2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[volsmet]

17 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Devin Singletary looks great. There is no way however that I think he will be the best value in the 2nd round. There are too many quality defenders. Some are going to fall. There should be some very good OL and receivers.

 

That said, if Singletary is the BPA by a significant margin, take him. I'm still fuming over having passed on Adrian Peterson and Aaron Rogers. I just looked up what we got out of trading down and taking Kerrigan instead of JJ Watt. It's an embarrassment. We essentially traded JJ Watt and the 144th pick for Ryan Kerrigan, Leonard Hankerson, Roy Helu, Dejon Gomes and Aldrick Robinson. We got taken and it could have been much worse. We are lucky that Ryan Kerrigan has been so good for so long. 

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/16049/revisiting-the-redskins-2011-draft-class

 

 

Also, this might be the least awe inspiring highlight video I've ever seen. 

Daniel Jones looks like he has grossly inadequate arm strength. His college stats were garbage. By most accounts he looked worse than expected all week at the Senior bowl. And he's going to go in the first or second? Why? Because he is tall? Because he had a coach that previously coached someone else that was actually good? 

 

I can’t watch him, if I think he’s good I’m scared SIP will send me a glitter bomb, those things are a problem.

 

[Jericho]

The other obvious factor here is that while the Redskins desperately need some youth at the QB position, you're not going to win many games with a rookie QB. And you're really not going to win with some 2nd/3rd round talent that you reach for in the first round. Maybe if the rest of your team was THAT good, but that's not these Redskins. With Gruden and Allen on the hot seat, why would they hitch their wagons to some middling prospect? I'm not sure any prospect in this draft would be considered better than Lamar Jackson, and he went pick 32 last year (though most put Haskins higher and Murray is a bit of a wild card, but both carry significant risks). Seems ripe for some veteran retread signing

[Anselmheifer]

The QB position this year is making my head spin. I don't think I have what it takes to pick a winner.

 

In the first, I could make myself feel hopeful about Kyler Murray, Drew Lock, or Dwayne Haskins. Maybe Lock's unimpressive completion percentage, accuracy, and ability to make plays under pressure improve. I agree with whoever said Lock's arm is special. It is a rare arm. He's got a Cutler/Rogers/Matt Stafford arm. He seems like a likable kid. I just don't know that he has the, "It" factor on the field. Murray certainly has the, "It" factor. Maybe he can overcome his size.

I'd be happy with Finley or Minshew in the 3rd or 4th. I want no part of Daniel Jones. 

Also, am I the only one that thinks that Tyree Jackson is a thrower and not a passer? He's got a very long delivery and if I had to pick someone he reminds me of, it would be Ryan Mallet. That's not a complement. Huge. Tons of arm strength. Long, wind up and slow delivery. Has anyone like him ever succeeded in the NFL? I can't remember any good 6'7" QB's. 

[RWJ]

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Actually Josh Johnson wouldn't be a mile away.  But heck you can probably get that backup in this draft in the later rounds, plenty of RPO-RO spread style QBs.  Kyle Murray is more dynamic obviously than any of other guys in the draft but you can find QBs who run that style of offense. 

 

 

 

More video I see of Murray both audio and visual the more I like the kid too, SIP.  He very well could be there at #15 when we pick and interesting that Stidham worked with O' Connell too.  Could we see another Skins draft where two QBs are taken in the same draft.

[bowhunter]

Kyler Murray plays too many video games. Not worthy of a Day one pick.

Can some of you join me in starting a twitter campaign about this topic?

[Anselmheifer]

18 minutes ago, Jericho said:

The other obvious factor here is that while the Redskins desperately need some youth at the QB position, you're not going to win many games with a rookie QB. And you're really not going to win with some 2nd/3rd round talent that you reach for in the first round. Maybe if the rest of your team was THAT good, but that's not these Redskins. With Gruden and Allen on the hot seat, why would they hitch their wagons to some middling prospect? I'm not sure any prospect in this draft would be considered better than Lamar Jackson, and he went pick 32 last year (though most put Haskins higher and Murray is a bit of a wild card, but both carry significant risks). Seems ripe for some veteran retread signing

I agree with what you are saying. At the QB position, go big or go home. Try to draft a guy that can lead a franchise to the playoffs every year for 10 years. Don't draft Christian Ponder or Blaine Gabbert. 

