Would you support the idea of the team moving on and starting over with an expansion team?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

50 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

I'd be all for starting over. He can take the championships and hall of famers with him for all I care. I'm over the Snyder B.S.

 

Soooo....if you don't care about the players, the championships, and want to root for a team that does not have Snyder as its owner...what keeps you a Redskins fan? Or did I misread your post? Because there are 31 other teams that would fit that description. is it because you live in the DC area and want to root for a local football team? (I don't know where you live, by the way lol)...

[mike42]

I don't like idea of our team leaving and replacing our team. I will never root for a Washington Expansion team and never watch the NFL again.

[London Kev]

The London Redskins, I like it.

[spjunkies]

26 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Soooo....if you don't care about the players, the championships, and want to root for a team that does not have Snyder as its owner...what keeps you a Redskins fan? Or did I misread your post? Because there are 31 other teams that would fit that description. is it because you live in the DC area and want to root for a local football team? (I don't know where you live, by the way lol)...

 

I will never be a fan of a non-D.C. area team. That's honestly  the only thing that keeps me along with my fellow DMV fans.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

 

I will never be a fan of a non-D.C. area team. That's honestly  the only thing that keeps me along with my fellow DMV fans.

 

I definitely respect that.

 

I don't agree with it lol...but I respect it a lot.

[Veryoldschool]

Maybe if we start a Washington Warriors Message Board they will come...………….  What a stupid idea but not really dumber than hoping Snyder won't step on it every year when you know he will.

 

Yes, I want a new NFL team in DC.  Daniel Snyder packs up the Skins and takes them to London or Timbuktu for all I care as long he goes, but he has to go.  My fear is he wouldn't go.  A visible and life size Snyder would move with the team and but somehow the real Snyder would actually stay a like a demon in the new owners body and unseen by us Snyder's demonic little head would pop out of the new owners chest and exclaim "excellent" when the Warriors turned the ball over.  No, now that I think about it further Snyder moving the franchise isn't the answer.

[NewCliche21]

I moved out of the DC area, so they're already not my home team.

I'm a Redskins fan no matter what.  If they moved to St. Louis, then I'd be a St. Louis Redskins fan.  Same reasoning I'm not a Ravens fan even though where I'm from, Columbia, is closer to Baltimore.

 

Unless one of my kids plays for another team, I will never root for anyone else unless it's in the Redskins best interests (playoff positioning, draft, etc.).  Doesn't matter if they're in DC called the Redskins or Oklahoma City called the Bungholes.  A **** by any other name smells just as bad.

[Despy]

Yes, but only if it meant the end of Snyder, and if it did, I'd support it even if it meant the end of the Redskins. 

 

Open a new stadium in DC named Jack Kent Cooke Memorial Stadium, name the team the Washington **** Dan Snyders, make sure no current employee of the Redskins is on the payroll (other than beloved old stars now broadcasting,) and take my money.

[Morneblade]

40 minutes ago, Despy said:

Yes, but only if it meant the end of Snyder, and if it did, I'd support it even if it meant the end of the Redskins. 

 

Open a new stadium in DC named Jack Kent Cooke Memorial Stadium, name the team the Washington **** Dan Snyders, make sure no current employee of the Redskins is on the payroll (other than beloved old stars now broadcasting,) and take my money.

Maybe the Washington FU Snyders would work better. Hard to say the other name on NFL Live, for instance.

It would be great though. Every time the team is on TV, or Radio, it would be saying FU Snyder. This would likely put Dan in a mental institution eventually. I'm ok with that.

[kleese]

1 hour ago, NewCliche21 said:

I moved out of the DC area, so they're already not my home team.

I'm a Redskins fan no matter what.  If they moved to St. Louis, then I'd be a St. Louis Redskins fan.  Same reasoning I'm not a Ravens fan even though where I'm from, Columbia, is closer to Baltimore.

 

Unless one of my kids plays for another team, I will never root for anyone else unless it's in the Redskins best interests (playoff positioning, draft, etc.).  Doesn't matter if they're in DC called the Redskins or Oklahoma City called the Bungholes.  A **** by any other name smells just as bad.

 

Man, coming here to OKC would be pretty sweet for me. I’d gladly don a “Bungholes” jersey...

 

I have no ties at all to the DMV area but am obviously a passionate Redskins fan. In a way, those of us in this position may be even more stuck with them than people who live there. As others have said, their main rooting interest is that they represent the area/city. For me, that means nothing when it comes to the Redskins. I root for them because they are the Redskins. So while I do not “want” them to move and would be upset for my fellow fans if they did, I’d almost certainly continue to root for them wherever they went. 

 

I understand this thread was an exercise in hypotheticals, but I’ll bring it back to reality and bring up two things that for me sustain hope... 

