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Who should be the next head coach for the Skins


ClaytoAli

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11 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

You don't think we stand a chance at winning the division?

Until they are mathematically eliminated there is a chance.  But I don’t believe they will win the division. I  think the Eagles will win it.

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We've only hired offensive minded coaches recently. I wouldn't be opposed to someone with a defensive background. I think we're closer to being elite on defense than offense and would love a more dynamic mind on that side of the ball. I know the NFL is trending towards offense but we need more talent on that side of the ball before it really becomes impactful.

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I don't know. I am going to take a deep breath and step away from this thread.

All-in-all, 4 days was not enough time to get your back-up ready for a key division game. Hopefully we'll be ready for Philadelphia next Sunday. New Orleans need to do us a favor and take out Dallas next Thursday. The defense knows the offense is wounded and need to step it up. Suggest we put this thread on the shelf until the season is over.

Hail!

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8 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

 

List of HC with 1 PO win is long. Not sure all of them are proving greatness through it. Bill Cowher even won a SB so...

Now, I'm not sure ES would have found greatness in:

6-10

7-9

7-9

11-5

5-11

That place would have been nuts around here.

 

Jay has commanded great games throughout his tenure here against the Packers, Saints, Seahawks on top of my head. That could be seen as sign of greatness. And his lone playoff game he had to start a DB that got signed 2 days before, facing A Rodgers...

 

Obviously I remember since I brought the comp.

 

My point anyway, is that Cleveland doesn't tell the whole story about Bellichick. And Jay Gruden's here probably do not.

 

 

Can you point me to an all time great coach from the last 40 years that didn't break 10 wins in his first 5 seasons? If you cannot, then I think we can safely assume that Gruden has an extremely low chance of being an all time great coach.

 

Since "all time great" is subjective, let's just look at coaches who went to a Super Bowl. See below. Just 2 coaches who ultimately went to Super Bowls began their coaching careers as slowly as Gruden: Kubiak and Fisher.

 

2017: Pederson went 13-3 in his 2nd season; Belichick went 11-5 in his 4th season

2016: Quinn went 11-5 in his 2nd season

2015: Kubiak didn't break 10 wins until his 6th season and didn't break 11 until his 7th; Rivera went 12-4 in his 3rd season

2014: Carrol went 10-6 in his 2nd season but didn't break 11 wins until his 7th

2013: Fox went 11-5 in his 2nd season

2012: John went 11-5 his 1st season; Jim went 13-3 his 1st season

2011: Caughlin went 11-5 in his 3rd season

2010: McCarthy went 13-3 in his 2nd season; Tomlin went 10-6 in his 1st season and 12-4 in his 2nd

2009: Payton went 10-6 in his 1st season and 13-3 in his 4th; Caldwell went 14-2 in his 1st season

2008: Wisenhunt went 10-6 in his 3rd season and never won 11+

2007: Caughlin and Belichick have already been discussed

2006: Dungy went 10-6 in his 2nd season and 11-5 in his 4th; Lovie went 11-5 in his 2nd

2005: Cowher went 11-5 in his 1st; Holmgren went 11-5 in his 4th

2004: Reid went 11-5 in his 2nd

2003: Belichick and Fox have already been discussed

2002: Gruden went 12-4 in his 3rd; Callahan went 11-5 in his 1st

2001: Martz went 14-2 in his 2nd

2000: Billick went 12-4 in his 2nd; Fassel went 10-5-1 in his 1st and 12-4 in his 4th

1999: Vermeil went 11-5 in his 4th; Fisher took 6 seasons to break 10 wins, with a 13-3 record in his 6th

1998: Shanahan went 13-3 in his 4th; Reeves went 10-6 in his 1st and 13-3 in his 4th

1997: Holmgren and Shanahan have already been discussed

 

Gruden is a great guy, and he absolutely has a place in this league as a competent coach. But I don't envision a future where he blossoms into an all-time great coach. Yeah, he didn't have the personnel, I hear you. But at the end of the day, part of his job is to overcome that. If he can't (1) create schemes that make bad players look good, (2) communicate to the FO which players will be diamonds in the rough for his scheme, or (3) motivate and develop the bad players on the roster so that they execute at a high level, then maybe he's never going to be more than mediocre.

 

I also think that some of the personnel issues are things that he ultimately has control over. He's a decent coach, which is why he recognized that Cousins was better than Griffin and McCoy early on, and stood on the table to make that change early in his tenure. But an all-time great coach would likely have stood on the table for Cousins that offseason and told the FO that it is non-negotiable that Cousins needs to be signed long-term at the $18m/season offer that Cousins' agent made. Gruden also hand picks his coordinator staff. He is partly responsible for the lack of production from our defense (relative to the investments we've made: 2 consecutive 1st rounders, multiple 2nd and 3rd rounders, high priced FAs and trades). Haslett and Barry ultimately paved the way for Phillips to reject us, which left us with Manusky instead of a top flight defensive coordinator. Vic Fangio was also on the market during the year that we went with Manusky, and now the Bears are arguably the best defense in the league.

