Renegade7

Starting QB 2019???

Who should be the starting QB in 2019???  

401 members have voted

  1. 1. Who should be the starting QB in 2019???

    • Alex Smith
      28
    • Colt McCoy
      66
    • Trade for a Veteran
      8
    • Sign a Veteran
      29
    • First Round Pick (2019 draft class)
      65
    • Non-First Round Pick (2019 draft class)
      37
    • Too Early to Answer
      63
    • I don't know yet
      22
    • We're screwed (at least at QB for 2019)
      83


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3 hours ago, desertbeagle85 said:

Here's the thing with Rosen. If we were together trade for him. The Skins would be almost forced to keep Gruden on for awhile longer. It wouldn't be good for Rosen to have to learn a new system 3 years in a row. 

 

Hell I think he had 2 different offensive coordinators in his 1st year. That's not good for new QBs. 

 

Rosen had 3 different OCs in College and as you say 2 in his first year in the NFL. That's not a good way to develop a QB.

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Posted (edited)

Oh boy...I suppose if you want to wait until next year this makes sense...

 

 

Edited by HigSkin

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5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Agree on a 1st for Rosen, but I don't see what's wrong with a 2nd. He had a rough rookie year but the deck was also completely stacked against him. The play calling was abysmal,  he had an OC who got fired during the season, and literally the worst rated OL in the league (according to PFF IIRC). There was a statistic posted earlier on this page stating that Rosen was sacked 17 times within 2.5 seconds of the snap..

 

He also had the 2nd worst QB rating in the league from a clean pocket. So he played poorly under pressure or without pressure last year.

 

I don't always agree with Cooley but I often agree with him. I am with Cooley on Rosen, I think he is a major wildcard and not worth a first rounder.

 

Cooley I think takes it too far and says he isnt worth a 2nd rounder either. I disagree with him there.

 

I agree with you, a wild card type at qb is worth a 2nd round pick.

 

Personally, I am not losing sleep over Rosen one way or another as long as we don't give up a first. 

 

 

 

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Gruden can't talk about Rosen because he's under contract with the Cards.  I think he's the Skin's target.  Time will tell.  We have a month to go before we know.

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10 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Gruden can't talk about Rosen because he's under contract with the Cards.  I think he's the Skin's target.  Time will tell.  We have a month to go before we know.

 

Bruce basically said on the interview linked above that it's been discussed at this meeting the players that will be available for trade depending on what happens in this draft. That simply must include Rosen. Interestingly the Cards originally picked at #15 and traded that plus a 3rd and 5th to effectively get Rosen. Might give an idea of trade price now.

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Just read that we did indeed have to do a 2nd surgery on McCoy because we rushed him back early, and it caused a problem, so the 2nd was essential to make sure he was all healed to start the season.  So Im guessing that makes him an even bigger longshot to start.  It is truly amazing how bad this staff and anyone associated with it at preventing injuries, and healing them.

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2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Bruce basically said on the interview linked above that it's been discussed at this meeting the players that will be available for trade depending on what happens in this draft. That simply must include Rosen. Interestingly the Cards originally picked at #15 and traded that plus a 3rd and 5th to effectively get Rosen. Might give an idea of trade price now.

I'd be all in.  :)

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Personally, I am not losing sleep over Rosen one way or another as long as we don't give up a first. 

I don't care about Rosen at all and hope that someone else trades for him.  He's a bust already in my book and has developed negatively.  Actually got a hitch step after last year that takes away from the previous positive grade of having good footwork.  I'll take Case Keenum over Josh Rosen at this point for sure.  Essentially Josh Rosen is trending down and had questionable football mindset before he was drafted.  Now, after getting tooled his first year, that's even worse.  His head isn't right and many experts are saying that he's more then likely taken psychological hits that he won't ever recover from.   I think Rosen is a 100% pass.  Let the Giants trade for him. 

 

Just have to watch the first 3 min to see the late hitch step that he's developed:

 

Edited by TheShredder
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3 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

Lmfao you really wanna be torched for the next decade?

 

Rosen is not good.  How is he going to torch the Skins?

