WP: Josh Norman slams Redskins fans after road win: 'They boo everything'

[Coach Janky Spanky]

22 hours ago, SB17 said:

 

That said, the reason why fans boo at FedEx is not only because of what they’re seeing on the field that they don’t like.  It’s also because this is one of the few ways fans can directly tell  the owner what they think of how this team is run.

 

Yes, exactly right.  For years and years fans have been begging to anyone who would listen that the organization needs to do things differently, to hire a GM, to improve the scouting department, to start running the football operations like a first class organization.  It hasn't happened.  The dysfunction has set in, and we keep losing.  The fans' frustration is about that, pure and simple.  It's not about FedEx's awful location, the traffic, etc.  It's not even entirely about the losing.  It's about losing by doing things the wrong way and refusing to change.  People are finally speaking with their pocketbook, and staying away.   So, yeah, I don't really care about Josh Norman's opinion or DJ Swearinger's, although I'm not upset at them for having those and I can't honestly say their opinions are wrong.  

[sempre_victrix]

One problem that is pretty unique to DC is that Washington is a hub for the nation in terms of wealth inhabitants (Congress, their families, and their staffs), so, we have a higher percentage of long term out of town attendees.  Also, our proximity to NYC and Philly, plus Pittsburgh and Baltimore, allow their fans to easily drive down for a game.  Scalpers don't care who you cheer for when you have the cash.

 

Josh needs to realize that when you show the home fans a **** product, they are going to react in a negative way.  Does he expect to get cheered when you get blown out by the Falcons at home?  Or lose to Indy at home?  Or get cucked on MNF?

 

I'm glad that they're doing well.  If you want to be cheered, keep doing well, or at least make it look like you are worth the insane salary that you are getting.

 

Personally, I would take this criticism more seriously if it came from Williams or Kerrigan.

[Renegade7]

21 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I always got the impression, right or wrong, that the Skins crowds at away games were comprised of at least 50% Skins fans who travel to the game, not ones who happen to live in the area.

I'd say most of Redskins fans at Tampa were from different parts of Florida, maybe even Georgia, as opposed to Tampa itself.  Get what you thinking but you overthinking my post, saw some talking about going to Titans game because that's close to their area as they'll be for a while. When I was living in Hampton Roads, going to FedEx was basically a day trip.  

[Koolblue13]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Most of the negativity being complained about is directly related to one player, Alex Smith.  Why does not believing in Smith make folks bad fans?  

I dont think it does. Poor attendance and booing at games reflects on a fanbase. Like Swearinger and Norman said. Didn't moss and Portis say the same thing years ago?

[Commander_N_Chief]

I've been a life long fan of this team through the good and bad.  I've been a fan before Norman and DJ and I'll be a fan well after they're gone.  That doesn't mean that I wont voice my disapproval of how things have been for the last 3 decades.  However, that's not even my problem with him making the comments.  You and your teammates lost by over 20+ at home and honestly was worse than the score showed.  If they don't give a crap about their play on the field, you don't get to voice an opinion of fans voicing their opinions about your play.  You don't like the boos, do better at home consistently.

 

I've seen people here talk about it's not fair to boo players that haven't been here through the crap us fans have dealt with over almost 3 decades.  Ok, but there's plenty we can complain about them too.  For the vast majority this team is the one last year that blew playoff hopes at home against a NY Giants team that was playing for draft pick #1.  The night before a huge game against Tampa we have Z. Brown coming out complaining about the coaching staff causing more internal drama that most of us have grown accustomed to seeing.  We've seen this team not just lose, but have the doors blown off on all 3 of their loses 2 of those being at home.  Heck in terms of organizational dysfunction we've seen that this year again too.  Between the who really brought AP here saga, the finalization of Scott's termination, or how about the cheerleader scandal?

 

This isn't something that popped up over night, we've been a battered franchise that has been loyal for almost 30 years of these things happening year over year.  It'd be nice to have the players instead of calling us out for being the battered spouse in this relationship.  How about go out to the fans, be empathetic, humble, and find out why it's happening.

[Skinsfan1311]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

I always got the impression, right or wrong, that the Skins crowds at away games were comprised of at least 50% Skins fans who travel to the game, not ones who happen to live in the area.

I don't think Skins fans travel well at all.

We've travelled to a few Skins games, (Denver, Pittsburgh, Philthy,  Baltimore? and London). The only places I've seen lots of fellow Skins fans was in Baltimore & London.  Some of our friends said a lot traveled to New Orleans.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

30 minutes ago, thelongestbreath said:

How about go out to the fans, be empathetic, humble, and find out why it's happening.

