Renegade7

Starting QB 2019???

Who should be the starting QB in 2019???  

384 members have voted

  1. 1. Who should be the starting QB in 2019???

    • Alex Smith
      28
    • Colt McCoy
      66
    • Trade for a Veteran
      7
    • Sign a Veteran
      29
    • First Round Pick (2019 draft class)
      59
    • Non-First Round Pick (2019 draft class)
      35
    • Too Early to Answer
      60
    • I don't know yet
      20
    • We're screwed (at least at QB for 2019)
      80


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6 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

Bottom-line:  The results of Allen's "all-in" on Smith was reminiscent of the Haynesworth fiasco --except this time the Skins won't be able wriggle their way out of the cap implications.  So we're now down to "In McCoy and Sanchez we trust"?  

Add that to the long list of already bungled and fumbled QB moves since he showed up here.  All the money and draft picks paid out to the position alone and it’s McCoy or Sanchez.  I laugh and then I cry.  

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Pretty depressing read

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/articles/alex-smiths-injury-may-sink-redskins-years

 

Alex Smith's injury may sink 'Skins for years

CoverImage_775x425_Ben.jpg?itok=UQ-cIFoW
BEN KRIMMEL
NOVEMBER 20, 2018 - 1:48 PM
 
The gruesome injury suffered by Alex Smith may doom the Washington Redskins franchise for the next several seasons. 
 

This isn't to disparage Smith's play, as losing a quarterback of his skill set may not be seen as a disaster, but losing him to a devastating injury will significantly harm the franchise in the short-term because of the amount of money the team agreed to pay him this offseason. 

After acquiring Smith in exchange for defensive back Kendall Fuller and a 3rd round pick (78th overall in 2018), the Redskins signed the 34-year-old quarterback to a four-year, $94 million deal. But the real issue for Washington is the amount of money they guaranteed in the deal: $71 million.

The size of the contract's guaranteed money tied the fate of the Redskins to Smith through the end of the 2020 season as Washington will pay Smith $15 million in 2019 and $16 million in 2020, even if he doesn't play a down during the next season, which is a possibility due to the severity of the injury.

 
 

 

"This is a franchise crippling injury," Kevin Clark said on Sunday's The Ringer NFL Show.

The Redskins, who added Smith to bring stability to the quarterback position after years of contract drama with Kirk Cousins, will instead get total uncertainty at the position going forward.

"The opposite of stability is going to happen in Washington right now," Clark said "They're going to have a quarterback, who if that injury is as severe as we think, his status for next season is up in the air, then what do you do? Do you roll with Colt McCoy next summer? Do you draft a guy? Do you sign a guy, a patchwork guy? I don't even know where you begin."

The woes for Redskins fans over Smith's contract are compounded when factoring Washington's lack of cap space for the next few years. This leaves the 'Skins in a significantly weakened position to compete.

The Redskins have the sixth least amount of cap space for the 2019 season and the eighth least for the 2020 season, per Spotrac. They will have very limited maneuverability when it comes to adding offensive playmakers and a quarterback to replace Smith while he recovers.

"It's just a really bad situation," Ringer co-host Robert Mays said. "(The Redskins) were running in place with Alex Smith. Now, not having him for the rest of this year – and then maybe not at full strength next year – they're not even running in place. They're moving backwards with no plan to ever move forward in terms of the resources."

Even before Smith's injury, this contract seemed shortsighted by the Redskins. Now, it looks like another of owner Daniel Snyder's poisoned chalice deals.

Follow Ben Krimmel and 106.7 The Fan on Twitter.

 
 
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Honestly, what I would do? 

 

Fire Gruden and Allen, cut Smith

and Norman, and take the entire cap hit in 2019. I’d also look to trade Trent, Reed and CT.  

 

Draft as well as possible, but sign virtually no FAs, with the expectation that 2019 is a lose for picks type year.

 

Then draft a QB in 2020 and start building.

 

This team is stuck in Grudallen middle-of-the-pack suckdom, and in order to build a true champioship calibre roster, you need to jettison some pieces.

 

Build around Allen, Payne and the DL and young defensive players.  

 

For a competent FO, you have one year of suck, clear all the dead cap stuff, stock up on picks, get real talent and look to 2020 and beyond.

 

This is what the Browns did.  

 

Going from perennial 8-8 to 11-5 is harder that 5-11.

 

Gotta trim off all the mediocre Gruden try hard guys and get guys with more talent and upside.

