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247Sports: Josh Norman benched during Redskins' blowout loss

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And no one on this team remotely has the mean streak or talent that wilber marshall had. From Allen right on down to manusky and gruden to the players. No men. No leadership. A team of choir boys is what Allen wants. Good luck with that. I was proud of JA for raising hell on the side-line monday. Even though he didn’t bother brees much. Or stop the run when it counted.

Edited by wolfsire

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I am not buying Norman is a bad corner. I heard XM fantasy guys tearing into him today, yet openly admit he is only facing 3.5 targets per game. And then proceeded to say Thomas abused him ?‍♂️. Yeah, maybe on Twitter and after the whistle. Why aren't OCs targeting an easy completion / perfect passer rating play call option?  We aren't facing Joe Gibbs 2 every week.

 

I think some fans are still bent over seeing Hilton beat him in a footrace across the field. Him jumping a screen was the icing on the cake it seems. Anything that happens in a win is largely ignored (unless its a bye week), and anything that happens in a loss can seemingly only be overcome by our team making the playoffs.

 

Edited by RandyHolt
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Perhaps there is something to DHall’s comments.  Looks like Josh spent the bye week in LA shooting a new show that “JNO productions” is helping produce.  Apparently JNO productions is his “next step” per the piece I just watched. A show for athletes to get back at folks who troll them.

 

I realize plenty of players spend time doing things other than football during the bye week but it’s not a good look when you make JV mistakes the following game. Where it gets murky is does he realize nobody will care about him if he sucks on the field?

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4 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I am not buying Norman is a bad corner. I heard XM fantasy guys tearing into him today, yet openly admit he is only facing 3.5 targets per game. And then proceeded to say Thomas abused him ?‍♂️. Yeah, maybe on Twitter and after the whistle. Why aren't OCs targeting an easy completion / perfect passer rating play call option?  We aren't facing Joe Gibbs 2 every week.

 

I think some fans are still bent over seeing Hilton beat him in a footrace across the field. Him jumping a screen was the icing on the cake it seems. Anything that happens in a win is largely ignored (unless its a bye week), and anything that happens in a loss can seemingly only be overcome by our team making the playoffs.

 

 

I don't think it's about him being 'bad'.  It's more about him not playing up to expectations and his salary. 

 

The more I think about it, the more I become convinced that he was more of a beneficiary of a monster Panthers front 7 rather than a top 3 corner.  Scheme differences are also a valid point that can explain the difference between what he's done here, and what he did in Carolina.  But for what we expected him to be, he should be able to be one of the best players on the field in any scheme.  And it isn't like he's getting better as time goes on:

 

Screen-Shot-2018-10-11-at-11.30.01.png

 

PFF: Pro NFL Week 6 Fox Panthers at Redskins Preview

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14 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Deion Sanders

Bruce Smith

Jason Taylor 

Haynesworth

Josh Norman

 

I would say that he fits in with the two guys from 2000 the best. 

 

He played well here (debatable if he played up to his contract, but he played well) in his first season. He regressed last year to be basically just OK. This year (at least so far) he has been bad. Taylor and Haynesworth were clearly bad signings from the start. At least Smith and Sanders contributed in a huge defensive improvement between 1999 and 2000. 

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There are suddenly lots of stats available to delve into this. Is our front 7 getting sufficient pressure this year?  I am not seeing it. If true, we all know DBs are going to fail with no pressure.  I assume he is taking on the top WR weekly, and certainly did vs Indy and NO.  He took on Luck, Brees, Rodgers, and Bradford... some damn good QBs in there.

 

Make no mistake though, 2018 is a small sample size with 4 games and a PALTRY 3.5 targets per game to grade him on.  I actually think targets is a more telling stat than QBR. Is that totally wrong?  Maybe one day QBR will be score adjusted, say in a blowout (GB) he is not going to play as tight. Many a QB pad the crap out of their QBR in garbage time, now at the expense of corners since QBR seems to be the way to grade a corner of late....

 

I think a pass defended requires a DB gets his hand on a ball.  Talk about an archaic stat if true.  A blanket coverage overthrow should be a pass defended, as should a QB forced into his next progression (.5). Why not?

Edited by RandyHolt

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50 minutes ago, megared said:

 

I don't think it's about him being 'bad'.  It's more about him not playing up to expectations and his salary. 

 

The more I think about it, the more I become convinced that he was more of a beneficiary of a monster Panthers front 7 rather than a top 3 corner.  Scheme differences are also a valid point that can explain the difference between what he's done here, and what he did in Carolina.  But for what we expected him to be, he should be able to be one of the best players on the field in any scheme.  And it isn't like he's getting better as time goes on:

 

I’m not sure that’s the case because he was actually really good his first year, and that with a less talented front 7 in front of him.  Personally,  I think he’s lost a step due to injury or age.

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20 minutes ago, mojo said:

I’m not sure that’s the case because he was actually really good his first year, and that with a less talented front 7 in front of him.  Personally,  I think he’s lost a step due to injury or age.

 

Good point. Father time slowly creeps in.  And he is pretty physical and a willing run stopper. I hope those are factored into a CBs grades, as well as ability to shed blocks. 

 

Bah getting old sucks.  The golden years my ass.

Edited by RandyHolt

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27 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

There are suddenly lots of stats available to delve into this. Is our front 7 getting sufficient pressure this year?  I am not seeing it. If true, we all know DBs are going to fail with no pressure.  I assume he is taking on the top WR weekly, and certainly did vs Indy and NO.  He took on Luck, Brees, Rodgers, and Bradford... some damn good QBs in there.

 

According to PFF, we have the 15th ranked pass rush.  So middle of the road (although it didn't seem that way vs New Orleans).  

