Redskins Fans: Let’s Stop Being Pansies

[OVCChairman]

kleese  Cheers bud, I popped onto your profile and see you're nowhere near the DC metro... or I'd suggest we get together for an drink.

 

 

[bowhunter]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 Even defended Larry Michael for well over a decade -- every time a thread pops up. 

Side note. What is Larry Michaels appeal to this FO? Yes, he is paid to be a homer, but it's difficult to take him seriously. He doesn't seem to bring much inside info to the players or the sport. Last weekend I was visiting inlaws in NC and had to listen to the game during my drive back home, I was happy to know that SiriusXM offered the home feed of game. Larry is NOT GOOD at calling a game to the radio listener. Some people have the gift of helping a listener visualize whats happening on the field. Larry doesn't have it. Nor does he compensate for that deficiency with a strong knowledge base of the game itself, or even an affable nature. He is, in essence, a buffoonish cheerleader. One that I hope to God I never have to see in the Cheerleaders Swimsuit Calendar.

[goskins10]

9 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

.....I’ll be honest 

 

it’s real tiring when out of state fans have the most **** to talk. 

 

I truly believe that unless you live here, it’s a little different on your end. You truly just don’t understand 

 

 

anyways, I enjoyed the thread, Kleese. I’ll do my part. I’ll be in attendance 

 

So if you live out of town you don't get to have an opinion? You don't understand what it's like to be a Redskins fan? That is complete load of bull****. I have been a fan since 1968. I left in 1989 due to school and jobs. But I can promise you I "understand" perfectly. Emotionally lived and died with every game. 

 

I really don't think you understand the OP at all to be able to even make that statement. 

[DCtoSC_SKINS_LIFER]

@Burgold  You did a better job of putting into print the feelings I tried to convey in the post I made right above yours. We’re very much on the same page. I enjoy the **** out of the irrationally optimistic Sunday bubble that I hang out in for 3 hours a week...well most weeks it’s only a 1.5 hour bubble, but still....

[goskins10]

7 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I’m trying to get back to being a fan. I’ll be honest, right now, the franchise in general irritates the **** out of me. Everything about it represents misguided, undeserved arrogance and smugness.

 

Edit

 

But again, I’ll try to be better. 

 

I’ll cheer my ass off Sunday. Hope we kick their asses.

 

And then you follow up with this that I almost 100% agree with. Only difference is still the need to differentiate between fans in and out of the area. But I already said my peace there. 

 

My biggest problem with the team is the statement I did not edit for space. The attitude of the organization to the fans, media, and most anyone is pure arrogance. I too have put a self imposed ban on going to FedEx. It is a personal decision. I totally get why people want to go. The game day experience when we win is awesome. I would never try to talk someone else out of going. I just personally do not want Dan to get any of my money. I have even told my friends and family to stop buying me anything Redskins (I used to be an easy out on Bdays and Xmas, now they have to think some..). 

 

But that does not stop me from wanting to win every game. Unfortunately I just can't let myself enjoy wins as much as before. There is this constant cloud over my head that is the teams FO and management. The arrogance, deciet, the poor treatment of people and the community. The fact that every win seems to get us closer to another embarrassment. 

 

Winning will not change how I spend my $. It will however make it so I can enjoy wins again. Like I used to in the 1970s and 1980s. 

 

We need to kick some dallast ass!!!  HTTR!!

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, bowhunter said:

Side note. What is Larry Michaels appeal to this FO? Yes, he is paid to be a homer, but it's difficult to take him seriously. He doesn't seem to bring much inside info to the players or the sport. Last weekend I was visiting inlaws in NC and had to listen to the game during my drive back home, I was happy to know that SiriusXM offered the home feed of game. Larry is NOT GOOD at calling a game to the radio listener. Some people have the gift of helping a listener visualize whats happening on the field. Larry doesn't have it. Nor does he compensate for that deficiency with a strong knowledge base of the game itself, or even an affable nature. He is, in essence, a buffoonish cheerleader. One that I hope to God I never have to see in the Cheerleaders Swimsuit Calendar.

 

LOL, yeah Larry Michael in an odd way brings my perspective home.

