Racism in America.... Is it worse now after the 2016 election?

[Kilmer17]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

You can only enforce change with measurable results.  Feelings aren't against the law.

This isn't getting the oversight it needs to be enforced, numbers don't lie on this one in regards to simolar resources and credit but different races and gender.  It's too consistent to ignore.

That surprises me.  I’d be interested in seeing that. 

[Mr. Sinister]

4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I admit I don’t believe this still happens. I don’t see how it can.  Meaning race plays a factor in loan terms etc.  There are too many laws in place to prevent it 

 

 

 

I believe that you believe it.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Mr. Sinister

[Bang]

I think it's worse.
We definitely see a lot more racists unafraid to be right out in the open with it. 

And i also see that a LOT of people have gotten right out in the open against it. Not many people are standing on the sidelines of this particular issue.
So the lines are definitely being drawn overtly now among the people of this country, and in the end that should have a positive result.
I think Trump has made it worse because aside from his own overt racism,  he has empowered the worst.. the David Duke's and the mental cases that follow them...   a lot of them have taken it to mean it's open season. I think intimidation tactics have indeed gotten worse, and I think the fact the admin and it's propaganda feeds kindling into it day and night will continue to agitate and make it worse. 
In a hundred ways the GOP and it's propaganda are telling people how DANGEROUS POC are, hell, the president literally made up bull**** about white farmers being attacked in South Africa.. that **** has no other purpose except to make Clem and Lukey think that they're next, and it is calculated. (He can't say it happened in Arkansas.. too easily checked. All they really have to do is make sure Fox doesn't report that the South African president released a statement refuting the lie. Clem and Lukey'll never know.)
I've said it before here and i'll say it again.. if you are POC.. be very careful out there right now. The crazies are out and happy to be there.

I think since 2016 the institutional racism is worse,  because thanks to the administration blowing dog whistles all day, Trump's own history of it, and how he has put it into policy, used it to withhold aid in Puerto Rico, etc.., this signals the green light to  those that DO practice it via loans, housing.
They now feel as of they have an ally that will back them when they do it. Nothing is there to give them pause.
So yes, in that regard, I think Trump has made it much worse.

 

~Bang

Edited August 31, 2018 by Bang

[Burgold]

5 minutes ago, Bang said:

I think it's worse.


I think since 2016 the institutional racism is worse,  because thanks to the administration blowing dog whistles all day, 
They now feel as of they have an ally that will back them when they do it. Nothing is there to give them pause.
So yes, in that regard, I think Trump has made it worse.

 

~Bang

In the old days, the GOP put out dog whistles. Now, it's dog bugling.

 

There's no code, wink, or slyness to their language at all. Their hatred or acts of racial superiority are in your face. Hell, in multiple cases, actual Nazis are winning Republican primaries and others are losing solely because they aren't racist enough. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Well, you can flex more with two years to go and you don't have to worry about re-election.  IIRC Trayvon Martin happened in his first term, right? 

It was 2012 election year when the prosecutors wouldn’t even arrest Zimmerman. 

 

(Btw, if you all get a chance watch the Trayvon Martin docuseries on BET and Paramount app)

52 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

I directly know of someone who experienced this recently. Sad

This is so depressing. You do everything right and still get screwed over.

44 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

I believe that you believe it.

You have to realize that people who think like that are wholly indifferent to this stuff. To the point that they tell people that their injury is not real and is imagined.

Edited August 31, 2018 by BenningRoadSkin

[Warhead36]

I think in some respects it is worse. I mean, the fact that the freaking President is essentially a White Supremacist, or at the very least empowers them, is pretty damning.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

3 hours ago, brandymac27 said:

Look, I live in the south. I see it and hear it everyday. Not to mention all the crap that we all see and read about in the news. 

 

Example: just the other day I went to my best friend's ( who's black) daughter's ballet recital. I went with my friend and her daughter, and the parents and friends of parents were all supposed to get front row seats in the auditorium. Now my friend's daughter was 1 of 2 black girls dancing out of a class of 33. When we walked to our seats in the front row, we were berated by a lady who kept telling us we needed to sit in the back just like we should sit in the back of the bus that we rode in on ( even though we both drove, and my friend dives a very nice car). 

 

Point is, **** like this happens a LOT.

 

Please tell me you busted out your pimp hand on that ho.........

 

[Renegade7]

44 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

That surprises me.  I’d be interested in seeing that. 

I'm in middle of road trip so can't go back and forth, but you should be easily be able to find stuff on this if you want:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/06/29/bank-pay-106m-over-loan-discrimination-charges/86526572/
 

This is some harder numbers into arguing that's not just color but results if commonalities, but the graph at thw top is really hard to say it's just that considering our history:

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/10/blacks-and-hispanics-face-extra-challenges-in-getting-home-loans/
 

I'll be back later, see how this is going.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Renegade7

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, grego said:

 

you dont think peoples attitudes about race are different, they are just talking about it differently? did i get that right? if so, i would disagree. 

 

https://www.economist.com/democracy-in-america/2017/09/01/racist-behaviour-is-declining-in-america

.https://qz.com/983016/the-data-are-in-young-people-are-definitely-less-racist-than-old-people/

 

 

I think it's a complex situation with lots of moving parts. On the surface, I do believe that overall our culture as a whole has become more accepting of being a racially diverse society and more unaccepting of overt displays of bigotry and racism. And while that is a good thing as far as it goes, since it indicates a general overarching movement in the right direction, it can also be hazardous since it belies the undercurrents of bigotry and institutional racism that still persist but which nowadays tend to be hidden in oblique language and innocently professed motives.

