Pathetic crowds at home opener

[Burgold]

13 minutes ago, RFK Lives said:

I remember watching as the Raiders and jaguars had to start tarping over seats to mask a disinterested fanbase and despite our *ahem* struggles, never, ever thought that would become the Redskins but here we are. 

The Jags at least are coming off an AFC Championship appearance and the Raiders are moving to a city that will fit their image and has a plan.  We however, are a rudderless ship.  No plan, no hope. 

The only thing I can say, at least the field looked in a good shape yesterday.  I cannot remember it looking in such good shape this late in the season for a long time.  That's how bad this has become, I am texting with my buds about field condition. 

It is odd. The Browns for decades and the Cubs for almost a century were hapless and pathetic, far worse than the 'skins have been over the last five years, yet they never lost their fan base. That's why I think it's more than about winning and losing. The team's PR bungles have poisoned the community too. The cheerleaders thing, signing rats like Albert Haynesworth, the constant nattering from within the team of Bruce turning against Kirk, Lafemina, Shanny, etc., the failures at FedEx field to make it fan friendly, etc.

 

It is possible to be a loveable losing team, a team that one can be proud of despite the rotten times. Somehow, between bumbling, and Shanahan's and Allen's bridge-burning the Redskins have just become a hard team to like. That said, many of our players are likable. There's really nothing to dislike about Allen, Kerrigan, Williams, and most of the "core" Redskins.

 

To bat around a Brucism... our losing "off the field" has poisoned game day.

[Renegade7]

I've heard the Cubs being called lovable losers, there's very little that lovable about this franchise right now.  It's more like Game of Thrones around here.

[Hooterman]

On 12/10/2018 at 11:44 PM, Stadium-Armory said:

People like to say "Dan is a fan". If he were really a fan of the team he would sell it. He's smart enough to know that he isn't good at producing a winning organization. A real fan would sell to someone who could restore the franchise. This guy is not a fan of anything but him self.

While I agree with the sentiment, it's real easy for us to say.  I'd say market value is much less than it was 5 years ago.  

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

It is odd. The Browns for decades and the Cubs for almost a century were hapless and pathetic, far worse than the 'skins have been over the last five years, yet they never lost their fan base. That's why I think it's more than about winning and losing. The team's PR bungles have poisoned the community too. The cheerleaders thing, signing rats like Albert Haynesworth, the constant nattering from within the team of Bruce turning against Kirk, Lafemina, Shanny, etc., the failures at FedEx field to make it fan friendly, etc.

 

It is possible to be a loveable losing team, a team that one can be proud of despite the rotten times. Somehow, between bumbling, and Shanahan's and Allen's bridge-burning the Redskins have just become a hard team to like. That said, many of our players are likable. There's really nothing to dislike about Allen, Kerrigan, Williams, and most of the "core" Redskins.

 

To bat around a Brucism... our losing "off the field" has poisoned game day.

 

And don't forget the nickname impact as well.  We've had a decade of commentary about how the nickname is derogatory.  That beats upon a fanbase as well and for sure contributes to the "hard to like" thought.  

[profusion]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

It is odd. The Browns for decades and the Cubs for almost a century were hapless and pathetic, far worse than the 'skins have been over the last five years, yet they never lost their fan base. That's why I think it's more than about winning and losing. The team's PR bungles have poisoned the community too. The cheerleaders thing, signing rats like Albert Haynesworth, the constant nattering from within the team of Bruce turning against Kirk, Lafemina, Shanny, etc., the failures at FedEx field to make it fan friendly, etc.

 

 

I think you've hit on something, here. It really is hard to love anything about the Redskins, right now, and it's been like this since the day Dan arrived.

 

The only counterpoint I would make is that DC is not nearly the level of sports town that Chicago and Cleveland are (or even Philadelphia). It's always seemed to me that those cities live and die with their teams in a way that DC never has, even when the Redskins were the talk of the town. The Browns ARE Cleveland. The Cubs and Bears ARE Chicago. Washington's never been quite like that. In some ways, that might be a good thing--perhaps it's not a great thing for a city's identity to be so closely tied to a bunch of millionaires playing a kid's game...

