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    • By JimmiJo in ES Coverage
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      ES Coverage: Giants vs Redskins 
       
      12/9/18
       
      DEFEAT!!!
       
      Giants 40 - Redskins 16
       
      Greetings friends, JimmiJo here, and I am joined by my shivering partner, Spaceman Spiff. Together we will bring you this all important NFC East divisional matchup between the Washington Redskins and New York Giants.
       
      When I was last with you the Redskins had command of the division and there was optimism to spare. Since, devastating injuries to quarterbacks, linemen, and cornerbacks has left this team losers in 4-of-5 contests.
       
      But there is still everything to play for, and if they can manage a victory today and the Eagles to the same Washington will once again have a share of the lead.
       
      I can dream can't I?
       
      On paper, the future looks grim. A continued collapse will start the questions about the future of personnel and perhaps leadership. Yes, we can certainly point to injuries as the primary reason the team is struggling. But the record earlier in the year was masking some issues with the squad. No real arial threat. An inconsistent running game. And a defense that has been anything but consistent.
       
      But these are questions for another time. Today, it is just two teams looking for a win.
       
      See you at the half.
       
      Follow along on Twitter @Skinscast 
       
      Inactives
       
      The Redskins declared the following players as inactive:
      o   No. 12 QB Colt McCoy
      o   No. 32 RB Samaje Perine
      o   No. 46 RB Kapri Bibbs
      o   No. 52 LB Ryan Anderson
      o   No. 63 C Demetrius Rhaney
      o   No. 66 G Tony Bergstrom
      o   No. 99 DL Caleb Brantley
       
      JimmiJo
       
      I was happy to see players like Josh Johnson and Byron Marshall in the game. The marquee guys did not earn the right to play following the disastrous first half. It was historically bad.
       
      Never before had the Washington Redskins trailed by as much as the 34-0 deficit they entertained today at the half.
       
      I remarked to one of the writers that in 13-seasons I had never seen this team so outplayed as today. The offense led by Mark Sanchez was throw-up in mouth bad. At no point did you feel like they would or could score.
       
      I tweeted before the game that it is time for Daniel Snyder to replaced head coach Jay Gruden. Yes injuries are the headline. But the offense was poor before the injuries.
       
      No aerial threat and an inconsistent rushing. They only seemed to score 20-points per game.
       
      What they did do well was hold on to the ball. And the defense was a takeover machine the first half of the year.
      But turnovers tend to even out.
       
      So I was more than glad to see those ‘backups’ play. All they did was show they should have been playing in the first half.
       
      Especially Johnson. Take a look at your Redskins’ starter the rest of the way. From his first snap the offense looked different. There was energy. There was life.
       
      And there was threat.
       
      Johnson played with more command, accuracy and imagination than Mark Sanchez. He looked much more the accomplished quarterback.
       
      A word on Josh Doctson. You are an idiot. Without the stupid penalty you are not letting the safety out-position you to make the pick with 5-minutes left.
       
      Following this game, staring at the standings and considering possible scenarios for getting in the playoffs is fools’ gold. It is all about assessing who it worth keeping for next year.
       
      I don’t believe head coach Jay Gruden is going to make the list. Nor should he. He has had nore than enough time to do something here. He had Kirk Cousins’ starting over 3-full seasons.
       
      He had his chance.
       
      I tweeted before the game team owner Daniel Snyder should let Gruden go and bring in Mike McCarthy. Washington Post writer (and friend) Rick Snider made a great counterpoint to that idea:
       
      “Why would McCarthy want to come here? He has better options,” he said.
       
      That sure feels like the truth. And if so, it may explain why Gruden is fast becoming one of the most tenured coaches in the league.
       
      This was my last game for this season. I would like to thank Extremeskins and the team for the opportunity this year. I will see you guys next year.
       
      Let me go on the record now and say I do not think Jay Gruden's position here is secure. Not with the likes of Mike McCarthy available.
crabbypatty

The official clean house thread.. lay out your plan for the future here

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@Kilmer17 what you outlined is similar to my take with one exception---i want dan as far out of the picture on who is hired to be gm/team pres as possible. My scenario involves Dan, who obviously has to be involved at the beginning lol,  picking a duo or trio of widely-acknowledged competent sources on such roles and who are currently out of football---bill parcell types---and then they put their heads together and make the gm/team pres choice with zero input on it from dan.

 

And then it runs downward in that manner---no dan no time on ANY football decision, period. not on a player, not a play call, not a coach, not any personnel including some small-level assistant position for a friend's kid. A fantasy, sure.  If you can't embrace fantasy you'll have little joy following this team. :ols:

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6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Why though? He’s the best LT in the game now. 

 

Not anymore he isn't. 

 

We should consider trading him for a high pick if someone will make the trade. 