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1 hour ago, LightningBuggs said:

 

Rosen is not good.  How is he going to torch the Skins?

And you make that conclusion based off one year in a trash system?

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So I guess Colt McCoy is a big fan of raw milk anybody else see that article in pro football talk?... I guess he wants a cow that produces raw milk.. well I might be able to hook him up lol... He knows somebody that I know so I'm going to try to get Colt McCoy hooked up with a cow from a dairy farm I deliver milk for lol doooohhhhh

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Basically saying  Chargers are only team to have offerd a 2nd round pick so far for Rosen

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Yep, surprised that we haven't been mentioned in the bidding.  Time will tell though how much we think of Rosen.

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Guess I am back to believing the FO only wants rookies who can make an immediate impact in the early rounds not a young QB who might have to sit for most of the season. 

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19 hours ago, TheShredder said:

I don't care about Rosen at all and hope that someone else trades for him.  He's a bust already in my book and has developed negatively.  Actually got a hitch step after last year that takes away from the previous positive grade of having good footwork.  I'll take Case Keenum over Josh Rosen at this point for sure.  Essentially Josh Rosen is trending down and had questionable football mindset before he was drafted.  Now, after getting tooled his first year, that's even worse.  His head isn't right and many experts are saying that he's more then likely taken psychological hits that he won't ever recover from.   I think Rosen is a 100% pass.  Let the Giants trade for him. 

 

Just have to watch the first 3 min to see the late hitch step that he's developed:

 

 

Did you watch the whole thing where he also noted how horrible the offensive play calling was, how horrible his OL was, and how Rosen also did some really good things? He goes out of his way at the end to say that he thinks Rosen is actually close to being a really good NFL QB if he can work on a couple of things and get with a coach/system that isn't awful. 

 

There are certainly some question marks with Rosen but given that it was his rookie year and that he had an almost perfect storm of **** around him I think it's way too early to label him a bust.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Did you watch the whole thing where he also noted how horrible the offensive play calling was, how horrible his OL was, and how Rosen also did some really good things? He goes out of his way at the end to say that he thinks Rosen is actually close to being a really good NFL QB if he can work on a couple of things and get with a coach/system that isn't awful. 

 

There are certainly some question marks with Rosen but given that it was his rookie year and that he had an almost perfect storm of **** around him I think it's way too early to label him a bust.

Yes, of course I did.  My points were made in my post.

The experts (which are not us) point to a heavily weighted positive progression being paramount in the psychological issues that drag a young QB into oblivion when all these types of negatives compound.  My view is that Rosen absolutely needs to get out of AZ as fast as possible to save his career.  He's not getting better and it's destroying his potential.  I said he was already a bust in my book because I've seen enough.  I don't want to see the Skins send a 1st round pick for him.  That's what appears to be the asking price.  It's getting pricey for a guy on the downtrend.  From this fans perspective, I don't want to be forced to root for him. His heart doesn't seem to be in it from his self proclaimed off field distractions.  Here's an article that shows he's a Millenial to the core:

 

https://thelab.bleacherreport.com/a-beautiful-brash-mind/

This is a boy who was raised in affluence and speaks and acts for social justice of the less fortunate. A young man who doesn't need money and raises it for those who do.

A sophomore quarterback at UCLA who has been told over and over by his coach that every single thing he says and does will be analyzed and scrutinized by the NFL—the place where his football dreams can come true—and can't hold back on any controversial subject that comes up.

"His personality absolutely could be a problem for some teams," an NFC scout warns. "Some want franchise-type players, quarterbacks specifically, who don't rock the boat. Better to be seen than heard."

And yet...What do you think about concussions, Josh?

"The whole CTE thing is completely overblown," he answers.

 

There's other articles that go into his leadership ability and that specifically point to huge question marks about his ability to be the leader of a pro team.  At this point it's obvious to me that he's too much of a risk.  His stats were ultimately comparable to Sam Darnold and Josh Allen's in their 1st year.  However, neither Darnold nor Allen have question marks like Josh Rosen.  If you would ask me if I would trade a 1st rounder for either of those two guys, absolutely.  Josh Rosen, hell no bro!  If AZ actually gets out of this bad decision by picking up a 1st rounder, when they take a better QB with the #1 overall pick, then someone took the bait.

