Starting QB 2019???

[goskins10]

For those thinking Rosen - here is an article that lists three teams interested in Rosen and the Redskins are not one of them. The Rosen to NE idea seems to be gaining steam. I am Ok either way. If they can get him for a 2nd - the article says that's already been offered and rejected by AZ - then OK. Not interested in a 1st. With a few other teams involved that will make him too expensive in my mind.

 

I just hope that not getting Rosen doesn't trigger another mega deal to move up and get a QB day 1.

 

https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2019/03/new-england-patriots-interested-in-acquiring-cardinals-qb-josh-rosen-report.html

 

[bowhunter]

51 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

For those thinking Rosen - here is an article that lists three teams interested in Rosen and the Redskins are not one of them. The Rosen to NE idea seems to be gaining steam. I am Ok either way. If they can get him for a 2nd - the article says that's already been offered and rejected by AZ - then OK.

 

I have a sneaky suspicion that the "source" of this article is the AZ FO, simply trying to up the price of admission in the Rosen sweepstakes. No one knows what really has been offered but them and they have a strong incentive to act as if there's a  high stakes bidding war. I'm fine with offering this years 3rd along with next years 3. If rejected, use this years 3rd on a player to develop. 

[goskins10]

26 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I have a sneaky suspicion that the "source" of this article is the AZ FO, simply trying to up the price of admission in the Rosen sweepstakes. No one knows what really has been offered but them and they have a strong incentive to act as if there's a  high stakes bidding war. I'm fine with offering this years 3rd along with next years 3. If rejected, use this years 3rd on a player to develop. 

 

You could very well be right. It could also be Rosen's agent who is drumming up a sense of urgency for his client. This time of year you can't really believe too much of what is written. The only thing that did make sense to be where the teams discussed. 

 

We will see. The next month should be very interesting. 

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

For those thinking Rosen - here is an article that lists three teams interested in Rosen and the Redskins are not one of them. The Rosen to NE idea seems to be gaining steam. I am Ok either way. If they can get him for a 2nd - the article says that's already been offered and rejected by AZ - then OK. Not interested in a 1st. With a few other teams involved that will make him too expensive in my mind.

 

I just hope that not getting Rosen doesn't trigger another mega deal to move up and get a QB day 1.

 

https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2019/03/new-england-patriots-interested-in-acquiring-cardinals-qb-josh-rosen-report.html

 

 

I could see the Rosen to NE thing, though if the work ethic stuff is legit I think Belichick would pass. Only issue is that one of the big upsides of getting Rosen is his contract. But assuming that Brady doesn't retire for another couple years by the time Rosen could take over he'd be at the end of his rookie contract.

 

Interesting take...Joel Klatt has NE taking Will Grier at 32. I could see it, though his age may be an issue if he's going to sit for 2-3 years (he'll be 24 this coming month). Skip loves that move and thinks Grier is the 2nd best QB in the draft (which probably means he'll be a bust now. Thanks, Skip).

 

 

[The Consigliere]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My take on Rosen which I put here weeks back was purely his college tape which IMO is good with some nice moments but is far from always being great.

 

I saw somewhere a scout once say stats wise they look for college qbs with 63% or high completion rates, 3:1 TD-INT ratios and high YPA. None of which Rosen accomplished aside from YPA being decent. Though he came close one season.  Darnold for example had better stats in all those categories. There is a reason IMO Rosen was the 4th QB taken and went #10.   Qbs who are blatantly special go top 5 typically.

 

My point is Rosen wasn't just some killer QB in college who just underperfomed in Arizona. I recall Rosen's hype early in his college career and people then thought he would emerge as an elite college QB but that never really happened. He was good but came short of expectations. Thats at least how I recall it.

 

If trading for Rosen works out. IMO that would be the first QB trade in Dan's long tenure that does. My gut is 50-50 Rosen works out.  And I think he either will be really good or awful. I don't see much in between. I explained why in detail previously. 

 

I am far from in love with Rosen. It wouldn't shock me at all of he joins the ranks of Locker, Gabbert, etc who were drafted in the same range. But if its a 2nd Rd pick, what the heck? Because heck it could work out, too. He certainly has some nice tools.

 

The work ethic questions about Rosen would be a deal breaker for me if they are true.  One of those reports came from a dude who is a really big fan of Rosen. If it were just Casserly, I'd blow it off.