 

I'm still warming to Kyler Murray, and I'm starting to think we might have to move up to get him. In talking about his size, maybe I hadn't strongly enough considered the impact of all of the recent NFL rule changes and the incorporation of spread offense concepts. 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Jericho said:

The other obvious factor here is that while the Redskins desperately need some youth at the QB position, you're not going to win many games with a rookie QB. And you're really not going to win with some 2nd/3rd round talent that you reach for in the first round. Maybe if the rest of your team was THAT good, but that's not these Redskins. With Gruden and Allen on the hot seat, why would they hitch their wagons to some middling prospect? I'm not sure any prospect in this draft would be considered better than Lamar Jackson, and he went pick 32 last year (though most put Haskins higher and Murray is a bit of a wild card, but both carry significant risks). Seems ripe for some veteran retread signing

 

I’d rather have a bellybutton that dispensed 11 ounces of ketchup every time I saw a lamp than be building around Lamar Jackson. 

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

The QB position this year is making my head spin. I don't think I have what it takes to pick a winner.

 

In the first, I could make myself feel hopeful about Kyler Murray, Drew Lock, or Dwayne Haskins. Maybe Lock's unimpressive completion percentage, accuracy, and ability to make plays under pressure improve. I agree with whoever said Lock's arm is special. It is a rare arm. He's got a Cutler/Rogers/Matt Stafford arm. He seems like a likable kid. I just don't know that he has the, "It" factor on the field. Murray certainly has the, "It" factor. Maybe he can overcome his size.

I'd be happy with Finley or Minshew in the 3rd or 4th. I want no part of Daniel Jones. 

Also, am I the only one that thinks that Tyree Jackson is a thrower and not a passer? He's got a very long delivery and if I had to pick someone he reminds me of, it would be Ryan Mallet. That's not a complement. Huge. Tons of arm strength. Long, wind up and slow delivery. Has anyone like him ever succeeded in the NFL? I can't remember any good 6'7" QB's. 

 

Humility is the first part of giving yourself a chance to pick a winner. Bill Polian was talked out of Leaf for Manning, my cousin is in the Colts front office, Polian humility is why he’s a hall of famer, his evaluations are great, but his trust in others is what separates the best.

 

Trust what you see, share it, we will all gain from the opportunity to consider it. 

 

 

39 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I agree with what you are saying. At the QB position, go big or go home. Try to draft a guy that can lead a franchise to the playoffs every year for 10 years. Don't draft Christian Ponder or Blaine Gabbert. 

 

I'm still warming to Kyler Murray, and I'm starting to think we might have to move up to get him. In talking about his size, maybe I hadn't strongly enough considered the impact of all of the recent NFL rule changes and the incorporation of spread offense concepts. 

 

His size is perfect, you can’t hit a QB high, you can’t hit a QB low, ipso facto colombo oreo, you can’t hit Kyler at all.

[Mania]

@volsmet Lamar Jackson is going to be very good for a long time.  He played in a pro style offense in college, the  erhardt perkins scheme and is a pass first qb.  I watched a lot of his games this year and he does a tremendous job keeping his eyes downfield.   The ravens did a very good job putting a game plan in place for someone who had very little practice with the starters in the offseason.  

 

I watched a ton of his film last offseason and was hoping the Skins drafted him.   That being said, Kyler Murray is way too small.  

 

Polian is way overrated.  When Peyton Manning went down that entire team fell apart and won 2 games.    

[Mania]

On 1/28/2019 at 11:51 PM, volsmet said:

People criticize Lock for staring guys down. Here we have 3rd and 10, in the 4th quarter, on the road, in a one score game, backed up.

 

 

damn, what year is this from.  Draft breakdown hasn't been around since late 2017. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

3 hours ago, Jericho said:

The other obvious factor here is that while the Redskins desperately need some youth at the QB position, you're not going to win many games with a rookie QB. And you're really not going to win with some 2nd/3rd round talent that you reach for in the first round. Maybe if the rest of your team was THAT good, but that's not these Redskins. With Gruden and Allen on the hot seat, why would they hitch their wagons to some middling prospect? I'm not sure any prospect in this draft would be considered better than Lamar Jackson, and he went pick 32 last year (though most put Haskins higher and Murray is a bit of a wild card, but both carry significant risks). Seems ripe for some veteran retread signing

The self preservation aspect of drafting a QB this year would be the spin after we fail to make the playoffs this season. It's gonna be hard to sell Snyder on another year of Bruce and Jay coming off another losing record and only the promise of a 36 year old Alex Smith maybe coming back after a year and a half out of action. But you tell Danny "yeah, but wait until that rookie QB takes over. Woo-boy!" That (unfortunately) might buy them another year.

