Racism in America.... Is it worse now after the 2016 election?

[brandymac27]

I was on YouTube watching videos, and I came across this gem from approximately 40 or 50 years ago. It made me think about all the **** that's going on in the country today regarding race. I feel like if anything, things may be worse now than they were 50 years ago. Aside from segregation back then, at least racist, bigots were open about their stupidity.

 

I feel like every racist asshole these days have suppressed all the hate they have for others which has made them even more dangerous than the idiots in the video. I guess now they feel that they can all come out of the closet and be the bigots they really are. 

 

What do you really think about race relations in America now that all the bigots have come out from under their rock post Trump's election? Do you think things will ever change? When we thought things were getting better, obviously we were all mistaken. What's it gonna take to really fix this problem?

[Kilmer17]

I dont think its worse.  I think it's covered more by the press because it sells.  So it appears worse.  But compared to the 50s-60s even 70s?  It's much improved.

[brandymac27]

8 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I dont think its worse.  I think it's covered more by the press because it sells.  So it appears worse.  But compared to the 50s-60s even 70s?  It's much improved.

I have to disagree. I know 50 years ago we were dealing with segregation and the civil rights movement, etc. We're dealing with a different type of racism now, even though you may not think it's as bad as it was then, but I don't think ANY form of racism is less oppressive than another regardless of the circumstances.

 

I guess I wanna know what has caused all this recent display of bigotry and ignorance, and can it ever be fixed?

Edited August 31, 2018 by brandymac27

[Kilmer17]

Just now, brandymac27 said:

I have to disagree. I know 50 years ago we were dealing with segregation and the civil rights movement, etc. We're dealing with a different type of racism now, even though you may not think it's as bad as it was then, but I don't think ANY form of racism is less oppressive than another regardless of the circumstances.

 

I guess I wanna know what has caused all this recent display of bigotry and ignorance, and can it ever be fixed?

The simple answer is the internet and social media.  20 years ago 25 loser white dudes would sit alone in their moms basement with a nazi flag and scream at the walls.  Now the 25 of them can connect on social media and decide to meet up somewhere and the media covers it like it's the anti civil rights march.

[LadySkinsFan]

It's the same, only more exposed by Trump and his minions and the media properly reporting that a significant number of citizens are racist and are now encouraged by the Trump/minions dog whistles and outright verbalizing/actions.

[purbeast]

7 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

The simple answer is the internet and social media.  20 years ago 25 loser white dudes would sit alone in their moms basement with a nazi flag and scream at the walls.  Now the 25 of them can connect on social media and decide to meet up somewhere and the media covers it like it's the anti civil rights march.

Having an openly racist president probably has a little bit to do with it as well...

[brandymac27]

Just now, LadySkinsFan said:

It's the same, only more exposed by Trump and his minions and the media properly reporting that a significant number of citizens are racist and are now encouraged by the Trump/minions dog whistles and outright verbalizing/actions.

I agree 100%. I'm taking into consideration that now we have 24 hour news, internet to report these hate crimes much faster than years ago.

 

What bothers me is that people assume because people aren't being hung by a noose in trees that racism is better now than it was before. What about all the idiots that you mentioned? What about all the racist cops killing minorities?

 

To me, it's no better than it was, except now, like you said, people are encouraged to be racist assholes because they have a orange idiot and his minions who encourages their ****ed up behavior. It makes me feel like things will only get worse until something really serious happens.

[Kilmer17]

Just now, brandymac27 said:

I agree 100%. I'm taking into consideration that now we have 24 hour news, internet to report these hate crimes much faster than years ago.

 

What bothers me is that people assume because people aren't being hung by a noose in trees that racism is better now than it was before. What about all the idiots that you mentioned? What about all the racist cops killing minorities?

 

To me, it's no better than it was, except now, like you said, people are encouraged to be racist assholes because they have a orange idiot and his minions who encourages their ****ed up behavior. It makes me feel like things will only get worse until something really serious happens.

Well, you asked is it worse.  Cops are not killing minorities in greater numbers now than they were 30+ years ago.  

 

But now it really seems like this was just another "**** trump and anyone who doesnt completely agree with the liberal mindset must be racist" thread.

 

 

[brandymac27]

12 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

The simple answer is the internet and social media.  20 years ago 25 loser white dudes would sit alone in their moms basement with a nazi flag and scream at the walls.  Now the 25 of them can connect on social media and decide to meet up somewhere and the media covers it like it's the anti civil rights march.

So the internet has caused this new wave of racism?

[Kilmer17]

Just now, brandymac27 said:

So the internet has caused this new wave of racism?