This is what I meant by understanding why the players feel the way they do but there are more productive ways to go about it.  The response would probably be different had he taken the “please come out and support us, we need you, let bygones be bygones and show us love” angle.  Saying the fans “boo everything” is not only hyperbole but not conducive to getting others to see it from your point of view.

[OVCChairman]

2 minutes ago, Skinsfan1311 said:

I don't think Skins fans travel well at all.

We've travelled to a few Skins games, (Denver, Pittsburgh, Philthy,  Baltimore? and London). The only places I've seen lots of fellow Skins fans was in Baltimore & London.  Some of our friends said a lot traveled to New Orleans.

 

 

When Skins fans want to travel... we rival the best in sports.  The proof in that was the way we took over Canton for Darrell Green and Art Monk's HOF induction.  I also hear regular referrals to Tampa and Carolina as 'Fedex South.'  I heard the showing, as you mentioned, in New Orleans was also impressive.... 

[ixcuincle]

2 hours ago, Mooka said:

If this was a competently run organization then Norman would be benched for a game.

 

I don't understand why Norman should be benched for just speaking his mind. There are similar situations (Jalen Ramsey going off on the league in GQ) but this doesn't even come close. Heaven forbid we suspend an athlete for speaking his mind. 

 

"THERE ARE NO REDSKINS FANS HERE WHEN WE COME OUT OF THE TUNNEL" 

 

"What you said is bad. One game suspension for speaking the truth." 

[Koolblue13]

From DC to Boston, it's the most populated part of the world. People leave and move all over. They have fans everywhere. 

[Skinsfan1311]

Just now, OVCChairman said:

 

When Skins fans want to travel... we rival the best in sports.  The proof in that was the way we took over Canton for Darrell Green and Art Monk's HOF induction.  I also hear regular referrals to Tampa and Carolina as 'Fedex South.'  I heard the showing, as you mentioned, in New Orleans was also impressive.... 

I was referring to actual games, not the HOF.  The HOF trips, (we were there for Green/Monk & Russ Grimm). The Green/Monk induction was a once in a lifetime not to be missed epic experience. There weren't nearly as many Skins fans for Grimm. 

Carolina still has a pretty large Skins following, probably holdovers from when we were the closest team. Tampa, I cant explain. Maybe it's because Bucs fans stay away in droves,  and it's an attractive,  (and cheap), escape from the cold temps in DV

[OVCChairman]

2 minutes ago, Skinsfan1311 said:

I was referring to actual games, not the HOF.  The HOF trips, (we were there for Green/Monk & Russ Grimm). The Green/Monk induction was a once in a lifetime not to be missed epic experience. There weren't nearly as many Skins fans for Grimm. 

Carolina still has a pretty large Skins following, probably holdovers from when we were the closest team. Tampa, I cant explain. Maybe it's because Bucs fans stay away in droves,  and it's an attractive,  (and cheap), escape from the cold temps in DV

 

 

Still has merit... when the fans have something they believe in supporting... they do it.  I'd also venture to guess that if you asked Pez / Huly, they'd report that the overall numbers to the send off / welcome home gatherings have dropped.  When Gibbs was the HC was the last time I was able to attend one of those, and I remember dozens of people there lining the road to Redskins park with signs to show the support.  In fact, I was there during the Welcome Home after we lost to Seattle in the playoffs... Gibbs' last game.  It was butt numbing cold, raining, and late LATE at night.  Gibbs had the bus driver stop and he got off and signed autographs.  The crowd was large enough that he was out there for a good 15-20 minutes.  I remember PAGES of people responding to the SO / WH thread of people stating they would be there.  

 

To tie it all back to the original point.... 

 

We're a passionate fanbase that has lost its luster.  IMHO I feel it's not fair to punish the TEAM because of the owner.  Does me going to the game and screaming my head off make a difference on the field when were on defense?   Nope.... but 15,000 of me doing it does.  I understand that people want to be able to boo the team if they're frustrated.  You have that right.  I understand that people have the right to want to be able to go to a stadium and watch the game seated... and get frustrated when people in front of them are standing.   I also hold the right to think that's a waste of money and that I have every right to do what I want to do while in my seat.  I've even gone as far to move back in a section if I see an elderly person, knowing that I would be blocking their view.  I've been asked at multiple different Redskins games to have a seat because, and this is a direct quote "you're disturbing the experience of the other fans."  It's pushed me to be hesitant to go to games.  It's pushed me to not have as enjoyable of an experience.  

