Starting QB 2019???

[bakedtater1]

So if km wasn't selected by the Cardinals would he slip past the Giants?

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

34 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Like I'v said before I'm usually not a fan of QB's that play the game like Kyler Murray but he was something special to watch on Saturdays this past fall. I'm neither a Oklahoma fan or a big college guy but i was literally checking the TV schedule every Saturday afternoon to see if they were playing because he was that fun to watch.

 

  As i get older I'm not quite as fanatical about the Redskins "wining" as I use to be. I;v become such a jaded fan my only hope year end and year out is to simply be competitive and be entertained. I think KM could do both . I'm all in on Murray despite Charley Casserly's criticism of him.

I want to quote my own post and add trading/losing picks to move up wouldn't be that devastating to this team. We have some great players and young talent, The issue is can we stay healthy for 16 games but thats a whole other discussion.

[Skinsinparadise]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/07/free-agency-under-radar-tyrell-williams-chargers-trent-brown-jamison-crowder

 

Breer who usually is pretty well sourced.  Hope its not A. Brown unless he's really cheap but am doubting he will be

 

I wouldn’t be totally stunned if the Redskins took a big swing or two. Maybe it’s Antonio Brown. Maybe it’s Josh Rosen. Their biggest problem in pulling off the former (not so much the latter, since Rosen is cheap) relates to their cap situation. And that’s why some eyes have been on Washington players who could wind up on the chopping block.

[Darth Tater]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for Rosen, I think I have one of the oddest position on him on this thread.  Don't love him.  Don't hate him.  But all in if they can get him for less than a first rounder. I do see a high bust potential with Rosen.  To me right now he's a walking turnover waiting to happen and epically so in Rex like proportions for reasons that go well beyond the Arizona O line.  So I can see the Giants or any team say pass, he's not our guy.   I still like Rosen though for a 2nd or 3rd round type of compensation because that's the flier range in the draft for QB, he's got beautiful throwing motion and footwork -- so as a flier I am all cool with Rosen's potential because he clearly has plenty of it.

There is some evidence that Rosen is a bust in the making, not just a potential bust like every quarterback in every draft ever.  That said, there is also at least as much potential that he can be a franchise/near franchise guy (or at least good enough to lead a team with a good defense and multiple offensive threats). A big part of me also says you should never overpay for a guy who is just potential.  By overpay, I mean give up more resources than you have to.  For example, if I was to go back to 2000, I would just tell the 'Skins to take Tom Brady over Quincy Sanders (along with just take Chris Samuels with our #2 overall pick and take either Brian or Julian instead of Lavar).

[skinny21]

A 2nd round pick for a potential franchise qb (Rosen) is a good deal of course.  A cheaper contract, the possibility that struggling with McCoy/Rosen means we likely have a higher draft slot next year, and may move on from Allen (and Gruden, but I’m more agnostic there)... these are, or could be positives.

These are some concerns I have though:

1) the talent likely available with our 2nd round pick - are we bypassing a stud receiver (Samuel, AJ or Marquis Brown, etc.), a stud db (Thornhill, Rapp, etc.) or a starting caliber guard?

2) does trading for Rosen make us less likely to take a shot at one of the top qbs in 2020?

3) do we essentially bid against ourselves for Rosen?  I have not been happy (to put it mildly) with Allen’s negotiating skills.  

4) does this affect head coach or GM candidates in 2020?  Obviously this is a much smaller concern, as it probably doesn’t have a big impact, but if we trade a future pick instead (or also)... who knows.  We’re already saddled with Smith’s contract, we’d be down a potential impact player (the positions I mentioned earlier), many of our top players are aging, etc.  

5) do we trade away another younger, cheaper, good player like Ioannidis (or Moreau, Roullier, Nicholson) in this deal?

[BurgundyBooger]

For the sake of self-preservation, drafting Rosen would be the genius move by Bruce/Jay. He'll go through the necessary growing pains as a rookie, and Bruce/Jay would argue that's the reason for yet another failed season and promise a better outcome in the following year once he's matured into the role and that switching regimes would be detrimental to his growth.