I think the internet has amplified it so it appears so.

[brandymac27]

1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said:

Well, you asked is it worse.  Cops are not killing minorities in greater numbers now than they were 30+ years ago.  

 

But now it really seems like this was just another "**** trump and anyone who doesnt completely agree with the liberal mindset must be racist" thread.

 

 

Wrong. I want to honestly know why so many people that were so quiet have now decided it's the right time to display their true colors? 

[grego]

3 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

The simple answer is the internet and social media.  20 years ago 25 loser white dudes would sit alone in their moms basement with a nazi flag and scream at the walls.  Now the 25 of them can connect on social media and decide to meet up somewhere and the media covers it like it's the anti civil rights march.

 

i think thats unquestionably true. social media and filter bubbles have skewed reality. the question is, how can you objectively know the answer as to whether or not people are more racist than 2 years ago.

 

i think some kind of poll done by a reputable company would be the best way. polls have shown that over the last 50, 60 whatever years, racial attitudes have changed dramatically. stephen pinker has done interesting work in this department, putting together objective measurements of where we are compared to where we were and how things are actually pretty amazing now, yet almost nobody feels that way. social media isnt the only reason we feel that way, its also because negative memories are stronger than positive, and such. interesting stuff.

[Bozo the kKklown]

It is probably the same.

 

We have an openly racist president right now. Before 2016 we had a black president and people were being openly racist and disrespectful to him because he was black.

 

Barack Obama's presidency made a lot of white people, from out and out racists to sympathizers and apologists, lose their minds. POTUS is supposed to be a white man's position in their minds and they lost it. That's why the Koch Brothers astroturfed the Tea Party movement. That's why there was a made-up controversy about Obama's birth certificate, and why many racist and racist sympathizers right-wing people were up in arms over the FBI saying right-wing groups were a threat to America. And it is why people for some reason fear ISIS more than the Christian Right and extremist racist white terrorist groups, despite those groups creating more violence and killing more Americans in America than ISIS ever has. Unfortunately, this is America. 

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, brandymac27 said:

Wrong. I want to honestly know why so many people that were so quiet have now decided it's the right time to display their true colors? 

Define "so many".  

[grego]

8 minutes ago, brandymac27 said:

 

 

What bothers me is that people assume because people aren't being hung by a noose in trees that racism is better now than it was before. What about all the idiots that you mentioned? What about all the racist cops killing minorities?

 

 

this is a problem of perception not representing actual numbers, if we saw every shooting by every cop, and statistics back this up as well, i submit our impressions would be different. 

 

(and no, i'm not commenting more on this topic because its nearly impossible to discuss, but i'll PM with anyone if they like)

[LD0506]

Like most subjects, there isn't a simple binary "either/or" answer.

 

In many ways we are FAR better off than in years past. IMO the most significant way is that the broad uncaring majority in the middle has been exposed (forcibly and otherwise) to the actual diversity in our midst. They see and interact with a far wider array of people than before, and it is just normal everyday things. Your muslim doctor or African American mail carrier or gay nephew, you see them, up close and personal and realize that all those spooky scary "monster under the bed" stories were just that, stories.

 

In other ways we are worse than before. The internet, social media, etc. allow the amplification as Kilmer noted and it is a force multiplier, they seem far more numerous and powerful than they really are. Recently we have seen a normalization of overt white supremacists and their diseased ilk running for office, running on a platform of open racism and hatred and sadly, getting traction with it.

 

In actual %s, it is probably no worse than it ever was and you could make the case that it is smaller than it used to, but again, I see that because of so many people being willing to give tacit support by their silence, and a lot of that has fallen away.

 

I am of the opinion that you cannot even begin to address a problem until you admit that it exists. Ok, check that one off, anyone trying to deny it now basically paints a swastika on their own door, the evidence is overwhelming and indisputable.

 

The real question is what do we do with this realization?

[brandymac27]

1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said:

Define "so many".  

Look, I live in the south. I see it and hear it everyday. Not to mention all the crap that we all see and read about in the news. 

 

Example: just the other day I went to my best friend's ( who's black) daughter's ballet recital. I went with my friend and her daughter, and the parents and friends of parents were all supposed to get front row seats in the auditorium. Now my friend's daughter was 1 of 2 black girls dancing out of a class of 33. When we walked to our seats in the front row, we were berated by a lady who kept telling us we needed to sit in the back just like we should sit in the back of the bus that we rode in on ( even though we both drove, and my friend dives a very nice car). 

 

Point is, **** like this happens a LOT.

