petey hodge

Does Doctson even care?

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Posted (edited)

 

8 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

The dead money?? It's a 10million dollar option and I would think all goes to dead money. Either you pay him or you play him. 

If you cut him before the league year there is no dead money. 5th year options are only guaranteed for injury.

Edited by Darc Requiem

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If I recall the bust rate for first rounders is give or take 40% and its much higher or so it seems for receivers of late.   There have been a lot of outright bust first round receivers.  I don't put Doctson in that category.  He has his moments.  Right now IMO, he's played like a #3.  Receiver is the slowest position typically for a player to develop.  I am giving Doctson this season to see if he emerges and if its same old same old, he's a dude worth keeping on the field albeit in that case he didn't develop to being a #1 or arguably a #2 either.  He played with a bit more attitude last year and developed into a good blocker.  He didn't have the best QB play so I'll give him another pass.  But this season is his last stand for me.  

 

Having said that I've learned to appreciate Pierre Garcon more now that he's gone.  He plays with fire and is feisty and can beat press coverage and make plays.  I know its odd to say this about a 6th rounder (some had him projected as a 2nd-3rd rounder).  Brugler had him rated as the 6th best receiver in the draft.  Harmon to me displays some traits i'd love to see more in Doctson.  it might not translate from to college to the pros for Harmon -- like I said there is a high bust rate with receivers.  But if Harmon plays like he did in college and his game translates, I think he ultimately has a shot to beat Doctson as the X receiver over time.  At the very least it should be fun to see the competition for the starting spot.  I'd expect Doctson to be the starter but Harmon over time might usurp him. 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with most of this, but especially the bold. He needs to take a step - a major step in production. This will be his 3rd QB in 3 seasons, after missing virtual his entire 1st season due to injury. I also agree he took a big step forward in blocking last year. Not directed at you or saying you are implying otherwise - ultimately he is not paid to be a great blocker first, he is paid to catch passes. 

 

As you mentioned, at least some of the lack of production has been who his QBs have been. He is not, was not a guy who is going to routinely get wide open. What he can do is get open enough and then go get the ball. Kirk did not like throwing into windows after becoming starter for fear of throwing picks. I get that and don't totally disagree. But I think he misses some opportunities to let guys go get the ball. In fairness Docston dropped a few balls he probably should have caught - but he also caught several he had no business catching. Alex just never throws a contested ball. That's his magic is he doesn't throw the ball away but he also misses big play opportunities. 

 

It will be interesting to see who is throwing him the ball and if they give him more chances to battle for the ball. But I do agree - either way, this is it. Either he takes step to at least being a solid #2 or better, or it's time to move on. 

 

Take the 5th yr option and provided he doesn't get injured, release him if he does not produce. I believe his opportunity is a small window this year. They can't risk him getting injured if he is not going to produce. My guess is if he makes it through training camp as a starter, he will have 4 to 6 weeks to produce. If he does, then you keep him in. If not, let the others guys have a chance and put him on the bench so as not to risk injury. 

 

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

I agree with most of this, but especially the bold. He needs to take a step - a major step in production. This will be his 3rd QB in 3 seasons, after missing virtual his entire 1st season due to injury. I also agree he took a big step forward in blocking last year. Not directed at you or saying you are implying otherwise - ultimately he is not paid to be a great blocker first, he is paid to catch passes. 

 

 

Sure, I agree.  I mentioned blocking though for 2 reasons.  Crowder and Richardson aren't good blockers.  Crowder now is gone obviously.   But IMO having poor blocking receivers along with poor blocking tight ends doesn't help the running game.  Doctson along with McLaurin and Harmon are all good blockers and that's a good thing.  

 

With the Doctson though he has the reputation for being quiet and some say he can play soft.  He didn't play soft last year so I think that was an improvement.  Part of the reason why I liked watching Harmon predraft is this dude plays with the type of fire that Doctson seems to be missing. 

