Starting QB 2019???

[The Consigliere]

On 3/22/2019 at 3:24 PM, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Its the same every year. Kiper an Mayock hype the crap out of whoever the QBs coming out are into legitimate 1st round talents. That's their job. When was the last time you heard any of these guys say, you know. I know Team A is sitting there at 3 and really needs a QB but honestly nobody coming out is worth a first round pick.  ?? I'm thinking never.  Murray with one year playing is the no question number one pick. Grier is now a first round talent. Pretty soon we will be moving up to 3 to get him. 

You always need to have the caveat of a "fast riser" who wasn't even ranked a year earlier after a great year. The class was regarded as garbage because there were no doubt about it guys as of spring '18. What changed?

 

Murray was way better than anyone expected (and not surprisingly was flying up boards in the fall, but teams were cautious because virtually everyone believed he'd picked baseball over football), and Haskins was a 1 year starter. Both guys were the fast risers that often though not always happen and in both cases it was because of only 1 year as a starter. 

 

Personally, I a, buying on Murray and Haskins, Murray because he has special talent, Haskins because he looks like an NFL caliber starter (not, necessarily a great QB, just one that looks like he wouldn't look out of place). Other than them, I wouldn't rate any of these guys as a first rounder. Grier is probably the next guy I'd be looking at, but that would be later on day 2.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Just saw Cowherd said he has a source to the Cards who told him they have three offers on the table from teams offering their 2nd round pick for Rosen.

 

If so I take that the Giants might be among them and if so their 2nd is a higher value than ours hence they would be in the drivers seat.

 

That's fine with me. I don't mind Rosen for a 2nd rounder but that's as high as I'd go for reasons I've explained in previous posts.  If they gave up a first I'd hate it so hopefully it does not get that far. 

[JoggingGod]

I would give up a first for Rosen if we get a lower pick back too.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just saw Cowherd said he has a source to the Cards who told him they have three offers on the table from teams offering their 2nd round pick for Rosen.

 

If so I take that the Giants might be among them and if so their 2nd is a higher value than ours hence they would be in the drivers seat.

 

That's fine with me. I don't mind Rosen for a 2nd rounder but that's as high as I'd go for reasons I've explained in previous posts.  If they gave up a first I'd hate it so hopefully it does not get that far. 

This is truly shaping up to be the Smith trade all over again.  Ioannidis getting shipped is looking more likely, IMO.  

 

The good news is that Rosen is a lot cheaper and younger.  

[mistertim]

Yeah and if they're really planning on moving Rosen the Cards really have to deal him before the draft. If they wait until after then they'll lose their leverage. At least one or two of those teams with offers on the table will likely have picked a QB in the 1st. And then everyone will also know that they'll need to dump Rosen and his price will go down. His value isn't going to get any higher than it is right now. I'm fine with giving up a 2nd for him but if the Giants have their 2nd on the table we'd have to sweeten our deal a bit. Who else might be bidding at this point? Us, the Giants, maybe Miami? Our 2nd is higher than Miami's is though.

[Malapropismic Depository]

On 3/24/2019 at 9:34 AM, HigSkin said:

 

 

 

Yea, but are going after Josen Rosen, or his brother Josh Rosen, or Dr Rosen Rosen ?

 

 

 

[skinny21]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Yeah and if they're really planning on moving Rosen the Cards really have to deal him before the draft. If they wait until after then they'll lose their leverage. At least one or two of those teams with offers on the table will likely have picked a QB in the 1st. And then everyone will also know that they'll need to dump Rosen and his price will go down. His value isn't going to get any higher than it is right now. I'm fine with giving up a 2nd for him but if the Giants have their 2nd on the table we'd have to sweeten our deal a bit. Who else might be bidding at this point? Us, the Giants, maybe Miami? Our 2nd is higher than Miami's is though.

Not that I have any clue, but I wonder if the Bengals might consider him.  Or any of the teams with older qbs (like that tweet mentioning the Chargers).  Of course most of those pick after us, so...

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

This is truly shaping up to be the Smith trade all over again.  Ioannidis getting shipped is looking more likely, IMO.  

 

The good news is that Rosen is a lot cheaper and younger.  

 

I'd hate Ionnaidis as part of the deal. I see Rosen similar to Lock, high boom or bust prospect.  Though they are different type of players. If I had to pick one or the other, I'd pick Lock.

 

I've watched enough of Rosen to be convinced IMO he has to seriously improve his decision making ability if he is going to avoid being a turnover machine.  