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, brandymac27 said:

Look, I live in the south. I see it and hear it everyday. Not to mention all the crap that we all see and read about in the news. 

 

Example: just the other day I went to my best friend's ( who's black) daughter's ballet recital. I went with my friend and her daughter, and the parents and friends of parents were all supposed to get front row seats in the auditorium. Now my friend's daughter was 1 of 2 black girls dancing out of a class of 33. When we walked to our seats in the front row, we were berated by a lady who kept telling us we needed to sit in the back just like we should sit in the back of the bus that we rode in on ( even though we both drove, and my friend dives a very nice car). 

 

Point is, **** like this happens a LOT.

Sure.  But does it happen MORE than years ago.  I dont think actual statistics would show that.  I think statistics would show that those incidents are covered more now.  That's a significant, and probably MORE IMPORTANT, stat.  Anecdotal examples arent a good measure for answering a broad question of better or worse.

[brandymac27]

1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said:

Sure.  But does it happen MORE than years ago.  I dont think actual statistics would show that.  I think statistics would show that those incidents are covered more now.  That's a significant, and probably MORE IMPORTANT, stat.  Anecdotal examples arent a good measure for answering a broad question of better or worse.

I'll agree with you because I think I screwed up the OP.  It may not happen MORE, but I would argue it happens just as much, and on a different scale if that makes sense. Obviously I agree that the incidents are covered more now, but I don't get how that has anything to do with the change in these people who have recently found their ball sack and intentionally berate and demean minorities compared to 10 or 15 years ago.

Maybe in the OP, I should've asked what's changed now as opposed to 10 or 15 years ago instead of 50 years ago. My fault for screwing up the OP.

[Bozo the kKklown]

The biggest issue with racism is that a lot of white people think of racism as saying the N-word, lynchings, and racial segregation.

 

Many white people don't think Ronald Reagan is a racist for instance, yet he gave his first speech as the GOP's candidate for POTUS in Philadelphia, Mississippi arguing for state's rights. That town is where three civil rights workers were murdered and the people who did the murder were found guilty in federal court because the state of Mississippi refused to prosecute them.

 

For some weird reason, context is ignored in incidences like this. Because of this stuff like stripping the voting rights act, curtailing affirmative action, redlining, and other nefarious but not in your face racist things happen which then leads to state sanction police killings, the rise of white extremist groups, and the election of a racist white president happens. All of that will then lead back to what I said in my first sentence.

 

Racism has not gotten worse since the 2016 election because it was just two years ago, but all of this stuff is coming back and I really hope many of you wake up and start paying attention and fight it instead of telling the injured that they are not injured.

[Forehead]

I'm actually with Kilmer on this one, though I probably don't have much perspective to comment, being a white male.  50 years ago was 1968, before my time, but there were some pretty serious race riots that year.  We don't have such outwardly racist things like separate drinking fountains anymore, I haven't heard of any recent lynchings, stuff like that.

 

Which isn't to say we don't have racist people among us, but a lot of those older institutions have changed.  I agree with Kilmer that the Internet, social media and our awareness has changed significantly, which makes the problems seem even larger, but compared to 50 years ago when someone could be outwardly racist without consequence...I think we're better off now.

 

There's no denying we have someone in the White House who is, at best, a flipping moron when it comes to this stuff, and a supporter of it at worst.  I look at recent events which in general tell me we're in a better place now.

 

1. The recent march in DC, even in Charlottesville.  Charlottesville was horrific, but as Kilmer said, these people have always been around, they're now getting their voices amplified by the Internet and social media, and getting unspoken approval from the White House.  However, unlike the klan marches of decades past which most of the white majority accepted as normal, I saw a lot of people, of all shades and colors, who were out yelling at these idiots and telling them to crawl back under their rocks.  Same with the recent one in DC, it might have been minimally attended by the racist group, but a whole lot of folks showed up to call them out on their ****, all colors united.

 

2. People getting called out for past actions.  In particular, I'm thinking of all the old tweets that have been discovered in the feeds of several MLB pitchers, who have all had to make statements about it not being them, not who they are now, etc.  Say what you will about combing through peoples old social media looking for "gotchas", and the apologies might be insincere, but the point is that people are being called out for this stuff now.  That wasn't happening decades ago, those attitudes were generally accepted as perfectly fine.

