Starting QB 2019???

[HigSkin]

 

[bakedtater1]

Josh Rosen+Antonio(milk mustache)Brown+Derrius Guice....hmmmm

[bakedtater1]

1 hour ago, skinfan2k said:

Czabe has the perfect analogy.  Rosen is a gently used 10K ford taurus used car on the lot that the cards are trying to get rid of.  Meanwhile, if we wait a bit we can afford a Lexus sportscar in the draft of 2020 and 2021

Nope.. tax returns just hit,we can put the money into the Ford!!!

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Instead of watching him try to work his way through an avalanche of horse manure falling on his head every week w/the Cardinals in '18 take a look at what got him at the top of so many draft boards in the first place, his UCLA work. You can't exactly evaluate a QB when he has zero OL, nothing functional at the playmaking positions, and incompetent coaching at OC, and the HC level (so bad the OC didn't even make it to December before getting canned).

 

What in the last couple of pages of this thread makes you think I believe us acquiring Rosen would be a bad thing? I loved him coming out (saw quite a bit of him at UCLA) and I would have him as the first or maybe second QB in this years draft. Certainly first for a QB to play in a traditional WCO.

3 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

I love Spiff.  He is my friend.

 

Get a room 🙂

[rumplestilskin]

1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said:

Josh Rosen+Antonio(Tyrone Biggums)Brown+Derrius Guice....hmmmm

Fixed it.

[bakedtater1]

Tyrone Biggums? Lol

[Darc Requiem]

4 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

Czabe has the perfect analogy.  Rosen is a gently used 10K ford taurus used car on the lot that the cards are trying to get rid of.  Meanwhile, if we wait a bit we can afford a Lexus sportscar in the draft of 2020 and 2021

I don't agree with that analogy. Not the biggest Rosen fan, but Czabe's analogy is more fitting for the soon to be cut Blake Bortles. Rosen was considered an elite prospect last year. He went to a terrible team with no talent. The book isn't written on him yet.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Josh Rosen+Antonio(milk mustache)Brown+Derrius Guice....hmmmm

 

Ignoring cap ramifications and locker room culture stuff, I can think of a LOT worse for the Redskins to trot out on the field lol...

 

Rosen + Brown + Guice + Peterson + Thompson + Reed + new LG + #15 + overdue good health...yeah, a LOT worse.

 

Won't happen lol...but fun to imagine.

[bakedtater1]

5 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Ignoring cap ramifications and locker room culture stuff, I can think of a LOT worse for the Redskins to trot out on the field lol...

 

Rosen + Brown + Guice + Peterson + Thompson + Reed + new LG + #15 + overdue good health...yeah, a LOT worse.

 

Won't happen lol...but fun to imagine.

Sorry, I just like saying Antonio (milk moustache)Brown

[redskinss]

8 hours ago, Darc Requiem said:

I don't agree with that analogy. Not the biggest Rosen fan, but Czabe's analogy is more fitting for the soon to be cut Blake Bortles. Rosen was considered an elite prospect last year. He went to a terrible team with no talent. The book isn't written on him yet.

You're right the book isn't written on him yet but one thing a lot of people overlook in these situations is that if a team that used three picks just one year ago is willing to trade him already then they probably have a read on him that we're unaware of.

Maybe the coaches think he's locker room cancer or he's not clutch or he'll never adapt and learn from his mistakes, who knows but when a player like this becomes available after only one shaky rookie season it's a big red flag.

[Skinsinparadise]

Been reading up on this as much as I can, they are talking about this now on GMF.  If the Cardinals trade Rosen it looks like its 0% about them looking to unload him and 100% about their new head coach's long-time fascination with Murray and his fit to his offense.  IMO Murray over Rosen is a no brainer too but that's about Murray being potentially a transcendent QB. 

 

Having said that, I don't want Bruce-Dan to get antsy and overpay in a bidding war especially if the Giants kick in.  I wouldn't trade a first or multiple picks for the dude.  Straight up a 2nd or 3rd I'd do it in 2 seconds.  I love the guy's tools but IMO Jay needs to rework his decision making.  To me he's like Alex Smith in reverse -- which is good and bad.  The good is IMO he's more courageous in the pocket than Alex and will hang with his reads and lets it fly.  The bad is the let it fly bit can be reckless and is turnover prone -- not just with INTs but he fumbles a lot, too.    I like him don't love him.  But don't dislike him either like some here.    As I said a few days ago if they get Rosen, they better get some good receivers -- preferably big-strong types like a Hakeem Butler who can fight for 50-50 balls.    Doctson had that rep in college, this would be his best test if its true. 