 

Full rebuild.

 

4 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

@Kilmer17 what you outlined is similar to my take with one exception---i want dan as far out of the picture on who is hired to be gm/team pres as possible. My scenario involves Dan, who obviously has to be involved at the beginning lol,  picking a duo or trio of widely-acknowledged competent sources on such roles and who are currently out of football---bill parcell types---and then they put their heads together and make the gm/team pres choice with zero input on it from dan. And then it runs downward in that manner---no dan no time on no football decision, period. not on a player, not a play call, not a coach, not any personnel including some small-level assistant position for a friend's kid. A fantasy, sure.  If you can't embrace fantasy you'll have little joy following this team. :ols:

 

@Jumbo Unfortunately, only way you get that is to no longer have Dan as the owner. Since he will ultimately hire the person making the decision to hire the rest of the FO, it's unlikely he won't game it so that the person he hires isn't a yes-man lackey who hires other incompetent people. 

Edited by bird_1972

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3 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Oh I completely disagree.  But yeah, if he's seen as the best LT then you dont do anything.

 

I dont think he's in the top 10 anymore.

 

Admittedly I dont isolate and watch him much or watch video. I guess it’s been beaten into my head by various media, players, and coaches.. certainly could be wrong. What have you seen this year that puts him outside the top 10? 

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8 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

If we cut him, it all accelerates to the year we cut him.  He's owed 15 mill for 2019 (guaranteed) and now 16 mill for 2020 (also guaranteed because of the injury)  AND 22 mill of the signing bonuses must be allocated.

 

If we cut him before March of 2019, we owe all of it against the 2019 cap (53 mill).  After March of 2019, we would have paid 21 mill in 2019 and would owe 32 mill in 2020.  (all appx #s).  

 

This is what I was thinking in a cutting scenario.  Theres a difference between cutting your losses and shooting yourself in the foot, think you know my preference here.

 

8 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

He would make a fantastic LG if he'd take a paycut.

 

We talking about Trent?  Yes, would be perfect.

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3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Admittedly I dont isolate and watch him much or watch video. I guess it’s been beaten into my head by various media, players, and coaches.. certainly could be wrong. What have you seen this year that puts him outside the top 10? 

Look, he's a warrior.  But he's slowed by injuries and incapable of completely stoning the opposition for 60 minutes like he could before.  Thats all.  There are younger guys who are better than him now.  

 

My thought about LG is that we need a LG, the one time he played LG he was a dominating force.  And we need to get better at LT, probably sooner rather than later,  Trent can be a good LT for a few more years.  But we need to look at the Oline as the sum of all parts.

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is what I was thinking in a cutting scenario.  Theres a difference between cutting your losses and shooting yourself in the foot, think you know my preference here.

 

 

We talking about Trent?  Yes, would be perfect.

Yes, cut him after next year.  That's what you are saying?

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48 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This should been done yesterday after the game.

 

  I'm not ready to commit until end of the year, I at least need to know Alex status. Are yall sure you are fine with intentionally losing for the next year or two?  This is a very volatile time in this franchises history, jus look at the lack of people in FedEx now. 

 

I dont want to hear a peep when we start getting blown out next year in front of an empty stadium in the spirit of a rebuild. 

 

I also don't think there is any evidence that a full on tank job works in the NFL. The Raiders seem to be doing it this year, because they have some flexibility knowing that they are going to be in a brand new city in two years and also because their owner is literally broke and their coach is a crazy person.

 

And I don't think it's going to work.

 

The Colts did a version of it in the Suck for Luck year. And while they did get them a great QB, they aren't exactly a shining beacon of competence right now.

 

I think NFL teams are huge operations where losing often begats losing.

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15 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

There is selection bias here, too. Only those with no other options opt to work for a guy like Snyder. Therefore, we generally don't get the "best and brightest". 

 

It will be an issue until Snyder is no longer the owner of the team.

Very true. Good candidates avoid the Skins.

 

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Top management always thinks the Skins are just one piece away from being competitive.  They trade a starting slot corner and a third round pick to get the veteran QB.  Maybe Smith could have done something but in the end it's the same result - trading away assets with no return.  Skins used a 3rd round pick for a one-year rental of HaHa Dixon.  Year after year the Skins make personnel decisions that just don't pan out.  The result is a roster that just doesn't have the talent level needed.  The Skins record at the beginning of the season was much better than their on-field play.  Luck turns and they revert to their true standing.  I thought they were a 7-9 to 9-7 team but now we will be lucky if they win another game.  If you don't think talent is the issue ask yourself why Sean McVay leaves his mediocre Skins team and immediately creates a powerhouse?  

 

Fix the FO structure and get rid of the sycophants.  Let a new GM decide whether to keep the coach.  IMO the HC has shown an inability to adapt in-game to his opponents AND frequently asks his players to do things that they cannot do.  Neither are desirable qualities in a coach.