 

I wouldn't even be surprised to see them trade back up into the end of the first round just to have a guy they can call "a 1st round QB". So, if we don't take one at 15, keep your eye out at the end of the round for a deal for a Jones/Greir type. I could see that happening.

[Going Commando]

8 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

The QB position this year is making my head spin. I don't think I have what it takes to pick a winner.

 

I think it's normal to feel overwhelmed trying to evaluate the QB position.  Especially in a polarizing class with a lot of flawed prospects like this one, so there isn't a clear standard for the position to compare everyone else to.  There is no consensus in the draftnik community about these guys.

 

The QB position gets nitpicked to death.  No tackle or corner gets scrutinized like this for mechanical mistakes on reps.  No edge player gets dinged as hard for misreading plays.  That speaks to how massively consequential quarterback play is.  It's such a hard position to play, so much complexity in every rep, and thus each rep generates a ton of information to assess.  But it also leads to analysis paralysis on QBs IMO.  Even among a lot of NFL guys, who are unbelievably good at evaluating the other positions.

 

I think Baker Mayfield is a really good example of the football world missing the forest through the trees on evaluating the QB position.  His film was better than everyone else's over the past two years.  He put on a show at the Senior Bowl and the combine, indicating he was a gifted backyard passer with the flexibility to handle a lot of **** being thrown his way.  He had like the second best gun time behind Josh Allen, indicating that the arm strength was their to match the improvisational talent.  And man, his competitive fire was off the charts palpable.  To me it was so clear he was the best individual player in college football last year.  But 90% of the football world got him wrong.  You have to stick to the film to truly understand the way these kids play the game.  And you have to be able to get into their heads and understand how they view the game and how tough and smart they are.  IMO that is the majority of the battle.

 

About this class in particular, I think you've got a tier of guys who are first round caliber and clearly have the talent to start: Murray, Haskins, Lock.

 

And then for everyone else you're ranking them based on how good their upside as a developmental guy is.  Of that list, Jones is probably the clear cut top guy.  He's only 21, he's the biggest and most athletic one aside from the kid from Buffalo, and he's got a good foundation of tools and experience.  Looks like a second rounder.

 

After him you get a tier of Finley, Stidham, and Grier.  Third to fourth round guys.

 

After them you get the Thorson, Rypien, Jackson tier--fourth and fifth rounders most likely.  Developmental guys whose resumes aren't as strong as the ones in front of them.

 

Then you get the long shots tier of Minshew, the kid from Vanderbilt, maybe someone like McSorely or Stick.  Physically limited kids who wouldn't normally be considered NFL prospects but they have something special to them that can catch a team's attention.  These guys will probably go in rounds six and seven, or be preferred UDFAs.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

So what makes Stidham a good prospect?  He's clearly got tools to work with.  But all he does in games is overthrow deep shots, throw check downs, and throw a million screen passes.  Maybe the scheme has really hindered his development, or maybe that's all Auburn thought he could do.

 

I like how he evades pressure, he's got moves in the pocket.  He's got a good arm, he's athletic...but from the game I watched the sum of all those parts amounted to nothing more than the parts themselves.

 

His lack of stats kind of back that up too.

[Anselmheifer]

Looking at the pass rushers, I just noticed that Jachai Polite is only 20, whereas Montez Sweat is 22. Polite has the bend that Sweat lacks, and I wouldn't mind Polite at 15. 

[Skinsinparadise]

The guy I follow the most on the draft these days who I typically like just did his QB assessments.   Murray is #1 to him.  He explains in better football language what I've been saying which is loving Murray's compact and sudden delivery and can push the ball with pace even when his base is out of sorts.  

 

Haskins is #2 to him.  His take on him seems more or less that he's not a perfect prospect.  Good ball placement and arm strength but struggles with pressure and is too conservative at times.  Unlike Murrary, he's less willing to throw in tight windows. 