 

On another note for what it's worth, Finlay thinks they go qb rd 1 or 2. As I said on the draft thread so many conflicting takes as to what they are thinking behind the scenes.

 

It makes me think about Hoffman's take on things awhile back which is they are still in the process of making up their minds and haven't landed on a position yet.

.

Call me someone whose never heard such negative takes on his work ethic pretty much ever. Could be I just missed him, but he tends to get hit pieces written about him because he's kind of the Trevor Bauer of Pro Football. Just clueless in terms of what to say and what not too publicly. He's got a gnarly personality and is smart as hell and like many smart guys, that rubs some coaches the wrong way.

 

Not sure what will happen with him but I'm a believer in his talent. Would agree that things didn't work out as expected at UCLA but that was pretty much true of every prospect that came through hoping for better things with a former NFL Head Coach in charge. DIdn't happen for any of them. We'll see. If we don't trade for him, it's not the end of the world, I just really fear if there will be an easier or cheaper opportunity to address the QB position with franchise upside and at that good of odds of coming through? Only Too and Lawrence are at his level in terms of prospects to me in a pro style offense. I think Haskins is interesting but not there, and Kyler is a different type of talent entirely. Will we be bad enough for Tua in '20? Doesn't seem like it. Other teams are clearly tanking and we are confused like the Giants. Maybe we implode in '20 and get Lawrence, but if Lawrence, Tua, Rosen, or I suppose Haskins aren't are QB in '21, I'll be hard pressed to imagine our future as anything better than the '08-'14 misery or the current iteration. We need one of these guys. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Not sure what will happen with him but I'm a believer in his talent. Would agree that things didn't work out as expected at UCLA but that was pretty much true of every prospect that came through hoping for better things with a former NFL Head Coach in charge. DIdn't happen for any of them. We'll see. If we don't trade for him, it's not the end of the world, I just really fear if there will be an easier or cheaper opportunity to address the QB position with franchise upside and at that good of odds of coming through? Only Too and Lawrence are at his level in terms of prospects to me in a pro style offense. I think Haskins is interesting but not there, and Kyler is a different type of talent entirely. Will we be bad enough for Tua in '20? Doesn't seem like it. Other teams are clearly tanking and we are confused like the Giants. Maybe we implode in '20 and get Lawrence, but if Lawrence, Tua, Rosen, or I suppose Haskins aren't are QB in '21, I'll be hard pressed to imagine our future as anything better than the '08-'14 misery or the current iteration. We need one of these guys. 

 

 

 

I am not as sold on him. But I like your enthusiasm and respect that you are high on him especially considering it's clear you put in some time to assess him.  Scouts often miss on QBs so naturally I am not pretending I have it down with any certainty about Rosen or anyone else.

 

I've watched multiple games of almost all of the potential targets at QB including Rosen.  So I am just riding with my amateur take based on what I saw. I wrote my take on Rosen including showing clips weeks ago.  All UCLA games. I watched his 2nd game against Seattle in the pros and I thought he was atrocious in that one. But I'll give him a break as for his play in Arizona.

 

My cliff notes version of my observations is I loved the dude's footwork, quick release, and delivery.  I didn't love his touch on short throws and his decision making to me at times seemed really bad.  He could get away with throwing into double  coverage at times with UCLA but it doesn't shock me he had INT issues in Arizona. 

 

There is a crap shoot aspect to the process. And Rosen has tools so if Jay ultimately thinks he can help improve Rosen's decision making, then I'll take that ride.

 

I am OK with trading for him. But I don't like the idea of trading a first. But I'd be jazzed if they can get him for a 2nd.

[Est.1974]

Giants have supposedly offered #37 for Rosen,

 

Telling you, our #15 for Rosen and the Cards #33 is a better deal. 

[The Consigliere]

Me too, I'd take him for a 2nd, or a 3rd, I just don't have a problem trading a 1st for a guy that was generally the 1A or 1B depending upon the analyst in an absolutely loaded class as compared to this crap one. The odds he proves out are well worth that cost, and definitely worth a 2nd and definitely a better decision than trading up for Kyler or Haskins considering the cost for such a move. 

[bakedtater1]

37 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Giants have supposedly offered #37 for Rosen,

 

Telling you, our #15 for Rosen and the Cards #33 is a better deal. 