 

So yes, we're getting Rosen.

[skinny21]

Just now, BurgundyBooger said:

For the sake of self-preservation, drafting Rosen would be the genius move by Bruce/Jay. He'll go through the necessary growing pains as a rookie, and Bruce/Jay would argue that's the reason for yet another failed season and promise a better outcome in the following year once he's matured into the role and that switching regimes would be detrimental to his growth.

 

So yes, we're getting Rosen.

Yeah, I’ve been thinking this as well.  Going with a FA vet only is putting themselves even more firmly in a win now or else situation, which doesn’t make sense from a survival standpoint.  Even if we pick up a qb in the 3rd or 5th (whether or not we also sign a vet), it’s a lot tougher to argue they are the future then a qb like Rosen, Lock or Murray.  If it’s not one of those three (I suppose you could throw Jones into that mix, though I wouldn’t), the next best option for their sakes might be to work a trade that nets us another 1st rounder next year.  Essentially making the argument that they need another year to find their franchise qb, and in the meantime they’ve strengthened the team and have upped their chances at landing that guy with the additional pick.  

I hate having to look at this offseason from a “what’s the best move(s) they can make to retain their jobs?”.  It’s possible those moves correspond with a plan for making the team better for the future, but it’s far from certain.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

2 hours ago, RWJ said:

So many different stories.  On NFLN both Casserly and another person said they both heard that Rosen was being shopped now.  Schefter says they're not.  Who's laying the FAKE NEWS out there?  Somebody is.  Cardinals probably are.

 

Cardinal beat guys are saying they haven't made up their minds yet so the truth might be somewhere in between at this given time.  Even if they don't trade Rosen and pick Murray at #1 why not listen to what you'd get since it might be part of the soup in decision making on what action to take.

[volsmet]

45 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

There is some evidence that Rosen is a bust in the making, not just a potential bust like every quarterback in every draft ever.  That said, there is also at least as much potential that he can be a franchise/near franchise guy (or at least good enough to lead a team with a good defense and multiple offensive threats). A big part of me also says you should never overpay for a guy who is just potential.  By overpay, I mean give up more resources than you have to.  For example, if I was to go back to 2000, I would just tell the 'Skins to take Tom Brady over Quincy Sanders (along with just take Chris Samuels with our #2 overall pick and take either Brian or Julian instead of Lavar).

 

There is a far better chance that Rosen becomes a top 5 QB in the NFL than a bust. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Darth Tater said:

There is some evidence that Rosen is a bust in the making, not just a potential bust like every quarterback in every draft ever.  That said, there is also at least as much potential that he can be a franchise/near franchise guy (or at least good enough to lead a team with a good defense and multiple offensive threats). A big part of me also says you should never overpay for a guy who is just potential.  By overpay, I mean give up more resources than you have to.  For example, if I was to go back to 2000, I would just tell the 'Skins to take Tom Brady over Quincy Sanders (along with just take Chris Samuels with our #2 overall pick and take either Brian or Julian instead of Lavar).

 

How you phrased bust in the making versus the way I did potential bust -- OK, it meant the same to me so I am fine how you phrased it.  I've laid out in detail over the weekend what I saw positive and negative from Rosen so won't repeat it here.  But yeah I can see him succeed and I can see him equally likely to fail.  I'd lean positive.  And naturally every player in the draft clearly could bust -- its just about playing the odds. 

 

In that 2nd-3rd round range to me Rosen would be a hell of a find potentially because typically QBs taking in that range have IMO steeper odds against them than Rosen.  Rosen to me is more talented than the standard 2nd-3rd rounder.  But I am not sold his potential warrants a top half of the first round pick -- especially in this draft where I think the opportunity cost is high.  I think we have a good shot to have an unexpected fall of a prospect like an Ed Oliver, D. White, C. Ferrell, etc.  