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3 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

I also don't think there is any evidence that a full on tank job works in the NFL. The Raiders seem to be doing it this year, because they have some flexibility knowing that they are going to be in a brand new city in two years and also because their owner is literally broke and their coach is a crazy person.

 

And I don't think it's going to work.

 

The Colts did a version of it in the Suck for Luck year. And while they did get them a great QB, they aren't exactly a shining beacon of competence right now.

 

I think NFL teams are huge operations where losing often begats losing.

 

After 25+ years of Snyder's ownership, we are well past this point.

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6 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

 

Yes, cut him after next year.  That's what you are saying?

 

Yes, next year, after March 2019, not after next season.

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Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

Yes, next year, after March 2019, not after next season.

Yep.  That's the way to do it.

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It doesn't matter how good you are playing Madden. Dan thinks he is better than you all, and he has more money in his pocket to backup that claim.

 

This season could have been a little different and less tied up in money if they had just paid Keenum instead. Not saying Keenum was the answer either but you just have to swallow your pride and start looking for a starting franchise QB instead of trying to put a band-aid on a wound that needs 40 stitches.  

 

The forward thinking of the FO just baffles me and I don't even play Madden. 

 

Not sure if the FO will have a shakedown and if not then you just simply can't get rid of everyone. But you have to get rid of low performing highly paid players though. You start from there first. 

 

 

Edited by zskins

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On such a cold and crappy day, it warms my heart a little to see much of the fanbase in-unison that this thing needs blown up.

 

It feels like just yesterday folks were defending this ****-show for “making the best” out of the QB situation, saying that our ‘unique’ FO structure was “working”, and the list goes on. 

 

Progress is being made within the fanbase.  Get louder.  Don’t show up on Sunday either.  Send the message loud and clear.

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6 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

I think NFL teams are huge operations where losing often begats losing.

 

Agreed.  If were talking about turning around a culture, encouraging losing I dont think is how you do it.  we've talked about tanking in the NBA, the rosters are so much smaller and star driven. I keep saying this with the Wizards, it's not that blowing it up doesnt make sense at all, it's that if the same people and mentality that lead to the failure is still there, you are wasting your time jus getting rid of the players, the new players will give the same results. 

 

Think we've all seen enough crappy franchises with an elite QB who are trapped to pretty much nothing more then personal accolades. Rodgers and Manning only getting one ring with their franchises is embarrasing, Marino is example of us having a homerun hitter and everything else around it useless would look like (what doing nothing with the rest of our franchise could look like)

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12 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

 

 

@Jumbo Unfortunately, only way you get that is to no longer have Dan as the owner. Since he will ultimately hire the person making the decision to hire the rest of the FO, it's unlikely he won't game it so that the person he hires isn't a yes-man lackey who hires other incompetent people. 

 

 

yesssss lol 

 

not only did i say removing dan from the equation of who coaches/runs the team 'as far as possible'  as a qualifier, i had already addressed your point in several ways---it's one reason i said "duo or trio" (higher bar than hiring a single dan enabler) and said they'd have to be of a kind that they're widely acknowledged as competent experts, another bar higher than dan-standard...see how those are "conditions" that are dealing with the dan factor (to the extent possible)?

 

it's kinda funny you'd think, no matter what, that i'd need to have that pointed out to me--that dan would have to hire the guys at the beginning of the chain--which, as i said, was noted in the post. i also used the term fantasy i believe on the whole concept. we're just spinning wheels in here anyway. :P

 

my idea was just putting one more layer---hopefully a substantive one---between dan and who actually coaches/runs the team. but of course i'd love to try a different owner. i'm sure the way I've posted the last decade-plus supports that idea :P

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1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said:

I would support a team that was 0-16 if I knew there was a longterm plan in place and things were happening to get there.

 

I refuse to support another 6-10 team with aging veterans making millions to suck week after week.

Best Post I've read in months mate. 

 

HTTR 

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This thread is so frustrating as a fan, not because the thread exists, but because the fan base has been BEGGING, SCREAMING and PLEADING for years that a full rebuild is necessary. Obviously nothing will change as long as the owner remains the same. 21 years is long enough vindication that as an NFL owner, he is a failure. 

 

This has to start with Allen. He has been GM for 9 or 10 years and during his reign of idiocy this team is neither better or worse. It's good in some aspects and worse in others. Whoever comes in (will be wrong, because Snyder is tainted), but whoever we bring in, has to come in accepting that he must clean house. Coaches on down. Guys like Mason Foster, Preston Smith, etc, can't say either. We need football players. 

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My plans for the future:

 

1.) Operation tank continues, with the Redskins ending at 6-10, hopefully leap-frogging every team that needs a QB other than the Cardinals.

