carex Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Personally, I'm never in favor of something like that, I'm not even in favor of Jay being fired because he seems pretty good when he has a healthy team, he just never does. This assumes Smith sticks it out Right now we have close to six million to roll over. Cutting or trading the following people would result in around 50 million available in free agency Josh Norman Jordan Reed Chris Thompson Vernon Davis Stacy McGee Paul Richardson(June 1st) Samaje Perine Norman, Reed and Thompson are obviously the big losses. But many are already expecting Norman to go. We start Dunbar and Moreau and hope, Stroman, Johnson and Holsey step up. Maybe we try to add another free agent CB Smith really doesn't seem to have synched up with Reed, his injuries seem a bit less often so maybe he could generate some interest. Davis is getting older and even with their familarity he and Smith aren't in perfect synch. For TE, get a new starter, elevate Sprinkle to two, give Flanagan and Holtz a chance at the third spot Thompson is good, but frequently hurt, Try and trade him, let Bibbs and Marshall fight it out for the 3rd down back spot Richardson has injury history and wasn't active enough to make a difference. let him go and try to upgrade McGee is just depth, we have younger and cheaper Perine doesn't save much but he might at least get a low round pick or a player swap, we can hopefully re-sign Peterson, Guice and Fat Rob will be back we could add around another 1.5 cutting Deshazor Everett. He's not exactly killing it on teams anymore and we do have younger cheaper guys for teams and safety depth now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 This is interesting. I don’t know if I think we should blow it up, but I do think while we are pretty young and high potential at defense we feel maxed out on offense and Jay feels maxed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, Burgold said: This is interesting. I don’t know if I think we should blow it up, but I do think while we are pretty young and high potential at defense we feel maxed out on offense and Jay feels maxed out. Jay is spending weeks and weeks per season having to coach like it's the second quarter of a preseason game and the backups have started to filter in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 More cap space isn't the answer. Chances are we end up with around 30mil in space before FA anyway. Right now we should probably keep Preston Smith and let Crowder walk. Give Scherff a long term deal. Hit on one big FA and that's it. We simply have to draft well this year with our 4 picks within the top 100 and also decide on whether we draft a QB or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 I really wanted to wait until end of the season for a whos safe and whos not thread. I don't agree with blowing up our TE depth, I don't care about Alex Smith, Reed hasn't missed a game this year, he stays. We should trade Chris Thompson while we have the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 25 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: More cap space isn't the answer. Chances are we end up with around 30mil in space before FA anyway. Right now we should probably keep Preston Smith and let Crowder walk. Give Scherff a long term deal. Hit on one big FA and that's it. We simply have to draft well this year with our 4 picks within the top 100 and also decide on whether we draft a QB or not. parts of our team aren't working, we need money to change them to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, carex said: parts of our team aren't working, we need money to change them to work The right answer might be to take a ~36mil hit on Smith's deals, clear the decks in management and start again in 2019 with a solid draft on defence with Colt at QB for one year. Honestly, I have no clear view on what is the right answer now. Although a mix of Jay sticking it out, Allen being here, and Alex Smith trying to get healthy in the background doesn't seem a good idea, whilst also purging the roster to create 50mil in cap space. Not sure that gets us anyway other than think what the hell we gonna do by 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Why would we resign Peterson. He don't want no part of being a back-up, and his production falls off mid season and he'll be a year older. Bibbs is doing a good job, imo. Keep him and Guice. I wouldn't be heart broken about cutting reed or chris Thompson, if i had to choose keep CT. Without norman i think our defense looks a lot worse. He isn't a shut down corner but i think he helps focus the defense. Plus, he gives a ****. I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Why would we resign Peterson. He don't want no part of being a back-up, and his production falls off mid season and he'll be a year older. Bibbs is doing a good job, imo. Keep him and Guice. I wouldn't be heart broken about cutting reed or chris Thompson, if i had to choose keep CT. Without norman i think our defense looks a lot worse. He isn't a shut down corner but i think he helps focus the defense. Plus, he gives a ****. I like that. at his current price tag most people are expecting him to be a cut no matter what we do with the rest of the roster. And I think Peterson is fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Personally, i think norman envisions himself the leader of this team, so i think he wants to be here. I think he might be willing to take a pay cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: The right answer might be to take a ~36mil hit on Smith's deals, clear the decks in management and start again in 2019 with a solid draft on defence with Colt at QB for one year. Honestly, I have no clear view on what is the right answer now. Although a mix of Jay sticking it out, Allen being here, and Alex Smith trying to get healthy in the background doesn't seem a good idea, whilst also purging the roster to create 50mil in cap space. Not sure that gets us anyway other