Edited by TheShredder

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Posted (edited)

I don't think most of us are advocating a 1st for Rosen. I'm certainly not. But I would have no problem giving up a 2nd for him. Apparently the Cards may want more but at the end of the day I don't see them getting it; they're probably gonna have to settle for a 2nd unless the Giants stay dumb and give up their #17. 

 

As far as his leadership on the field, I haven't ever really read anything bad about it that I can recall; do you have links to articles? Not being snarky, I'm honestly curious. Now, there's the fact that he has a strong personality and is outspoken which to me is more of a potential PR issue than anything else but that doesn't make it invalid. 

 

The film study however is an issue if he truly is a bit lazy when it comes to that. If that's true I'd probably steer clear. 

 

As far as Darnold or Allen, I'd likely give up a 1st for Darnold, but I'd be very hesitant about Allen. IMO Allen was very overdrafted. I think he was a good college QB with extremely questionable accuracy, very good athleticism for his size, and an absolute rocket launcher arm. It was almost exclusively his arm talent that got him drafted so high, at least in my opinion.

Edited by mistertim

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2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

There are certainly some question marks with Rosen but given that it was his rookie year and that he had an almost perfect storm of **** around him I think it's way too early to label him a bust.

 

And the Redskins would be the team to turn this guy around?

 

 I'd predict it being much more likely that he'd find himself in the middle of another perfect storm of ****.

 

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4 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

And the Redskins would be the team to turn this guy around?

 

 I'd predict it being much more likely that he'd find himself in the middle of another perfect storm of ****.

 

 

Certainly would be a better situation than he had last season. We have a competent offensive mind (even if his in game play calling can drive me nuts with its conservative nature sometimes) who knows how to design plays and knows how to work with QBs, and we have a decent OL...not amazing but certainly better than the god awful line he had last year.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, TheShredder said:

Yes, of course I did.  My points were made in my post.

The experts (which are not us) point to a heavily weighted positive progression being paramount in the psychological issues that drag a young QB into oblivion when all these types of negatives compound.  My view is that Rosen absolutely needs to get out of AZ as fast as possible to save his career.  He's not getting better and it's destroying his potential.  I said he was already a bust in my book because I've seen enough.  I don't want to see the Skins send a 1st round pick for him.  That's what appears to be the asking price.  It's getting pricey for a guy on the downtrend.  From this fans perspective, I don't want to be forced to root for him. His heart doesn't seem to be in it from his self proclaimed off field distractions.  Here's an article that shows he's a Millenial to the core:

 

https://thelab.bleacherreport.com/a-beautiful-brash-mind/

This is a boy who was raised in affluence and speaks and acts for social justice of the less fortunate. A young man who doesn't need money and raises it for those who do.

A sophomore quarterback at UCLA who has been told over and over by his coach that every single thing he says and does will be analyzed and scrutinized by the NFL—the place where his football dreams can come true—and can't hold back on any controversial subject that comes up.

"His personality absolutely could be a problem for some teams," an NFC scout warns. "Some want franchise-type players, quarterbacks specifically, who don't rock the boat. Better to be seen than heard."

And yet...What do you think about concussions, Josh?

"The whole CTE thing is completely overblown," he answers.

 

There's other articles that go into his leadership ability and that specifically point to huge question marks about his ability to be the leader of a pro team.  At this point it's obvious to me that he's too much of a risk.  His stats were ultimately comparable to Sam Darnold and Josh Allen's in their 1st year.  However, neither Darnold nor Allen have question marks like Josh Rosen.  If you would ask me if I would trade a 1st rounder for either of those two guys, absolutely.  Josh Rosen, hell no bro!  If AZ actually gets out of this bad decision by picking up a 1st rounder, when they take a better QB with the #1 overall pick, then someone took the bait.

 

This all strikes me as purely speculative w/at least reference to what was a statistically awful 2018. That being said, he's has one bad season after a career of sterling reviews and what did he have to work with again?