 

As I said previously, I believe a result of this is that there are plenty of people who have beliefs and/or support policies and institutions which are rooted in racism and have racist outcomes but who don't actually believe they're racist. I think this line in one of the links you posted highlights it: "Long-term trends, meanwhile, suggest a decline in both professed racist views and racist acts". As @BenningRoadSkinsaid, you don't have to say the N word, call for lynchings, or burn crosses on the lawns of black peoples' homes to be racist or support racist policies.

 

Whether that actually changes what the true attitude and intention is, is something that certainly can be debated. I personally don't think it makes much of a difference at the end of the day, as the result is the same. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by mistertim

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The past few posts are very well thought out. Based on those posts, I have a question that I don't know the answer to but I'm intrigued to hear opinions on...

 

At what point does racism evolve into stereotyping? 

 

Edit: More context...

 

I keep reading people talk about the subtle type of racism...but once we get to a certain level, I don't see how you eradicate that completely and, more relevant to this thread, it stops becoming something that only impacts minorities. Everyone stereotypes someone within seconds of seeing or meeting them...and those stereotypes play into decisions. 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by TD_washingtonredskins

[Going Commando]

It's worse than it was a few years ago and it's getting worse.  Trump is leading the American Right backwards on this.

[zoony]

It all depends on how woke you are

[Kilmer17]

Yep.  This thread went exactly where I thought it would.  Too bad really.  It had a chance to be interesting.  

[Kosher Ham]

Threads like this create racism and in a strange way Trump has exposed closet racists. 

 

So interesting to read. 

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

Threads like this create racism

 

Huh?

 

and in a strange way Trump has exposed closet racists.

 

Agreed.

[Spaceman Spiff]

13 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

It's worse than it was a few years ago and it's getting worse.  Trump is leading the American Right backwards on this.

 

He's leading everyone backwards.  And I know someone's gonna go "both sideism!" but just calm down.

 

Sure, he's leading the American Right backwards, I don't disagree with that.  But there's also the hyper sensitive left that's going down too.

 

Did you see the NASCAR driver who lost a sponsorship because his DAD used the n-word decades ago?  No evidence of the driver having a racist bone in his body.  

 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nascar-auto-racing/thatsracin/article217540295.html

 

The battle in the USA isn't over race, IMO.  I mean, that's part of it, certainly.  But the bigger, overriding battle in this country, IMO, is the battle for the moral highground.  The need for people to express how moral and right they are and how above others they are.  You don't even really have to look further than this board for evidence of that.  

 

 

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Yep.  This thread went exactly where I thought it would.  Too bad really.  It had a chance to be interesting.  

You and I both know any chance to **** on Trump is going to show eventually in this thread's like this evevmtually, but still a lot going on in here seperate from him.  I responded to your last comment, waiting for you to agree or prove me wrong.

[tshile]

14 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

Threads like this create racism and in a strange way Trump has exposed closet racists. 

 

So interesting to read. 

Not all the racists he’s exposed are white 

 

[Kosher Ham]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Huh?

You know what I am saying, come on man. 

[Kilmer17]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

You and I both know any chance to **** on Trump is going to show eventually in this thread's like this evevmtually, but still a lot going on in here seperate from him.  I responded to your last comment, waiting for you to agree or prove me wrong.

Im just done reading it.  The first link is terrible.  And certainly shows prejudice from that bank.  The second though follows what I thought, which is that yes, blacks do face harder times getting mortgages.  But it's not because they are black.  IT's because of poor credit, or other factors in underwriting.  I dont think a bank is at fault for not making it's guidelines relaxed more to better accommodate people who wouldnt otherwise qualify.

 

I appreciate the attempt at discourse

 

[Mr. Sinister]

Just now, BenningRoadSkin said:

This is so depressing. You do everything right and still get screwed over.

 

By a difference of over $200k, between two separate appraisers.

[tshile]

12 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I dont think a bank is at fault for not making it's guidelines relaxed more to better accommodate people who wouldnt otherwise qualify.

Doing that was a main factor in the last housing crisis we had...

 

We take too many shortcuts in this country when it comes to fixing real problems, and we always pay for it.

[Kosher Ham]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

Doing that was a main factor in the last housing crisis we had...

 

We take too many shortcuts in this country when it comes to fixing real problems, and we always pay for it.

 

True but a cherry pick type of thing. 

[Renegade7]

30 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Im just done reading it.  The first link is terrible.  And certainly shows prejudice from that bank.  The second though follows what I thought, which is that yes, blacks do face harder times getting mortgages.  But it's not because they are black.  IT's because of poor credit, or other factors in underwriting.  I dont think a bank is at fault for not making it's guidelines relaxed more to better accommodate people who wouldnt otherwise qualify.

 

Agree, banks shouldn't have to lessen their requirements to makeup for blatant examples.  Giving home loans to people that obviously can't handle was huge reason 08 happen, though this on the line stuff is tough to determine how to deal with.

 

  Been experiments with stuff like job interviews and airbnb showing denial rates where only difference is having a black sounding name or not.  That's nearly impossible to enforce without hard numbers, which is why I want more resources to investigating this. The blatant examples need to be eliminated.

 

Quote

I appreciate the attempt at discourse

 

 

Anytime, man.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Renegade7

[Kilmer17]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Agree, banks shouldn't have to lessen their requirements to makeup for blatant examples.  Giving home loans to people that obviously can't handle was huge reason 08 happen, though this on the line stuff is tough to determine how to deal with.

 

  Been experiments with stuff like job interviews and airbnb showing denial rates where only difference is having a black sounding name or not.  That's nearly impossible to enforce without hard numbers, which is why I want more resources to investigating this. The blatant examples need to be eliminated.

 

 

Anytime, man.

I've seen a bunch of those over the years, and they never go far enough to prove their hypothesis.  It's always just anecdotal.  That said, I am sure that there are people who wont rent their houses on air bnb to people with black names.