NBCSports.com: Don't look now but Redskins drafts are starting to produce among the NFL's best by JP Finlay

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

52 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

All of these are great examples, I actually happen to agree with many of them and have touched on some when trying to explain that I don’t looooove Bruce Allen, just don’t hate the guy and he’s brought some good.

You’re a bit more passionate than that, my friend.  You haven’t endlessly sparred with Bruce’s long list of critics because he’s “brought some good.” to the table.

 

You’d be hard pressed to find anyone that literally thinks every single thing Bruce has ever done is terrible.  I’d venture a guess that if you were only arguing that he’s done “some good” along with a sea of bad, there wouldn’t be an argument.

 

 

 

 

[Morneblade]

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You’re a bit more passionate than that, my friend.  You haven’t endlessly sparred with Bruce’s long list of critics because he’s “brought some good.” to the table.

 

You’d be hard pressed to find anyone that literally thinks every single thing Bruce has ever done is terrible.  I’d venture a guess that if you were only arguing that he’s done “some good” along with a sea of bad, there wouldn’t be an argument.

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone knows that HCZ loves himself. Maybe a little too much at times....

[HardcoreZorn]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You’re a bit more passionate than that, my friend.  You haven’t endlessly sparred with Bruce’s long list of critics because he’s “brought some good.” to the table.

 

You’d be hard pressed to find anyone that literally thinks every single thing Bruce has ever done is terrible.  I’d venture a guess that if you were only arguing that he’s done “some good” along with a sea of bad, there wouldn’t be an argument.

 

 

 

 

This is how I know you don’t read the entirety of my posts, or have selective memory of what I say. Everything I just said are things I’ve said before, multiple times. These were usually accused as hide behind statements or disingenuous because some didn’t like what I was saying. 

 

Some operative points in my time here:

 

-It wasn’t all Bruce being a douche that resulted in the relationship coming to an end, many factors involved.

 

-did not think Kirk was worth the money

 

-a lot of dysfunction seems to be overblown in the media, based off the results I’m seeing

 

-I like where this team is headed. I believe in this roster more than many in my lifetime and have said so since I joined. So why such vitriol? Why is Bruce the guy everyone hates so much?

 

-This isn’t 101 basic stuff we are finally doing. It’s damn impressive. It’s how we have a roster that’s able to compensate for a qb, most important position in football, that’s doing nothing to contribute to wins as you guys would like to say.

 

Theres more, but that’s the gist of everything I’ve gotten at since I started posting here. It’s just you were so far on the love Kirk anti Bruce extreme that you resorted to attacking me as some Bruce fanboy since I presented different takes than yours. And didn’t join in on the he’s a dark cloud bandwagon.

 

Nothing I said to goskins contradicts or interferes with any of those points above. Like I said, I’ve talked about them before, you must gloss over them. Or confuse asking why the hate as you should love. IDK. 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@HardcoreZorn My point was that you think a lot more highly of Bruce other than just him doing "some good".  Basically proved my point with your post.  It's clear by the long list of stuff you just typed including that there is more where that came from that you think Bruce has done much more than bring "some good" to the organization. 

 

The other thing you did is what your infamous for, however I'm not sure if the previous QB discussion that has been outlawed from the Alex thread, has also been outlawed elsewhere in the Stadium.  If so, it's an infraction that I'm sure won't be your last.  You love talking about that subject more than the folks that you swear are in love with it.  

[JSSkinz]

7 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I was meaning the draft.   We can now take a couple chances on guys who have potential higher upside 

There's no studs in the draft either, the highest rated WR's are low 1st round grades.

 

 

[OVCChairman]

5 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

There's no studs in the draft either, the highest rated WR's are low 1st round grades.

 

 

 

I didnt say studs... I said take some chances...

 

If a guy like Marquise Brown is there you can reach a little bit because they have a chance to be a difference maker... If there's a LG that grades low 2nd and you take him at 18th in the 2nd instead of 25 because you feel he's got the goods to come in and be starter..  Multiple people have suggested taking a T early in this draft.  We can do that because we've set up our foundation to be able to use high picks on someone who doesn't NEED to come in and start day 1.  The last few years, our first handful of picks have needed to be almost a day 1 starter because we were so incomplete regarding our starting 22

[Koolblue13]

Just now, OVCChairman said:

 

I didnt say studs... I said take some chances...

 

If a guy like Marquise Brown is there you can reach a little bit because they have a chance to be a difference maker... If there's a LG that grades low 2nd and you take him at 18th in the 2nd instead of 25 because you feel he's got the goods to come in and be starter..  Multiple people have suggested taking a T early in this draft.  We can do that because we've set up our foundation to be able to use high picks on someone who doesn't NEED to come in and start day 1.  The last few years, our first handful of picks have needed to be almost a day 1 starter because we were so incomplete regarding our starting 22

Us not doing that is why we're getting better.

[OVCChairman]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Us not doing that is why we're getting better.