 

We've got a long way to go, but I see much more unity against racism than I've read about from other decades, which I think is a massive step.  It is unfortunate that some of these morons have had their voices so well heard, I'm not even sure I'm in favor of first amendments rights for clear hate speech, but my hope is that once Trump is out of office, we'll see these folks go back into hiding and posting among themselves on their message boards, and hopefully, we never again have a situation where they feel emboldened to step out again. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't know if it's worse, I don't know if it's better.  I don't like Trump.  I think he's got some racist tendencies and he's certainly not doing anything to bring people together...rather, he's driving people further apart.  I think we've got a different kind of racism going on that's not about sitting in the back of the bus or not being able to sit at a lunch counter.  It's more about smacking down people who want to speak up and also acting like there's not a problem.   I'm not sure if I can put it into words.

 

But let's not pretend that Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Philando Castile, Freddie Gray and countless others happened under Trump.  I think people seize on the race issue cause there's a President who's enabling white supremacists and racists to feel that they have a place at the table and doesn't do anything to denounce them.  It's certainly bothersome that those voices are being heard but it's been swelling for years.  Police brutality, killing of minorities has always been a problem and it didn't magically get better in the 70s and 80s.  Trump isn't 100% responsible for the current climate but he's definitely fanned the flames.  

 

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-obama-african-americans/

 

Quote

As for what the president was able to accomplish, Williams credits him with halting the financial crisis and projecting American credibility to the rest of the world.

But when it came to addressing police shootings of blacks at home, he said, America’s first black president seemed aloof.

“He was too eloquent, too cool, too passive,” Williams said. “I just can't give him a good grade in terms of civil rights for black people. We didn’t get anything, really.”

 

One guy's opinion, anyway.  

 

 

 

[Kilmer17]

6 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

The biggest issue with racism is that a lot of white people think of racism as saying the N-word, lynchings, and racial segregation.

 

Many white people don't think Ronald Reagan is a racist for instance, yet he gave his first speech as the GOP's candidate for POTUS in Philadelphia, Mississippi arguing for state's rights. That town is where three civil rights workers were murdered and the people who did the murder were found guilty in federal court because the state of Mississippi refused to prosecute them.

 

For some weird reason, context is ignored in incidences like this. Because of this stuff like stripping the voting rights act, curtailing affirmative action, redlining, and other nefarious but not in your face racist things happen which then leads to state sanction police killings, the rise of white extremist groups, and the election of a racist white president happens. All of that will then lead back to what I said in my first sentence.

 

Racism has not gotten worse since the 2016 election because it was just two years ago, but all of this stuff is coming back and I really hope many of you wake up and start paying attention and fight it instead of telling the injured that they are not injured.

That was FORTY years ago.

[Bozo the kKklown]

13 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I don't know if it's worse, I don't know if it's better.  I don't like Trump.  I think he's got some racist tendencies and he's certainly not doing anything to bring people together...rather, he's driving people further apart.  I think we've got a different kind of racism going on that's not about sitting in the back of the bus or not being able to sit at a lunch counter.  It's more about smacking down people who want to speak up and also acting like there's not a problem.   I'm not sure if I can put it into words.

 

But let's not pretend that Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Philando Castile, Freddie Gray and countless others happened under Trump.  I think people seize on the race issue cause there's a President who's enabling white supremacists and racists to feel that they have a place at the table and doesn't do anything to denounce them.  It's certainly bothersome that those voices are being heard but it's been swelling for years.  Police brutality, killing of minorities has always been a problem and it didn't magically get better in the 70s and 80s.  Trump isn't 100% responsible for the current climate but he's definitely fanned the flames.  

 

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-obama-african-americans/

 

 

One guy's opinion, anyway.  

 

 

 

I actually agree with that. 

 

Although he got shook because of his comments on Trayvon Martin and the right-wing media backlash that came from that.

 

Trump is the representation of post-civil rights backlash in America.

 

18 minutes ago, Forehead said:

Which isn't to say we don't have racist people among us, but a lot of those older institutions have changed.  I

the problem is they haven't changed, they just aren't saying it in the open anymore. Instead, everything is policy changes. Fox News is a racist network but you will never hear them say anything overtly racist, but they play up dog whistles. Everything is institutionalized and racist language have been adjusted to fit the mainstream. 

11 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

That was FORTY years ago.

And if I didn't say the context, many would not have thought Ronald Reagan was racist -- and I am sure a few people will not see those actions as racist by Reagan. That is my point. Also, state-backed violence against black people isn't a 40 years ago thing.

Edited August 31, 2018 by BenningRoadSkin

[justice98]

Whether it's worse than 50 years ago isnt really the question, because it's not debatable.  I think even trying to compare minimizes the racism of today.

 

The question should just be is it worse since the 2016 election.  I think the answer would have to be yes. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by justice98