Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread


stevemcqueen1

Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

So the Skins did remove Cavanaugh and promote O'Connell.  Could that have been part of the reason Smith wasn't as good with us?

 

No offensive mind we have compared to Andy Reid, if that's what you mean. And we're less talented on offense by far. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I think one wildcard here could be the Raiders.  They supposedly don't love Carr and could make a move.    Judging by media buzz -- Giants want Hankins.  Denver wants Lock.  Dolphins in dire need for some buzz would love Murray.   Jax might go the FA route with Foles or trade for Flacco. 

 

 

Bengals are also a wild card.  AJ Green is often getting hurt, how many more seasons can they rely on him?

 

They might think Dalton isn't good enough to take them anywhere, so they might want to move on.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

So the Skins did remove Cavanaugh and promote O'Connell.  Could that have been part of the reason Smith wasn't as good with us?

Oh, certainly. It can't be the fault of the Head Coach and play caller. You know, the guy who runs a completely undisciplined team, keeps hiring incompetent defense coordinators. can't manage the clock or make in-game adjustments, all of which many people forgive because of what an offensive genus he is. He really can't be responsible for how terrible the offense is.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I began my Haskins journey with Michigan State.

 

200.gif

 

Haskins vs psu

tenor.gif?itemid=3887568

 

 

People who call Lock erratic, or question his foot work, or anything else - really ought to take a close look at Haskins v MSU & PSU, he was an udfa in each game, if not for screens & an atrocious pass that 6ft 13in Victor brought in (and scored on) Osu scores nothing.

 

Haskins has more of an arm than I thought, but he was abysmal in the two road games I’ve watched so far. He better be gone when we pick. He’s quickly becoming my Daniel Jones. 😬

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah if i am fired up about one thing this draft is don't draft Daniel Jones.    

 

 

 

He's being overvalued.  If people were looking at his value in the same range as Grier/Finley/Stidham, then I would be more enthusiastic about him.  But right now people are buying high on him by at least a round.

 

I find myself liking Gardner Minshew the most among the non first round QBs.  He's probably like a fifth rounder.  But I would much rather spend a fifth on him than draft Jones/Grier/Stidham/Finley/Thorson in an earlier round.  That's getting better value at the pick IMO.  Yes, he's very Colt McCoy-esque, but he's got some traits that make him better than Colt IMO.

 

What I don't like about him:

- Little big short.

- Low release point.

- Average arm strength

 

What I do like about him:

- Tough as Hell.  Confident passer with a calming presence in the pocket.  Stone cold competitor who plays the game with zero fear.  Absolutely no happy pocket feet.

- Sneaky good runner

- Nimble feet in the pocket.  Tricky with his movement.  Doesn't sell his reads and is frequently doing little things to force you to adjust your plan as a rusher.  Requires very little room to operate.

- Big hands.  Effortless throwing motion.  Can wing 50 passes all over the field without ever laboring on a throw.

- Very fast and compact release

- Ball placement and timing in the short and intermediate game is so clean.  Love his confidence throwing into the tiny windows.  Mike Leach gave him the green light of all green lights and you can tell he totally trusts Minshew.

- Throws into the flats well.  Can drive the ball outside the numbers when he needs to.  Throws a catchable ball too.  TBH, his receivers kind of sucked.  They played scared and left a ton of yards on the field.

- Rip throws down the seams look so easy for him.

 

He just finds a way to get it done.  Breaking Jared Goff's Pac-12 passing yardage record is worth something.  And leading a Washington State team that was just OK to a school record for wins and a bowl win over a pretty good Iowa State team is an impressive season.  They were a hair from winning the Pac-12 and Washington was a much, much more talented team than them.

 

That Alamo Bowl game was low-key my favorite game of the bowl season.  It was a great game and it also was a nice showcase of NFL talent.  I watched the whole thing real time because I was evaluating Montgomery and Butler, and Minshew opened my eyes.  He's a by hook or by crook winner--pulled off all kinds of backyard football nonsense to get that win.  @volsmet is 100% right that Mike Leach is an unconventional genius and teaches a unique brand of quarterbacking.

 

Murray, Lock, and Haskins are going to be gone before we pick.  i don't know... we should draft Minshew.  That's what I would do if I were in charge and my job was on the line.  I would just go BPA in the first or try to trade down, pick David Montgomery in the second, and draft Minshew in the fifth or sixth round.  Maybe it's a long shot for him to ever start, but I think I've at least picked a ten year NFL back up.  And looking at our roster... he'd get a chance to start.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just listened to JP Finley's broadcast from the SB he joked about Craig Hoffman goes some QBs have moxie and some don't -- but Daniel Jones has negative moxie.  Then Finlay talks about can you be as quiet as Jones personality wise and succeed at that position -- Brian Mitchell kicks in to defend Jones by saying Rypien was quiet. 