[KingGibbs]

if you go to FedEx as a Redskins fan you are part of the problem with the lack of culture change. Showing up at FedEx Field is not sending a message to Danny boy.

[Ghost of]

Imagine paying these idiots good money to be less than mediocre year after year.  STOP WATCHING. 

 

[Commander PK]

2 hours ago, Hooterman said:

And don't forget the nickname impact as well.  We've had a decade of commentary about how the nickname is derogatory.  That beats upon a fanbase as well and for sure contributes to the "hard to like" thought.  

 

All joking aside, I wonder sometimes if the fan base can be beaten down to the point we no longer care about a rebranding of the Redskins.  I think it's clear we are closer than we have ever been before to that day right now.

[Cooleyfan1993]

45 minutes ago, KingGibbs said:

if you go to FedEx as a Redskins fan you are part of the problem with the lack of culture change. Showing up at FedEx Field is not sending a message to Danny boy.

See, I don’t agree here (nothing wrong with that, we’re all entitled to our own opinions). My thoughts on that is: Why call out fans for being fans? And wanting to go see their favorite team play. Fans aren’t the ones making the personnel decisions, fans aren’t the ones that refuse to fire Bruce or jay. That’s on the owner. HE needs to make the changes. HE is the reason the organization sucks. Fans that want to go to the game? Not at all. We all choose to be fans in our own way, we shouldn’t be blaming each other for the **** that we call a team. You’re not part of the problem, just like everybody else in this board isn’t part of the problem. 

 

(Just my opinion). 

[Franklin60]

15 hours ago, hail2skins said:

I remember going to the game at the Linc in '05 when the Skins beat an 6-9 Eagles team ravaged by injury on the offensive side to make the playoffs. Granted, the Eagles had just made the Super Bowl the previous season (which rightfully should've bummed their fans out more at what happened in '05, to be honest). And there were a fair number of Skins fans in Philly that day, but we certainly did not even come close to taking over the Linc like Philly's fans did today. 

As an Eagles season ticket holder for nearly fifty years, I can confirm this. I don't ever remember a visiting fan presence at an Eagles game like there was that day. My memory is a bit hazy at this point, but I kind of remember it being something like 30% Redskins fans. Not quite "taking over the stadium" (in terms of numbers) but definitely loud, especially towards the end when they clinched it. 

[hail2skins]

7 minutes ago, Franklin60 said:

 I don't ever remember a visiting fan presence at an Eagles game like there was that day.

What about, say, when Pittsburgh has come to the Linc in 08 and 16? The '08 game against the Steelers at FedEx was probably the first one here that gained notoriety for opposing fans taking over the stadium. And people talk about how many people from Pittsburgh come to DC for jobs, but I bet there are still a lot of Steeler fans in the Philadelphia area too, and I bet they did not take over the Linc to nearly the extent that they have taken over FedEx when the Steelers have visited.

[FrFan]

15 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

See, I don’t agree here (nothing wrong with that, we’re all entitled to our own opinions). My thoughts on that is: Why call out fans for being fans? And wanting to go see their favorite team play. Fans aren’t the ones making the personnel decisions, fans aren’t the ones that refuse to fire Bruce or jay. That’s on the owner. HE needs to make the changes. HE is the reason the organization sucks. Fans that want to go to the game? Not at all. We all choose to be fans in our own way, we shouldn’t be blaming each other for the **** that we call a team. You’re not part of the problem, just like everybody else in this board isn’t part of the problem. 

 

(Just my opinion). 

