fearlessNelms Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 First of all, the injury to Smith was awful and I feel bad for the man. That said, last year when friends would ask me who I thought the Skins next QB would be if we lost Cousins, I would tell them that I thought it would be McCoy. My reasoning was that Gruden likes him, he knows the offense like the back of his hand and is under contract. Now that he is the guy, do I think we're better off? Yes & no. Yes, because of his knowledge of the offense & I believe Gruden's play book is more open now. No, because I question his leadership skills and his ability to have a calming influence on the team when the game becomes a pressure cooker. As for the game yesterday? I felt we definitely let one get away we should've had. A few huge drops by Davis, the pick 6 and the sack where Smith was injured that took us out of FG position, were all obviously plays that cost us big time. The refs absolutely played a big role in us losing too. And even with all that, we still had a shot at the end of beating a good team & building some confidence for the stretch run. But I thought our last possession, when we only needed 3 to win & only needed to go about 30 yds in 52 seconds to get into reasonable FG range, could've been handled much better than it was by both coaches & players. Even with no timeouts, to only have to get 30 yds. to set up a game winning FG was a blown opportunity that I think most other NFL teams- regardless of how good or bad they are- would've taken advantage of. When a team in this league gives you a chance to steal a game like Houston gave us yesterday, you have to capitalize on it, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 37 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: Yeah, I think it's very rare that a coach calls a play and tells the QB which receiver he will target. I believe it happens, but these are split-second decisions being made by players. It's not like Gruden said "Colt, throw deep and in bounds to Doctson...I'm sure we'll be fine and something miraculous will happen to either stop the clock or allow him to score" Almost every play design has a progression built in. There is a primary receiver were the ball is intended to go based off the coverage you get. If the primary is not open you move to the second guy and then the third. Most NFL reads are progressions based on coverage rather than just straight progressions - often with different concepts on either side of the formation to attack different expected coverages. So no it’s not often if ever a coach will say ‘just throw it to Doctson’ - but that play call looked designed to take a shot play to Doctson as the primary read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, MartinC said: Almost every play design has a progression built in. There is a primary receiver were the ball is intended to go based off the coverage you get. If the primary is not open you move to the second guy and then the third. Most NFL reads are progressions based on coverage rather than just straight progressions - often with different concepts on either side of the formation to attack different expected coverages. So no it’s not often if ever a coach will say ‘just throw it to Doctson’ - but that play call looked designed to take a shot play to Doctson as the primary read. What about it "looked" that way? How can we diagnose who the primary is when there are 3-4 guys out running routes? That's not snarky, by the way...I hope it doesn't come across as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk_Skins Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 hour ago, SAli457180 said: The inability to stop the run is coming at the worst time with Dal@ss getting hot and they'll follow the Atlanta and Houston blueprint by moving the ball efficiently early which sets passes to the WRs. Manusky and Co. needs to find a way to fix this, but there's not time with the short week. is it when we are in Nickel? They don't seem to get touched for about 7/8 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 hours ago, dckey said: I agree with everything but with the clock management. It was 4th and 10 so you couldn't get 7-8 yards. And also many are talking about the timeouts before the 2 minute warning. If he would have taken the timeouts before the 2 minute warning and then we get that PI on Norman the game would have been over. Now the mismanagement was the shot to Doctson with 19 seconds left. Even if he caught it you would not be able to clock it. I don't know if that is on the qb or coach? If you look at the replay, there was a receiver right around the max FG range line, Jay called a route for that. I did not see if Colt decided to go deep anyway, but there absolutely was an attempt to have someone open to just get the yards we needed. Houston did not beat our ass, they barely survived us. Hopkins donked a straight line FG that I just saw in a high school game bounces in instead of bounces out. Houston did not score enough offensive points to beat us, that pic 6 was a huge swing and that was Alex that had us in the redzone. I can absolutely see the arguement that if Colt plays the whole game, we win. As soon as he came in we were scoring TDs, we had our first lead change today and it wasn't us giving up the lead, it was coming back from 10 down, which up to that point most people would probably agree would be a death sentence for our offense. If that's not the case anymore, this is a completely different conversation going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMK9973 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: If you look at the replay, there was a receiver right around the max FG range line, Jay called a route for that. I did not see if Colt decided to go deep anyway, but there absolutely was an attempt to have someone open to just get the yards we needed. Houston did not beat our ass, they barely survived us. Hopkins donked a straight line FG that I just saw in a high school game bounces in instead of bounces out. Houston did not score enough offensive points to beat us, that pic 6 was a huge swing and that was Alex that had us in the redzone. I can absolutely see the arguement that if Colt plays the whole game, we win. As soon as he came in we were scoring TDs, we had our first lead change today and it wasn't us giving up the lead, it was coming back from 10 down, which up to that point most people would probably agree would be a death sentence for our offense. If that's not the case anymore, this is a completely different conversation going forward. 