 

 

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Giants trying to muddle our capture of Rosen, Shocker. Really dislike the Giants!

[SemperFi Skins]

Wouldn't matter. Word is they (Giants) want Haskins. If they pick up Rosen, Haskins may end up on the table again. Giants also just re-signed one of their backup QBs yesterday.

[LightningBuggs]

17 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Rosen is terrible.  

 

Guys, I get it, we want a good, young QB.  But this place smells more desperate than teens getting ready for prom night.

 

Agree with all of this 100%.  

 

Rosen is simply not good at football.  I particularly love when people defend him by saying it was because he played on a bad team.  Have they looked at the Redskin roster?  It's every bit as bad as the Cardinals.

 

What is wrong with waiting a year and drafting a better young QB in '20 or '21?  I know the FO is in full moron mode already and will do something stupid but I was hoping the fans weren't onboard with that notion.  I know I'm not.

[pcbothwel]

Rosen, Haskins, Lock, or Carr will be available when the dust settles

[clskinsfan]

45 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Giants trying to muddle our capture of Rosen, Shocker. Really dislike the Giants!

 

Even if they dont have real interest in Rosen it is smart for them to claim they do. They know the Skins have real interest in him and driving up the price is smart move against a divisional rival. I am sure the Skins would do the same against any other NFCE team.

[Skinsinparadise]

47 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Wouldn't matter. Word is they (Giants) want Haskins. If they pick up Rosen, Haskins may end up on the table again. Giants also just re-signed one of their backup QBs yesterday.

I read the NY sports pages a lot because my fav baseball team is from there.  Judging by that Haskins is definitely on the table but some think Gettleman is fascinated by the pass rushing talent at that spot in the draft.  They are probably in position to take Sweat.  Some think that's their preferred thing to do. And some think its QB.   And some speculate Rosen would allow him to have his cake and eat it too -- get a young QB AND his dream pass rusher.  Normally, I'd discount scuttlebutt stuff from reporters but those guys nailed it last year about the intentions.  Gettleman is not that secretive about what he intends to do.  He doesn't give the store away but gives heavy hints.   The impression i get is they'd take Haskins if he falls but won't trade up for him because a big time pass rusher isn't just a consolation prize but something they are just about as excited about.  That's my best reading the tea leaves shot at the Giants from what I've read but who knows.  Spit balling a little on it for fun. 😀

[OVCChairman]

13 minutes ago, LightningBuggs said:

 

Agree with all of this 100%.  

 

Rosen is simply not good at football.  I particularly love when people defend him by saying it was because he played on a bad team.  Have they looked at the Redskin roster?  It's every bit as bad as the Cardinals.

 

What is wrong with waiting a year and drafting a better young QB in '20 or '21?  I know the FO is in full moron mode already and will do something stupid but I was hoping the fans weren't onboard with that notion.  I know I'm not.

 

 

There's a lot more than just being a bad QB on a bad team.  The Cardinals were worse than we were last year... hence the no. 1 overall pick.  Now i'm not saying we're a QB away from winning, but given the circumstances regarding Alex Smiths contract and the cap issue it brings, Rosen is an intriguing option.  Trading for him opens up some opportunities that may be beneficial for the team. 

 

Trading for a QB with 1st round talent, and getting him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick is a benefit to at least explore, because it allows you to keep your 1st round pick at no. 15 and pick a talent, or trade for further draft value.  I don't think anyone is looking at Rosen like he's a lock to be our long term solution at the position.... but he could be.  And he could be gotten at a much more team friendly cost to figure that out.   

 

Basically it's a 2nd / 3rd round flier on a guy with 1st round grades, on a rookie contract, while still keeping your 1st round pick, and having control of that player for 4 years... Even if next year is a bridge season to pick the guy you want in 2020, you now would have been saving money... picked a 1st round talented player at another position, have a player who is still under contract for 2020 if you want to groom a guy, and if he shows continued development and looks better than he did last year, you can go forward with him.... 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

23 minutes ago, LightningBuggs said:

 

Agree with all of this 100%.  