 

 

 

https://nflupdate.co/report-dolphins-owner-stephen-ross-loves-tua-tagovailoa-getting-high-2020-draft-pick-is-a-priority/

Report: Dolphins Owner Stephen Ross Loves Tua Tagovailoa, Getting High 2020 Draft Pick Is A Priority

Wednesday, January 30, 2019 9:39 pm EST AFC, Draft, Free Agency, Latest News and Rumors

The Dolphins are likely headed towards a developmental season in 2019. This offseason won’t have many, if any, flashy signings. It’s all about the future.

According to Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald, owner Stephen Ross really, really likes Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa and getting a high 2020 draft pick is a priority. The Dolphins also like Oregon’s Justin Herbert.

If Miami doesn’t emerge from the 2020 draft with either of those QBs, it will be considered a disappointment.

The goal entering the 2019 offseason is to begin to rebuild the offensive line and defensive front seven with young, developmental players who haven’t reached their prime.

Miami doesn’t intend to spend big money in free agency because that would enhance the chances of winning next season and thus reduce the chances of a top draft pick. So don’t expect any interest in QB Nick Foles or RB Le’Veon Bell.

The thinking now is a team of young developmental veterans, players on their first or second contracts, and some returning veterans mixed in. 

The Dolphins are set to officially hire Patriots LB coach/DC Brian Flores as their HC after the Super Bowl. According to an ESPN report earlier this month, HC candidates were told to be patient with the teams rebuilding if they were to get the job.

While they aren’t officially calling it tanking, the #TankForTua hashtag could become a thing in 2019.

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

37 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

So what makes Stidham a good prospect?  He's clearly got tools to work with.  But all he does in games is overthrow deep shots, throw check downs, and throw a million screen passes.  Maybe the scheme has really hindered his development, or maybe that's all Auburn thought he could do.

 

I like how he evades pressure, he's got moves in the pocket.  He's got a good arm, he's athletic...but from the game I watched the sum of all those parts amounted to nothing more than the parts themselves.

  

His lack of stats kind of back that up too. 

 

He's kind of a lesser version of Kirk Cousins.  He doesn't have Kirk's arm strength, but their playing styles and skill sets are very similar IMO.

 

Seemed like he took a step back this year compared to last year, when he showed off some pretty advanced skills for his age and looked like the best QB in the SEC until Tagavailoa busted out.  I don't think their offense coped with the loss of Kerryon Johnson, and Stidham came back down to Earth.  Johnson was a workhorse and a big part of why that offense seemed to run so smoothly last year.  He constantly bailed them out of negative leverage downs.

 

I think the optimism of Stidham's NFL projection comes mainly from his footwork and accuracy.  He demonstrates a lot of NFL caliber movement skills and he throws a super catchable ball in the short and intermediate passing game.  He also sees the field well and makes good decisions under pressure.  He's a surprisingly good athlete too.  He's not going to run away from anyone or beat anybody to the edge on QB runs, but his drops are fluid and quick and he does a good job wiggling around in the pocket to buy time and he can scramble for first downs when he escapes the pocket.

 

Basically, he's a pretty good game manager.  He runs your offense smoothly, keeps you on schedule, doesn't turn it over, and if you have good running backs and tough receivers who can run after the catch, he'll keep the chains moving.  He's a clean, low upside option.  I think he does have a chance to become an NFL starter, much like Kirk eventually did, but I don't think he'll be as good as Kirk is.  Kirk has underrated arm strength, and Stidham's isn't as good.  That has me thinking the most likely outcome is he'll be a back up.  But he'd be a strong second stringer who could keep your season going if need be.  I'm thinking fourth round is probably his range.  Similar to Kirk, though this is a much weaker year than 2012 was.  Kirk would probably have been a second rounder in this class.

[volsmet]

8 hours ago, SkinsFanMania said:

@volsmet Lamar Jackson is going to be very good for a long time.  He played in a pro style offense in college, the  erhardt perkins scheme and is a pass first qb.  I watched a lot of his games this year and he does a tremendous job keeping his eyes downfield.   The ravens did a very good job putting a game plan in place for someone who had very little practice with the starters in the offseason.  

 

I watched a ton of his film last offseason and was hoping the Skins drafted him.   That being said, Kyler Murray is way too small.  

 

Polian is way overrated.  When Peyton Manning went down that entire team fell apart and won 2 games.    