 

To me the dude is doing his job.  He works at Redskins Park.  I like to listen to homerism perspective sometimes just to feel good.  On the other hand, if all we got where homeristic views from all over the place I think it would be boring.  If threads here were just purely, hey the Redskins acquired for example Scandrick lets just count the ways of how much we love the signing -- no criticism allowed, I think again boring.  If I am buying a book about football or a magazine and its just a pure fluff piece, that's just spins everything in a positive way and thereby offers really no critical thinking -- to me I find that boring, too. I think most would whether they admitted it or not.  It would be like that Jim Carrey film (forgot what the movie was called) where everyone fell in line and things were sterile.  It was comical in part because the whole scene was artificial and boring. 

 

Now to Larry Michael.  I think you need sometimes that pure Redskins spin for a change and I think he's good at it.  IMO, if all media was Larry Michael like and all fans were like that too - it would likely be sports media being ultimately run out of business.  It would be unwatchable-unlistenable.   But that's not how it is.  So Larry to me fills a vacuum and does it well.  Likewise for example, if everyone was bashing Bruce and he had no defenders that would be boring, too.   I don't think though any segment of the fan base, the more homer type and the more critical type should feel that they have an entitled angle that people should share. 

 

Personally I consider myself somewhere in between those two groups.  Some of the people here who like Bruce would laugh at that description -- and they'd be right if fandom is defined purely in terms of Bruce.  I put a lot of things i don't like with the team on Bruce.  I do think Dan is more hands off these days than some think and I do think there is a fighting chance he could be changed.  I am one of the more ardent defenders of Jay on the board even when its not cool.  I am not one of the ones who piles on Doctson. I can give many examples like that.  My button is Bruce and a lot of that is tied to Kirk and the QB position.  Others have other buttons.  I don't think too many people here just love everything the team does - most of us have our buttons.

 

But bringing it back to Larry, I think he does his job well.  I've had a few interactions with him that perhaps make me predisposed to liking him but he comes off like a great guy.  And one of my pet peeves about Bruce is his behavior.  So to be consistent on that point, I am going to be predisposed to like people who are think are cool people including Jay and Larry.  

 

Circling back to some of the points here (not directed your way).  I like a lot of the feel good about the team vibes.  I made the comment myself on the game thread saying I am going to enjoy it and a win is a win.  But to me I don't think voicing some concerns in the week after a win spoils squat for anyone else's enjoyment or IMO it shouldn't.  Thats just fans being fans -- if its just how much do we love the Redskins this week, we love everything -- I think that's a boring discussion.  So those that want this or that better, its fine with me.  I like Doctson for example better than most.  But people taking shots at him, doesn't spoil the enjoyment of squat for me.  I enjoy wins or sulk in losses purely based on my own feelings about it -- not other fans feelings about it. 

 

 

[goskins10]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

LOL, yeah Larry Michael in an odd way brings my perspective home.

 

To me the dude is doing his job.  He works at Redskins Park.  I like to listen to homerism perspective sometimes just to feel good.  On the other hand, if all we got where homeristic views from all over the place I think it would be boring.  If threads here where just purely, hey the Redskins acquired for example Scandrick lets just count the ways of how much we love the signing -- no criticism allowed, I think again boring.  If I am buying a book about football or a magazine and its just a pure fluff piece, that's just spins everything in a positive way and thereby offers really no critical thinking -- to me I find that boring, too. I think most would whether they admitted it or not.  It would be like that Jim Carrey film (forgot what the movie was called) where everyone fell in line and things were sterile.  It was comical in part because the whole scene was artificial and boring. 

 

Edit 

 

Circling back to some of the points here (not directed your way).  I like a lot of the feel good abut the team vibes.  I made the comment myself on the game thread saying I am going to enjoy it and a win is a win.  But to me I don't think voicing some concerns in the week after a win spoils squat for anyone else's enjoyment or IMO it shouldn't.  Thats just fans being fans -- if its just how much do we love the Redskins this week, we love everything -- I think that's a boring discussion.  So those that want this or that better, its fine with me.  I like Doctson for example better than most.  But people taking shots at him, doesn't spoil the enjoyment of squat for me.  I enjoy wins or sulk in losses purely based on my own feelings about it -- not other fans feelings about it. 

 

 

 

 

I agree this is not, or at least should not be a problem. And I do not think the OP was suggesting that. It's the attitude that if you are not as pessimistic about the team, or various players, you are just dumb or don't know football, or are a homer. And on the other side if you voice a concern there is a contingent that lumps you into the other group as a malcontent who wants the team to lose so you can be "right". 