 

21 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

As you mentioned, at least some of the lack of production has been who his QBs have been. He is not, was not a guy who is going to routinely get wide open. What he can do is get open enough and then go get the ball. Kirk did not like throwing into windows after becoming starter for fear of throwing picks. I get that and don't totally disagree. But I think he misses some opportunities to let guys go get the ball. In fairness Docston dropped a few balls he probably should have caught - but he also caught several he had no business catching. Alex just never throws a contested ball. That's his magic is he doesn't throw the ball away but he also misses big play opportunities. 

 

 

Agree.  Kirk was conservative.  And Alex was mega conservative.  Not good for a guy like Doctson.  I think Keenum is bolder.   As for Doctson, too bad he didn't get Rosen.  I wasn't in love with Rosen personally but if you want a guy who would push the envelope it would be him.  He doesn't hesitate to throw a ball into traffic for better or worse. 

 

21 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

It will be interesting to see who is throwing him the ball and if they give him more chances to battle for the ball. But I do agree - either way, this is it. Either he takes step to at least being a solid #2 or better, or it's time to move on. 

 

 

I don't want to jinx Harmon.  And I know it sounds crazy to tout Harmon who is a 6th rounder let alone the high bust rate for college receivers coming into the NFL.  But I'll go a little nuts anyway.  :ols:   When I watched receivers predraft ironically there were two guys that made me think of Doctson stylistically -- Arcega-Whitside and Harmon.  They are about being physical and making contested catches.  They both have sticky hands like Doctson.  I think I liked Doctson's ability to high point balls and make acrobatic catches better.   But Arcega and Harmon to me looked more physical (especially Harmon) and were better at separating. 

 

I was a Doctson guy before that draft.  But I've tried to take two lessons from that, one is I now pay attention when I can to a player's personality.  I didn't watch any Doctson interviews.  And I am not saying you can't be quiet-shy and be a good player.  See Art Monk.  But everything being equal, I don't as much like a guy who in theory is a 50-50 contested ball guy -- who comes off timid personality wise.  I don't think he's a timid player but I also don't think he's a Garcon type either who comes off like he'd kill for the ball.   My biggest mistake with Doctson in retrospect is diving too much into his stats and watching highlights versus full games.   Since that draft, I try to dive much deeper than that.   

 

Harmon is 4.6 and Docton is 4.5 but Harmon to me looks faster on the field than his 4.6 time and Doctson looks slower than his 4.5.  Also Harmon gets open and beats press coverage.  And he plays with a ferocity that I wish I saw from Doctson.  It's not that i need every receiver to play with a Garcon like attitude but it feels like it helps when you are a receiver that is about physicality.  If you are a 50-50 contested catch guy, physicality comes with it.

 

So that's my long winded way of saying I do put some value for Doctson becoming a better blocker.  I'd like to see more physicality out of him.    Cooley liked to mock Doctson a year before for shying away from catching the ball up the middle if a safety was bearing down on him.  I didn't hear that so much last year.  So I think he has a chance still.  I am not swearing by him but I'df give him one more shot -- one more season.  And it wouldn't shock me if Harmon overtakes him eventually at the X spot.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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You guys make a lot of good points about Doctson, but I am officially over him.  Last year was the last straw for me.  Not enough performance out of a first round pick.  I agree that conservative quarterbacking might have been a reason that he hasn't performed but it's not like he's done a great job at anything else.  If he's the guy that can high point a ball and win 50-50s, he needs to show that he can.  I understand options to do that are limited with Smith and Cousins but Doctson didn't make either one of them a believer that they should try that throw.  I keep coming back to the Chiefs game a couple years ago where he made an almost beautiful catch that would have won it for us on a high ball in the back of the endzone but couldn't come down with it.  

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Posted (edited)
On 4/30/2019 at 9:12 AM, Spaceman Spiff said:

You guys make a lot of good points about Doctson, but I am officially over him.  Last year was the last straw for me.  Not enough performance out of a first round pick.  I agree that conservative quarterbacking might have been a reason that he hasn't performed but it's not like he's done a great job at anything else.  If he's the guy that can high point a ball and win 50-50s, he needs to show that he can.  I understand options to do that are limited with Smith and Cousins but Doctson didn't make either one of them a believer that they should try that throw.  I keep coming back to the Chiefs game a couple years ago where he made an almost beautiful catch that would have won it for us on a high ball in the back of the endzone but couldn't come down with it.  