Soooooo what your saying is we give the cards #15 we get Rosen and there second round pick?

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

Call me someone whose never heard such negative takes on his work ethic pretty much ever. Could be I just missed him, but he tends to get hit pieces written about him because he's kind of the Trevor Bauer of Pro Football. Just clueless in terms of what to say and what not too publicly. He's got a gnarly personality and is smart as hell and like many smart guys, that rubs some coaches the wrong way.

 

Not sure what will happen with him but I'm a believer in his talent. Would agree that things didn't work out as expected at UCLA but that was pretty much true of every prospect that came through hoping for better things with a former NFL Head Coach in charge. DIdn't happen for any of them. We'll see. If we don't trade for him, it's not the end of the world, I just really fear if there will be an easier or cheaper opportunity to address the QB position with franchise upside and at that good of odds of coming through? Only Too and Lawrence are at his level in terms of prospects to me in a pro style offense. I think Haskins is interesting but not there, and Kyler is a different type of talent entirely. Will we be bad enough for Tua in '20? Doesn't seem like it. Other teams are clearly tanking and we are confused like the Giants. Maybe we implode in '20 and get Lawrence, but if Lawrence, Tua, Rosen, or I suppose Haskins aren't are QB in '21, I'll be hard pressed to imagine our future as anything better than the '08-'14 misery or the current iteration. We need one of these guys. 

 

 

 

Outside of a rule change, Lawrence won't be available until the 2021 draft. He was a true freshman this past season. Next draft will be headlined by Tua, Fromm, and Herbert most likely. 

[Est.1974]

11 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Soooooo what your saying is we give the cards #15 we get Rosen and there second round pick?

 

Yep, equivalent value of a high second rounder. What's not to love right.

[bakedtater1]

6 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Yep, equivalent value of a high second rounder. What's not to love right.

Makes sense..I thought about it and I like it..sign me up!

[Skin'emAlive]

I would be on the verge of quitting on this franchise if we traded our #1 for Rosen. He’s not that good. I was looking back at the 2018 draft thread and every criticism of Rosen came true last year. I’ve never seen a franchise bail on its cornerstone player 1 year in to his career like Arizona is doing with Rosen now.... and people want to trade the farm for that guy? That’s crazy. 

I mean think about this for a second. NY trading for Rosen means Haskins is available to one of maybe 4 teams : Miami, Denver, Cincinnati, and Washington. Why get in a bidding war for Rosen when NY acquiring him drops the price for Haskins? 

[LightningBuggs]

8 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

I would be on the verge of quitting on this franchise if we traded our #1 for Rosen. He’s not that good. I was looking back at the 2018 draft thread and every criticism of Rosen came true last year. I’ve never seen a franchise bail on its cornerstone player 1 year in to his career like Arizona is doing with Rosen now.... and people want to trade the farm for that guy? That’s crazy. 

I mean think about this for a second. NY trading for Rosen means Haskins is available to one of maybe 4 teams : Miami, Denver, Cincinnati, and Washington. Why get in a bidding war for Rosen when NY acquiring him drops the price for Haskins? 

 

I think many people are fascinated by the fact that he was a top ten pick and overlook the fact that not only was he not good last year, he wasn’t a stud in college either. 

 

Trading a 1st for him is an absolutely horrible idea. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Giants have supposedly offered #37 for Rosen,

 

Telling you, our #15 for Rosen and the Cards #33 is a better deal. 

 

Thought Klatt said or soneone else that the Giants, Pats, Chargers are most interested in Rosen but only the Chargers thus far offered a 2nd?  Or maybe it was someone else who said it but recall the tweet.

 

On another note, just listened to Keim's podcast and in it he said the Redskins haven't yet heavily dived into Rosen's film but he expects they will. I presume that means his Arizona film.

 

Keim doubled down that if they go qb in the draft they'd want one who can win right away.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I hope we don't give up #15 for Rosen. That thought will come back to bite me in the ass if he becomes a legit franchise QB for someone else lol...but I think there are too many question marks on him to give up anything above a 2nd rounder. if the Skins somehow traded back and ended up with the player they targeted at #15 along with at least an additional 2nd rounder, I wouldn't be too upset at doing a draft day trade of both 2nd rounders for Rosen. If he's still available, that is.