 

As someone who has been accused of both (sometimes simultaneously), the issue that I believe the OP was addressing - and I happen to agree with - is not the sharing of concerns moving forward or the excitement of a win. It's that even with a win there is a "you are delusional/stupid/don't know football etc, if you think this is sustainable" Countered by the, if you make any constructive concerns they are met with - "You just hate the team and want them to fail!"

 

The middle is not an issue. It's the extremes. 

[Koolblue13]

Pretty sure we're about to run off 2 division wins, which gets us into the talk about playoffs and erases the stink from those 2 ugly losses.

 

We should beat the Falcons after that and then hit a rough patch.

[Bigmuss1]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Pretty sure we're about to run off 2 division wins, which gets us into the talk about playoffs and erases the stink from those 2 ugly losses.

I hope so!!!!!!  

[Springfield]

I’m just apathetic.  I think that’s ok.  I watch football, mostly the Redskins, and I just don’t care all that much any more.  If they win, cool.  If the my lose, no big deal.  I don’t have any expectations of the team.

 

Any week, they could go out and beat any team.  The next week they could lose to a bottom dweller.  Most of the time it won’t look pretty either way.  That’s what I’ve grown accustomed to as a Redskins fan.

 

Do I hope they win? Yes.  

Do I expect them to win?  Not really.  

Is it going to ruin my week if they lose?  I’ll forget about it by Monday morning.

 

I’m just not that enthusiastic 20-something that lives and dies with a football team any more.  Haven’t been for a while.

[Skinsinparadise]

58 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

I agree this is not, or at least should not be a problem. And I do not think the OP was suggesting that. It's the attitude that if you are not as pessimistic about the team, or various players, you are just dumb or don't know football, or are a homer. And on the other side if you voice a concern there is a contingent that lumps you into the other group as a malcontent who wants the team to lose so you can be "right". 

 

As someone who has been accused of both (sometimes simultaneously), the issue that I believe the OP was addressing - and I happen to agree with - is not the sharing of concerns moving forward or the excitement of a win. It's that even with a win there is a "you are delusional/stupid/don't know football etc, if you think this is sustainable" Countered by the, if you make any constructive concerns they are met with - "You just hate the team and want them to fail!"

 

The middle is not an issue. It's the extremes. 

 

Sure.  Good points.  I've been on this board for a long time and I think by a mile the most toxic subjects during that time have been RG3, Kirk, Vinny and Bruce.  And you can argue all of those subjects have some interconnections to add even more zest to that discussion. I've taken my positions on all of it, and on some even switched positions. But if you get past those subjects, I think there is a lot of agreement and good discussion. But the other 4 subjects have deep seated meaning to a lot of people for various reasons.    It's like the discussion of Jerry on Cowboy boards from what I've noticed.  Or Beckham -- great player or bad for the locker room talk.  A lot of teams have their own version of hot buttons with polarizing discussion.  

 

Those are the subjects that get hot. And judging by posts by both sides.  Both sides think the other side can be patronizing and negative. Will that go away?  I don't know.   Other than that, I think the conversations are pretty normal.  I've visited other fan boards and NFL boards.  Similar discussions.  Does Jason Whitten have anything left?  Is Romo all that or overrated?   You have a little of everything.  

 

As to your point about the extremes, like you, i've been labeled as a hater by some of the more homer types.  And it annoys me because I think its insane to be labeled based on what you think of one executive.  Executives can change.  This isn't a king that we are stuck with for life where its get on board or else.  And as i pointed in another post, I see it as a positive for any fan to try to voice (versus in my mind enable it) or do something to help the team they like even if it ends up in vein. 

 

If I am putting on my Redskins gear every weekend.  Spending thousands of dollars on it -- merchandize, tickets, etc.  Usually supporting the coach, most of the players.   Pretty much predicting them to win every week.  Heck even defend the ultimate homer, Larry Michael. That's pretty close to being a definition of a homer.    And I am not just talking about myself here.  I am just saying if we are talking about extremes -- and i've seen the flip side point of view presented in a post or two.  

 

As for Kleese specifically, I agree with the sprit of it.  I enjoy every win immensely.  It makes my week.  I just disagree with a post or two here that seem to imply that if you throw out there things you don't like that you'd like to improve in spite of the win -- it rains on any parade.  IMO if it rains on anyone's parade than their fandom I'd presume is a bit fragile.  Or heck maybe its just different personalities because for me if someone criticizes something where I disagree -- I might debate them on the point but it doesn't spoil my mood one bit at least not in the context of fandom.   Heck I was defending Jay after the Saints game  that week on a thread that's mostly anti-Jay.  I engaged.  It didn't change my mood. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Pretty sure we're about to run off 2 division wins, which gets us into the talk about playoffs and erases the stink from those 2 ugly losses.