 

But that misses the point that they did not do for any WR. Which WR did Cousins throw those type of passes? The only player he went to deep very often was Jackson, but only when he was wide open and even then he over threw him a lot. 

 

And with all due respect, it just makes no sense to define a player by one play - yet that's what Redskins fans, and fans in general decide, but only with negative plays (we will ignore the face-masking as he is coming down, well maybe not). The next time he had a chance he makes the catch at Seattle - a ridiculous catch of a ball horribly thrown that had no business being caught. Yet everyone is willing to say, that's just one catch but then refers to the KC drop as his defining moment. Neither in isolation should be considered his defining moment. 

 

And I disagree he has shown nothing else.  The last two posts chronicled his great improvement in blocking - while not his primary responsibility is still an important part of being a WR in the NFL. 

 

Some numbers on Josh last year to illustrate he is not getting targeted (admittedly this is part design of the offense):

Targets - Tied for second but with just 78 targets or 5/gm

Drops - 3 in 78 targets - Reed had 3 in 84 targets - Thompson had 5 in just 55 targets - Crowder had 4 in 49 targets, Floyd had 4 in 24 targets - BTW: The best? Richardson 0 in 34 targets - Honorable mention goes to Mo Harris 1 in 47 targets.  

 

Point is he was not getting many targets. His lack of catches were not due to an inordinate amount of drops either. Here is a good one: 28% of his targets came in the 3 games Colt McCoy played - including getting 10 targets in the dallast game - the only one Colt started and finished and he responded with 6 catches. He also had 12 of his 44 catches in that 3 gm span or 27% of his catches in 3 games. 

 

I am not trying to say he has done great. And I need to see a big improvement this year to stay with him. But there is more to this than he just has no heart or is lazy (not saying you say that but the reason for my original post to someone else.) More importantly you can't catch balls not thrown to you. Let's see if they have a QB now who will let him go get balls. It's a big year for him and the team at this point. 

 

If you want to remember this: 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000855822/Kirk-Cousins-nearly-throws-go-ahead-TD-but-Josh-Doctson-can-t-hang-on

 

 

Lets also remember these: 

 

 

 

Edited by goskins10
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2 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

But that misses the point that they did not do for any QB. Which QB did Cousins throw those type of passes? The only player he went to deep very often was Jackson, but only when he was wide open and even then he over threw him a lot. 

 

And with all due respect, it just makes no sense to define a player by one play - yet that's what Redskins fans, and fans in general decide, but only with negative plays (we will ignore the face-masking as he is coming down, well maybe not). The next time he had a chance he makes the catch at Seattle - a ridiculous catch of a ball horribly thrown that had no business being caught. Yet everyone is willing to say, that's just one catch but then refers to the KC drop as his defining moment. Neither in isolation should be considered his defining moment. 

 

And I disagree he has shown nothing else.  The last two posts chronicled his great improvement in blocking - while not his primary responsibility is still an important part of being a WR in the NFL. 

 

Some numbers on Josh last year to illustrate he is not getting targeted (admittedly this is part design of the offense):

Targets - Tied for second but with just 78 targets or 5/gm

Drops - 3 in 78 targets - Reed had 3 in 84 targets - Thompson had 5 in just 55 targets - Crowder had 4 in 49 targets, Floyd had 4 in 24 targets - BTW: The best? Richardson 0 in 34 targets - Honorable mention goes to Mo Harris 1 in 47 targets.  

 

Point is he was not getting many targets. His lack of catches were not due to an inordinate amount of drops either. Here is a good one: 28% of his targets came in the 3 games Colt McCoy played - including getting 10 targets in the dallast game - the only one Colt started and finished and he responded with 6 catches. He also had 12 of his 44 catches in that 3 gm span or 27% of his catches in 3 games. 

 

I am not trying to say he has done great. And I need to see a big improvement this year to stay with him. But there is more to this than he just has no heart or is lazy (not saying you say that but the reason for my original post to someone else.) More importantly you can't catch balls not thrown to you. Let's see if they have a QB now who will let him go get balls. It's a big year for him and the team at this point. 

