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Cooked Crack

Election 2019 - D's take VA. Bevin takes L.

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12 hours ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

Foreign born voters otherwise known as Americans.


NoVA being a Petri dish of “radical leftism” is funny. Please keep doubling down on your insane ideas and labeling everyone not down with them “radical leftists”. 

Edited by No Excuses

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I'd like to ask a modern day GOPer/Trumper what ideas that aren't conservative qualify as both Democratic and not "far left?"  Seems like anything that isn't pro-Trump is deemed communist, socialist, far left extremist, but when you look at the actual policies outside of maybe Bernie Sanders's stuff, it isn't all that different from Just left of center proposals.  (Spoiler: It ain't the Dems who got extreme)

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https://www.vox.com/2019/11/6/20951639/nra-virginia-democrats-spending-gun-control

 

The NRA’s big loss in Virginia, explained

 

Quote

The nation’s most powerful gun rights organization was dramatically outspent in Virginia in 2019 by gun control organizations, helping Democrats gain control of the state legislature for the first time in more than two decades.

 

According to the Virginia Public Access Project, the National Rifle Association spent $350,269 this cycle to help pro-gun rights candidates beat back Democrats who were running on a gun control platform, one that became particularly poignant after a mass shooting in Virginia Beach on May 31 left 12 people dead. (An NRA spokesperson cautioned that total spending numbers for the organization will not be available until later this month.)

 

But gun control groups spent far more, hoping to help get Democratic candidates into office who could push forward a package of proposals aimed at stemming gun violence, including background checks on all firearms sales and a ban on so-called “assault weapons.” Everytown for Gun Safety Action Fund and Everytown for Gun Safety Victory Fund (backed in part by former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg) report that they spent $2.5 million in Virginia, making the group the biggest outside donor in the race — and Giffords PAC, named for former Rep. Gabby Giffords, spent $300,000 on a digital ad campaign alone.

 

Much more at link.  Either the NRA is saving its money for Trump and consciously abandoned state races, or they are in serious financial difficulty. 

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16 hours ago, tshile said:

We’re in the middle of watching Virginia moving solid blue for the foreseeable future. 


Doubling down on white identity politics has doomed the GOP in this area for a very long time. They will have a very tough time putting forward moderate candidates when their base and bench has eroded in the suburbs. After Charlottesville and then having Corey Stewart on the Senate ballot going around the state talking honoring the confederacy... going to be a long time, if at all, that they recover from this. 

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1 hour ago, No Excuses said:


Doubling down on white identity politics has doomed the GOP in this area for a very long time. They will have a very tough time putting forward moderate candidates when their base and bench has eroded in the suburbs. After Charlottesville and then having Corey Stewart on the Senate ballot going around the state talking honoring the confederacy... going to be a long time, if at all, that they recover from this. 

 

This.

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Did Putin cut off the faucet?

 

I think LePierre spent most of it on mansions, suits and personal security.  The rest was embezzled by Ollie North. :ols:

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The "identity politics" criticism of the left is a whole bunch of nonsense anyway.  Of course they employ identity politics, you sort of have to if you want to appeal to different.......IDENTITIES.   Now if we lived in an oasis of equality to where 1 policy fit all, that would be different, but in this country that simply isn't the case.

 

I think the good will behind "identity politics" has been warped and misconstrued by right-wing media (on purpose) and is being conflated with twitterverse activity.  The Civil Rights Act could be labeled "identity politics" so could reproductive rights.

 

When your party is not for certain........."identities"  it is a bit tough to win their votes.

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This appears to be the new status of party control in PA counties after yesterday. (h/t <a href="https://twitter.com/4st8?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@4st8</a> for some of this)<br>Pink: GOP hold<br>Red: GOP pickup<br>Light blue: Dem hold<br>Dark blue: Dem pickup <a href="https://t.co/bf7T7wQmxa">pic.twitter.com/bf7T7wQmxa</a></p>— Jeff Ditzler (@JeffDitzler) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffDitzler/status/1192182693343170565?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 6, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

 

SSorry everyone, trying something and failed.

Edited by LadySkinsFan
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22 hours ago, Larry said:

 

My gut says that's an opinion (or an agenda) masquerading as a statistic.  

 

Yes, but my gut is that you are generally heroically wrong about just about everything.