 

I think they have a shot at it, too.  It brings home to me the hater-homer discussion -- this team has really given a little bit, actually arguably an equal amount to both points of view.  I think a run for a change -- some consistency would bring some harmonious discussion and more positivity for those who crave it. 

[NoCalMike]

The 'Skins were last in the Super bowl when I was 11 years old.  All through my teens, twenties, and now thirties this franchise has effectively turned me into this fella.

 

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think they have a shot at it, too.  It brings home to me the hater-homer discussion -- this team has really given a little bit, actually arguably an equal amount to both points of view.  I think a run for a change -- some consistency would bring some harmonious discussion and more positivity for those who crave it. 

We're a much better team than the next 3 opponents, so we need to win those games. Were much better than the Colts and they owned us.

 

If we can stay healthy, were going to become a better team down the stretch I think. New QB, youth on defense, etc.

 

We need to gain momentum before we have to play the eagles, because they will get better too.

 

Losing to bottom dwellers, prime time blowouts, never firmly holding a lead, these things eat at a fanbase. We need and should go 5-1 in the east at least.

[dyst]

Raises hands as one of the pessimistic ones. I agree, fans should not be arguing with each other. Some of us are just wired differently. It is what it is. There are several things that can be done to mitigate this and all of it falls on the team. For starters, they can try to win 2 games in a row. That is really not asking for much. 2 games, such a simple request and yet is so difficult for this team to accomplish. They can easily lose two in a row but winning two games, back to back, is like asking for a miracle from them. They can try not looking like crap on national TV, during a prime time game. We have such low expectations, that we're not even asking  them to win, just don't play like crap, that's all. Win two in a row and try not to wet your pants when it's a nationally televised game on prime time. Baby steps man. We are not negative because we hate the team, we are negative, because we expect more of the team. But to be honest, the negativity is not as bad as it once was. Most fans now are apathetic. 

 

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

You know what I hate? Ice cubes.

 

Give me a glass of tepid, room temperature water, and I'm a happy man. And no goddamn bubbles either. Those excite the blood. I'm a simple man of simple tastes. I sit in my Barco-lounger every Sundary, turn on my 19-inch Zenith and I watch my Redskins.

 

You know my favorite thing about the Redskins? 

 

They never miss a game - unless it's a bye week of course. And, let me tell you, I do love bye weeks. Every year, on the bye, I take a 4 block walk at a very reasonable pace. Then I come home, eat some cottage cheese, and read Pilgrims Progress, which is the only book I read besides the Bible.

 

But back to the Redskins. They are always there. If the schedule maker says that they play at 1 PM, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will be there at 1 PM. Unless there is a bad storm or a national tragedy. And frankly some things are more important than football.

 

As long as the Skins show up, each Sunday or occasional Monday or I suppose a Thursday, I'm watching them. Because they never let me down by not being there. Unless someone important dies of course.

 

To me, that's what fandom is. It's a contract. The Skins show up, and I cheer their effort. Because, let's face it, these fellas try hard. It's a tough sport.

 

You know, when you think about it, the worst fans are the ones who pay attention to things like "records" and "scores" and "standings."Sherman Helmsley never kept score. He just showed up week after week, called someone a honky, and entertained America.

 

And that's what the Redkins are to me. Appointment television. Because they are always there.

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

 

And that's what the Redkins are to me. Appointment television. Because they are always there.

So, what you're saying is that all those people begging for consistency from the Redskins have always had exactly what they wanted?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Just now, Burgold said:

So, what you're saying is that all those people begging for consistency from the Redskins have always had exactly what they wanted?

 

The Redskins are the Mama's Family of football. They are on every week whether you want them to be or not. And that's just fine. Kleese thinks Vicki Lawrence is a hoot, and who has the right to question him?

 

You? I think not.

[Dancing Bear]

10 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

.....I’ll be honest 

 

it’s real tiring when out of state fans have the most **** to talk. 

 

I truly believe that unless you live here, it’s a little different on your end. You truly just don’t understand 

 

 

anyways, I enjoyed the thread, Kleese. I’ll do my part. I’ll be in attendance 

 

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

So if you live out of town you don't get to have an opinion? You don't understand what it's like to be a Redskins fan? That is complete load of bull****. I have been a fan since 1968. I left in 1989 due to school and jobs. But I can promise you I "understand" perfectly. Emotionally lived and died with every game. 