I believe Fans can be a powerful force. If you keep on going to the stadium you'll keep on fulling his pockets. His history of very bad decisions and sticking his fingers in the cookies jar proves he will never ever learn nor make the changes until someone will force him to.  It can start with the fans, the medias will jump on the bandwagon (the other owners already despise him) and Maradell will notice and probably do something. He is negative publicity for this entire league. Imagine an almost empty stadium for each home games

[Franklin60]

26 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

What about, say, when Pittsburgh has come to the Linc in 08 and 16? The '08 game against the Steelers at FedEx was probably the first one here that gained notoriety for opposing fans taking over the stadium. And people talk about how many people from Pittsburgh come to DC for jobs, but I bet there are still a lot of Steeler fans in the Philadelphia area too, and I bet they did not take over the Linc to nearly the extent that they have taken over FedEx when the Steelers have visited.

Both of those Steelers games were in September, which is a naturally different environment. Early season optimism and all. Steelers fans definitely show up in Philadelphia, but they're always drowned out by the Eagles fans. Maybe 15% in both of those instances. Noticeable but nothing outrageous. 

 

Now, if it were a December game where the Eagles were eliminated, then yeah, I can see where it might be different.

[max21]

2 hours ago, KingGibbs said:

if you go to FedEx as a Redskins fan you are part of the problem with the lack of culture change. Showing up at FedEx Field is not sending a message to Danny boy.

I hate the be that guy, but I still have fun riding the Metro in with buddies drinking and BSing. It sucks that we are terrible but I still want to wear my jersey and watch football. The amount of Eagles fans yesterday was insane but **** them I still put on my burgundy and gold.

[hail2skins]

16 minutes ago, Franklin60 said:

Both of those Steelers games were in September, which is a naturally different environment. Early season optimism and all. Steelers fans definitely show up in Philadelphia, but they're always drowned out by the Eagles fans. Maybe 15% in both of those instances. Noticeable but nothing outrageous. 

 

Now, if it were a December game where the Eagles were eliminated, then yeah, I can see where it might be different.

Yeah, problem with the 08 game here was that the Skins were 6-2 going in, and the Steelers fans took over. The 16 game was the first of the season....I wasn't there, so not sure if the Steeler fan presence was as bad for that one.

 

But that goes back to the genesis of the thread. Seems like the Skins fanbase doesn't even give the team a chance and gives up on them before the season begins. There were several reasons behind this season, but 57K at the home opener was a terrible look.

 

So I guess you're still at the Linc? Nice stadium.  Eagles moved there from the Vet in the middle of the early 00s run, and have been moderately successful since (with the Lombardi last season, of course). Do you think the crowd at the Linc has become less hardcore since 2003, or has stayed about the same?

[skinfan2k]

17 minutes ago, max21 said:

I hate the be that guy, but I still have fun riding the Metro in with buddies drinking and BSing. It sucks that we are terrible but I still want to wear my jersey and watch football. The amount of Eagles fans yesterday was insane but **** them I still put on my burgundy and gold.

 

But you are bringing your own fun. We need to show this owner that this team and this stadium brings 0 value.  All value is brought by ourselves. 

[Wildbunny]

Some estimations add around 80% of Eagles fans at FedEx field for Week 17.

 

Attendance was: 63.188

Eagles fans: 50.550

Redskins fans: 12.638

 

(to remember, this year our average is around 60k)

 

This in front of Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs, and less than a week after firing LaFemina and his team.

 

Good job guys!

[Franklin60]

27 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

So I guess you're still at the Linc? Nice stadium.  Eagles moved there from the Vet in the middle of the early 00s run, and have been moderately successful since (with the Lombardi last season, of course). Do you think the crowd at the Linc has become less hardcore since 2003, or has stayed about the same?

Last season at the Vet was 2002. First season at the Linc was 2003. Hard to say regarding "hardcore". Probably about the same. The facility is nicer for sure. I think fans everywhere (I've gone to many Eagles road games over the years) have gotten a little nastier over the years. When I went to games at Giants Stadium in the nineties, I always felt like the the Giants fans were respectful. In recent years, that's not the case.

[hail2skins]

3 minutes ago, Franklin60 said:

When I went to games at Giants Stadium in the nineties, I always felt like the the Giants fans were respectful. In recent years, that's not the case.