 

I think we've given him a fair shake, and we should bring somebody new in even at the risk of us reverting to being a dumpster fire again. I'd rather take a chance at greatness, get burned, and suffer the consequences, than stick with something that's comfortable but might never be better than mediocre.

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5 hours ago, ncr2h said:

Can you point me to an all time great coach from the last 40 years that didn't break 10 wins in his first 5 seasons? If you cannot, then I think we can safely assume that Gruden has an extremely low chance of being an all time great coach.

Marv Levy. Had to wait for his 2nd stint. And 6 losing season. Then went on 4 SB. And missed one by a FG that would have altered history.

Mike McCarthy stepped into a job where he had Brett Favre for a few years, then got Aaron Rodgers... Which makes it easier...

 

Mike Holmgren had to wait 5 years as the Seahawks HC to get 10 wins. You're gonna tell me he did 10 earlier as a Packers, but the guy got Brett Favre. That helps.

 

Now you're gona tell me he doesn't qualify, because you decided 40 for some reasons, but Tom Landry's history is very telling.

 

6 hours ago, ncr2h said:

I think we've given him a fair shake, and we should bring somebody new in even at the risk of us reverting to being a dumpster fire again. I'd rather take a chance at greatness, get burned, and suffer the consequences, than stick with something that's comfortable but might never be better than mediocre.

 

Well if you consider working for 5 years with a meddling owner, a dumb ass as Team President that meddle even more, no GM for the most part, as a fair shake. Fine for you.

 

But I really don't. Take this list of HC and try to find how many of them stepped into a situation that was:

- A complete mess as it was when Shanahan left with that RG3 stuff.

- A FO as toxic as ours.

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Of course.

Just got through seeing, once AGAIN, Josh Norman on the NFL Game Day show or whatever its called. Fulfilling his obligations on a tv show but can't do it on the field.

All talk no walk.

He basically said [ talking about the Dallas game ] they let Dallas dictate what they wanted to do to us. regarding Cooper, he said it was poor tackling and they can't allow WRs to catch all of these slants and digs and go for 40 or 70 yds.

 

When DBs are running with the WR and trying to strip the ball instead of tackling him, they don't get the strip and the WR had already gotten at least the first down and a lot more.

These are issues coaches should be yelling in their ears about. Just STOP the guy. Now that I think about it, I do recall seeing this happen way too much [ trying to strip the ball away ] but it doesn't happen. They're more focused on trying to get a turnover than doing their job.

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8 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Marv Levy. Had to wait for his 2nd stint. And 6 losing season. Then went on 4 SB. And missed one by a FG that would have altered history.

Mike McCarthy stepped into a job where he had Brett Favre for a few years, then got Aaron Rodgers... Which makes it easier...

 

Mike Holmgren had to wait 5 years as the Seahawks HC to get 10 wins. You're gonna tell me he did 10 earlier as a Packers, but the guy got Brett Favre. That helps.

 

Now you're gona tell me he doesn't qualify, because you decided 40 for some reasons, but Tom Landry's history is very telling.

 

Holmgren traded for Brett Favre, who was a nobody at that point in time. He absolutely gets credit for his 11 win season as the Packers HC.

 

Continuing to invest in Gruden is a waste of time. After 5 years of continued mediocrity, hardly any coaches in NFL history (especially recent history) ever became consistent winners.

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12 minutes ago, ncr2h said:

Holmgren traded for Brett Favre, who was a nobody at that point in time. He absolutely gets credit for his 11 win season as the Packers HC.

And Holmgren was so good that he wasn't able to replicate it in Seattle?

 

OK.

 

edit: Btw Ron Wolf did the trade. And Glanville never wanted Favre in Atlanta.

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I don’t care about names. I just want a head coach who doesn’t run one side of the ball. I want a head coach. He runs the team and manages the game day stuff. The OC runs the offense and calls the plays etc.; the DC runs the defense and calls the plays etc. I want a guy who leads the entire team and not a glorified coordinator. No more Norv Turners’ and definitely no Gregg Williams’. And please please please, know how to manage the game; when to go for it, when to kick, how to manage the clock, and the time outs.

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2 hours ago, Birdlives said:

I don’t care about names. I just want a head coach who doesn’t run one side of the ball. I want a head coach. He runs the team and manages the game day stuff. The OC runs the offense and calls the plays etc.; the DC runs the defense and calls the plays etc. I want a guy who leads the entire team and not a glorified coordinator. No more Norv Turners’ and definitely no Gregg Williams’. And please please please, know how to manage the game; when to go for it, when to kick, how to manage the clock, and the time outs.

You know who you just described?

 

Spoiler

shanahan-rg3-atlanta.jpg

 

 

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5 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

And Holmgren was so good that he wasn't able to replicate it in Seattle?

 

OK.

 

edit: Btw Ron Wolf did the trade. And Glanville never wanted Favre in Atlanta.

 

Holmgren's issue in Seattle was he was the HC/GM.  It wasn't working and he was stripped of GM duties and was just HC.  Seattle started winning after that.  

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