 

If you want to remember this: 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000855822/Kirk-Cousins-nearly-throws-go-ahead-TD-but-Josh-Doctson-can-t-hang-on

 

 

Lets also remember these: 

 

 

 

 

Hey man, I agree.  He wasn't getting targeted last year, at least not enough.  We all know that Alex Smith wasn't slinging the ball around but that's a different conversation for a different time.  I am hoping that whoever is throwing to him this year gives him more opportunities to shine.  

 

In regards to defining him by one play, I think it goes a bit deeper than that...when you're billed as a guy who's really good at getting those balls, you gotta come down with it in a clutch situation.  He certainly did in the Seahawks game.  The only reason why we continue to talk about him is that he's flashed over the years.  Every once in awhile he gives you a game to dream on, or a catch like the ones you posted to make you think...damn, he was worth the pick.  

 

Yes, he's become a better blocker, that's good to see.  He also wouldn't be the first player ever to put up a big season in a contract year so there's that, too.  I don't disagree with you that there are some things to like, however there's just not enough there for me to like to say that he's got an iron clad lock for being our #1 receiver, other than the fact that he's been here the longest.

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3 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Hey man, I agree.  He wasn't getting targeted last year, at least not enough.  We all know that Alex Smith wasn't slinging the ball around but that's a different conversation for a different time.  I am hoping that whoever is throwing to him this year gives him more opportunities to shine.  

 

In regards to defining him by one play, I think it goes a bit deeper than that...when you're billed as a guy who's really good at getting those balls, you gotta come down with it in a clutch situation.  He certainly did in the Seahawks game.  The only reason why we continue to talk about him is that he's flashed over the years.  Every once in awhile he gives you a game to dream on, or a catch like the ones you posted to make you think...damn, he was worth the pick.  

 

Yes, he's become a better blocker, that's good to see.  He also wouldn't be the first player ever to put up a big season in a contract year so there's that, too.  I don't disagree with you that there are some things to like, however there's just not enough there for me to like to say that he's got an iron clad lock for being our #1 receiver, other than the fact that he's been here the longest.

 

And I agree with this completely. If he gets beat out in TC, or someone else emerges as the #1, #2 or whatever, then so be it. I think he has done enough to get another chance but not enough to be guaranteed anything but a chance. Further, if he comes into camp thinking he has earned the right to the #1, then he will fail and not be with the team after next year. 

 

But knowing what I know about him he will come in expecting nothing more than to compete. Let the best players win and play. If he is the best then he should play If he is not, then he should sit. 

 

If I were the Skins I would pick up his 5th year option. If he takes that next step, great! Then you have control over his contract. But if he is not progressing and taking a major role then I would sit him with the intention of releasing him at years end. They can't do that if he is injured. Sounds kind of cold but it's a business. You either produce or you are out. 

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6 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

And I agree with this completely. If he gets beat out in TC, or someone else emerges as the #1, #2 or whatever, then so be it. I think he has done enough to get another chance but not enough to be guaranteed anything but a chance. Further, if he comes into camp thinking he has earned the right to the #1, then he will fail and not be with the team after next year. 

 

But knowing what I know about him he will come in expecting nothing more than to compete. Let the best players win and play. If he is the best then he should play If he is not, then he should sit. 

 

If I were the Skins I would pick up his 5th year option. If he takes that next step, great! Then you have control over his contract. But if he is not progressing and taking a major role then I would sit him with the intention of releasing him at years end. They can't do that if he is injured. Sounds kind of cold but it's a business. You either produce or you are out. 

 

I would too, for sure.  I do like that he picked up his blocking.  And it's not like we've got a great group of receivers already on the roster.  In other words, lack of better options.

 

That said, I hope he's worked his ass off this offseason and comes in thinking he's earned the right to be #1.   I want to see him step up and make it known that it's his spot.  You're right, if he comes in ****y and hasn't put the work in then he will fail.  

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I would too, for sure.  I do like that he picked up his blocking.  And it's not like we've got a great group of receivers already on the roster.  In other words, lack of better options.