Interesting. I only went to the old Giants Stadium once for a preseason game, but went to MetLife in week 3 of 2016 to see the Skins up there. Not very many Skins fans there that day. I sat in the club level, but overall I thought the crowd up there was almost too subdued for an early season matchup that wound up being pretty back and forth (Skins won at the end by picking off Eli). Most riled up I saw the Giants fans get was walking out and some clown started a J-E-T-S chant lol......

[Hooterman]

2 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

See, I don’t agree here (nothing wrong with that, we’re all entitled to our own opinions). My thoughts on that is: Why call out fans for being fans? And wanting to go see their favorite team play. Fans aren’t the ones making the personnel decisions, fans aren’t the ones that refuse to fire Bruce or jay. That’s on the owner. HE needs to make the changes. HE is the reason the organization sucks. Fans that want to go to the game? Not at all. We all choose to be fans in our own way, we shouldn’t be blaming each other for the **** that we call a team. You’re not part of the problem, just like everybody else in this board isn’t part of the problem. 

 

(Just my opinion). 

 

I agree with you on this.  

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, KingGibbs said:

if you go to FedEx as a Redskins fan you are part of the problem with the lack of culture change. Showing up at FedEx Field is not sending a message to Danny boy.

 

Wrong. 

 

If any lesson we learned from yesterday is that if we dont buy the seats, the other team will.  Dan gets paid regardless, need a new strategy. Anyone fired yet?  So no, this season with that game being the culmination changed nothing.

[Wildbunny]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Wrong. 

 

If any lesson we learned from yesterday is that if we dont buy the seats, the other team will.  Dan gets paid regardless, need a new strategy. Anyone fired yet?  So no, this season with that game being the culmination changed nothing.

Yup.

And I believe that's what Dan and Bruce didn't understood from LaFemina's plan.

[hail2skins]

6 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Yup.

And I believe that's what Dan and Bruce didn't understood from LaFemina's plan.

It would've been interesting to see if Lafemina's plan had borne fruit over time, but it was contributing to the bad optics in the short term.

 

Like I've said numerous times, I'd love to see the Skins prepare for building their new 60K stadium by reducing capacity even more at FedEx to meet current demand. And perhaps show love to STHs by actually reducing ticket prices.

 

Those might be pipe dreams. But going back to flooding the secondary market with broker tickets, thus making them cheaper, might not be bad. Sure, the cheaper tickets will be just as attractive for away fans as Redskins fans to buy, but I think the chance that more Skins fans will take advantage of the lower prices and start going again is a chance worth taking, IMO. 

[Franklin60]

3 hours ago, hail2skins said:

Interesting. I only went to the old Giants Stadium once for a preseason game, but went to MetLife in week 3 of 2016 to see the Skins up there. Not very many Skins fans there that day. I sat in the club level, but overall I thought the crowd up there was almost too subdued for an early season matchup that wound up being pretty back and forth (Skins won at the end by picking off Eli). Most riled up I saw the Giants fans get was walking out and some clown started a J-E-T-S chant lol......

I always liked the old Giants Stadium. Great sight lines. Atmosphere was good. Probably saw a dozen Eagles games up there over the years, most of them victorious. Went to MetLife for the first time last year and didn't care for it at all. Felt like the stands were about thirty yards further back from the field. Maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but dangit, our seats were pretty far back. The Giants were having a lousy season and the Eagles were 11-2 at the time, so there wasn't too much grief to be had. Getting out of the parking lot was ridiculous though, maybe even worse than FedEx, which is a known nightmare.

[hail2skins]

11 minutes ago, Franklin60 said:

 Getting out of the parking lot was ridiculous though, maybe even worse than FedEx, which is a known nightmare.

Sorry if you've had bad experiences with the traffic here. That has not been my experience at all.....I can count on one hand the number of times I've had a serious hassle getting out of FedEx, and I've been to well over 100 games there since the place opened. 

[dyst]

This is 100% more than just winning or losing. Snyder is hated. The name is controversial, the stadium is a joke. The PR blunders, free agency **** show and incompetency overall has just as much to do with it.