 

The PFF articles about him haven't made me feel much better. According to their overall grades and Rosen's struggles out of a clean pocket would make him an outlier based on their metrics if he ends up a success. 

 

Also 2 different sources saying Rosen doesnt work hard  and isn't a big studier doesn't make me feel great about him either. 

 

2nd round pick I think is OK. But if it ends up their first rounder, I'd hate it. Not as much as hating them drafting Daniel Jones but I definitely won't be happy. 

 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, JoggingGod said:

I would give up a first for Rosen if we get a lower pick back too.

I'd swap #15 for their #33 and for Rosen. 

 

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just saw Cowherd said he has a source to the Cards who told him they have three offers on the table from teams offering their 2nd round pick for Rosen.

 

If so I take that the Giants might be among them and if so their 2nd is a higher value than ours hence they would be in the drivers seat.

 

That's fine with me. I don't mind Rosen for a 2nd rounder but that's as high as I'd go for reasons I've explained in previous posts.  If they gave up a first I'd hate it so hopefully it does not get that far. 

 

100%. Not least because if the Giants do trade for Rosen it almost certainly means they pass on Haskins. That means one of Haskins or Lock should be there when we pick at #15. I am dead against us trading up to get ahead of the Dolphins, and they may pass on a QB this year anyway.

 

Rosen for a 2nd would be just fine with me, or Haskins or Lock at #15 as the second option. There is no other QB (apart from Murray who I am assuming is long gone when we pick) that I would want us to spend a first round pick on this year.

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

Yeah and if they're really planning on moving Rosen the Cards really have to deal him before the draft. If they wait until after then they'll lose their leverage. At least one or two of those teams with offers on the table will likely have picked a QB in the 1st. And then everyone will also know that they'll need to dump Rosen and his price will go down. His value isn't going to get any higher than it is right now. I'm fine with giving up a 2nd for him but if the Giants have their 2nd on the table we'd have to sweeten our deal a bit. Who else might be bidding at this point? Us, the Giants, maybe Miami? Our 2nd is higher than Miami's is though.

 

I have seen New England mentioned a couple of times as a dark horse for Rosen. Just speculation though I think.

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

100%. Not least because if the Giants do trade for Rosen it almost certainly means they pass on Haskins. That means one of Haskins or Lock should be there when we pick at #15. I am dead against us trading up to get ahead of the Dolphins, and they may pass on a QB this year anyway.

 

Rosen for a 2nd would be just fine with me, or Haskins or Lock at #15 as the second option. There is no other QB (apart from Murray who I am assuming is long gone when we pick) that I would want us to spend a first round pick on this year.

 

I have seen New England mentioned a couple of times as a dark horse for Rosen. Just speculation though I think.

 

NE would be really interesting. Though a 2nd would be a somewhat hefty price to pay for a backup, unless they're pretty much positive that Brady will only be there another season or so. 

 

Do you really think Haskins could fall all the way to 15 if the Giants trade for Rosen? I suppose it also depends on what Denver and Miami do. Feels like with Fitz Miami is in a stopgap rebuild mode...maybe waiting until a more stacked 2020 class. Denver could go with Lock maybe. At least I hope...I'd definitely prefer Haskins to Lock.

[MartinC]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Do you really think Haskins could fall all the way to 15 if the Giants trade for Rosen? I suppose it also depends on what Denver and Miami do. Feels like with Fitz Miami is in a stopgap rebuild mode...maybe waiting until a more stacked 2020 class. Denver could go with Lock maybe. At least I hope...I'd definitely prefer Haskins to Lock.

 

I think Haskins goes before Lock and I think he goes before 15. I do think Lock might be there at 15. Whatever I would sit tight and let the draft come to us - if teams trade up past us to get to Haskins or Lock and Murray goes first overall that's just going to push a stud edge rusher down into our range. I would much prefer Haskins to Lock as well and want no part of Jones in the first round (and maybe not even second round - though he will probably go higher than that).

[JoggingGod]

 

[RWJ]

Cards will get a 1st rounder for Rosen.  JMO.

[Jericho]

6 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

I'd swap #15 for their #33 and for Rosen. 

 

 

So basically the equivalent of a high second round pick (depends a little on who's draft value chart you use).

 

I wouldn't do that, but if you really want Rosen it might get it done

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, RWJ said:

Cards will get a 1st rounder for Rosen.  JMO.

 

I think only the Giants would do it, and they have the draft capital with their 2 firsts so they could give up #17 and still have the 6th overall pick. I think a 1st for Rosen is too high. He has some great tools and there were plenty of reasons outside of his control for it, but the fact remains that he didn't have a very good 2018 season.