 

35 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

There is a far better chance that Rosen becomes a top 5 QB in the NFL than a bust. 

 

Got to love the enthusiasm.  I wish I shared it.  But I do love the talent if its in the context of a 2nd-3rd rounder.    On Rosen, I can go either way on him but I see the potential. 

[RawRebel]

Wouldn't the acquisitions Of Nick Foles and Joe Flacco take Jags and Broncos out of drafting 1st rd QB's?

[HigSkin]

 

Retweeted by John Kiem

[wit33]

I see a personality fit with Jay and Rosen, not to mention his skill set as well. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

Just watched this.  In short:

 

A. They think the Cards haven't made up their mind

B.  So in the Cards shoes why not listen to offers and see what the market is for their #1 pick or Rosen.

C. Tim Hasselbeck wouldn't give up a first for Rosen but would to a deal for something less than that.  He doesn't think the Cards get a first.

D. The panel thinks it would be a good move for the Redskins to go get him

 

7 minutes ago, RawRebel said:

Wouldn't the acquisitions Of Nick Foles and Joe Flacco take Jags and Broncos out of drafting 1st rd QB's?

 

According to Denver reporters they think they could still take one, see Flacco as a stop gap.  Elway supposedly loves Drew Lock.

[supadrummer]

On 11/18/2018 at 5:43 PM, Springfield said:

Oooh, we love a good quarterback controversy, don’t we?

 

Snyder is champing at the bit for all of us dimwits to start speculating about who will be under center next season.  It’ll create interest, something that has been sorely lacking with this team.

 

Will it be a proven/unproven veteran like McCoy?  Will we draft a young stud?  Will we pick up a veteran in the offseason?  Will we trade for Tom Brady?

 

Whatever it is, Snyder has a rager... right now.

Whether or not Snyder wants us to speculate the Redskins are in a bind. The front office bet on Alex Smith and lost their shirt when it comes to salary cap. Its simple and no speculation is necessary. The team will need to pick up a veteran like Teddy Bridgewater or Tyrod Taylor to get us thru the season. The only speculation is who to resign from our own free agent list and how good or bad will the overall team do. The next question is whether Gruden stays or goes. Seen this too many times with other over paid players like Haynesworth. 

[OVCChairman]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

A. They think the Cards haven't made up their mind

B.  So in the Cards shoes why not listen to offers and see what the market is for their #1 pick or Rosen.

C. Tim Hasselbeck wouldn't give up a first for Rosen but would to a deal for something less than that.  He doesn't think the Cards get a first.

D. The panel thinks it would be a good move for the Redskins to go get him

 

 

 

 

 

 

soooo... they're reading ES.  

20 minutes ago, RawRebel said:

Wouldn't the acquisitions Of Nick Foles and Joe Flacco take Jags and Broncos out of drafting 1st rd QB's?

 

 

I said the same thing, but a poster on here changed my mind.  i think Denver could still be in play for 'the right guy' if he's here at their pick.  If Lock falls, I could see Denver picking him to groom.  

[sportjunkie07]

3 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

So if km wasn't selected by the Cardinals would he slip past the Giants?

He won't fall past the raiders. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Benoit who of all people I've listened to on this is the most enthusiastic

 

 

 

Some have speculated that the Redskins are a possible suitor for Rosen. Jay Gruden’s QB-friendly offense is meticulously detailed and built around on-scheduled throws, so it would be a tremendous fit for Rosen. In fact, stylistically, he would be an immediate upgrade over what the team had when Alex Smith was healthy. Rosen would attempt the aggressive on-schedule throws that Smith often passed up. Washington has the 15th overall pick. Trading that for Rosen (and his insanely cheap rookie contract) would be a mega steal. Getting him for anything less than the No. 15 pick would be grand larceny.

46 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

 

soooo... they're reading ES.  