 

32nd Ranked OL

29th Ranked Pass Catching Corps in Target Separation

26th Ranked Pass Catching Corps in Dropped Passes

2 Offensive Coordinators

Head Coach Flushed after 1 year

 

Pass Catching Corps Week 1:

Larry Fitzgerald 

Christian Kirk

Chad Williams

JJ Nelson

 

Pass Catching Corps Week 17

Larry Fitzgerald

Chad Williams

Trent Sheffield

 

TE was Ricky Seals Jones

 

RB:s

David Johnson and Chase Edmonds

 

If I'm looking at 3 years of sterling College play and a High School track record that had him as the #1 or #1B High School QB recruit his graduation year ('14 or '15 can't remember which), and a total s show that resulted in his OC being fired, and the HC being fired, which am I going to give more weight too? The worst team in the NFL in '18 actually being a total disaster around him, and him not being able to overcome it, or him being the core cause of it? I'm thinking the former. 

 

I can get why people are gun shy, early returns aren't good, but if you ask yourself, "Who could have succeeded in this situation," the answer is going to be "no-one." Which is kinda exculpatory, at least to a certain extent (considering guys like Andrew Luck, and Peyton Manning, when removed for a full season, in their prime, saw their teams totally collapse, but that wasn't as rookies/2nd year guys). 

 

The note on his mental make up/leadership skills, as in he's a bad locker room guy is just wrong. I've seen multiple reports that he was well liked by teammates at UCLA and Arizona. I have seen the neg reports and they are all based on how he got along with coaches, like his Stanford recruiting visit which he totally botched. I'm not about to argue that he's likable to most of us, or to many coaches,  he isn't or doesn't seem to be anyway, at least for most, based on media reports, but he's also been a much liked guy in the locker room and has been seen as a leader according to multiple reports and if that's true, then your take on his mental make up/leadership skills are just wrong. 

 

As for being worth the 1st. Of course he is. He's a guy with a top QB overall grade in the '18 class by a ton of tape and analytics guys. That body of work is what I care about. That and the fact that he's on a rookie deal. Franchise QB is the most difficult position to address in all of sports. If you can get it done for a mid teens draft pick, you do it, easily. even if the odds are 40/60 rather than 50/50. It's a no brainer. The best part is that if it blows up in our face, we end up landing a Tua or Trevor Lawrence, who will care? Sure as hell not me. It's been 25 years of dog doo redskins fandom for me. I just want a franchise QB and a new F.O./Owner, if I can get one of those things, suffering for another year or two is nothing, it's already been 25. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by The Consigliere
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Posted (edited)

My take on Rosen which I put here weeks back was purely his college tape which IMO is good with some nice moments but is far from always being great.

 

I saw somewhere a scout once say stats wise they look for college qbs with 63% or high completion rates, 3:1 TD-INT ratios and high YPA. None of which Rosen accomplished aside from YPA being decent. Though he came close one season.  Darnold for example had better stats in all those categories. There is a reason IMO Rosen was the 4th QB taken and went #10.   Qbs who are blatantly special go top 5 typically.

 

My point is Rosen wasn't just some killer QB in college who just underperfomed in Arizona. I recall Rosen's hype early in his college career and people then thought he would emerge as an elite college QB but that never really happened. He was good but came short of expectations. Thats at least how I recall it.

 

If trading for Rosen works out. IMO that would be the first QB trade in Dan's long tenure that does. My gut is 50-50 Rosen works out.  And I think he either will be really good or awful. I don't see much in between. I explained why in detail previously. 

 

I am far from in love with Rosen. It wouldn't shock me at all of he joins the ranks of Locker, Gabbert, etc who were drafted in the same range. But if its a 2nd Rd pick, what the heck? Because heck it could work out, too. He certainly has some nice tools.

 

The work ethic questions about Rosen would be a deal breaker for me if they are true.  One of those reports came from a dude who is a really big fan of Rosen. If it were just Casserly, I'd blow it off.

 

On another note for what it's worth, Finlay thinks they go qb rd 1 or 2. As I said on the draft thread so many conflicting takes as to what they are thinking behind the scenes.

 

It makes me think about Hoffman's take on things awhile back which is they are still in the process of making up their minds and haven't landed on a position yet.

.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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