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@Skinsinparadise the article is only right  if the FO is stupid.  They have to consider the smith contract sunk cost and just move on.  It will be a huge salary cap hit, but he wasn’t playing well, and there will likely be a new FO and coaching staff, so do whatever you can to jettison the contract, take as much of the hit in one year and be done with it.

 

Its true if they try and coax along Smith’s contract the next 2-3 years, they’re doomed.  

 

They have to be smarter.  Allen won’t be.  Which is why Allen needs to be gone.  

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@Voice_of_Reason Browns are only relevant because they got a QB finally.  They are a better example of how multiple high first round picks can change nothing but right one can change everything. 

Edited by Renegade7

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17 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Honestly, what I would do? 

 

Fire Gruden and Allen, cut Smith

and Norman, and take the entire cap hit in 2019. I’d also look to trade Trent, Reed and CT.  

 

Draft as well as possible, but sign virtually no FAs, with the expectation that 2019 is a lose for picks type year.

 

Then draft a QB in 2020 and start building.

 

This team is stuck in Grudallen middle-of-the-pack suckdom, and in order to build a true champioship calibre roster, you need to jettison some pieces.

 

Build around Allen, Payne and the DL and young defensive players.  

 

For a competent FO, you have one year of suck, clear all the dead cap stuff, stock up on picks, get real talent and look to 2020 and beyond.

 

This is what the Browns did.  

 

Going from perennial 8-8 to 11-5 is harder that 5-11.

 

Gotta trim off all the mediocre Gruden try hard guys and get guys with more talent and upside.

I’m for it...Trevor Lawrence 2020!  😕

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We have plenty of manoeuvrability in our cap space situation. No doubt the Alex Smith injury is a pain in the arse looking forward. I dare say it probably just brings forward a difficult decision we would have been looking to make anyway. 

 

But we we were never going to attack the FA market. Looks to me like we just have to decide if we bring forward our time to draft a QB.

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12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@Voice_of_Reason Browns are only relevant because they got a QB finally.  They are a better example of how multiple high first round picks can change nothing but right one can change everything. 

Well, they sucked, got the #1 overall selection, then got a QB.

 

They also do have quite a bit of talent in the team, and hoarded cap and draft picks in order to make a run at a lot of talent.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

They have to be smarter.  Allen won’t be.  Which is why Allen needs to be gone.  

 

Allen stinks, no argument from me.  But if beat guys are correct, Dan looms large on this too -- Bruce and perhaps Jay too were on the spot and Dan had no patience for a rebuild.  If I recall it was Finlay who said people from the FO behind the scenes were gloating about the roster the team had, selling that to Dan -- scoffing at the idea that at best they can make a wildcard and felt this was a division winning roster. As Finlay liked to say they approached this last off season arrogantly but now got to back that up.  Granted they still have a chance to do it.

 

But if they don't?   Since when has Dan had the patience for a crash and burn season?

 

The QB situation is ironic.  They got this cooking IMO.  And this from a PR perspective which is always relevant with this organization. 

 

A.  Alex Smith for all intents and purposes is a bust with the fan base at this given time after having a really good start in the off season.  They had some early off season excitement about him with Jay and others pumping him up as an upgrade and some NFL pundits agreeing.  On twitter, in particular Alex was revered by many Redskins fans.  That's all out the window now -- he has a few straggler people as far as I can tell excited about Alex returning.  But otherwise, its a bust with fans -- that's easy to see.  Now is it a bust in reality -- don't know -- but different conversation.  But is Dan going to sell to the fan base am sure you all can't wait to see the return of Alex Smith when he's ready?  So this isn't like RG3 in 2013.  

 

B.  Colt Mccoy better be the answer.  Now I agree with you if Dan has patience and can deal with another year of fans not showing up to Fed Ex and just shrugs it off -- then no big deal.  But from what beat guys say about Dan -- he can't emotionally deal with fan apathy and empty stands.  Cerrato has said the same. 

 

C.  How ironic is it that Bruce extended Alex guaranteed money to beyond what he was willing to do for his predecessor -- and that of all things ends up burning him  -- let alone they might have to end up paying Alex and Colt a combined give or take 28 million a year starting next year with no QB of the future on the roster unless they draft one.  The irony -- why do bad things happen to good people?  I am surprised that we are getting all this bad karma on the QB situation.  😮

 

But to your point, yeah I agree, I wanted to go young at QB THIS draft -- not trade resources for a 34 year old QB who I didn't think could take this team to the promised land.  But I'll grant that even I didn't think it would end up this bad.  I think people might underestimate the PR nightmare Dan has to deal with as to the QB situation moving forward among other things.  If Colt doesn't perform -- what do you sell then?  I know you fans can't wait to see what Alex looks like coming off of a serious leg injury because the best is yet to come with the dude when he's 35?  