 

Yep all points they made were made here including by me in that mix. Proves what we all suspected ES is the true driver of the NFL news cycle. 😀

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

I see a personality fit with Jay and Rosen, not to mention his skill set as well. 

 

I can see that.  The mystery for me with Rosen-Jay is can Jay tame down the gun slinger in Josh.  And is Josh's tendencies to throw into double coverage about not seeing the field or about just being overly aggressive. If its the later than I think it will work out well because it could be fixed.  If its the former than I have some worries. 

 

 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Got to love the enthusiasm.  I wish I shared it.  But I do love the talent if its in the context of a 2nd-3rd rounder.    On Rosen, I can go either way on him but I see the potential. 

 

Man man, S I P!

 

I don’t care about these guys one way or another, I just watch and they be what they be. I can’t comprehend a human watching Rosen and thinking he’s not worth 15. He can do far too many things to truly bust. I liked Goff more than Kirk after Goff’s rookie year, I don’t care about stats, there is plenty to the position that’s just obvious and Rosen has everything other than elite athleticism. I’d be more surprised if Will Grier ever starts an NFL game than if Rosen is a top 2 QB in the NFL in the next few years. I can’t stand mediocre QBs, I want the guy or a Matt Moore on the cheap to build around. Rosen doesn’t leave a lot for me to interpret, he’s calm in the pocket, his movement is as good as any QB I’ve ever seen in their first 5 years, he can make throws that only 3 or 4 other guys can make, he played the entirety of his rookie season at 21, his teammates like him, he doesn’t hang his head when a bum misses a block or drops a pass - I’d take him over all but 2-3 to start a franchise with; one of those 2-3 is currently at Clemson. Rosen is not all that far from being the QB prospect a QB coach would create from scratch, and it all shows up. He’s so much better than Haskins is laughable. If the Giants take Haskins over Rosen it will be the most fortunate day we have had in a long time.

 

If AZ asked for pick 15, I’d trade up to 7, then give them that pick, and Bruce Allen. 

 

Rosen is nearly a lock to be a top 7 QB over the next 10 years, probably top 5. I didn’t care one way or another about the guy before watching him last night, his life did not intersect with anything I needed to pay particularly close attention to — but now — if we actually land this guy, everything changes in DC. Everything. He’s that good. Imho etc.

 

 

 

 

[Skins Skeptic]

1 hour ago, RawRebel said:

Wouldn't the acquisitions Of Nick Foles and Joe Flacco take Jags and Broncos out of drafting 1st rd QB's?

 

I think the acquisition of Flacco makes it more likely that they draft a guy high, not less likely. The only way it doesn't is if they're in some kind of tank for Tua mode. I doubt that.

 

Foles, on the other hand, will be to the Jaguars what Cousins was to the Vikings last year. Their guy. 100%. If they draft, it will be to develop a backup.

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I can see that.  The mystery for me with Rosen-Jay is can Jay tame down the gun slinger in Josh.  And is Josh's tendencies to throw into double coverage about not seeing the field or about just being overly aggressive. If its the later than I think it will work out well because it could be fixed.  If its the former than I have some worries. 

 

 

I think it will cost more.  As stated before I think it will come down to our 1st but believe he's worth it.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, BurgundyBooger said:

For the sake of self-preservation, drafting Rosen would be the genius move by Bruce/Jay. He'll go through the necessary growing pains as a rookie, and Bruce/Jay would argue that's the reason for yet another failed season and promise a better outcome in the following year once he's matured into the role and that switching regimes would be detrimental to his growth.

 

So yes, we're getting Rosen.

 

That would also apply to drafting a QB, though, not just to Rosen.

[wit33]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I can see that.  The mystery for me with Rosen-Jay is can Jay tame down the gun slinger in Josh.  And is Josh's tendencies to throw into double coverage about not seeing the field or about just being overly aggressive. If its the later than I think it will work out well because it could be fixed.  If its the former than I have some worries. 

 

 

 

Jay has experience doing it with Kirk— reeling him in and helping to discover an overall comfort zone (Sean as well). 