 

1. I do think a new stadium in a better area would help. FedEx isn’t really Dan’s fault as it was a totally flawed project he inherited. But it has also obviously come to symbolize a miserable era of Redskins football than Dan has overseen. As an outsider I think the stadium itself is a little unfairly ridiculed, but I do agree that the location is just terrible. Comparing it to other stadiums in cool city/commerce-based areas, there is no comparison. I don’t know the area very well, but it’s clear that for locals getting a stadium back in DC would be a really big deal. I think leaving FedEx behind would a big symbolic, cleansing-type of deal. And if Snyder is able to deliver this new stadium that fans approve of, it could also at least slightly heal his relationship with the fan base. 

 

2. As I’ve said many times, I do not dispute that Dan has been a bad owner. That is indisputable. I also don’t dispute whether or not he’s a “good guy.” I don’t know that, but where there is smoke there is usually fire so I’ll defer to those in the know. But I do believe, and have always believed he truly WANTS to win and just doesn’t know how. I think he honestly trusts those he hires and he’s simply hired the wrong people (due in large part of his own failures as an evaluator). 

 

When Gibbs came back, I really don’t think Dan interfered. I think it was Joe’s show. And during those years we certainly didn’t have any off field fiascos. The issue was that Gibbs just didn’t quite have enough football juice left. It was close but he needed an extra “oomph” and in all honesty it probably would have been better if Gibbs was President and hired people down from there. I also think Dan has basically let Bruce run the show... I believe the rumors that there is now tension between them because Dan feels let down by the off field junk we’ve been seeing. 

 

I say all this to say to say that I still think it’s possible ONE man could fix this. I think we’d have to likely luck into this one man, but if we can just find one man at the right time I think Dan would defer. That one man could be a GM, coach, or QB. Again, we will likely need to get lucky in the process as I certainly don’t trust Dan to scout and find this man due to his acumen at such things. But anyone can get lucky. Dan isn’t cheap when it comes to the team. Money won’t be an issue, and that helps. 

 

Who knows maybe Kyle Smith is the FO version of McVay. Or maybe we take a QB in this draft and he just so happens to be a Hall of Fame talent that not even the Redskins can mess up. Or maybe we land a coach that turns out to be such a genius that he can navigate through the choppy waters of the organization. 

 

That is what gives me hope. I don’t think Dan will sabatoge something clearly good. Gibbs II was pretty good and Dan begged him to stay— he wanted no part of breaking that up. Even now, he’s supporting Jay and we don’t hear anything about him interfering there. He’s letting Jay work. Unfortunately, Jay probably just isn’t quite good enough to be the man to fix THIS situation. 

 

So that’s my take. Which is ironic because in addition to all of the self inflicted nonsense the Redskins have also been fairly insanely unlucky over the past 25 years. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, kleese said:

1. I do think a new stadium in a better area would help. FedEx isn’t really Dan’s fault as it was a totally flawed project he inherited. But it has also obviously come to symbolize a miserable era of Redskins football than Dan has overseen. As an outsider I think the stadium itself is a little unfairly ridiculed, but I do agree that the location is just terrible. Comparing it to other stadiums in cool city/commerce-based areas, there is no comparison. I don’t know the area very well, but it’s clear that for locals getting a stadium back in DC would be a really big deal. I think leaving FedEx behind would a big symbolic, cleansing-type of deal. And if Snyder is able to deliver this new stadium that fans approve of, it could also at least slightly heal his relationship with the fan base. 

 

2

 

This is an excellent point. I think Snyder is aware of this, too.

[bakedtater1]

I like this thread...my mind has wandered here several several times..I would be all for it...I can see it happening... even with Snyder..some how some kind of deal made up with the NFL... relocate,new stadium, name, everything and you get to win the Superbowl..idk sounds silly but I could see it happening.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, kleese said:

 

So that’s my take. Which is ironic because in addition to all of the self inflicted nonsense the Redskins have also been fairly insanely unlucky over the past 25 years. 

Being consistently “unlucky” is not a sign that Dan broke a mirror or walked under a ladder.  When you are consistently unlucky it’s due to your own making, ie: self inflicted nonsense.  Bad stuff happens to every team, but bad teams can’t handle it.

[kleese]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Being consistently “unlucky” is not a sign that Dan broke a mirror or walked under a ladder.  When you are consistently unlucky it’s due to your own making, ie: self inflicted nonsense.  Bad stuff happens to every team, but bad teams can’t handle it.