 

I also had the wonderful experience of sitting club level multiple games with my Uncle.  One game we were at, we went into the Cigar bar to grab a beer and when we walked in (During the game, it was not half time, it was a change of possession) the Wizards game was on the massive big screen TV.  The Wizards game was on most of the TVs in the bar.  

 

Norman shouldn't have called out the fans imho, because I don't think it's the fans that are the defining cause of it.  As others have stated, the stadium experience sucks...  It's not what it was at RFK.  It's not even as good as it was when it was JKC, and during the early years of Fedex Field.  Norman was right, but I don't think his target was pointed in the right direction.  I always believed that Redskins fans are good enough to pack a dirt lot if we were winning games... but I don't think that's the case anymore.  Unfortunately it's gotten bad enough that even when we're winning... it's not really that fun to be there. 

[hail2skins]

3 hours ago, Califan007 said:

It used to be that if you were a Redskins fan and wanted to feel a part of the Skins community, you either went to games or watched them at a Skins-friendly sports bar.

Great post Cali but just wanted to highlight this sentence. Even at the stadium, the feeling of community is not there as much anymore. For the most part, I've set in the club level for pretty much all of the games I've attended there over the past 20 years (which has been most of them), but this week I'm going to be in the lower level (200s) and hope to get a different perspective. Because at least the lower level still seems full.  But the club and upper levels? Aside from Dallas, its been depressing to see those levels at most 60 percent full. For the opening day game against Indy, I was in one of the sideline club sections, around the 20, row 10, and I made it a point to count the number of seats in the five rows directly behind me. Total number of seats: 70. Number occupied throughout the game: 10.  I was stunned.

 

Just on a lark, just looked at Stubhub at corner club sections 314-316, which I have noticed have been pretty much  deserted for every game except for Dallas this season. There are no more than 10 seats currently available for sale in each of these sections. What is going on?

[Alexa]

The fan base is dead. They play in a crappy stadium, in a crappy part of town and have no stars. We have a QB that the fans for the most part don't want, a 33 year year old RB that is a one year rental, no wr's. When we drafted RG3 the fan base came alive again. We need to draft a star or potential star at QB where the fans can gravitate to. Guice can also be a potential star. 

[Mooka]

53 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

 

I don't understand why Norman should be benched for just speaking his mind. There are similar situations (Jalen Ramsey going off on the league in GQ) but this doesn't even come close. Heaven forbid we suspend an athlete for speaking his mind. 

 

"THERE ARE NO REDSKINS FANS HERE WHEN WE COME OUT OF THE TUNNEL" 

 

"What you said is bad. One game suspension for speaking the truth." 

 

You think for 2 seconds a New England Patriot would speak his mind about their fans on social media?

 

Hellllllllllll no

[ixcuincle]

18 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

You think for 2 seconds a New England Patriot would speak his mind about their fans on social media?

 

Hellllllllllll no

 

Yeah but that is a different organization. Suddenly mouthing off on social media is frowned upon? 

[Spearfeather]

3 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

 

Yeah but that is a different organization. Suddenly mouthing off on social media is frowned upon? 

 

I thought both of their comments were done in interviews, and then spread through twitter.

[NewCliche21]

7 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

@NewCliche21 so why are the players making it up? Why are other fans of the Redskins making it up? Why were you agreeing with the sentiment earlier if its wrong? 

 

You've already said they are right and you just dont like them saying it. It's not an argument. At all. Everyone agrees. The issue you seem to have is admitting it.

 

Bro, if I said that they're right and I don't like them saying it, then how is that not admitting that they're right?

 

Keep **** in house.  Keep thoughts about your fanbase to yourself.  See what Norman posted earlier encouraging fans to bring their A game this Sunday?  That's how you do it.  Talk **** in the locker room, but keep the dirty laundry in house.

[NewCliche21]

11 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

 

Yeah but that is a different organization. Suddenly mouthing off on social media is frowned upon? 

 

1)  Yeah, the Patriots have been to seven Super Bowls and won five in the past 18 years.  They've been a lock for the divisional if not conference championship every year.  They benched their corner in the Super Bowl for whatever reason that must not be much of a deal if it hasn't leaked. 

 

We have won a playoff game.  Which organization do you want to emulate?

 

2)  Yeah, it's frowned upon when it makes the organization look bad.  That's not new or exclusive to the NFL.

 

3)  I don't think he should be benched, maybe fined, but preferably (a bit after posting this initially with no sleep) a talk from Gruden basically saying, "Josh, cut it out."  And that being that.