[Skin'emAlive]

Rosen was the 4th! Qb chosen last year. Sure he was a top 10 pick. But there were 3 other teams needing a qb and they passed on him, while after a year, the cards are ready to pass on him as well. The 4th qb taken in this draft very well could be Daniel Jones Or Will Grier. Are you all really ok using a 1st or high second on either of those guys? 

[SemperFi Skins]

56 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Rosen was the 4th! Qb chosen last year. Sure he was a top 10 pick. But there were 3 other teams needing a qb and they passed on him, while after a year, the cards are ready to pass on him as well. The 4th qb taken in this draft very well could be Daniel Jones Or Will Grier. Are you all really ok using a 1st or high second on either of those guys? 

 

By all accounts last years QB class was much better than this year. Rosen being the 4th qb speaks to the talent taken last year. Similar to what people think next years class will be with Tua/Fromm and then of course Lawrence in 2021. 

 

Not a good comparison IMO

 

side note: I had Rosen and Darnold tied for second best qb in the draft last year behind Mayfield

[Anselmheifer]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim doubled down that if they go qb in the draft they'd want one who can win right away.  

 

Typical Redskins and so dumb. Who cares if we are good next year. This team has mostly been making me miserable for 25 years. Find the prospect who is going to be the best QB over the next 12 years and draft that guy!

[beachboy757]

Is there a big difference between the skillset of a QB like Rosen and these other Qb's like Daniel Hones, Will Grier, and Drew Locke? When I see their highlights they all look like the same QB.  They should all be able to run the offense that Kirk Cousins was running while here.

 

Also, I was wondering why there is such a dislike for Daniel Jones?  He looks like the QB that will least likely to become an INT machine. His playing style is boring, but I think paired with a good RB and def he would be a good fit for our offense.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, beachboy757 said:

Is there a big difference between the skillset of a QB like Rosen and these other Qb's like Daniel Hones, Will Grier, and Drew Locke? When I see their highlights they all look like the same QB.  They should all be able to run the offense that Kirk Cousins was running while here.

 

Also, I was wondering why there is such a dislike for Daniel Jones?  He looks like the QB that will least likely to become an INT machine. His playing style is boring, but I think paired with a good RB and def he would be a good fit for our offense.

 

Daniel Jones has his share of turnovers, including leading the eligibles draft qbs in fumbles,   He takes a lot of sacks, had a lot of tipped balls, and had his shares of Ints too.   What's odd about Jones' turnovers is his offense was mostly about short passes-quick game.  His YPA number was pathetic. His accuracy beyond 10 yards is poor. Someone charted it and I posted it on the draft thread. So a lot of turnovers and surprisngly so for a dude who doesn't take a lot of risks.

 

IMO some of his weaknesses are the polar opposite of Rosen. Rosen IMO can be too daring, looks to throw long too much. Jones doesn't seem to like to throw into tight windows and prefers to go short.  Rosen can be outspoken whereas Jones is so quiet and seemingly shy that he makes his pal Eli seem boisterous in comparison.  I don't mind Rosen's personality. But Jones' low pulse demeanor with seemingly no sense of humor or oomph of any kind seems odd to me for a qb.

 

I'd easily take Rosen or Lock over Jones. Probably Grier, too.  But Casserly seems to worship Jones. I take it with a grain of salt though since months back he was touting Jones while admitting he hadn't watched him much. But he loved that he looked like he had the size and throwing motion that reminded him of Peyton and he had Peyton's qb coach.

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

7 hours ago, beachboy757 said:

Is there a big difference between the skillset of a QB like Rosen and these other Qb's like Daniel Hones, Will Grier, and Drew Locke? When I see their highlights they all look like the same QB.  They should all be able to run the offense that Kirk Cousins was running while here.

 

Also, I was wondering why there is such a dislike for Daniel Jones?  He looks like the QB that will least likely to become an INT machine. His playing style is boring, but I think paired with a good RB and def he would be a good fit for our offense.

 

Someone else posted in one of the threads, a statistical analysis that said that with a high degreee of certainty, your college production is your ceiling for your first four years in the pro’s. Which is to say, not every QB with good collegiate stats is an NFL success, but that no QB that didn’t stand out in college is going to be able to do it initially in the NFL.

 

more to the point, Daniel Jones is terrible. In 4 years of college he never posted 7.0 YPA OR 3,000 yards. There is no successful QB in the history of the NFL that was so non productive in college. 