 

I agree with your last sentence, to a point. The Redskins most talented and dynamic player of the past 25 years was murdered right as he entered his prime. That is a stroke of bad “luck” that most teams do NOT deal with. The trickle down from that event led to Gibbs retiring early (I believe he would have come back sans that tragedy). Now, I agree... it’s been a decade, any sort of good organization would have been able to move on from it. The fact that that event spiraled all the way into the Vinny/Zone era was taking bad luck and turning it into truly bad decisions. 

 

And even this year... they did have their #1 and #2 QBs break their legs over the span of three weeks during a season in which they were 6-3 up to that point. There isn’t any team in the league that would successfully navigate with a third and fourth QB at this point in the season. 

 

So my overall point is that the Redskins have had to endure BOTH. They’ve endured terrible leadership/management AND terrible luck. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

I agree with your last sentence, to a point. The Redskins most talented and dynamic player of the past 25 years was murdered right as he entered his prime. That is a stroke of bad “luck” that most teams do NOT deal with. The trickle down from that event led to Gibbs retiring early (I believe he would have come back sans that tragedy). Now, I agree... it’s been a decade, any sort of good organization would have been able to move on from it. The fact that that event spiraled all the way into the Vinny/Zone era was taking bad luck and turning it into truly bad decisions. 

 

And even this year... they did have their #1 and #2 QBs break their legs over the span of three weeks during a season in which they were 6-3 up to that point. There isn’t any team in the league that would successfully navigate with a third and fourth QB at this point in the season. 

 

So my overall point is that the Redskins have had to endure BOTH. They’ve endured terrible leadership/management AND terrible luck. 

I guess my primary point was that bad luck typically finds the inept more regularly than it does those that make better decisions.  

 

Not an exact fit here but Gary Player once said “the more I practice, the luckier I get” in response to someone saying he was lucky.  

 

I do believe there is a level level of luck associated with damn near everything in sports.  I just don’t think it’s coincidence that those who can’t get out of their own way happen to be  the most unlucky.

 

[BraveWarrior]

Looking at this hypothetical scenario, there's a few things I'd like to comment on. FIrst, if Dan moved the team, he'd likely change the name, colors, etc. So I wouldn't feel any sense of loyalty to follow the Redskins to their new home. It would give me a guilt free way to end my association with the franchise. Secondly, the NFL would probably not allow the city to keep the name for the expansion team, like Cleveland got to do with the Browns name. So, I'd also have no reason to feel loyalty to the new franchise. That would mean I'd be free to pick a new team. I've always liked the Raiders as my second favorite team, but them leaving Oakland (again) to go to Vegas doesn't impress me. I've always liked the Bears, and they seem on the cusp of a resurgence, so maybe I'd start rooting for them. I've always respected Belichick for the way he runs the ship in NE, but he'll be retiring soon, as will Brady, so the Pats' golden age is soon to be over. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

100% yes. Same answer I gave 5 years ago to this same question and five years before that. Same answer I’ll have 5 years from now when it comes up again.

 

The fact that this is always a question should be a clue to the answer.

[dballer]

As an NC Skins fan, if i could replay the Panthers expansion knowing what i know now...I would have to think long and hard about jumping ship.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

10 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I guess my primary point was that bad luck typically finds the inept more regularly than it does those that make better decisions.  

 

Not an exact fit here but Gary Player once said “the more I practice, the luckier I get” in response to someone saying he was lucky.  

 

I do believe there is a level level of luck associated with damn near everything in sports.  I just don’t think it’s coincidence that those who can’t get out of their own way happen to be  the most unlucky.

 

 

I think bad luck finds everyone the same...bad luck is more noticeable on the bad teams who can't overcome it. 

 

The Sean Taylor example is certainly extreme, but a nice discussion point. Every team "takes a chance" on guys who have been mixed up with bad people from their past. So, I don't think there was anything that Taylor or the team really could have done to prevent that tragedy, obviously. 

 

But, from the moment it happened, that's where it goes from an unfortunate single event to a "curse" in my opinion. The Patriots had a dynamic TE (and I believe Brady's clear #2 target at the time) thrown in jail for murder and went to the Super Bowl a couple times since. The Steelers had Shazier just deadlift 135 pounds a couple weeks ago (about a year after he got hurt - or has it been 2?) and they are going to pretty comfortably make the post-season yet again. The Chiefs had their star safety diagnosed with cancer. I get that he's come back (unlike Taylor) but he has missed a bunch of time and they are always contending. 

 

The reason it SEEMS like we have more bad luck is because those bad breaks are easy to latch onto when we constantly come up short of expectations. Where Redskins have an excuse for why they didn't have a good year, teams like the Eagles or Chiefs or Patriots end up having cool stories of perseverance on their America's Game Super Bowl documentary. A generation ago, we took our misfortune and it galvanized our teams...The Body Bag Game became a springboard and footnote to a Super Bowl season. Now, Colt McCoy getting hurt becomes a reason we won't go 8-8. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

24 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I think bad luck finds everyone the same...bad luck is more noticeable on the bad teams who can't overcome it. 