 

That said, I hope he's worked his ass off this offseason and comes in thinking he's earned the right to be #1.   I want to see him step up and make it known that it's his spot.  You're right, if he comes in ****y and hasn't put the work in then he will fail.  

 

 

 

While I agree with the results - I do want to make one major distinction, and it is the thrust of my initial comments. I believe based on the research I have done on him and what others have said, I know the young man well enough to know he is and has been working his ass off. He is a tireless worker. Hard work is just not always good enough. His game may just not translate. My point is that a lack of production is not always an indication that he is not trying hard enough. That's an important distinction to me. 

 

Not trying to bring up bad memories, but Haynesworth could have been better if worked harder. He just had the size and athleticism to be great. But he was ****ing lazy. But there are 1000's of guys who are just not good enough and will not be no matter how hard they work. 

 

While working hard will help, it's not the only driver of production. I honestly believe he is and has been working as hard as anyone else. In the end he may just be good enough. 

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5 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 I keep coming back to the Chiefs game a couple years ago where he made an almost beautiful catch that would have won it for us on a high ball in the back of the endzone but couldn't come down with it.  

Man I always thought that Doctson got a really bad rap for that play. That was a very difficult play to make.

 

I understand your frustration with Doctson.. I was ready to cut him a while ago, but some players need favorable conditions to shine, to reestablish their college dominance after getting a gut check in the pros. The injuries and the qb play he has had have not been beneficial to him in this regard. 

 

I believe keenum will sling it and give Doctson consistent opportunities to make a play on the ball, and this is what Doctson needs to buildup his aggression and playstyle. 

 

We will know by the bye week. If he doesn't make a giant leap, Harmon will be starting in his place. 

 

 

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The beauty about receivers is even if Doc doesn’t or never lives up to his first round expectation, that doesn’t mean he won’t be a productive part of the team going forward. The moment you stop thinking of him as a 1 WR and instead as a very good 3 then you accept him. He could very well turn into what Crabtree was in Oakland.

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24 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

The beauty about receivers is even if Doc doesn’t or never lives up to his first round expectation, that doesn’t mean he won’t be a productive part of the team going forward. The moment you stop thinking of him as a 1 WR and instead as a very good 3 then you accept him. He could very well turn into what Crabtree was in Oakland.

But he's not a very good 3 or 4 or even 5 for that matter. The reality is Doctson has had a inury plagued professional career who is simply taking up a roster spot for a younger healthier HUNGRIER player. #18 has had more than enough time to prove himself. Its time to move on.

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12 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

But he's not a very good 3 or 4 or even 5 for that matter. The reality is Doctson has had a inury plagued professional career who is simply taking up a roster spot for a younger healthier HUNGRIER player. #18 has had more than enough time to prove himself. Its time to move on.

Injured when? He missed his rookie year, he's missed only 1 game since.

 

How is he not as hungry? He hasn't produced enough to justify a large contract, but his lack of production isn't from a lack of hunger. Or were Ryan Grant and James Thrash not hungry enough? If hunger alone decided a player's success, the UDFAs would reign as kings.

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Posted (edited)
On 10/16/2018 at 1:32 AM, petey hodge said:

OK, I've got this chronic "sinking" feeling about Josh Doctson.

 

First I went to search for "the Curious Case of Josh Doctson" thread and I could not find it.

What I found instead were 5 pages of general malaise, with thread titles ranging from "nagging injuries" to coaches "swearing that this will be The Year."

 

For those of you who attend the games, this one's for you.  If I were in the stadium, I would lock on to what #18 is doing during the entire game.  On TV, he just doesnt appear to have any fire in the belly.  He's got this "aw shucks" demeanor.  This shapes my negative feeling for him in addition to his lack of production in the passing game.

 

What have you seen that the cameras dont show?

 

 

When I watch Doctson tape I have to divide it up into sections because of the gaps in time. 