 

I really don't think you understand the OP at all to be able to even make that statement. 

Yeah, tbh Brave your post ticks me off as well. I was born in the DC and grew up watching George Allen and the "Over-the-hill-gang". But life happen and as the result, I was unable to stay in the area. I cheered "out-of-state" for the skins through 4 super bowls and groan through the less than .500 seasons. 

Brave, we "out-of-state" fans(like goskins10 and myself) have it harder than you and your buds. Once neighbors find out that you're a skins fan, they would ride us whenever the skin loses. And forget about it if our team lose to the local pro team(we never hear the end of it). I can only imagine what redskin fans living in Dallas, New York or Philadelphia have to deal with. Lucky for me, the Atlanta Falcons are not that great either, so don't get much from their fans. 

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm not originally from DC. I chose this team, because I was 8 and they were good.

 

Want to know what I'm pissed off? Because sports are insane. Nowhere else in life are you punished for a bad decision you made when you were 8 years old unless, you know, you murdered your parents or something.

 

My Redskins fandom is the equivalent of a felony conviction. I can't escape it.

 

That's really what the Redskins slogan should be.

 

"Washington Redskins: Like peeing behind a school when you are 18, it stays on your record forever."

[Burgold]

7 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

 

My Redskins fandom is the equivalent of a felony conviction. I can't escape it.

I guess that makes every win a conjugal visit...

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Ok guys. 

 

Im not saying you can’t be die hard fan if you’re out of state. 

 

Im saying I don’t think you can fully understand all the reasons why the fan base is where it is if you don’t live here and see/feel it all every day. You guys can’t be at the Stadium every week. You don’t see the erosion of fan support on a daily basis. I’m sorry if that bothers you. 

 

For instance, I support London based soccer club Arsenal. Last two or so seasons, the fans nearly staged a mutiny knee manager Arsene Wenger’s refusal to step down after 20 some years at the job. I wanted him gone to but as I started watching videos and vlogs from fans actually in North London, I realized that there was just some parts that even I couldn’t fully grasp onto because I live in another country. I still wake up super early on weekends to watch them play and live and die with every game tho. 

[JSSkinz]

39 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

turn on my 19-inch Zenith and I watch my Redskins.

Out of all the posts, the most shocking thing I've read is the size of your tv, save your eyes and at least grab yourself a 32in. ?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

2 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

 

For instance, I support London based soccer club Arsenal.

 

You're just the worst.....

1 minute ago, JSSkinz said:

Out of all the posts, the most shocking thing I've read is the size of your tv, save your eyes and at least grab yourself a 32in. ?

 

I seriously hate everyone.

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Pretty sure we're about to run off 2 division wins, which gets us into the talk about playoffs and erases the stink from those 2 ugly losses.

 

We should beat the Falcons after that and then hit a rough patch.

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think they have a shot at it, too.  It brings home to me the hater-homer discussion -- this team has really given a little bit, actually arguably an equal amount to both points of view.  I think a run for a change -- some consistency would bring some harmonious discussion and more positivity for those who crave it. 

 

 

Not to hijack this thread but if you look at the sched... the remaining 11 games are winnable.  We got through the toughest part of ours schedule going 2-1.  We got through the easiest part at 1-1... which is the maddening part. 

 

Looking at the trajectory of the teams we're facing, mixed with the fact that we have divisional games, I find myself saying "we'll lose because Redskins."  Not that we're clearly inferior to this team, or that team... but that we'll find a way to lose games we should win, because that's what we do.  That's the part that gets me apathetic.  We have the ability and team to win the rest of our games this year.  Atlanta is likely the best team we play from here on out..  TB is on the down slope, Houston and Tenn are both not as good as we thought they would be, and Jax just gave up 40 to Dallas.  We face ZERO... yes ZERO teams that have a record above .500 for the remainder of the season.   

 

We should all be extremely excited, but this team has beaten us down to much, we can't be.  We KNOW something is going to happen over the next 2 months that will break our hearts.  We've seen it happen.  Some of us decide to look for hope... some are bracing for the fall... we're pretty much all actually in the same place, what we do with it is our own doing.  I had a conversation the other day with a friend of mine, about how funny it is that people like certain foods... In most instances, a tomato tastes the same to two different people... one person enjoys them, the other does not.  Why is that?  The flavor, in most cases, is not any different...