 

Rosen is simply not good at football.  I particularly love when people defend him by saying it was because he played on a bad team.  Have they looked at the Redskin roster?  It's every bit as bad as the Cardinals.

 

What is wrong with waiting a year and drafting a better young QB in '20 or '21?  I know the FO is in full moron mode already and will do something stupid but I was hoping the fans weren't onboard with that notion.  I know I'm not.

 

The Skins weren't/aren't "every bit as bad" as AZ. Maybe at the end of the year they were, after literally more than half of the 1st and 2nd string players were out injured.

 

And if Rosen can indeed be obtained with a 3rd round pick, I'm having one helluva hard time understanding why anyone would think getting him is a mistake. In that situation, it's not like the team would be so heavily invested in Rosen that they're tied to him for the foreseeable future and won't be able to draft another QB in 2020 or 2021.

 

I mean, think it through...if Rosen is really as bad as you claim and the Skins do have a team as bad as the Cardinals, it just means they will have a high draft pick in 2020...hell, the Cards have the #1 pick in the draft after a year with Rosen QBing a team equally as bad as ours, right? lol...and they're about to draft another QB after spending a top 10 pick on Rosen. In the above scenario the Skins will only be spending a 3rd rounder on him, so I imagine they would also be able to draft another QB next year if Rosen tanks. No reason the Cards can do this but the "every bit as bad" Redskins cannot.

 

So what's the problem?

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Even if they dont have real interest in Rosen it is smart for them to claim they do. They know the Skins have real interest in him and driving up the price is smart move against a divisional rival. I am sure the Skins would do the same against any other NFCE team.

 

Yeah and like I said Bruce is an odd duck when it comes to compensation.  When it comes to money in FA he typically is cheap.  But when it comes to giving up capital in a trade, he's not that far removed from Vinny (even though he doesn't trade as much).  He's willing to outbid.  The three first rounders and 2nd for RG3 to move up 4 spots -- don't think we will see a haul like that ever again in the NFL. Overpaid for McNabb and Alex, too IMO but especially McNabb.  Don't love the idea of Bruce in a bidding war or perceived bidding war for any Qb they are excited about. 

 

And while I disagree big time with some here who think Rosen is a bust or just a guy because of a rough rookie season.  I've watched Rosen on and off during college and refreshed myself with him last weekend -- the dude IMO is talented.   But I do see some bust potential if he can't fix his turnover gene.  So i am not giving up the store for him.  And if they make a successful trade for a QB -- this would be the first in Dan's regime IMO.   I am sticking to I'd give up the 2nd round pick for him.  Nothing higher.  But 2nd rounder I'd be happy.  Third rounder could be a steal. 

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah and like I said Bruce is an odd duck when it comes to compensation.  When it comes to money in FA he typically is cheap.  But when it comes to giving up capital in a trade, he's not that far removed from Vinny (even though he doesn't trade as much).  He's willing to outbid.  The three first rounders and 2nd for RG3 to move up 4 spots -- don't think we will see a haul like that ever again in the NFL. Overpaid for McNabb and Alex, too IMO but especially McNabb.  Don't love the idea of Bruce in a bidding war or perceived bidding war for any Qb they are excited about. 

 

And while I disagree big time with some here who think Rosen is a bust or just a guy because of a rough rookie season.  I've watched Rosen on and off during college and refreshed myself with him last weekend -- the dude IMO is talented.   But I do see some bust potential if he can't fix his turnover gene.  So i am not giving up the store for him.  And if they make a successful trade for a QB -- this would be the first in Dan's regime IMO.   

 

I didnt hate the Smith trade. The writing was on the wall with the current QB that was here and they had to try to do something. They figured they had no shot to get one of the top QB's in the draft. And they were right they all went ahead of their pick. They could have had Jackson but whatever. I felt like they made the most of a really bad situation. As far as McNabb goes. No doubt. They got fleeced.

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

The Skins weren't/aren't "every bit as bad" as AZ. Maybe at the end of the year they were, after literally more than half of the 1st and 2nd string players were out injured.

 

 

I think the Cardinals offense were worse because their O line was horrendous.   But even if I play with the premise that our offense isn't set up for Rosen to succeed.  It's not like we are stuck in time.  They plan to address (according to Doug) LG and WR.   Do they successfully fix it?  Who knows.  But they are going to at least try.