Basically I call his year one a Redshirt Freshman as he didn't play much, only 2 games. For that, his first year is 2017 and he played all 16 games and started 14.  Stat line shows a NFL Rookie WR year 1 with 78 targets and 35 catches which equals 45%.  Yards were modest for those 35 receptions, averaging 14.3 ypc and produced 6 TDs.  The tape shows that he played TIMID.  Now, in his true year 2, 2018, he played in 15 games, had the same amount of targets 78 and had 44 receptions for 56.4% completion percentage.  This was a slight up tick and considering the QB situation last year, it was a slight improvement.  He only managed 2 TDs but I have to relate that to the QBs.  When you watch his tape is where you can see the difference as he was no longer playing that TIMID style and actually progressed to playing more aggressive. 

Sum thus far shows that Josh Doctson was immature coming out of college.  His play has increased in from year one to year two, however he hasn't been able to breakout of his shell yet.  This made me curious, because I can see slight progress and for all intent and purpose we should look at his historical progress.  Now we go to his college stats...

Here they are:

What we can see here is that he didn't breakout until his 3rd year in college.

    Receiving Rushing Scrimmage
Year School Conf Class Pos G Rec Yds Avg TD Att Yds Avg TD Plays Yds Avg TD
Career Overall         214 3177 14.8 34 2 7 3.5 0 216 3184 14.7 34
  Wyoming         35 393 11.2 5         35 393 11.2 5
  Texas Christian         179 2784 15.6 29 2 7 3.5 0 181 2791 15.4

29

*2011 Wyoming MWC FR WR 12 35 393 11.2 5         35 393 11.2 5
2013 Texas Christian Big 12 SO WR 10 36 440 12.2 4 0 0   0 36 440 12.2 4
*2014 Texas Christian Big 12 JR WR 13 65 1018 15.7 11 0 0   0 65 1018 15.7 11
*2015 Texas Christian Big 12 SR WR 10 78 1326 17.0 14 2 7 3.5 0 80 1333 16.7 14
Edited by TheShredder

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

#18 has had more than enough time to prove himself. Its time to move on.

Clearly that is not the fact.

It's well documented that NFL WRs take 2-3 years of time to develop.  Doctson basically Redshirted his rookie year only playing 2 games. His historical stats show that he made his leap in college in year 3.  For Doctson, that's this year. If he doesn't breakout this year then he's a JAG.  There's no evidence that it's time to move on from #18 and to do so would be a mistake.

If the Skins don't pick up Doctson's 5th year option by May 3rd it could be a big mistake.

Edited by TheShredder

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4 hours ago, NickyJ said:

Injured when? He missed his rookie year, he's missed only 1 game since.

 

How is he not as hungry? He hasn't produced enough to justify a large contract, but his lack of production isn't from a lack of hunger. Or were Ryan Grant and James Thrash not hungry enough? If hunger alone decided a player's success, the UDFAs would reign as kings.

You know what you are right, He has been so non existent on the field i honestly thought he missed games the past 2 seasons with injury when in fact he was just so non productive i didn't even know he was on the field, Although I'll give him a pass for everything post Alex Smith's injury. I don't think even Jerry Rice in his prime could have shined with our lineup of duds under center.

 

  As far as the hunger and passion i just don't see it. I get not every player in the NFL is going to be a animated cheerleader dabbing after each and every first down but every time i see doctson make or not make a play he just looks flat. Jim Zorn would have loved this guy , he clearly doesn't get very high on the highs or low on the lows. Anyway here is toast to Doctsons 4th season as a pro, May our 1st round WR prosper and break 600 yards receiving for the first time in his career

 

                                                                                                              giphy.gif

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6 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Anyway here is toast to Doctsons 4th season as a pro

He's been here for 3 seasons but was basically a redshirt rookie not being able to practice and only limpy play for 2 games in 2016.  So he's 2 full NFL seasons and if he's going to breakout it would be this year or he's a JAG.  Not sure how much of a gamble he is to not take his 5th year option which has to be exercised by May 3rd.  His college stats show he's in line for a breakout.  It will be quiet costly if he produces and they don't.  There's no risk for the team unless he gets hurt as they can cut him before the league year next year if he doesn't breakout. 

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/04/fifth-year-option-nfl

Fifth-year options are guaranteed for injury only between May 3 and the start of the following league year. As such, they’re not entirely risk-free, but as long as the player remains healthy, a team could exercise his fifth-year option, then cut him before his option year gets underway without being on the hook for his salary. When the league year begins, the player’s fifth-year salary becomes guaranteed for skill and cap purposes, as well as injury.