Edited by Lombardi's_kid_brother
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2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

The "identity politics" criticism of the left is a whole bunch of nonsense anyway.  Of course they employ identity politics, you sort of have to if you want to appeal to different.......IDENTITIES. 

 

Eh... i'm going to get myself in trouble here but **** it, it's almost friday

 

I think the far-right criticism is nonsense because when you big-picture it... we know what's going on there.

 

I, as a white male, do find it aggravating that....

- the left pretty much spends all their time appealing to everyone who isn't a white male. 

- that if, as a white male, you point out that generally speaking you're just the whipping post for just about every social issue ever... you're mocked because us white males just have everything so easy so boo hoo cry some more, or whatever everyone's favorite line is for that.

- that if you do try to engage in their conversations it must be on their terms (which is to accept that as a white male I'm part of the problem), you also have to agree with them about solutions or you're told your opinion isn't valid because you're a white male

- if, as a white male, you ask for someone to appeal to you you're instantly cast as a white nationalist/racist/etc. I mean, I wouldn't dare subscribe to anything that described itself as trying to promote what's good for while males, because you'll be called a racist/white nationalist/whatever instantly (even though every single other group has multiple organizations that do just that for them, and they're praised as being great and important)

 

Even if you want to pretend the GOP's stuff doesn't have an unacceptable amount of racism in its tone and actions (and sometimes outright the exact words they're using..), at best they're appealing towards white christians who want to enforce their morals on everyone, and that's not me either.

 

So, yeah, I have a huge problem with the identity politics on both sides, and I don't think any of the gripes are nonsense.

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@tshile

 

I actually agree that most of these you bring up as aggravating are problems or more specifically over-reaches that can sometimes breach past the point of prejudice.

However, not all of the Left behaves in this way, at least not in real life (and some conservatives in real life also don't behave in this way).

Many of our social issues come from exploitation and entitlement that arises from a culture that is mainly dominated by white males (but not exclusive to them).

Sympathy and understanding is in short supply for many entitled white maies. because self-awareness, self-responsibility, and self-restraint to the point of recognizing historical levels of imbalance and being better than those who came before, eludes them. However, there is empathy to be found for white males who are not enjoying financial privilege, rather than allow them to fall into an empathetic blindspot that occurs when we judge all white males as a monolith.

 

Most of the privilege and power dynamics white males enjoy have been baked into our systems and culture to the point, where they fail to account for how it helps their lives and that blindness further promotes an attitude "boo-hoo go cry some more and pull yourself up by your boot-straps" that they put on others.

 

Understanding and seeing people based on the content of their character is a human problem and biologically speaking, partly an energy conservation problem. It's faster and takes less mental energy to let our brains fall into over-simplified heuristics/mental short-cuts, especially when we're irritated by others or dealing with an adversarial "other". People on both sides lack the mental and emotional discipline to deal with identity politics in a way that doesn't corrupt the conversation with these over-reaches and over-simplification of a given group. Which leads to antagonism and polarization, which further devolves conversation into more simplified and over-generalized terms that further antagonizes and polarizes people. It's an energetic circling of the drain, a negative feedback loop of communicative corruption through over-simplification and the death of nuance for monolithic, absolutist frames of mental reference.

So yea, I agree. On the whole identity politics as currently applied, by most of the people in most groups, ****ing sucks.

Edited by Fresh8686
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1 hour ago, tshile said:

 

Eh... i'm going to get myself in trouble here but **** it, it's almost friday

 

 

 

No, you're not. It's a discussion, we good.

 

I think my counter to all that would be to ask where the Dems/Progressives policies of inclusion hurt "white people" (generally speaking) other than in the sense that if you make the market place more competitive by making it accessible to more folks, then yeah a bi-product will be that it makes it more challenging for those who generally had a leg up previously. 

 

Of course I would agree that twitterverse cancel culture, and gotcha BS is out of control and a lot of it comes from the left, but to me that is very much different than actual policy being proposed, and I think the right-wing media does a fantastic job of conflating what someone tweets with non-existent policy.  

Edited by NoCalMike
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Far left constantly-aggrieved Twitter is miserable.  But less scary than conspiracy-theory facts-are-whatever-I-believe far right Twitter. 

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3 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

Yes, but my gut is that you are generally heroically wrong about just about everything.


Could be. 
 