 

I found some DVOA values which now have us ranked at #23, #10 against the pass and #30 against the rush.  There's a further breakdown of DVOA versus individual receivers, but since Norman doesn't travel, I don't think it's necessarily useful.  There's also DVOA by pass direction, which would probably mean more since Norman is usually lined up on the left hand side of the formation.  You can view for yourself:

 

Football Outsiders: 2018 Team Defense

 

Again, I'm not arguing the guy is useless, rather his play hasn't been up to expectations.  And the free lancing is just unacceptable. Regardless of how good he *can* be, when he's focused, he can't be the primary reason we give up long TDs two weeks in a row.

 

We need him to be in coverage, not bearing down on short routes and trusting our safeties will make a play.  

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5 minutes ago, megared said:

We need him to be in coverage, not bearing down on short routes and trusting our safeties will make a play.  

 

That's a point I didn't even think about. He was brought here for his ability to cover. So, when in doubt, err on the side of covering. Other guys on the D have demonstrated that they can tackle a pass catcher AFTER he catches the ball. 

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Listening to Kevin Sheehan's podcast today, he says that he was told from a "close source" that the reason for Norman's benching was that Norman was wearing headphones at halftime while the coaches were trying to talk to the team. He was asked to remove them and did not, at which point the headphones were removed for him, but the source wasn't sure by whom. The thought was that it could have been Gruden. Either way, that was what resulted in the benching, according to Sheehan. 

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Interesting story.  I wonder if its normal for random players to use headphones at HT in other locker rooms. We see players wearing them before games of course, but this fits the hollywood theme.

 

FWIW I have long believed the moles inside of Redskins park but only in part because the stuff that gets leaked is so random, I figured they largely are true. However, It remains too easy to say random things to reporters in return for presumed favors. 

 

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On 10/12/2018 at 4:52 PM, Dissident2 said:

Listening to Kevin Sheehan's podcast today, he says that he was told from a "close source" that the reason for Norman's benching was that Norman was wearing headphones at halftime while the coaches were trying to talk to the team. He was asked to remove them and did not, at which point the headphones were removed for him, but the source wasn't sure by whom. The thought was that it could have been Gruden. Either way, that was what resulted in the benching, according to Sheehan. 

 

If this is true, it shows the lack of concentration towards football.

 

It probably proves Hall right. That Norman is focused on being a celebrity (i.e. focused on himself). I mean, to go into the locker room at halftime, tune out everyone around you (including your head coach) put on headphones, and go into your own world, shows a complete lack of focus on the game.

 

Here is an article that goes into this:

 

https://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/13/josh-norman-benching-spat-jay-gruden/

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31 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

If this is true, it shows the lack of concentration towards football.

 

It probably proves Hall right. That Norman is focused on being a celebrity (i.e. focused on himself). I mean, to go into the locker room at halftime, tune out everyone around you (including your head coach) put on headphones, and go into your own world, shows a complete lack of focus on the game.

 

Here is an article that goes into this:

 

https://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/13/josh-norman-benching-spat-jay-gruden/

 

Yup, that story is well related, I just put a bunch of articles regarding it in BHRBN.

 

What was Michael Thomas saying? He bought headphones for Norman?

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1 hour ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

If this is true, it shows the lack of concentration towards football.

 

It probably proves Hall right. That Norman is focused on being a celebrity (i.e. focused on himself). I mean, to go into the locker room at halftime, tune out everyone around you (including your head coach) put on headphones, and go into your own world, shows a complete lack of focus on the game.

 

Here is an article that goes into this:

 

https://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/13/josh-norman-benching-spat-jay-gruden/

 

It's time to let him move on. Should not be a Redskin next season. It's likely they were going to do that anyway. But this should seal it. 

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So DeAngelo Hall goes on to say that Josh is not the most prepared. Is he lighting a fire, or is it true?

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The biggest issue right now with Norman is not that he can't cover, it's that he won't cover. He's not playing his assignments and not doing his job. It doesn't matter how good you are at covering receivers if you are not doing your job. If his job is to shadow the top receiver, then he needs to do that. If he job is to cover a certain area of the field in zone coverage so that the QB has to throw elsewhere, he needs to do that. All the comments about what he's focused on off the field, it doesn't matter if he does his job. As for the rumor about the headphones, I don't know if that's true but if it is, then good on the coaches for benching him. I hope this past week has lit a fire under him, because right now whether it's fact or perception, he's getting torched both on and off the field. If that perception remains, it's going to hurt his pockets when he is looking for his next job. 

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That was very imature and unprofessional of Norman..I read that he didn't hear coach telling him to take them off..I ain't buying that, I imagine it's policy to be front n center especially if you claim to be a leader.

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I mean...Michael Thomas is very good at this trash talk thing, I have to hand it to him. I spit out what I was drinking

 

 

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4 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

If this is true, it shows the lack of concentration towards football.

 

It probably proves Hall right. That Norman is focused on being a celebrity (i.e. focused on himself). I mean, to go into the locker room at halftime, tune out everyone around you (including your head coach) put on headphones, and go into your own world, shows a complete lack of focus on the game.

 

Here is an article that goes into this:

 

https://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/13/josh-norman-benching-spat-jay-gruden/

I've supported Norman through a lot of his struggles, but blowing off the coaches is unacceptable. If he can't cobble together a showing by the trade deadline, I'd look long and hard at any offers for him. Even if it hurts our backfield with nobody actually being better than Norman, they can't let a cancer like that grow during a season when the entire team is sitting on a razor edge.

Edited by NickyJ
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He's untradeable with his current contract and level of play.   Best scenario for us is,  he starts playing better and we cut ties after the season.   

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