 

 

with GOOD players, yes, and we've made strides.   Now we have the luxury to be able to do it a bit without sacrificing the team's ability to function... that's how you get those GREAT players in the draft... like a Tyreek Hill, or Antonio Brown

[Koolblue13]

Just now, OVCChairman said:

 

 

with GOOD players, yes, and we've made strides.   Now we have the luxury to be able to do it a bit without sacrificing the team's ability to function... that's how you get those GREAT players in the draft... like a Tyreek Hill, or Antonio Brown

No it isn't. I dont mind moving around for the player you want or back for the lesser player if it adds picks.

[HardcoreZorn]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@HardcoreZorn My point was that you think a lot more highly of Bruce other than just him doing "some good".  Basically proved my point with your post.  It's clear by the long list of stuff you just typed including that there is more where that came from that you think Bruce has done much more than bring "some good" to the organization. 

 

The other thing you did is what your infamous for, however I'm not sure if the previous QB discussion that has been outlawed from the Alex thread, has also been outlawed elsewhere in the Stadium.  If so, it's an infraction that I'm sure won't be your last.  You love talking about that subject more than the folks that you swear are in love with it.  

Ok he’s done some really good things and some things I disagree with? Or whoever is operating the FO is doing a good job on the whole, whether it’s bruce or Bruce delegating or Bruce was stripped of responsibilities?  Suit your satisfaction better? Why is it so hard to wrap your mind around this concept that you can like what’s going on, while realizing there’s room for improvement? 

 

See you like to pretend that you don’t say or think that everything the FO does is wrong, yet spend 100% of the time saying... what the FO does wrong or what isn’t going right. I speak about things I like (which set you off) and things I dislike (which doesn’t fit your narrative of me and causes you to ignore or downplay that I say them). I obviously speak with way more frequency on the things I like, because the entire board centers for the most part about what’s wrong with the team. If there was a thread about how perfect we are in FA, I’d be in there saying “woah woah, there’s this and this that I don’t agree with.” And then maybe the person who started the thread would call me a hater, I dunno. But we all know that’s not the case on here, negativity is rampant, and fans like you dilineate a negative slant in each and every post. I tend to be more positive in my takes recently but I wasn’t always this way. 

 

If a moderator has a problem with what I said, then they can tell me. So save that. I was just outlining some of my key points I’ve had on here that I am passionate about, but in no way absolve the FO of everything or mean It’s the GOAT FO to ever grace this earth. Which is what you implied in your post. It’s really tiresome to engage in football discussions and then be called out for being passionate about certain things everyone knows you don’t agree with and put false spins on what I actually say. So let it be, agree to disagree and move on.

[ixcuincle]

But I was told Bruce Allen had "ruined" the team and should be fired. Never mind that the last 2 drafts were some of the best in recent memory. 

[TheGreek1973]

On 11/15/2018 at 2:55 PM, Warhead36 said:

We have done a much better job of drafting recently, but we aren't really drafting studs. We've done well getting good players, and roster depth guys in the mid to late rounds, but who was our last real home run pick? Like an Antonio Brown in round 6 or Tyreke Hill in round 5? Closest is probably Jordan Reed who was a 3rd rounder in 2013 but he's hurt too much.

Two future all pro players for me would be Ioannidis and Roullier.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I've done plenty of essays on the subject.  i'll give my cliff notes version of this and have zero interest debating the usual suspects on it.   To me there are 4 key legs to the team as for personnel and fan sentiment.

 

A.  College scouting.  I like this department.  They have had hiccups but every GM/draft has them.  The key is to have many shots at the well -- for example I almost never see it mentioned by anyone but me that we have to grade the 2016 draft also by factoring them trading down and adding 3 picks to the 2017 draft in the process -- that's very Belichick style.  I'd give this department an A-.  Maybe even an A. 

 

B. Pro scouting.  Some hits.  Too many FA misses. Like anything, I've liked some of their moves.   And I don't like their general approach to FA.  I'd give it  a D +

 

C. QB.  And yes IMO it deserves its own category because its that important.  And I am not just talking about our last QB.  I mean everything under Bruce-Dan.  All the resources dedicated to it, squandered opportunities, etc.  I'd give them an F.  If there was a lower grade than an F, they'd get that.  I don't think F sums it up enough.

 

D.  Presenting the team.  They haven't exuded class and likability or competence.   I think Brian Lafemina is a rock star level good at presenting the team well so maybe they are poised to change this with his hire among others.  I'd give them a C factoring everything.  If Its just purely about Bruce I'd give them an F. 

 

I think they fix their issues in all likelihood if they put Kyle Smith in charge of the whole operation -- put a real football guy in charge.  And put Lafemina in the role that Bruce has now.  Have Bruce focus on the stadium.  Then you are cooking with oil IMO.  ?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@HardcoreZorn You know it rings hollow when you constantly cry foul that your being misinterpreted, unfairly labeled, etc., right? You are the same guy that constantly labels those that oppose you.  Your go-to is that prior QB "lovers" hate Bruce so much that we can't see the greatness going on in front of us. You also throw barbs disguised as advice about how folks should digest the Redskins.  On the reg.