 

Yes, I watched every snap of every ravens game, I watched every snap of his in college, I bet against him, su, as a 17.5 point favorite v Houston because of his limitations v, well, simply Ed Oliver; we will have to agree to disagree on Lamar, my issues with him are many, I’d be shocked if he proves to be a top 20 qb over the next 10 years.

 

Polian contributed to a roster or two before Peyton. I accept & sincerely appreciate your criticisms, we simply land in different places on those two topics. 

 

 

[PlayAction]

Stidham sounds like a perfect candidate for a back-up QB in a WCO team.  Skins should be in the market for one if the head office wants to continue with that style of offense.

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think it's normal to feel overwhelmed trying to evaluate the QB position.  Especially in a polarizing class with a lot of flawed prospects like this one, so there isn't a clear standard for the position to compare everyone else to.  There is no consensus in the draftnik community about these guys.

 

The QB position gets nitpicked to death.  No tackle or corner gets scrutinized like this for mechanical mistakes on reps.  No edge player gets dinged as hard for misreading plays.  That speaks to how massively consequential quarterback play is.  It's such a hard position to play, so much complexity in every rep, and thus each rep generates a ton of information to assess.  But it also leads to analysis paralysis on QBs IMO.  Even among a lot of NFL guys, who are unbelievably good at evaluating the other positions.

 

I think Baker Mayfield is a really good example of the football world missing the forest through the trees on evaluating the QB position.  His film was better than everyone else's over the past two years.  He put on a show at the Senior Bowl and the combine, indicating he was a gifted backyard passer with the flexibility to handle a lot of **** being thrown his way.  He had like the second best gun time behind Josh Allen, indicating that the arm strength was their to match the improvisational talent.  And man, his competitive fire was off the charts palpable.  To me it was so clear he was the best individual player in college football last year.  But 90% of the football world got him wrong.  You have to stick to the film to truly understand the way these kids play the game.  And you have to be able to get into their heads and understand how they view the game and how tough and smart they are.  IMO that is the majority of the battle.

 

About this class in particular, I think you've got a tier of guys who are first round caliber and clearly have the talent to start: Murray, Haskins, Lock.

 

And then for everyone else you're ranking them based on how good their upside as a developmental guy is.  Of that list, Jones is probably the clear cut top guy.  He's only 21, he's the biggest and most athletic one aside from the kid from Buffalo, and he's got a good foundation of tools and experience.  Looks like a second rounder.

 

After him you get a tier of Finley, Stidham, and Grier.  Third to fourth round guys.

 

After them you get the Thorson, Rypien, Jackson tier--fourth and fifth rounders most likely.  Developmental guys whose resumes aren't as strong as the ones in front of them.

 

Then you get the long shots tier of Minshew, the kid from Vanderbilt, maybe someone like McSorely or Stick.  Physically limited kids who wouldn't normally be considered NFL prospects but they have something special to them that can catch a team's attention.  These guys will probably go in rounds six and seven, or be preferred UDFAs.

 

It seems more a consensus at the top this year than the previous two, or is that just my perception? At this time, in the previous two seasons, I thought Watson & Darold would be the first QBs off the board, this year it’s all Haskins with Murray recently adding his name to the board & Lock now separating himself from the next tier. 

 

And then for everyone else you're ranking them based on how good their upside as a developmental guy is.  Of that list, Jones is probably the clear cut top guy.  He's only 21, he's the biggest and most athletic one aside from the kid from Buffalo, and he's got a good foundation of tools and experience.  Looks like a second rounder.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

It seems more a consensus at the top this year than the previous two, or is that just my perception? At this time, in the previous two seasons, I thought Watson & Darold would be the first QBs off the board, this year it’s all Haskins with Murray recently adding his name to the board & Lock now separating himself from the next tier. 

 

 

Haskins and Murray yes.  I hate to say it but plenty think Jones is as good or better than Lock among draft geek types.  One of those guys in particular I respect, Brugler, has Jones rated highly.  Heck I saw one recently say he's the best QB in this draft.  It's really bizarre to me.    I'd say on this thread Lock is the consensus #3 but I don't see him as a slam dunk #3 with the draft geeks.   Murray is a little polarizing I noticed -- I'd say 75-25 or something like that is positive but the haters on him are vocal.