1 - While I agree with you in general. Hopkins did not donk the kick. IT fell about 6 yards short in the end zone. 2- What play are you talking about? the 3rd down play? Again -If the guy caught it right around the FG line (Which was 7 yards) then its 4th and 2 with about 8 seconds left and we cant spike it or get the FG team there. We needed to gain teh yards on 2nd. By 3rd down -Houston had everything at the sidelines covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: What about it "looked" that way? How can we diagnose who the primary is when there are 3-4 guys out running routes? That's not snarky, by the way...I hope it doesn't come across as such. I've not looked at the All 22 so not sure what the route combos or coverage was. But 'looked like' is based on the following. First off there were really only two things we could attempt in that situation - deep shot along the sideline or quick out. Middle of the field was not an option unless the throw was to the end zone. So pre snap (as always) the QB is looking at the coverage and essentially picking a side to attack. Again I've not looked at the All 22 to see what was happening to Smiths right. But post snap Smith looked briefly straight down field (locate the safeties which is standard in ID'ing coverage) and then went right to Doctson. So based on play call, game situation and the Qbs eyes it looked to me like Doctson was the primary option on the play. More generally you can almost always diagnose who the primary should have been based on route combos and coverage. That's how NFL passing concepts are designed. Run a sail concept against Cover 3 - ball is supposed to go to the deep cross unless the corner drops under the deep cross in which case you throw to the back. Run a Smash against Cover 2 and the ball should go to the slot receiver running the corner route unless the corner drops under the corner route in which case the hitch is open under him. Once you have picked your side of the field to attack based on the coverage or more often the matchup its almost always ends up being an 'either or' decision on who to target based on the action of one or two defenders. And your protection call of course, and if they send an extra defender who you didn't expect or they show pressure one side and then bring it from the opposite and have to throw hot ... Did I mention playing QB in the NFL is hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, TMK9973 said: 1 - While I agree with you in general. Hopkins did not donk the kick. IT fell about 6 yards short in the end zone. 2- What play are you talking about? the 3rd down play? Again -If the guy caught it right around the FG line (Which was 7 yards) then its 4th and 2 with about 8 seconds left and we cant spike it or get the FG team there. We needed to gain teh yards on 2nd. By 3rd down -Houston had everything at the sidelines covered. I watch the kick, it hit the middle up right then fell back into the endzone instead of through the uprights Ya, third down play. I agree Houston was covering the sidelines, but I'm pretty sure they weren't going to let that be easy on 2nd or 1st down either. Could they have a called a better play? Yes, but I don't believe the plan was to take a shot downfield, that was an option and Colt chose that probably hoping for the PI seeing everything else was covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePackisback Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 You guys at least can still make the playoffs. Its way better than our chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 2 hours ago, RandyHolt said: I only pick out 3 of each, and actually prefer others post their own independent thoughts, vs nitpick why someone omitted a good. Anyways. Alex playing his best game for a half - 7 points off a nice AP run... ok. I call that a bad since it took 10 weeks to get a great half out of him. I am still not 100% sold that P6 is totally on Reed which could cause a rethink of the best game line. I have seen Alex have minimal chemistry with almost all players most of the year, and has been grossly inaccurate on many throws. I called it drunk Alex. It's pure speculation to pin that sack on the RB, ignoring 3 OL covering 1 Texan (the RE??) immediately after the snap. You know why I am singling out that play, because the result of that play is the focus of a lot of the discussion today. We know what bend don't break is. Which is largely holding the opposition in check, but then losing a coin flip. It hasn't been an accident for the ~2 decades we have been often featuring it. You can't just single out 16 points when they also scored a return TD. For with our feeble offense, they could bend don't break us to victory, and not press on offense. I would not call it a great game, and if you believe Gruden, that was not Reed's fault........or Smiths fault in the INT. In his News conference, Gruden said that pressure sped the play up and Alex had to throw before he wanted to, while Reed was not actually running a choice route. Just that the timing was off due to pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I watch the kick, it hit the middle up right then fell back into the endzone instead of through the uprights I don't think it did. I think the camera angle made it looks that way... but in reality it hit in the middle of the end zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk_Skins Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, KDawg said: I don't think it did. I think the camera angle made it looks that way... but in reality it hit in the middle of the end zone. I was sideline around the ten yard line that side and it never had a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzplay Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 hours ago, KDawg said: I agree with ya about the 4th and 10 part. But I think we spiked a time or two (can't remember) that we didn't need to and could have rushed to the LOS and got a play off. My position is more that we should have been on 3rd down there. But the OP clearly doesn't read like that. Good catch. Absolutely agree with you on this. We could have -- and should have -- run a play instead of spiking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, Morneblade said: I would not