 

If I had to guess what they do if Colt doesn't play well -- they take a flier with one of the younger QBs in the draft and try to sell that.  As for which QB, I don't know. Haskins, Grier, Jones or whomever.  I think Herbert doesn't come out.

 

The thing is people sell the 2020 draft for QB but not sure how deep it is, its certainly top heavy.  But to your point to get the top guys like Tua you are going to need a top pick. 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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40 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Well, they sucked, got the #1 overall selection, then got a QB.

 

They also do have quite a bit of talent in the team, and hoarded cap and draft picks in order to make a run at a lot of talent.

 

That's not the first time they drafted a QB or high.  They also had a draft where they picked like 5 WRs or something like that.  I get your premise, but Browns are very much a "broken clock is right twice a day" franchise.  No doubt in my mind they were serious about Condi as head coach, I don't want to emulate their plan, lol

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1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Fire Gruden and Allen, cut Smith

and Norman, and take the entire cap hit in 2019. I’d also look to trade Trent, Reed and CT.  

I think I agree, we can possibly unload some players and stock up on draft picks, I don't mind watching this team take a step back to take 2 steps forward.

 

I think all of these players should be on notice next year, I wouldn't miss any of them based on their cost.  I think we'll have about $18M in cap space heading into the offseason before we make any moves.

 

Alex Smith - $42M dead cap if cut

Josh Norman - Use post-June 1 designation and save $11.5M in cap space or don't use the June 1 designation and save $8.5M by cutting him, or trade him

Jordan Reed - Use post-June 1 designation and save $8M in cap space or trade him

Morgan Moses - May use a post-June on him instead of Norman or Reed, if so it could save us $5M in cap space and if not it saves us $2M in cap, maybe a trade is an option as well

Vernon Davis - saves us $5M in cap

Mason Foster - Saves $2M

Ryan Kerrigan - Will save $10M in cap space

CT - Has more injuries than Evil Knievel, saves us $3M in cap.

 

I think we try to rework something with Trent but it may be time for him to move on or if he wants to be a lifetime Skin then do a more friendly deal. I feel bad for him, he deserves a chance to win, maybe we trade him to a contender where he plays out his last couple of years.

 

We also have to sign Scherff but he may not want to stay here, would you?

 

So if we get rid of all these players minus Trent and Scherff we clear up $53M in cap space and what did we really lose, are they winning games for us?

 

Some of them make plays here and there but nobody on that list is consistent and many are downright robbing the team of cap space.

 

We could create about $71M in cap space which would let us absorb all the bad debt incurred by cutting Alex, then we have a fresh start.

 

Edited by JSSkinz

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A true rebuild sounds nice and all but even if Dan cuts ties with Bruce and/or Jay he’s going to want to give jobs to folks who believe we can win with a lot of what we already have.  Dan doesn’t do rebuilds, particularly not in the midst of the worst fan apathy he’s ever experienced.  

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14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

A true rebuild sounds nice and all but even if Dan cuts ties with Bruce and/or Jay he’s going to want to give jobs to folks who believe we can win with a lot of what we already have.  Dan doesn’t do rebuilds, particularly not in the midst of the worst fan apathy he’s ever experienced.  

To me that's the operative point. If the team doesnt make the playoffs and the end of the season is marked by fan apathy at the stadium, then what next?

 

I think the last thing Dan will want to do is sell a rebuild because it's tough to sell even in the best circumstances.  I think he will feel boxed in to do something sexy.

 

The Alex injury is the perfect storm. You got the cap issue. But from a marketing standpoint, you got a qb that the majority of the fan base is clearly right now feeling meh about. So selling that same dude in a comeback season at 35 or 36 well good luck with that.

 

So if Colt doesnt perform, Dan might have the biggest pickle PR wise ever with this team. A team without a QB is typically seen as a team without a future unless you have a dominating defense. And you got to sell that to a fan base suffering from burn out and skepticism when it comes to Dan's gimmicky PR moves.

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That's not the first time they drafted a QB or high.  They also had a draft where they picked like 5 WRs or something like that.  I get your premise, but Browns are very much a "broken clock is right twice a day" franchise.  No doubt in my mind they were serious about Condi as head coach, I don't want to emulate their plan, lol

The plan is sound.  The people expecting it might still be morons.

 

We need to execute the plan better.  Which means no Bruce.