 

I hope we don't get sucked into this. Anything over a 2nd is too high I think.

[RWJ]

57 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think only the Giants would do it, and they have the draft capital with their 2 firsts so they could give up #17 and still have the 6th overall pick. I think a 1st for Rosen is too high. He has some great tools and there were plenty of reasons outside of his control for it, but the fact remains that he didn't have a very good 2018 season.

 

I hope we don't get sucked into this. Anything over a 2nd is too high I think.

I am in favor of trading our #15 for Rosen.

[Snagletooth]

Now is the time to get a QB.  Rosen is a get out of Salary Cap Jail Free card. The football gods are granting us salvation after we had condemned  ourselves with the Alex Smith trade and contract abomination. 

 

 

[Est.1974]

Mayock rated Rosen pre draft last year and they have some nice draft ammo in the lower first. Can't see Carr getting that much longer.

 

They could then screw us over on a trade as we jump into the top #5

[JoggingGod]

8 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Mayock rated Rosen pre draft last year and they have some nice draft ammo in the lower first. Can't see Carr getting that much longer.

 

They could then screw us over on a trade as we jump into the top #5

Carr was the primary reason AB chose Oakland. Not happening.

[Skin'emAlive]

AB chose Oakland because of the locale, money, and women. Not because of an oft-injured middle of the pack qb. Otherwise he would be in Buffalo.

 

Anyone that gives up a 1st for Rosen is foolish. No one should trade a 2nd either, unless they have multiple 2nds or a franchise qb already on the roster (Rivers/Brees/Roth/etc). New England should just ride the Brady train until the last stop, as I doubt Bill will stick around once Brady is done, and they can suck for a year and do a proper rebuild with a new coach. Brady is going to play another 2-3 years anyways. I am almost certain Gruden trades his 2nd for Rosen.

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

AB chose Oakland because of the locale, money, and women. Not because of an oft-injured middle of the pack qb. Otherwise he would be in Buffalo.

 

Anyone that gives up a 1st for Rosen is foolish. No one should trade a 2nd either, unless they have multiple 2nds or a franchise qb already on the roster (Rivers/Brees/Roth/etc). New England should just ride the Brady train until the last stop, as I doubt Bill will stick around once Brady is done, and they can suck for a year and do a proper rebuild with a new coach. Brady is going to play another 2-3 years anyways. I am almost certain Gruden trades his 2nd for Rosen.

 

Agree on a 1st for Rosen, but I don't see what's wrong with a 2nd. He had a rough rookie year but the deck was also completely stacked against him. The play calling was abysmal,  he had an OC who got fired during the season, and literally the worst rated OL in the league (according to PFF IIRC). There was a statistic posted earlier on this page stating that Rosen was sacked 17 times within 2.5 seconds of the snap...that's insane. 

 

I think Rosen has some really nice tools and could potentially be a great QB if he improves a couple things in his game, and can actually get a decent OC and semi-functional line. We'd be spending a mid 2nd rounder on a young QB who was a top 10 pick one year ago and who we'd have to pay peanuts for compared to other positions for at least another couple of years. If he bombs we lost a 2nd rounder and almost no cap space and would likely have a high pick in a loaded 2020 class. To me a 2nd for him is a no-brainer.

[hatchetwound]

On 3/2/2019 at 12:55 PM, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

That's why I'm in favour of getting two rookies in, assuming we don't trade for a QB. Very favourable contracts. Especially with the Smith deal hanging around.

 

If you think about it, it worked out for us in 2012, we just got hit with bad luck.

 

First we had Griffen, who looked like the man, but unfortuatly he got injured.

 

Then we had Kirk who was a servicable starter, but unfortunatly he got Allened

2 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

Carr was the primary reason AB chose Oakland. Not happening.

Well if that doesn't prove that Brown does drugs, I don't know what will.    

[desertbeagle85]

Here's the thing with Rosen. If we were together trade for him. The Skins would be almost forced to keep Gruden on for awhile longer. It wouldn't be good for Rosen to have to learn a new system 3 years in a row. 

 

Hell I think he had 2 different offensive coordinators in his 1st year. That's not good for new QBs. 

[Est.1974]

12 hours ago, Snagletooth said:

Now is the time to get a QB.  Rosen is a get out of Salary Cap Jail Free card. The football gods are granting us salvation after we had condemned  ourselves with the Alex Smith trade and contract abomination. 

 

 

 

Agree. Rosen is a good fit right now for a number of reasons.