[thebluefood]

I haven't been posting here as often as I used to because my relationship with the team has changed. It's almost like being estranged from a family member. I still keep my eye on the 'Skins out of habit and interest but I, essentially, don't have a team anymore.

 

But I saw this story on Twitter and its been on my mind a bit over the past few days. 

 

I don't expect Josh Norman to know or understand what its been like over the past 25 years. The 'Skins are off to a 6-3 start and they're leading the division. For most teams, this would be more than enough reason to celebrate with few (if any) reservations. But what Norman (and others) fail to realize is that we've seen this before. What's 6-3 to a fanbase that clearly remembers a year when the team started 7-1 and still managed to lose the division pennant and a playoff spot? I was only 5-years-old that season and I wasn't even a "football fan" per se but I remember it. I also remember the year this team started 6-2 only to do the inverse in the second half of the year. The 'Skins fanbase has seen damn near everything. 

 

Now you factor that in with decades of poor managerial decision on and off the field, under the current and preceding franchise leadership (let's not forget this snowball started under The Squire's watch, albeit toward the end of it) and all the time and money you spent to go out to the stadium (and we need not go into how much "fun" that is). And yet he's wondering why the boo birds take wing at Landover. Hell, the Eagles fans let their team know how they felt on Sunday night and they're the defending Super Bowl Champions. And you know what? They were absolutely justified in doing it. The Eagles have played like crap this year. Same with Giants fans who've seen their team win two Super Bowls over the past decade. 

 

I'm not saying booing is always called for or necessary but at least there are folks who actually take their time and resources to show up in the first place. Until things change dramatically with this franchise, I will not be among them and I've got a feeling I'm not alone in that feeling.

[Warhead36]

Our fans actually do travel well. I remember the 2015 division winning game in Philly, there were quite a few Redskins fans at the end of the game. And the 2012 Thanksgiving game in Dallas, there were loud RG3 chants.

 

Well I don't know if they travel or we just have people who live in those cities. Like I said, the transient city argument is a bad one because just about every major metropolitan city in 2018 is transient to some degree.

[HardcoreZorn]

3 hours ago, Coach Janky Spanky said:

 

Yes, exactly right.  For years and years fans have been begging to anyone who would listen that the organization needs to do things differently, to hire a GM, to improve the scouting department, to start running the football operations like a first class organization.  It hasn't happened.  The dysfunction has set in, and we keep losing.  The fans' frustration is about that, pure and simple.  It's not about FedEx's awful location, the traffic, etc.  It's not even entirely about the losing.  It's about losing by doing things the wrong way and refusing to change.  People are finally speaking with their pocketbook, and staying away.   So, yeah, I don't really care about Josh Norman's opinion or DJ Swearinger's, although I'm not upset at them for having those and I can't honestly say their opinions are wrong.  

 

Here's where Josh and DJ and some of the fans aren't understanding where you are coming from, at all.

 

You can say we keep losing till you are blue in the face, but fact of the matter is we made the playoffs in 2015, weak division or not. We controlled our own destiny in 2016 and fell flat on our faces against a Giants team with nothing to play for, yes, but still finished with back to back winning seasons for the first time under Snyder. Progress, right? 2017 if it weren't for catastrophic injuries on BOTH sides of the ball, instead of just one like this year, we most likely are a 9-10 win team. We won 7 with the most injured NFL team since 2002 or something like that. Now this year we are 6-3, with a 2 game lead in the division.

 

Now, does the above represent some powerhouse dynasty that deserves no criticism? Of course not. Does it represent a team that is continually dysfunctional like it used to be that "keeps losing?" Eh I don't think so. In reality, it's somewhere between those two extremes. Except a large segment of the fan base acts as if we have been 3-13, 5-11, 4-12, and now 3-6 the past 4 seasons. It was an operative point for me all off-season and actually caused me to join the site instead of lurking like I did for years. I couldn't wrap my head around the bitter hatred for the team, despite to me the tremendous progress that had been made. And yes, I'm well aware the bar was not set high.

 

Haven't we beefed up the scouting department? These past two drafts have been excellent if we are being real. Even before that is upper echelon when comparing to the rest of the league. A big part of that has to do with the work of Kyle Smith supposedly, who is being empowered by those at the top. You don't luck into becoming a good drafting team consistently. You have continuity, systems in place that the evaluators are familiar with which enables a guy like Kyle Smith to identify potential schematic fits. It enhances player development. It creates a better football team. That's what's going on here, yet all you can think about is the 20 years before that.