17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

A true rebuild sounds nice and all but even if Dan cuts ties with Bruce and/or Jay he’s going to want to give jobs to folks who believe we can win with a lot of what we already have.  Dan doesn’t do rebuilds, particularly not in the midst of the worst fan apathy he’s ever experienced.  

I mean, you’re right.  Or at least you have been right.  

 

However we can hope that he’s matured as an owner, he’s learned from watching other teams in the division fly by his, and is open to doing things he’s not comfortable with.

 

Unlikely, but that’s the hope.

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2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Honestly, what I would do? 

 

Fire Gruden and Allen, cut Smith

and Norman, and take the entire cap hit in 2019. I’d also look to trade Trent, Reed and CT.  

 

Draft as well as possible, but sign virtually no FAs, with the expectation that 2019 is a lose for picks type year.

 

Then draft a QB in 2020 and start building.

 

This team is stuck in Grudallen middle-of-the-pack suckdom, and in order to build a true champioship calibre roster, you need to jettison some pieces.

 

Build around Allen, Payne and the DL and young defensive players.  

 

For a competent FO, you have one year of suck, clear all the dead cap stuff, stock up on picks, get real talent and look to 2020 and beyond.

 

This is what the Browns did.  

 

Going from perennial 8-8 to 11-5 is harder that 5-11.

 

Gotta trim off all the mediocre Gruden try hard guys and get guys with more talent and upside.

This is absolutely the right path to take for the long term sucess of the team. Reed and Thompson are dangerous weapons but injured too often. 

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Pretty depressing read

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/articles/alex-smiths-injury-may-sink-redskins-years

 

Alex Smith's injury may sink 'Skins for years

That is a depressing read the way they present their takes, but I feel that is an exaggerated shock jock take that is so common in today's sports media.  As with many of these stories, the reality isn't as extreme as they make it out to be.

 

I posted in the other thread about how I think AS isn't going to cripple them if they hang onto him one more year, then make him a June 1st cut in 2020.  Not ideal situation at all, especially considering we flushed a 3rd rounder and Fuller down the toilet, but the team will either not be able to add/retain for one offseason if they cut him next year, or will be prevented from making splash moves for two offseasons if they make him a June 1st cut in 2020.  We will still be able to retain our current players while adding what I estimate to be 18 draft picks in next two drafts, while having some room to add role players under my preferred approach.  Cap hell is like a monster under the bed, feared yet not real in this day of accelerating salary caps.  So they may be limited in their additions for a couple years, I think the headline using "sink" is a little over the top.

 

I was really hoping I wouldn't have to look to the future roster building / mock drafts until at least after Xmas this year haha     

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7 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

 

I posted in the other thread about how I think AS isn't going to cripple them if they hang onto him one more year, then make him a June 1st cut in 2020. 

 

What's the cap hit in 2020 if he's a June 1st cut?

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22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

What's the cap hit in 2020 if he's a June 1st cut?

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/alex-smith-3337/

 

So If i am interpreting this correctly, since we are hanging on to him for 2019 in my scenario, his 2020 salary will become fully guaranteed.   So when we cut him early in the 2020 offseason but designate him a June 1st cut, we would be looking at his 2020 cap hit (21.4) plus accelerated prorated guaranteed money from future years ($5.4 mil for both '21 and '22) for a total cap hit of $32.2 mil, but we can spread that out to $16.1 mil over both 2020 and 2021 due to him being designated June 1st cut, correct?  Anybody who is better than me with this contract stuff please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

a 16.1 mil hit for each of 2 season sucks, but projected cap for 2020 is about $200 mil, and 2021 is about $210 mil.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

We still would have enough room to retain our key players and extend the priority free agents.  We just won't be very active in free agency, but as this past offseason taught us, when you net 4 comp picks, that can be a great thing for the future of this team.

 

While I don't think the Redskins will be forced to cut players they would otherwise like to retain, and I think high priced free agents are generally overrated (look how our one this past offseason did in PRich), I do think the most painful thing in shedding AS's contract will be the fact that we will not be able to take advantage of players on cheap, first contracts.  Even if we draft a QB of the future in round 1 this year and he pans out, not only will he be close to an extension by the time AS contract is shed, but by then Allen, Payne, Matt I, etc will all be looking at big pay days (or will already have been extended), and the advantage of all this young talent we have on cheap contracts will have been dried up by AS.  But I still think we can remain competitive as long as we continue to have productive drafts.

 

*** Now that i think of it, I don't think the 32.2 would be split evenly over the two seasons.  I think it may be 21.4 hit in 2020 and 10.8 in 2021.  Which i would prefer so we can rough it out for one year, then free up some more dough when some of those extensions come due.  