call it a great game, and if you believe Gruden, that was not Reed's fault........or Smiths fault in the INT. In his News conference, Gruden said that pressure sped the play up and Alex had to throw before he wanted to, while Reed was not actually running a choice route. Just that the timing was off due to pressure. Yeah - that's coach speak. Don't want to call players out in public. Whatever happened it was someone's fault, My money was it was Reeds fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, KDawg said: I don't think it did. I think the camera angle made it looks that way... but in reality it hit in the middle of the end zone. I think you may be right, I keep looking it up, but it bounces right where the bar is so really hard to tell from that angle. He absolutely would've made it if we got closer, and that was damn close anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Suffolk_Skins said: I was sideline around the ten yard line that side and it never had a chance. On TV it DID look like it hit the crossbar. I jumped out of my seat when it happened thinking it was going to bounce in. But then I realized the refs had already started their no good motion and that the ball bounced too far after contact for it to have hit the crossbar. But man did it look like it. Made for some unrealistic excitement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzplay Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 No issues with Hopkins on the kick. The dude has been very reliable this year, and is playing hurt. Like @KDawg said, with better clock mgmt (which has been an issue for this coach), we could've run a few extra plays (even ONE might have been enough) to move the ball close enough so that kick sails through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, KDawg said: On TV it DID look like it hit the crossbar. I jumped out of my seat when it happened thinking it was going to bounce in. But then I realized the refs had already started their no good motion and that the ball bounced too far after contact for it to have hit the crossbar. But man did it look like it. Made for some unrealistic excitement. The first second or so of that kick gave me such a jolt. When it was clear that the kick was going to stay online, for some reason I think I assumed he had the distance and got extremely excited for a moment there. Like you, I thought it had hit the crossbar and was confused that the refs weren't waiting for the bounce to determine if it was good - hahaha 1 minute ago, skinzplay said: No issues with Hopkins on the kick. The dude has been very reliable this year, and is playing hurt. Like @KDawg said, with better clock mgmt (which has been an issue for this coach), we could've run a few extra plays (even ONE might have been enough) to move the ball close enough so that kick sails through. One nit to pick...in that situation don't you make sure you hit it hard enough? Even if it's going to come out low? Again, the odds of drilling a 63 yarder into the breeze are low, but I really thought we'd see one of those kicks that never really even climbs higher than the uprights..more of a line drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, MartinC said: Yeah - that's coach speak. Don't want to call players out in public. Whatever happened it was someone's fault, My money was it was Reeds fault. You could certainly make a case for that. And to be frank, right now I don't see that as a bad thing. Need to rally the troops, not point fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dckey Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 27 minutes ago, TMK9973 said: 1 - While I agree with you in general. Hopkins did not donk the kick. IT fell about 6 yards short in the end zone. 2- What play are you talking about? the 3rd down play? Again -If the guy caught it right around the FG line (Which was 7 yards) then its 4th and 2 with about 8 seconds left and we cant spike it or get the FG team there. We needed to gain teh yards on 2nd. By 3rd down -Houston had everything at the sidelines covered. It was 19 seconds left and you would have time for a 4 sec play for 5-6yards and rush the fg unit on. Throwing deep takes more time off the clock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, Morneblade said: You could certainly make a case for that. And to be frank, right now I don't see that as a bad thing. Need to rally the troops, not point fingers. Calling out players in public is almost always a bad thing. Save that for the meeting room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbird2 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 hours ago, goskins10 said: Much more good here you are leaving out. 1. Alex was playing his best game as a Redskins before being injured. 2. The D was actually pretty good after a shaky start. They gave up 10 pts in the 1 Q then only 6 on 2 Fgs the rest of the game. The other TD was the pick 6. Yea, they had a few runs in the 2nd half. But the D stopped them. Only 6 pts in the 2nd half. 3. STs was very good again. They just keep playing great ball. 4. The makeshift O line played very very well. The pick 6 was on Reed. It is clear. You can;t improvise on the goal line. Alex threw a timing pass that has to be gone before Reed even makes his break. It's not the first time Reed has ran the wrong pattern. Reed needs to go after this season. Too much $$ tied up in 1 player for too little production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 The phantom holding call on Norman cost us the game...no way that call should've been made and we had to burn 3 timeouts because of it. I have total faith in Colt and believe he can win us the division...need to win 2 out of the next 3 division games putting us at 8 wins, 10 is the goal. Can Colt win 4 of 6? Gotta keep plugging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pittman4Two Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Hello friends. Just stopped by to say that I'm sorry for what happened to Alex Smith. I sincerely hope he has a speedy and fully recoveries all over him. ;) Rob Johnson is still available (somehow) on the free agency FA boards. All the best, Pittman4Two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, Pittman4Two said: Hello friends. Pitt, have you started your new job with the secret space force yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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