 

Take a look at the defense. The defense that everyone can admit has played an instrumental part in being 6-3 currently.

 

Ioanidis-Drafted

Payne-Drafted

Allen-Drafted

Kerrigan-Drafted

Anderson-Drafted

Smith-Drafted

Moreau-Drafted

Dunbar-UDFA

Stroman-Drafted

Nicholson-Drafted

Josh Harvey Clemons-Drafted

 

That's 11 guys who were drafted/developed by this organization who have contributed to the defensive side of the ball this season. Not even counting lesser knowns like Settle and Shaun Dion Hamilton who I'm excited about. We are becoming a pipeline of talent, and through the draft.

 

We've supplemented them with guys like Norman,Zach Brown, DJ, now Haha. Even Mason was a good find via FA. That's a damn good job of building a defense right there, and they will only get better as most of these pieces are very young.

 

You, and the others who feel this way, are broken. And I'd be lying if I said I didn't understand it, cause I've endured the same thing. But change is evident. Results are coming. And I think it would be far more productive to create a competitive homefield advantage instead of using it as an outlet to boo snyder/allen. But to each their.

[Alexa]

We don't have one superstar on this team. Not one. 

[HardcoreZorn]

14 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’ve been to numerous boo-worthy games over the years and never booed.  Although I’m pretty sure I joined a chant for Beck after watching Grossman carelessly heave it to the Titans numerous times in the first half.  Yes, that is as sad as it sounds.

 

However I do totally understand folks having the desire to boo.  I venture a guess a lot of those boos come from season ticket holders that have been sitting through these ass-kickings for decades.  They are indeed battered.  Going to Skins games and leaving miserable is a way of life for these folks.    The seats I usually get are surrounded by STH who can be a real good time, but it doesn’t take much for the pessimism to set in. Understandably so.  It’s going to take more than an ugly hot start to one season before they stop feeling duped by this team.  Fairly or unfairly. 

 

Josh and the other players/coaches are not responsible for all the years of letdown.  I don’t expect them to understand that they are carrying the burden of Dan Snyder’s Redskins.  That those boos are much less about them and much more about the displeasure with their bosses.

 

Perhaps those complaining about the complainers should buy more tickets and drown out these awful fans you hate so much.

First, thank you for responding this way instead of joining in on a pow-wow calling me Bruce Allen. It's appreciated.

 

You then, wouldn't be someone Josh is referring to. And that's admirable. And nothing wrong with chanting Beck that year. Beck/Grossman make Alex Smith look like a HOF lol.

 

I get where the frustration stems from. I just don't get why now? And it's the why we vehemently disagree on, no reason to travel that path. But just so you know where I'm coming from. It's not like I haven't been paying attention for the past 15 years and am confused Fed Ex isn't rocking like RFK back in the glory years.

 

Josh could have maybe taken a different approach, I don't disagree that it could become counterproductive and shun some fans even more. But I am glad he said something, because to me, the environment plays such a pivotal role in football. It was huge on our only playoff runs, 2005 2007 and 2012. I was at many of those games and the place was rocking. Momentum, atmosphere, they DO play a part. And a bigger one than many realize. So in a season where we are where we are, which is at the top of the division, it seems counter productive to create an atmosphere the players feed off negatively. That's all Josh is saying IMO.

 

If I hadn't moved out West, I'd still be there. I know it comes off high and mighty when I trash those fans. But I just will never understand a post like the one I saw a couple pages back, asserting the Skins could win back to back super-bowls and he still wouldn't be drawn back in. At that point, it's probably best to move on...I care about the team and it's success as much as you and all the others here. I just channel my energy a little differently, and try and realize there's nothing you can do about the past. So I focus more on what's going on now, and I like what's going on now. You and others don't and that's cool. We agree to disagree.

[HardcoreZorn]

19 minutes ago, Alexa said:

We don't have one superstar on this team. Not one. 

I wasn't around for the glory years, but I don't ever remember thinking or hearing those teams were littered with super stars. At least not in the traditional sense.

 

I mean 3 Super Bowls in a decade and what, 3 HOF? Green Riggo and Monk? Don't ever remember learning the Redskins had the flashiest of players and a bunch of super stars. Just great teams.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, Idk. I think guys like Guice, Allen, Payne have the potential to be stars in this league though. Peterson is the closest thing we have now, and even though he's 33 and a one year rental, he's doing star things. Just unconventional how it happened but we shouldn't discredit his accomplishments thus far.