 

 

Edited by KillBill26
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It's kind of funny hearing how Alex being a 20+M dollar handicap on the teams salary cap isn't a hindrance at all after all the "we can't possibly afford to pay" the 23-24M a year it would have taken to re-sign the last guy instead of franchising him a 2nd time. And he still hasn't missed a start. Alex will likely be missing major time for the 3rd or 4th time in his career.

 

This apparently is a little known fact but the guy wasn't ever that good and its not like teams fell apart upon his injury. Another reminder of McNabb.

 

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8 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/alex-smith-3337/

 

So If i am interpreting this correctly, since we are hanging on to him for 2019 in my scenario, his 2020 salary will become fully guaranteed.   So when we cut him early in the 2020 offseason but designate him a June 1st cut, we would be looking at his 2020 cap hit (21.4) plus accelerated prorated guaranteed money from future years ($5.4 mil for both '21 and '22) for a total cap hit of $32.2 mil, but we can spread that out to $16.1 mil over both 2020 and 2021 due to him being designated June 1st cut, correct?  Anybody who is better than me with this contract stuff please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

If he doesn't play, then its 20 million and change in 2019.  Then 16 million a year for 2 more years so it would be sort of like having a marquee player (salary wise) in addition to whatever you are paying whoever is the starting Qb on the books, except that dude wouldn't be contributing to the team.  Not the end of the world, I agree, but still pretty bad.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Don't forget that 2020 could be an uncapped year, we should know how that new CBA will shake out over the next 12 months, it could be our savior.

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13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If he doesn't play, then its 20 million and change in 2019.  Then 16 million a year for 2 more years so it would be sort of like having a marquee player (salary wise) in addition to whatever you are paying whoever is the starting Qb on the books, except that dude wouldn't be contributing to the team.  Not the end of the world, I agree, but still pretty bad.

Agreed.  It sucks, but its not going to "sink" us.  It all comes down to productive drafts, which includes hitting on the next QB draft selection.  But as all redskins fans know, easier said than done.  

 

But because we all know how hard it is to find a top tier QB, I can understand taking the chance at the time on what many believed to be an above average QB (knowing whats his name was good as gone).  It's why I also can understand why trading 3 1st rounders (a very, very steep price I know) for what many believed to be a franchise QB felt like the right move at the time.  The aggressiveness of the moves doesn't bother me, because if either QB had panned out, the first round picks / all the guaranteed money would've been worth it.  But when you make those kind of moves, you better nail it.  And the skins whiffed big time on both occasions (three occasions if we include McNabb) because the player they targeted was terrible for us.  It's not the aggressive approach I have a problem with, it's that both times we paid a steep price and have almost nothing to show for it.       

8 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Don't forget that 2020 could be an uncapped year, we should know how that new CBA will shake out over the next 12 months, it could be our savior.

But then if we cut Alex Smith that year John Mara goes running crying to Goodell and we face a newly created penalty.  

Edited by KillBill26

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2 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

But then if we cut Alex Smith that year John Mara goes running crying to Goodell and we face a newly created penalty.  

Different scenario, we restructured bad contracts and front loaded them to take advantage of the situation, in this current scenario we're just cutting a player in his 3rd season and if the rules are the same as in 2010 we won't absorb any cap penalties.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Honestly, what I would do? 

 

Fire Gruden and Allen, cut Smith

and Norman, and take the entire cap hit in 2019. I’d also look to trade Trent, Reed and CT.  

 

Draft as well as possible, but sign virtually no FAs, with the expectation that 2019 is a lose for picks type year.

 

Then draft a QB in 2020 and start building.

 

This team is stuck in Grudallen middle-of-the-pack suckdom, and in order to build a true champioship calibre roster, you need to jettison some pieces.

 

Build around Allen, Payne and the DL and young defensive players.  

 

For a competent FO, you have one year of suck, clear all the dead cap stuff, stock up on picks, get real talent and look to 2020 and beyond.

 

This is what the Browns did.  

 

Going from perennial 8-8 to 11-5 is harder that 5-11.

 

Gotta trim off all the mediocre Gruden try hard guys and get guys with more talent and upside.

 

This is the bitter pill. But long term, it's likely the smart play.

13 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Different scenario, we restructured bad contracts and front loaded them to take advantage of the situation, in this current scenario we're just cutting a player in his 3rd season and if the rules are the same as in 2010 we won't absorb any cap penalties.

 

 

 

Yeah, but it's Mara. Anything goes.

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