 

Who cares if he is big and can run and is tough and had had a good coach? He can’t pass the football. If he had such a good coach, and was still so non productive, then his ceiling is just that much lower. 

 

Edit:If we start Jones in the first, I’m going to do the smart thing and give up on the team and follow a couple of other teams instead. 

[bakedtater1]

8 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Typical Redskins and so dumb. Who cares if we are good next year. This team has mostly been making me miserable for 25 years. Find the prospect who is going to be the best QB over the next 12 years and draft that guy!

I care if the skins are good next year...I care every year they exist..if you've made it 25 years being soooo miserable what makes ya think the next 12 will be better?

[beachboy757]

Ok. Thanks for the responses about Daniel Jones. His highlights videos look good, but hearing that played bad in a short passing attack is concerning. 

[mistertim]

15 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

I would be on the verge of quitting on this franchise if we traded our #1 for Rosen. He’s not that good. I was looking back at the 2018 draft thread and every criticism of Rosen came true last year. I’ve never seen a franchise bail on its cornerstone player 1 year in to his career like Arizona is doing with Rosen now.... and people want to trade the farm for that guy? That’s crazy. 

I mean think about this for a second. NY trading for Rosen means Haskins is available to one of maybe 4 teams : Miami, Denver, Cincinnati, and Washington. Why get in a bidding war for Rosen when NY acquiring him drops the price for Haskins? 

 

How is the equivalent of a 2nd rounder for Rosen giving up the farm? The poster earlier who talked about giving up our 1st gave the caveat that we also get Arizona's 2nd. And with Haskins you want us to trade up for him? If so, you're ok with actually giving up the farm to move up for Haskins who has some good skills but who also has some question marks and is a one year wonder?

 

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Thought Klatt said or soneone else that the Giants, Pats, Chargers are most interested in Rosen but only the Chargers thus far offered a 2nd?  Or maybe it was someone else who said it but recall the tweet.

 

On another note, just listened to Keim's podcast and in it he said the Redskins haven't yet heavily dived into Rosen's film but he expects they will. I presume that means his Arizona film.

 

Keim doubled down that if they go qb in the draft they'd want one who can win right away.  

 

See, to me this is madness. IMO this QB class is one of the least likely in recent memory to produce a day 1 NFL ready plug and play QB. Murry could potentially do it if he lands with a really innovative coach who is willing to adapt his system to suit Murray's particular skill set but outside of that I don't see it as Murray still only had 1 year of college production. Haskins has some pro QB level skills but is also a 1 year wonder, has mediocre footwork, doesn't have escapability, and had really good protection and a whole stable full of 4.4 and under track star receivers who were all YAC monsters. Lock has more experience but he also had a really good OL and seemed to wilt under pressure many times. Jones is just all around meh. Grier has experience but needs to work on getting his mechanics more consistent, reign in his gunslinger mentality, and get used to a more pro style system.

 

They're setting themselves up for failure if they're looking to this draft for a QB who will be able to start and win immediately. It's beyond stupid.

 

8 hours ago, beachboy757 said:

Is there a big difference between the skillset of a QB like Rosen and these other Qb's like Daniel Hones, Will Grier, and Drew Locke? When I see their highlights they all look like the same QB.  They should all be able to run the offense that Kirk Cousins was running while here.

 

Also, I was wondering why there is such a dislike for Daniel Jones?  He looks like the QB that will least likely to become an INT machine. His playing style is boring, but I think paired with a good RB and def he would be a good fit for our offense.

 

Rosen's footwork and mechanics overall were far superior to any QB in this class and he also came from a mostly pro style system. He was way more polished and NFL ready. Yes his first year in the NFL wasn't good but that was far from all his fault for multiple reasons.

 

As @Skinsinparadisenoted, Jones definitely had his share of turnovers. He also pointed out the issues Jones had with tipped passes and fumbles. I've watched all of the cutups I could find of his games and one of the things that stood out to me, and a reason I think he has so many tipped balls and a decent amount of INTs, is that he has a propensity to stare down a single receiver big time. He doesn't always do it but he does it with far more regularity than i'm comfortable with (most college QBs do it to at least a limited extent because they can get away with it)...and in the NFL that would move him from a tipped ball machine into an INT machine with a quickness.