Obviously, I should stop assessing posts and ideas. And instead stick to keeping score of every time a poster says something I didn't like. So that I will then be able to ignore what he said, and insult the poster who said it. 
 

But the option seems undesirable to me. 
 

My gut says people might think I'm being petty and confrontational. 

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2 hours ago, tshile said:

I, as a white male, do find it aggravating that....

- the left pretty much spends all their time appealing to everyone who isn't a white male. 


I can see how that would be aggravating.
 

If it were true. 

 

I'm pretty sure, for example, that the left has spent a teensy bit of their time talking about Medicare for All (or other health care proposals). 
 

And I don't think a single one of them has proposed "Medicare for All But White Males". I'm pretty sure they include white males, too. 
 

Now, if you want to express your offense that very few of them ever spend any time pandering exclusively to white males, then well, I haven't been paying much attention, but I could easily believe you. 
 

:) 

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2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

I think my counter to all that would be to ask where the Dems/Progressives policies of inclusion hurt "white people" (generally speaking) other than in the sense that if you make the market place more competitive by making it accessible to more folks, then yeah a bi-product will be that it makes it more challenging for those who generally had a leg up previously. 


yeah I mean that’s essentially the crux of the whole situation. On one side you have an unfortunate set of circumstances that are completely understandable, but ultimately it’s a less than desirable scene at the moment. 
 

On the other you have what appears to be malicious intent. And, depending on how deep you want to go, it’s well calculated in the sense of there being a long term plan that’s end result is certain people being in certain positions to influence policy. 
 

so it’s like... I don’t want to make it that big of a deal cause realistically it’s better than the other option, but also i definitely don’t want to create an appearance of being in with the other option...

 

And realistically I don’t “identify as a white male”. I state it for contextual purposes, and I recognize it when discussing social issues, but I don’t have this “identity” about it.  So ultimately this is quite low on the list of things I care about. 
 

(which as a side note is another issue I have with it all. I don’t have that feeling of identity and as such it’s hard for me to relate to those that do.  I mean I get it... I just don’t get the lengths some go through over it. There are many people who that’s all their identity is... it’s you hear them talk about, it’s what every issues boils down to them for them, etc

 

note: while that can be correctly read as being about people of color being too into the fact that they’re a person of color, it can also (and should also) be read to include whites people being way too into the fact that they’re white (or that other people aren’t))

Edited by tshile
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1 hour ago, Larry said:


I can see how that would be aggravating.
 

If it were true. 

 

I'm pretty sure, for example, that the left has spent a teensy bit of their time talking about Medicare for All (or other health care proposals). 
 

And I don't think a single one of them has proposed "Medicare for All But White Males". I'm pretty sure they include white males, too. 
 

Now, if you want to express your offense that very few of them ever spend any time pandering exclusively to white males, then well, I haven't been paying much attention, but I could easily believe you. 
 

:) 

*sigh*
this entire post is stupid. 
 

in the context of identity politics and lack of anything related to white males your grand “gotcha” is that I didn’t use the word exclusively? Your example is Medicare for all?

 

christ. 

Edited by tshile

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Summary so far:  

 

tshile:  The left pretty much spends their entire time talking about everybody but white males. 
 

Larry:  Actually, the left spends a good chunk of their time talking about everybody, white males included. Starting with the one issue which has been the most-covered issue of the election so far. 
 

tshile:  this entire post is stupid. 
 

Wow. The wit. The logic. The well supported reasoning. 
 

You've certainly convinced me. You're right. The left pretty much spends all it's time appealing to everybody who isn't a white male. If you ignore the parts that are entirely stupid. 

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24 minutes ago, Larry said:

Summary so far:  

 

tshile:  The left pretty much spends their entire time talking about everybody but white males. 
 

Larry:  Actually, the left spends a good chunk of their time talking about everybody, white males included. Starting with the one issue which has been the most-covered issue of the election so far. 
 

tshile:  this entire post is stupid. 
 

Wow. The wit. The logic. The well supported reasoning. 
 

You've certainly convinced me. You're right. The left pretty much spends all it's time appealing to everybody who isn't a white male. If you ignore the parts that are entirely stupid. 

 

T-dog has been on a big “you’re stupid” kick of late.  Kinda stressed, I guess.

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Always been on that kick. Mostly cause it’s true. 
 

but naw biggest stress is remembering to put in some waiver claims every Tuesday. Keep forgetting 

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