 

But yeah as for Jones besides his limitation as a passer -- the guy seems to have no pulse-personality. Zero.  Now off my soap box.  😀

Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's being overvalued.  If people were looking at his value in the same range as Grier/Finley/Stidham, then I would be more enthusiastic about him.  But right now people are buying high on him by at least a round.

 

I find myself liking Gardner Minshew the most among the non first round QBs.  He's probably like a fifth rounder.  But I would much rather spend a fifth on him than draft Jones/Grier/Stidham/Finley/Thorson in an earlier round.  That's getting better value at the pick IMO.  Yes, he's very Colt McCoy-esque, but he's got some traits that make him better than Colt IMO.

 

 

That same JP Finlay podcast I just referred to had a Ryan Leaf interview and he pumped up Minshew.  He's fun to watch -- another dude who plays with moxie and extends plays but is limited.  I wouldn't hate the pick if they take him as a flier in the later rounds.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That same JP Finlay podcast I just referred to had a Ryan Leaf interview and he pumped up Minshew.  He's fun to watch -- another dude who plays with moxie and extends plays but is limited.  I wouldn't hate the pick if they take him as a flier in the later rounds. 

 

 

Makes sense.  Leaf is a fellow cougar.  The program actually has a pretty decent lineage at quarterback.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Avert your eyes, please get any children under the age of 16 out of the room before scrolling down; This could scar a child for life. 

 

15 passes from a win, two big completions, one a 2 yard dump that only a 5 star recruit grabs with 1 hand, the other probably an int if playing Bama/Clemson/ExtremeSkins all stars. 

 

This is a game Haskins was the hero of, he’s not the answer to any teams problems, I hope he goes to NY if Jones doesn’t. This isn’t just bad, this is ridiculous.

91E5F599-1912-429C-B6F3-FAC72101BD08.gif

E6908ED8-8F6A-4550-A2D8-DBC410ACD8BB.gif

66314172-4317-4BCB-BEAB-545489D8D26E.gif

2C4FBBBB-795A-4D3F-BB93-9BE6F5C2F79E.gif

00AB66E6-2507-4328-9DE4-4DC8BE8BE56F.gif

A4E7788E-0A79-4F81-8608-839006DEB5E1.gif

8D087DFF-BB89-4539-B584-D56E4C216013.gif

C2D5EFDD-A424-4950-A1EE-ABC9A370D58E.gif

B35C90E8-DB60-475B-8C74-7B11E93CB3E2.gif

4BDE5893-7B80-4162-A55A-6EAFC53CE527.gif

E24D42DA-B1E9-4FA8-93BE-E555324B03DB.gif

58D5C306-3038-4D43-AEBC-37AC2EEBEE3C.gif

2A06D51D-BF85-46A4-88DA-945994F1AC61.gif

3DBDA183-24B8-4132-9BAC-D3D6F856893E.gif

E8DDB379-544F-43D7-964C-CAA5077DAAF9.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve has me convinced, the cure for the migraine I got watching Osu v PSU & MSU is the Alamo bowl. Minshew threw one of the worst passes I’ve ever seen in my life at the sr bowl, but Lock through the 2nd worst ball I’ve ever seen in a game that counted with humans he knew.

 

Pirate time.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Montez Sweat is way stronger than he looks.  He's stiff as a board, but he has a rare combination of length and power that really gives people problems.

 

He got the better of Dalton Risner.  Showed him up and exposed Risner's Achilles Heel--lack of contact balance and functional power.

 

For some reason I don't love him like I love Polite and Allen.  But I see how he could end up being very good.  I think he is a safer and more talented version of Randy Gregory.  He's a first round lock and could end up being the third edge rusher off the board.

 

Risner isn't as good as I remembered from last year.  I thought he was a potential top ten talent because of how good a runner he is.  So twitchy.  He can run like a tight end and his mirror skills are first rate.  Didn't have a ton of problems beating Sweat to the edge.  But he's just not very strong.  He doesn't kick ass and real power in the trenches can son him.  He has trouble sustaining blocks against a handfighter as good as Sweat.

 

He's a good player and his skill set projects to the NFL.  I still think he's a first rounder.  His snap quickness and footspeed are first round traits.  And his ability to play all five spots on the line means almost any team can draft him.  Seems to have the mental make up you're looking for in an OL.  But it's a little disappointing to see him get picked on.  Kind of want a more physical player than him on our line.  Less finesse and more nasty.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

What is pff missing in their ratings? They have him quite close to Tua.