 

I agree with your entire post, I probably should have put “ “ around ‘unlucky’.  We appear more ‘unlucky’ because we have much less room for error.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

17 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Here's the thing, though...it's a thought exercise. So it's not about possibilities, at all. It's about presenting a scenario--regardless of whether or not we individually think the scenario is likely to happen--and then thinking through all the possible ramifications of that scenario and giving our response.

 

It's a bit like that question 'If you could have dinner with anyone, living or dead, who would it be?"...Very few people say "You can't have dinner with a dead person" lol...we all pretty much know it's an exercise in thinking about who interests or fascinates you, or who you may miss from your life, and then discussing our choices. I saw the OP as being like that, as well as my scenario. I think I even said I wasn't saying I think it would happen and that I wasn't talking about possibilities at all. Just seems like more thought should be put into this thought exercise.

 

Makes sense (sorry, I tried to reply yesterday but was having issues doing so)...

 

Then I'll stand by my opinion...in the very specific scenario of:

 

Snyder moves this team but the name/history/colors stay

Snyder's new team becomes good 

The new Washington Redskins stay bad

 

I'd be disappointed in the outcome. But I would still think it was worth the reboot for the fact that - given what we know now - it's more likely to work out. 

[bird_1972]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I think bad luck finds everyone the same...bad luck is more noticeable on the bad teams who can't overcome it. 

 

The Sean Taylor example is certainly extreme, but a nice discussion point. Every team "takes a chance" on guys who have been mixed up with bad people from their past. So, I don't think there was anything that Taylor or the team really could have done to prevent that tragedy, obviously. 

 

But, from the moment it happened, that's where it goes from an unfortunate single event to a "curse" in my opinion. The Patriots had a dynamic TE (and I believe Brady's clear #2 target at the time) thrown in jail for murder and went to the Super Bowl a couple times since. The Steelers had Shazier just deadlift 135 pounds a couple weeks ago (about a year after he got hurt - or has it been 2?) and they are going to pretty comfortably make the post-season yet again. The Chiefs had their star safety diagnosed with cancer. I get that he's come back (unlike Taylor) but he has missed a bunch of time and they are always contending. 

 

The reason it SEEMS like we have more bad luck is because those bad breaks are easy to latch onto when we constantly come up short of expectations. Where Redskins have an excuse for why they didn't have a good year, teams like the Eagles or Chiefs or Patriots end up having cool stories of perseverance on their America's Game Super Bowl documentary. A generation ago, we took our misfortune and it galvanized our teams...The Body Bag Game became a springboard and footnote to a Super Bowl season. Now, Colt McCoy getting hurt becomes a reason we won't go 8-8. 

 

Great post. Not surprisingly, the big difference between us and these other more resilient franchises is our team's ingrained dysfunction which is a reflection of the incompetence of the owner. Further evidence that the only way to see any meaningful change is for Snyder to get out of the picture. Waiting for him to "get it" is useless at this point. 

 

And I agree with others in this thread that moving the franchise and starting from scratch would arguably be the best thing since this team is now probably irreparably damaged.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

11 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Great post. Not surprisingly, the big difference between us and these other more resilient franchises is our team's ingrained dysfunction which is a reflection of the incompetence of the owner. Further evidence that the only way to see any meaningful change is for Snyder to get out of the picture. Waiting for him to "get it" is useless at this point. 

 

And I agree with others in this thread that moving the franchise and starting from scratch would arguably be the best thing since this team is now probably irreparably damaged.

 

Yep...

 

Ideally we would start over with essentially a warehouse full of trophies, record books, and uniforms. All the people would be brand new. That would instantly cleanse the Redskins of the dysfunction.

 

The next best thing would be an ownership change and that individual or group doing its own purge and cleansing where a respected and proven President is hired to build from scratch. The most realistic version of this might be a current minority owner finally buying out Snyder. I don't think he's going to up and sell anytime soon.

 

Since even that isn't likely and Snyder...the best option that is even remotely feasible would be for Snyder to blow up everything beneath him. Let guys like LaFemina and Schaffer hire the entire front office and completely step away from any regular contact with the operations. It's not as good, because those guys could conceivably already be poisoned by the culture. But it's the closest thing any of us will see to a new team or change in ownership. 

[Patrick Evidente]

If this happens, Cowboy, Giant and Eagle fans will taunt us with: "Washington Warriors ZERO Super Bowls! LMAO!!!!"

[Warhead36]

Na, it'd be impossible for me to just root for a brand new team. I just wouldn't have a favorite team and would watch Red Zone full time.