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

So what makes Stidham a good prospect?  He's clearly got tools to work with.  But all he does in games is overthrow deep shots, throw check downs, and throw a million screen passes.  Maybe the scheme has really hindered his development, or maybe that's all Auburn thought he could do.

 

I like how he evades pressure, he's got moves in the pocket.  He's got a good arm, he's athletic...but from the game I watched the sum of all those parts amounted to nothing more than the parts themselves.

 

His lack of stats kind of back that up too.

 

I have the opposite initial take on Stidham, I think he’s useless because of his Shulerish trembling pocket presence. Watching him v UCF I saw fear, watching him vs my Vols I saw Akili Smith light.

 

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The guy I follow the most on the draft these days who I typically like just did his QB assessments.   Murray is #1 to him.  He explains in better football language what I've been saying which is loving Murray's compact and sudden delivery and can push the ball with pace even when his base is out of sorts.  

 

Haskins is #2 to him.  His take on him seems more or less that he's not a perfect prospect.  Good ball placement and arm strength but struggles with pressure and is too conservative at times.  Unlike Murrary, he's less willing to throw in tight windows. 

 

 

 

https://nflupdate.co/report-dolphins-owner-stephen-ross-loves-tua-tagovailoa-getting-high-2020-draft-pick-is-a-priority/

Report: Dolphins Owner Stephen Ross Loves Tua Tagovailoa, Getting High 2020 Draft Pick Is A Priority

Wednesday, January 30, 2019 9:39 pm EST AFC, Draft, Free Agency, Latest News and Rumors

The Dolphins are likely headed towards a developmental season in 2019. This offseason won’t have many, if any, flashy signings. It’s all about the future.

According to Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald, owner Stephen Ross really, really likes Alabama QB Tua Tagovailoa and getting a high 2020 draft pick is a priority. The Dolphins also like Oregon’s Justin Herbert.

If Miami doesn’t emerge from the 2020 draft with either of those QBs, it will be considered a disappointment.

The goal entering the 2019 offseason is to begin to rebuild the offensive line and defensive front seven with young, developmental players who haven’t reached their prime.

Miami doesn’t intend to spend big money in free agency because that would enhance the chances of winning next season and thus reduce the chances of a top draft pick. So don’t expect any interest in QB Nick Foles or RB Le’Veon Bell.

The thinking now is a team of young developmental veterans, players on their first or second contracts, and some returning veterans mixed in. 

The Dolphins are set to officially hire Patriots LB coach/DC Brian Flores as their HC after the Super Bowl. According to an ESPN report earlier this month, HC candidates were told to be patient with the teams rebuilding if they were to get the job.

While they aren’t officially calling it tanking, the #TankForTua hashtag could become a thing in 2019.

 

 

 

 

My wish of 2018, Miami’s plan of 2019. 

 

It seems unfortunate that if not for an awful Alex Smith trade, we may be in position to draft Murray & Brown.

 

[volsmet]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Haskins and Murray yes.  I hate to say it but plenty think Jones is as good or better than Lock among draft geek types.  One of those guys in particular I respect, Brugler, has Jones rated highly.  Heck I saw one recently say he's the best QB in this draft.  It's really bizarre to me.    I'd say on this thread Lock is the consensus #3 but I don't see him as a slam dunk #3 with the draft geeks.   Murray is a little polarizing I noticed -- I'd say 75-25 or something like that is positive but the haters on him are vocal.

 

A month ago Lock seemed the most hated QB on the forum, I must have checked in at the wrong times.

 

Who are some decent draft geeks? I typically only see the random blurb on rotoworld unless I run a specific twitter search from my account that has been repossessed due to my politically disputatious predilections. 🙁

 

 

[dballer]

Are there any Jones apologists in here? Seems like near unanimous hatred...I always feel like QB is the hardest to judge. That is probably why a lot of hype goes into guys with obvious physical tools. The only full game I saw Daniel Jones play this year was against UNC, where he threw it all over the field and ran for almost 200 yards. But UNC was not good. Neither was Duke, really. And I feel like his his first year starting was actually better than his third...which is problematic...

 

I just want someone to give me some positive feedback so when we draft him as our franchise QB i don't feel the need to puke. I like to be optimistic, so just one rave review would be nice .