 

37 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

And if Rosen can indeed be obtained with a 3rd round pick, I'm having one helluva hard time understanding why anyone would think getting him is a mistake. In that situation, it's not like the team would be so heavily invested in Rosen that they're tied to him for the foreseeable future and won't be able to draft another QB in 2020 or 2021.

 

 

A third round pick would be an insane get IMO.  He's way more talented IMO than the 2nd-4th round prospects in this draft.  And some are killing him for his rookie year but that would actually benefit us -- it both lowers his trade value and gives him valuable experience.  We used to all expect rough rookie QB years from everyone.  But now that some tend to succeed quicker more than they have in the past -- the bar has been raised.  but still a good chunk of rookie QBs struggle especially ones who play with poor supporting casts. 

 

I actually think a 2nd round pick is a borderline steal.   And its not that i am 100% sold on Rosen.  He could bust.  But I am sold that he has the talent to be molded into a franchise QB -- those guys don't grow on trees let alone could be had easily after round 1.

 

37 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I mean, think it through...if Rosen is really as bad as you claim and the Skins do have a team as bad as the Cardinals, it just means they will have a high draft pick in 2020...hell, the Cards have the #1 pick in the draft after a year with Rosen QBing a team equally as bad as ours, right? lol...and they're about to draft another QB after spending a top 10 pick on Rosen. In the above scenario the Skins will only be spending a 3rd rounder on him, so I imagine they would also be able to draft another QB next year if Rosen tanks. No reason the Cards can do this but the "every bit as bad" Redskins cannot.

 

So what's the problem?

 

Also true IMO. 

 

 

[dballer]

Guys that are saying we can just wait and get a better QB in the next couple of years...says who? Look at what the projected top QBs were before the season compared to now. It is so hard to project in the future at that position from college. And who knows where we fall, and who is ahead of us etc...

 

Regardless, unless we give up one of our firsts, which I would be shocked to see us do, if we get Rosen and he sucks that bad, we will have a new coaching staff and still have a chance to get one of those unicorn QBs the next couple of years. Heck, if he is that bad, we may end up in a BETTER position to take one. 

 

edit: I see Califan already made all of these points 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

I didnt hate the Smith trade. The writing was on the wall with the current QB that was here and they had to try to do something. They figured they had no shot to get one of the top QB's in the draft. And they were right they all went ahead of their pick. They could have had Jackson but whatever. I felt like they made the most of a really bad situation. As far as McNabb goes. No doubt. They got fleeced.

 

I don't want to re-litigate that one.  But I'll just say i've been consistent on it. I outlined what I wanted in January in 2018 before they made any move.  I listed ironically a trade for Alex or ANY veteran as my least desired move.   They weren't IMO poised for a win now move.  I thought it was short sighted.   I wanted a young QB ironically in the 2018 draft -- Rosen wasn't my guy in that draft, Darnold was but I was willing to roll the dice to trade up and go with someone young.  I am tired of the lets trade for a good but nothing special 34 year old and hope they have something left.  Alex was the third go of it.  For me -- enough.    

 

Part of the reason why I wouldn't hate a trade for Rosen (depending on the trade capital) is at least you'd have a young QB with some potential to mold and grow.  It would feel more like a rebuild type of move in a good way versus the constant bandaids this team seems to prefer especially at QB and keeps this team IMO running on the same hamster wheel.  Trading for Flacco would be same old for me.  Trading for Rosen will feel different.  And if they can do it without giving up a first rounder like Califan said it doesn't preclude them from taking a Qb high in the next draft if it doesn't work out.

 

I am a believer in the Philly model that finally got them Wentz -- keep throwing stuff at the wall until you land your guy.  And if they play that game, I'd rather it be with young dudes. 

[dballer]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I actually think a 2nd round pick is a borderline steal.   And its not that i am 100% sold on Rosen.  He could bust.  But I am sold that he has the talent to be molded into a franchise QB -- those guys don't grow on trees let alone could be had easily after round 1.

 

I agree that a 2nd round pick is a borderline steal, i also think it would be hard for the Cards to ask for a 1st. He was the 10th pick last year, had a seemingly poor year, has one less year of his Rookie deal now...his stock has certainly dropped from 10th overall. Maybe a 2nd and something else...