than think what the hell we gonna do by 2021. that's NEVER the right answer in the NFL. Also of my seven cuts, three did almost nothign for the team, Thompson seems on pace to miss half the season, and Redd disappeared for long stretched under Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 I'd like to keep Thompson. I don't think he makes THAT much so the value is still there for a fantastic 3rd down pass catching back. Reed actually does appear to be healthy this year. I'd like to see how he does with a QB that actually throws him the ball. I do believe his salary is blowing up though. The rest of your list can go although I think Richardson was pretty solid and impactful before he got hurt. But again, he's got an injury history. If we do go in this direction though, that means a full on rebuild which means a new GM and new coach. Unfortunately a full on rebuild is almost impossible with the now anchor of Alex Smith's contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, carex said: that's NEVER the right answer in the NFL. Also of my seven cuts, three did almost nothign for the team, Thompson seems on pace to miss half the season, and Redd disappeared for long stretched under Smith Im not actually sure what you mean here. However, to be short, I think your OP is like pissing in the wind with regards or sorting our issue out. It's a bit of a meaningless middle ground. May as well just cut Trent, Norman, and Kerrigan and save 30mil right out the blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 I would keep the defense in-tact, and just replace/improve the obvious weak points. The offense is the tougher problem to handle because you have a little of everything when it comes to problem areas. The best playmakers seem to always be hurt, so it's like you are keeping them around year after year in the hopes they can play. You don't want to let them walk because what's behind them is a big step down, but you can't be cornered into overpaying for guys who aren't playing close to 16 games a year. At this point I have no idea how much Guice coming back is going to improve things if the O-line drops 3 starters again in 2019. Guice will definitely flash his skell set and perk up some eyebrows on individual plays, but how effective overall can he be on this roster right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 3 hours ago, carex said: Josh Norman Jordan Reed Chris Thompson Vernon Davis Stacy McGee Paul Richardson(June 1st) Samaje Perine I never wanted to keep Perine, and he wasn't healthy enough, I'd let him and Fat Rob go. Vernon. I still like the guy, he's played good at times, but hes' not a number 1 tight end. Jordan, I think took a while to find his feet in season because of the injury. Norman, I don't care either way, same with Thompson, but I'd only trade Thompson if you are planning to Resign AP. NO love for Stacy, and Paul I think did some good things, but may be redundant with the emergency of Quinn. My real worry is the OL. Sherf needs retained, We need a new LG, probably a rookie, and then there is Trent. Some of the reports almost made it sound like he was having a stroke or something. If Trents health is going south, then this team is in serious trouble on the oline, and there is no sugar coating that. You aren't going to See SMith go, I don't think he can be cut until he emerges from rehab, and if that's8-10 months, you can't count on him at all. We need another young Corner, and I think with the addition and retention of Dix, you have some Safety possibilities. I"m not all that big on Swearinger, but i'd not rock the boat for or against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 2 hours ago, carex said: This assumes Smith sticks it out I don't know why we would make all these moves to clear 50 mil, and also keep AS. It seems the main reason to clear all this room would be so we are able to get out of that contract and start clean. My 2 cents: I think this offseason simply boils down to this: what would you prefer to do with approx. $20 mil of cap space, (a) cut Alex Smith and shed that contract or (b) resign HHCD and Preston Smith, two key players on our defense. If both of those guys walk, OLB and FS become huge needs. This assumed HHCD finishes strong and is seen as a key cog in our defense for the next five years. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2019/ We have $18.4 mil in cap space next year. We can roll over $6.2 mil in space from 2018 to next year. Trade/cut Norman ($8.5 mil), Reed ($6.1 mil), V Davis ($5 mil), and McGee ($2.4) frees up another $23 mil. Altogether, we are looking at $47.6 mil in cap space in this scenario. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/cap/2019/ Rookie contracts (about $8 mil), and bringing back inexpensive role players who have good value with another $15 mil or so (players like Peterson, McPhee, Arie, Bergstrom, Harris, Cooper, Marshall, etc) would bring us back down to approximately $24 mil. Enough to make the Smith vs HHCD/Preston decision. Cutting Smith would add $22 mil to his current 2019 cap number. I'm assuming Preston gets $10 mil AAV, and HHCD gets $7 mil AAV, but even if they were slightly higher, we still had room to extend them if we desired. I would vote to keep Smith for 2019 and use the approx $20 mil to re-sign HHCD and Preston, and that is assuming AS would not play a snap for us in 2019, and may not play another snap for us ever again. Paying him and carrying his $20 mil cap hit for 2019 to hold a clipboard is a tough pill to swallow, but I feel taking the approach that we must find a way to cut him because he is done is one of those "can't see the forest for the trees" scenarios. Bringing back HHCD and Preston would keep two key cogs on an improving defense, and we would still be using $15 mil to re-sign some role players for key roles. Then our 2019 offseason is very similar to last years, let some guys walk (Crowder, Nsekhe, etc) and sign no high profile free agents, netting us some comp picks. Let's say we earn 2 picks