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Haskins and Murray yes.  I hate to say it but plenty think Jones is as good or better than Lock among draft geek types.  One of those guys in particular I respect, Brugler, has Jones rated highly.  Heck I saw one recently say he's the best QB in this draft.  It's really bizarre to me.    I'd say on this thread Lock is the consensus #3 but I don't see him as a slam dunk #3 with the draft geeks.  

 

I know what you mean.  People I respect think very highly of him.  I am having a little trouble squaring Daniel Jeremiah's high opinion of him and much lower opinion of Kyler Murray with my own feelings on the two.  I'm sold on Kyler Murray.  I'm not going to overthink that one.  But it is making me question if I've been way off on Jones.

 

I believe it's an Andrew Luck effect.  I think people are seeing him as a poor man's Luck.  He's built like Luck.  Big, athletic, NFL ready pocket footwork.  NFL ready eye discipline.  He definitely sees the whole field and works through his progressions with good pace.  Nice placement and touch on his throws to all levels.  I do think there is something to him benefiting from being a student of Cutcliffe because he definitely has a strong foundation of skills and traits.  He's got the details of the position down. 

 

And I do actually like him more upon a second viewing than I did the first time I watched his cut ups.

 

But I still think people are getting fooled if they think they're getting a lesser version of Luck.  First off, his arm isn't like Luck's.  But second, Luck had that playmaker's instinct and spark that made him special.  The off schedule stuff is a lot of what makes him great.  I'll never forget a play that Luck had in 2011 in the Oregon game where Luck threw what should have been a pick six along the sidelines and he actually ran the DB down and hit the guy so hard that he fumbled.  I saw that and pulled a Scot McCloughan and said, wow, Andrew Luck is a football player.  I definitely don't see that kind of competitive superiority in Jones.

 

I think I might have a blind spot about Jones and that I'm not seeing what everyone else is seeing with him.  I see a second rounder and a developmental guy whereas most people are seeing first rounder.  I'm going to reserve judgement on him.  If he ends up being our pick at 15, it's not going to feel good.  But I'm not going to fly off the handle if we do take him.  I'll take a wait and see approach.

3 minutes ago, dballer said:

I just want someone to give me some positive feedback so when we draft him as our franchise QB i don't feel the need to puke. I like to be optimistic, so just one rave review would be nice . 

 

He's not terrible.  I think a lot of the harsh judgement of him is mainly coming from the fact that we think he's being overvalued.

[Going Commando]

One of the things that's so confusing about Jones is how his stats don't seem to match up with his level of play at all.  I'm looking at the Clemson game as a prime example of this.  His line from that game is garbage.  43 attempts but for only 24 completions and 158 yards.  But amazingly enough, he actually played pretty well considering his offensive line got absolutely destroyed by the Clemson DL.  Just relentless pressure almost every freaking snap.  The DL must have swatted about a dozen passes.  And his receivers were really bad.  I counted six drops/bobbles in that game, the most painful one coming in the middle of the first quarter that wiped out what should have been a 40+ yard game.  That was a big time throw from Jones, tough--on the move, against his body as he was staring down he rush.  You've got to make that play for your QB after he gives you that kind of a chance.

 

But my main takeaway from that game is that he's a tough kid who battled.  His team got their asses whipped.  He got hit and pressured all night.  And he was still battling in the fourth until Cutcliffe pulled the plug on the game. 

 

I think there might be some value to seeing him play against a lot of adversity.  He didn't have an offensive line that could win the LoS against a good team.  He didn't have a CeeDee Lamb/Marquise Brown or Parris Campbell or even an Emmanuel Hall to throw to.  He like Jay Cutler--a lone NFL talent getting his butt kicked around leading a team of scrubs who couldn't step up and make plays.

[Going Commando]

I don't think he's got top notch arm talent like Cutler had though.  I don't see the ability to make adjustments on the fly and change his arm slotting like Drew Lock does, despite how athletic he is.  You saw that play out in the four swats Clemson got in that game.  And he definitely not in Murray's or Lock's world in terms of velocity.

 

But the other parts of his make up are good.  He's going to need quite a bit of seasoning and he's going to need to go to the right team.  He can't get picked by some clueless team like Buffalo.  But I'm starting to buy him as the fourth best QB in the class.  And I think it's fair to predict that he's got the best chance to become a starter out of the pack behind the "big three" QBs in this year's class.  Is he Eli Manning with wheels?  Or is he another EJ Manuel?  I think he could go either way.