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On 4/29/2019 at 10:26 AM, Darc Requiem said:

 

If you cut him before the league year there is no dead money. 5th year options are only guaranteed for injury.

May 2 is the deadline for signing 5th year options. Heard any rumors out of Redskins Park regarding this?

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Posted (edited)

The Redskins aren't picking up his 5th year option according to profootballtalk. I for one am fine with this. The guy has been a bust to this point. 

Edited by desertbeagle85

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It makes zero sense to pick up his option, especially with his injury history and the fact that he overall underperformed. This could play out in several ways:

1. he is underwhelming again and gets let go at the end of the season. he will hang around the nfl as a #2/ #3 wr and Skins could possibly get a 6th rd comp pick back as he signs a 2-5mil deal somewhere else.

2. He finally steps up and plays at a high level

     a. Skins sign him to LTD - and he will still most likely average less than 10mil/ year

     b. Another team signs him to LTD - skins get a 3rd round comp pick back

 

Personally i think he is much more likely to be option 1 than 2, so not picking up the option is the only smart move.

 

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On 4/30/2019 at 3:17 PM, PartyPosse said:

The beauty about receivers is even if Doc doesn’t or never lives up to his first round expectation, that doesn’t mean he won’t be a productive part of the team going forward. The moment you stop thinking of him as a 1 WR and instead as a very good 3 then you accept him. He could very well turn into what Crabtree was in Oakland.

 

That's the thought I revert to, sometimes.

Does it have to be 'all or nothing' with a 1st round pick ?

He might be a valuable "specialist" lower on the depth chart, for example, to bring in on red zone situations.

It just depends on if he agrees to renew his contract to a salary that is comparable to that role.

If he doesn't, then we get a comp pick.

Am I missing something, or is there some reason that scenario can't happen ?

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On 4/29/2019 at 7:07 AM, JSSkinz said:

I think you always do the 5th year just in case.  If he has a big year you know we're not giving him a long term deal so having that 5th year is helpful for a team looking for answers at WR.

 

If we find that our new guys coming in along with P Rich and Quinn are formidable and Josh has the same Josh type year then you just cut him.

 

I don't see a downside to using this option.

There are a couple of advantages to not using the option.   1st you could sign him as a Free Agent for a contract worth quite a bit less if he performs ok and you want to keep him but not for 10 million a year or more. 2d If he signs elsewhere he goes into the comp pick equation (Which he wouldn't if you took the option and cut him).

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Posted (edited)

I just know he looked good last season when Colt was in there and was catching routes Alex wasn't even throwing his direction. And when Alex did hit him, he had the defender draped all over him which had be question his ability to get separation on anyone. I mean he has had moments where he can look like Randy Moss leaping over defenders and will dive to make difficult catches but we don't see enough of it. Course we dont get to see game film like they do and there could have been plenty of times he did get open and the ball wasn't there, especially with Alex in there..If we let him go, and Prich doesn't work out we won't have a single WR over the age of 25..

 

Check out this highlight reel. What's he doing with more highlights with JJ and Colt in 6 games than he did with Alex in 10??.. I'm not sure I wanna put most of the blame on his lack of production on his shoulders..

 

 

Edited by Playaction2Sanders

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Well, looks like we like our WR options we got in the draft and UDFA.  

That's fine if you're willing to wait until 2020-2021 for them to translate into a Pro.  It takes 2 full years as the norm for NFL WRs to breakout. That's a statistical fact, year on year, league wide.  From time to time you'll get a top WR that will have 1 good season in year 2, but just like Antonio Brown, he dropped off in year 3 before his true breakout.  That's why it makes no sense to not pick up his 5th year option.  It costs you nothing and you can cut him if he doesn't breakout this year.  Dumb move.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/05/01/washington-passes-on-josh-doctsons-option/

Should he breakout this year, like he did in college, some other team will pay him. I think the Skins have the WR formula backwards and expect to get a #1 WR to come in and produce.  This just isn't how it works.

Edited by TheShredder

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