 

When the FO does things I like, I say it - liked this past years draft, posted about it. Loved picking up AP, posted about it. Liked the HHCD trade, posted about it.  Like the hiring of LaFemina, posted about it.  Those are just things I can think of off the top of my head.  I don't hate everyone in the FO, in fact that's why I'd prefer they not have to answer to Bruce Allen. 

 

[HardcoreZorn]

11 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@HardcoreZorn You know it rings hollow when you constantly cry foul that your being misinterpreted, unfairly labeled, etc., right? You are the same guy that constantly labels those that oppose you.  Your go-to is that prior QB "lovers" hate Bruce so much that we can't see the greatness going on in front of us. You also throw barbs disguised as advice about how folks should digest the Redskins.  On the reg.

 

When the FO does things I like, I say it - liked this past years draft, posted about it. Loved picking up AP, posted about it. Liked the HHCD trade, posted about it.  Like the hiring of LaFemina, posted about it.  Those are just things I can think of off the top of my head.  I don't hate everyone in the FO, in fact that's why I'd prefer they not have to answer to Bruce Allen. 

 

Lol yes, I do know it rings hollow, considering how many times you answer the same way. Over and over and over.

 

Whats funny is to see you and your crowd squirm because now all of the sudden the team wins in spite of the QB. Whereas before the previous QB was the only thing right with this franchise, that must put a dent in that line of thinking. 

 

And 4 total posts acknowledging positives isn’t enough to make anyone think you are some fair analyst on here. You’ve said yourself why you are the way you are, so own it. Don’t act like you see both ways, you don’t. 

 

Keep hating bruce my man, I know how good it must feel for you. I’ll keep on loving him, I’m much happier now that I’ve admitted to it!!

 

[Ashburn Dave]

Is the front office better at drafting or did good players happen to drop into our laps?  I was all in on Vita Vea but Payne is showing to be the better player.  

 

 

[Warhead36]

5 hours ago, Ashburn Dave said:

Is the front office better at drafting or did good players happen to drop into our laps?  I was all in on Vita Vea but Payne is showing to be the better player.  

 

 

Allen was a slam dunk easy pick. Payne was debatable and you could argue we missed with Derwin James being available(although Payne has been good and we ended up trading for Haha anyway). But we've done a much better job in recent memory drafting in the middle/late rounds. Roullier, Moses, Crowder, Ion, Moreau etc.

[Thinking Skins]

One thing that I've been giving praise to the front office about, well actually two, is that we do a good job not only with the draft but also with the undrafted free agent market. Look at guys like Dunbar, Kelley, Bibbs, Harris, Johnson, Lanier, McKiney, Chesson, Dunn, . Its not that these guys are all home runs but that they're providing depth, and in some cases they're taking jobs and snaps away from higher round picks

 - Johnson getting snaps over Stroman,

 - Kelley over Jones, Kelley over Perine

 - McKiney over Anderson

 - Dunbar over Moreau / Breeland

 - Lanier over Ioannidis

 

In other cases we seem to be willing (trying) to develop them into good players, recognizing them as somewhat raw but with much higher ceilings than their draft position states. The obvious example of this is Dunbar who went from UDFA WR to backup CB who sees little to no playing time, to the #2 CB on the team replacing Breeland and doing a good job at it. Its what I think we were doing with Dunn, and what we seemed to be doing with Harris. And its a strategy that seems to be working. I know there was a lot of criticism of the LG position because we had Dunn instead of investing there in the draft or FA, and then we cut him instead of giving him a chance, but I think they're doing what they've been doing with the other players I mention here and trying to develop him into a legit player. 

 

It was interesting to me that with the departure of Fuller and Breeland, the top three names we heard to replace them were (1) Moreau, (2) Dunbar, and (3) Hosley. Honestly, Dunbar was more of an afterthought because of his UDFA status and Moreau's draft status. Then people were saying how confident coaches were in Holsley's potential in the slot. Then Hosley gets injured and we bring in Stroman and Johnson. Neither was having a great year this year (though admittedly they play outside as well) and so I thought we may see some activity like one of them (my thought was Johnson) getting cut to bring Hosley back. But no, when Hosely got healthy, he was cut and put on the PS. 

 

I think what we have here is a nice way of building a team. Its not focusing on the first rounders, but investing in low round picks and helping them to reach their potential in a year or two. If that potential is higher than the guys that are getting drafted by most teams in rounds 4-7 then we can come out ahead in this, and its not as dependent on things like draft picks or the luck of the draft, or even roster limitations because these guys are UDFAs so they can go on our PS because nobody wanted them (i.e. there'e little "hype" about them). This guy McKiney sat on our PS for like 10 weeks quietly, then his first live game action he starts getting people joking about him being the next Von Miller. Given those are jokes and shouldn't be taken seriously but it shows that this guy may have potential to have an impact in the league and that he may belong here.