2.) Bruce Allen and the entire coaching staff are fired after the last game.

3.) Dan grows a heart and sells the team.

4.) The new owner offers the best GM in the league a 1% share of ownership to run the team.

5.) Our new GM pries David Shaw out of Stanford with a 15 million per year offer for five years.  

6.) Our new GM talks the owner into heavily investing into the scouting department run by Doug.

7.) Norman, Foster, and Reed are cut.

8.) The Redskins draft the second best QB in the draft with their first pick.

9.) The Redskins draft Reed's replacement with their second pick - preferably a durable TE that can block as well as they receive.

10.) The Redskins draft every other pick using the best-player-at-the-position philosophy.

11.) The Redskins avoid free agent pick ups until after Smith's contract is off the books.

12.) I'm not a superstitious man, but I am desperate, so I want the new owner to spare no expense exorcising the curse from this team.  Build a new stadium in a traffic friendly location named Jack Kent Cooke Memorial Stadium, plant trees in front of Hacksaw Snyder's house, invite Post reporters to sleepovers, even change the team name if nothing else works....just get the Snyder stink off of everything for the love of God.

Edited by Despy

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I don't know who Eric Schaeffer or  Kyle Smith are because I don't follow the front office as much as I should since I have been a Redskins Fan since 1970. With that said I believe that Bruce Allen and Jay Gruden should be fired because they are the ones that have constructed and coached this team as it is today. Bruce has selected very good talent but not necessarily one that has fit what scheme is being run. Jay Gruden has had 5 years to coach a successful team and has only one playoff appearance in that time and he didn't win his first playoff game. He hasn't won 10 ball games in a season yet and his teams are the worst prepared teams in the league. Poor tackling, penalties, poor conditioning, poor play calling, poor in-game adjustments and poor clock management. Bruce Allen needs to go because he hasn't addressed the O-Line especially at Left Guard and Center and now at Left Tackle with Trent Williams having to play injured. He also traded fro Alex Smith and gave them the best new up and coming CB. Our Defense was suppose to be the strength of the team and they look like a high school team that can't stop a bunch of old men trying to relive their youth. We paid Zach Brown a bunch of money and he forgot how to tackle. Our linebackers are garbage and can't cover anyone or even get to the QB. Our CB's 95% of the time give 10 yard cushions to every receiver they play against and this has been the team's MO for the last 10+ years. Our Dline don't disrupt anything and our LB's are always out of position especially Mason Foster. He has slow reaction time and misses assignments continuously. 

So who evaluates these guys? Who is coaching these guys? Payne has been coached down and isn't the disrupted force he was in college. You can say that everyone in the Pros are good but Payne is an exceptional player being underutilized. Ryan Kerrigan is a liability because when you need a screen play to work, you just let him rush because you will be successful 96% of the time. He allows himself to be blocked on plays and is always out of position. Look at every game after the Falcons game and teams go right down the field at will against the supposedly improved Defense.They have are the worst against stopping anyone on 3rd down. I know I have gone away from the original topic of the post but the point is this whole organization needs to be evaluated as a whole and if the whole front office and coaching staff needs to be gutted then so be it. Then every player has to be made to evaluated. made to compete and earn their job. 

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53 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Progress is being made within the fanbase.  Get louder.  Don’t show up on Sunday either.  Send the message loud and clear.

 

Indeed. 

 

I want that stadium to be empty. 

 

Or full of "sell the team, Dan" t-shirts. 

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56 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

yesssss lol 

 

not only did i say removing dan from the equation of who coaches/runs the team 'as far as possible'  as a qualifier, i had already addressed your point in several ways---it's one reason i said "duo or trio" (higher bar than hiring a single dan enabler) and said they'd have to be of a kind that they're widely acknowledged as competent experts, another bar higher than dan-standard...see how those are "conditions" that are dealing with the dan factor (to the extent possible)?

 

it's kinda funny you'd think, no matter what, that i'd need to have that pointed out to me--that dan would have to hire the guys at the beginning of the chain--which, as i said, was noted in the post. i also used the term fantasy i believe on the whole concept. we're just spinning wheels in here anyway. :P

 

my idea was just putting one more layer---hopefully a substantive one---between dan and who actually coaches/runs the team. but of course i'd love to try a different owner. i'm sure the way I've posted the last decade-plus supports that idea :P

 

I know - my comments were meant to amplify my frustration with the current state of affairs and not to call you to task for your suggestion (in normal organizations, that would be a great suggestion - but the Snyder Redskins are anything but normal).

 

I'm just so damn livid right now.

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It's nice to dream but you know deep in your heart of hearts nothing is ever going to change as long as Snyder owns this team.

Short of a Donald Sterling or similar situation I can't think of any way Dan can be made to sell.

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