 

Rosen from afar would seem to fulfill Jays quest of finding a guy with arm talent to make all throws and psyche to go for it situationally. I’d imagine from a coaching standpoint that being exciting to help mold from a current baseline perspective. 

 

Rosen is a machine fundamentally and Jay has the play call ability to give Rosen spots to throw to consistently.  Intriguing. Need talent at that position in building ASAP. 

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Man man, S I P!

 

I don’t care about these guys one way or another, I just watch and they be what they be. I can’t comprehend a human watching Rosen and thinking he’s not worth 15. He can do far too many things to truly bust. I liked Goff more than Kirk after Goff’s rookie year, I don’t care about stats, there is plenty to the position that’s just obvious and Rosen has everything other than elite athleticism. I’d be more surprised if Will Grier ever starts an NFL game than if Rosen is a top 2 QB in the NFL in the next few years. I can’t stand mediocre QBs, I want the guy or a Matt Moore on the cheap to build around. Rosen doesn’t leave a lot for me to interpret, he’s calm in the pocket, his movement is as good as any QB I’ve ever seen in their first 5 years, he can make throws that only 3 or 4 other guys can make, he played the entirety of his rookie season at 21, his teammates like him, he doesn’t hang his head when a bum misses a block or drops a pass - I’d take him over all but 2-3 to start a franchise with; one of those 2-3 is currently at Clemson. Rosen is not all that far from being the QB prospect a QB coach would create from scratch, and it all shows up. He’s so much better than Haskins is laughable. If the Giants take Haskins over Rosen it will be the most fortunate day we have had in a long time.

 

If AZ asked for pick 15, I’d trade up to 7, then give them that pick, and Bruce Allen. 

 

Rosen is nearly a lock to be a top 7 QB over the next 10 years, probably top 5. I didn’t care one way or another about the guy before watching him last night, his life did not intersect with anything I needed to pay particularly close attention to — but now — if we actually land this guy, everything changes in DC. Everything. He’s that good. Imho etc.

 

 

 

 

 

Even though I don't agree with anywhere near this level of enthusiasm, I liked your post because I dig how intense you are about this dude and I'd love for you to be right. 

 

I've watched Rosen on and off for years as I do for most major school QBs.  But didn't really study him until recently  And I dived deeper into him than the other QBs we talk about on the draft thread.  And yeah I can see what people could love about him -- his footwork, balance, movement in the pocket, throwing motion looks like poetry.  And he's tough and hangs in the pocket.   I am not much of a tennis fan but my wife is so sometimes I end up watching her guy Federer.  And Federer just has great balance-footwork and is poetry in motion at his game.  Rosen who played tennis has that look about him as a QB.     But his decision making IMO is atrocious.   And I don't know if that can be fixed.  But I'll trust Jay and company if they think it could be.  Mike Leach says decision making is the 2nd most important attribute to have for a QB and IMO Rosen has a lot of work to do in that department.

 

But by and large, i am a friend to the pro Rosen people here.  I've posted as much pro Rosen stuff on this thread as anyone.  Even though I don't share your level of enthusiasm, I am cool with a 2nd rounder for him, love it if its a third.  I'll turn against it if its a first or multiple high picks.  Bruce IMO tends to overpay in trades.  So I am a bit nervous about what they'd give up.  but if they get the dude for just a 2nd or better yet just a third -- I'll applaud it big time. 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Jay has experience doing it with Kirk— reeling him in and helping to discover an overall comfort zone (Sean as well). 

 

Rosen from afar would seem to fulfill Jays quest of finding a guy with arm talent to make all throws and psyche to go for it situationally. I’d imagine from a coaching standpoint that being exciting to help mold from a current baseline perspective. 

 

Rosen is a machine fundamentally and Jay has the play call ability to give Rosen spots to throw to consistently.  Intriguing. Need talent at that position in building ASAP. 

 

Agree with all of this.  And I've made similar points.