for next offseason's moves, we would be looking at 9 picks in 2019 and 9 picks in 2020. That can definitely help upgrade some areas. And I would look hard at Grier/Patterson and the rest of the rookie QB's. Another silver lining of hanging on to AS for another year is I think he would be a great mentor for a young QB. Mahomes sure turned out OK. If AS is a June 1st cut in 2020, it would lessen the blow to our cap for either year, and I don't feel we ever enter the proverbial feared "cap hell". Teams rarely do in this day and age of accelerating salary caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 We can't cut Smith and he's not retiring. That contract is going to cripple us for at least the next two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 Alex Smith's contract will not cripple us in 2020. If we cut him this coming off season we'd incur an extra 16 mil cap hit from 20 mil to 36, but if we cut him in 2020 we go from 21 mil to 16. It's a lousy cap hit but it's not crippling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 I think it would be closer to $71M in cap space created if we make those cuts and use the proper June 1 designations, I think we'll be heading into the offseason with about $18M in cap space before we make any cuts, also we might have a couple million in carryover. Josh Norman - Use post-June 1 designation and save $11.5M in cap space or don't use the June 1 designation and save $8.5M by cutting him, or trade him Jordan Reed - Use post-June 1 designation and save $8M in cap space or trade him Morgan Moses - May use a post-June on him instead of Norman or Reed, if so it could save us $5M in cap space and if not it saves us $2M in cap, maybe a trade is an option as well Vernon Davis - saves us $5M in cap Mason Foster - Saves $2M Ryan Kerrigan - Will save $10M in cap space CT - Has more injuries than Evil Knievel, saves us $3M in cap. With these cuts and the $18M we have opening up next season along with any carryover We could create about $71M - $73M in cap space which would let us absorb all the bad debt incurred by cutting Alex, then we have a fresh start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 no on Moses, no on Kerrigan, I listed the only people I think should be cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 2 hours ago, carex said: at his current price tag most people are expecting him to be a cut no matter what we do with the rest of the roster. And I think Peterson is fine Knowing the redskins Guice will not be ready for a full load next year. I think AP just wants a chance to get regular carries. 3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: More cap space isn't the answer. Chances are we end up with around 30mil in space before FA anyway. Right now we should probably keep Preston Smith and let Crowder walk. Give Scherff a long term deal. Hit on one big FA and that's it. I agree on all points. What are we going to do? Go on a spending spree and turn into the redskins of old? We need to build up the OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 None of those players will realistic help us win in the long-term and none of them are game-changers. if somehow getting rid of those 7 players gets us 5-6 draft picks, i'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 47 minutes ago, carex said: no on Moses, no on Kerrigan, I listed the only people I think should be cut I know but I'm changing it because Moses is terrible and Kerrigan is not worth what he's being paid. Theres no point in keeping Kerrigan if you're rebuilding. All of the players on my list are either underperforming or inconsistent as hell. The whole point of this is so we can unload Alex's contract next year and absorb that $40M in bad debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, carex said: Alex Smith's contract will not cripple us in 2020. If we cut him this coming off season we'd incur an extra 16 mil cap hit from 20 mil to 36, but if we cut him in 2020 we go from 21 mil to 16. It's a lousy cap hit but it's not crippling You cannot cut an injured player. His salaries are now good through 2020 unless he passes a physical before the 5th day of the 2019 season or he retires. He is not passing a physical - that is 100% for sure. Not sure why he would just leave $Ms on the table and retire. But I guess stranger things have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, goskins10 said: You cannot cut an injured player. His salaries are now good through 2020 unless he passes a physical before the 5th day of the 2019 season or he retires. He is not passing a physical - that is 100% for sure. Not sure why he would just leave $Ms on the table and retire. But I guess stranger things have happened. I wasn't suggesting we cut him 46 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: I know but I'm changing it because Moses is terrible and Kerrigan is not worth what he's being paid. Theres no point in keeping Kerrigan if you're rebuilding. All of the players on my list are either underperforming or inconsistent as hell. The whole point of this is so we can unload Alex's contract next year and absorb that $40M in bad debt. I think going into tha tmuch of a rebuild is a lousy idea and no, Moses is not terrible. And the point of this is to remove people either to expensive or who we can't rely on to get more people we can 4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: More cap space isn't the answer. Chances are we end up with around 30mil in space before FA anyway. Right now we should probably keep Preston Smith and let Crowder walk. Give Scherff a long term deal. Hit on one big FA and that's it. We simply have to draft well this year with our 4 picks within the top 100 and also decide on whether we draft a QB or not. you're about 10 million off according to Over the Cap. They have us at just under 6 mil to roll over to next year, and 14 something with the probable cap increase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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