it's important.  Pointing at the presidential popular vote is like the fan of the losing team talking about how his team won the time of possession.  

 

The Republican Party has been abusing the power which the voters give them for at least 20 years.  And using it for the purpose of making the country worse.  And they're not only not being punished for it, they're being sent back to abuse it more, this time.  

 

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest the system is working. It ain't. What I meant to say was that the voters did their job, but that the system failed them and us. . The system is horribly broken due to voter suppression tactics, an obsolete electoral college, gerrymandering, campaign finance abuse, propaganda efforts, etc.

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4 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest the system is working. It ain't. What I meant to say was that the voters did their job, but that the system failed them and us. . The system is horribly broken due to voter suppression tactics, an obsolete electoral college, gerrymandering, campaign finance abuse, propaganda efforts, etc.

 

The voters didn't do their job. 

 

After four years of whitewater, the GOP should have been out of power for a decade. Half of their incumbents should have been unemployed. 

 

When they started their Bengazi and email "investigations", the leash should have been shorter. They should have been kicked out at the very next election. 

 

After the the actions of the last two years?  They should have gotten 10-15% of the vote. 

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6 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

The voters didn't do their job. 

 

After four years of whitewater, the GOP should have been out of power for a decade. Half of their incumbents should have been unemployed. 

 

When they started their Bengazi and email "investigations", the leash should have been shorter. They should have been kicked out at the very next election. 

 

After the the actions of the last two years?  They should have gotten 10-15% of the vote. 

I won't disagree, but I think you are confusing your world view with reality as it should be. There are many people who believe in this extremist conservative movement as is understood by the 35% beach head of unassailable popularity the President maintains.

 

We may think their vote is wrong, but they don't. Those people did their job too in voting for their perceived interests.

Edited by Burgold

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On 2/22/2019 at 4:33 PM, Renegade7 said:

Is Trump a lame duck President now?

 

Given the hyperpartisanship of our politics now, any President is a lame duck that doesn’t have party control of both chambers in Congress. 

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So this is the point where republicans in Congress show the country that they don’t actually care about the constitution .

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yeah, if i had a buck for every republican that expressed reservations about whatever Trump was doing and then ended up voting with their toes on the line, i'd have enough for a vacation.

Show me a spine.

 

~Bang

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