 

 

Who says they are missing anything? In a draft likely to produce 1 NFL starter, he's ranked 2nd by one website in one conference of an entire division of collegiate football. And not in the same conference as any of the other top prospects this year

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Zierlein here with his first mock, Kyler Murray goes #4.  Giants take Jones at #6 instead of Haskins, I'd love that.  We take Polite.

 

 

I'm no NFL.com writer, but not sure how this draft went from "weak at QB" to 4 QBs in the Top 10. I get that teams often reach at QBs, but 4 in the Top 10 would make it one of the "strongest" drafts ever for QBs based on draft value

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

Who says they are missing anything? In a draft likely to produce 1 NFL starter, he's ranked 2nd by one website in one conference of an entire division of collegiate football. And not in the same conference as any of the other top prospects this year

 

giphy.gif

56 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Montez Sweat is way stronger than he looks.  He's stiff as a board, but he has a rare combination of length and power that really gives people problems.

 

He got the better of Dalton Risner.  Showed him up and exposed Risner's Achilles Heel--lack of contact balance and functional power.

 

For some reason I don't love him like I love Polite and Allen.  But I see how he could end up being very good.  I think he is a safer and more talented version of Randy Gregory.  He's a first round lock and could end up being the third edge rusher off the board.

 

Risner isn't as good as I remembered from last year.  I thought he was a potential top ten talent because of how good a runner he is.  So twitchy.  He can run like a tight end and his mirror skills are first rate.  Didn't have a ton of problems beating Sweat to the edge.  But he's just not very strong.  He doesn't kick ass and real power in the trenches can son him.  He has trouble sustaining blocks against a handfighter as good as Sweat.

 

He's a good player and his skill set projects to the NFL.  I still think he's a first rounder.  His snap quickness and footspeed are first round traits.  And his ability to play all five spots on the line means almost any team can draft him.  Seems to have the mental make up you're looking for in an OL.  But it's a little disappointing to see him get picked on.  Kind of want a more physical player than him on our line.  Less finesse and more nasty.

 

TyrionLannistercheers.gif

 

Absolutely. He struggled in the sr bowl, he looks like a great guard prospect to me, but several guys got the better of him, Sweat, Ximines & Granderson each at times. The first time I watched the game the protection appeared stronger on his side than it was, Howard was the most impressive OT in the first q for me, but I’ve got 3 to go on the lines.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

not sure how this draft went from "weak at QB" to 4 QBs in the Top 10

 

tenor.gif?itemid=4888412

Link to post
Share on other sites

High praise for Harry, Bush down from 8, & Hockenson one of 3 TEs in the top 32.

 

Devin Bush - LB -  Wolverines

ESPN's Todd McShay ranks Michigan LB Devin Bush 18th in his updated top 32 prospects for the 2019 NFL Draft.

Bush takes a hard drop in McShay's latest rankings, as he was previously eighth on his board. Some of that has to do with players at the Senior Bowl rising, but some of it also could have to do with concerns about Bush's size (5'11/233) and as McShay notes, his "struggle to disengage" when blockers get into his pads. Still, it seems extremely likely that Bush will be a first-round pick, but the combine could be significant; he has to win with athleticism rather than size. 
 
 
Source: ESPN 
Jan 29 - 10:28 PM

An anonymous scout tells Bob McGinn Football that Arizona State WR N'Keal Harry reminds him of Tampa Bay Buccaneers WR Mike Evans.

The scout tells McGinn that they have a similar athletic background, and both can win with size (Harry is listed at 6'4/213). "Kind of a deceptive speed guy," the scout tells McGinn. "More of an acrobatic type receiver. From what people say at Arizona State, he’s just a terrific person." Harry has his fans -- and some who are not so sold on the wideout -- but if he gets more comps to a star like Evans, he has a chance to be among the first wideouts selected. The combine is going to be massive for him. 
 
 
Jan 29 - 10:07 PM

ESPN's Todd McShay lists Iowa TE T.J. Hockenson 16th on his updated top 32 prospects for the 2019 NFL Draft.

That makes Hockenson the highest rated tight end in McShay's board. It's also a big rise, as the 6-foot-5, 250-pounder was unranked in his previous edition. There are two other players at the position in McShay's 32: Irv Smith of Alabama at 24, and Hockenson's teammate, Noah Fant, at 28. He notes that Hockenson's "talent and toughness are obvious," and also that he can play both the F and Y position. Right now, all of the momentum seems to state that Hockenson will be the first tight end drafted. The combine, pro day, and team needs can change a lot, though. 
 
 
Source: ESPN 
Link to post
Share on other sites

So strange to read various breakdowns on Grier.  I’ve seen “possessing a lightning quick release” and “long slow release”

“feet synched up nicely with his throwing motion”, “can’t throw with zip without a set base”, “relies on his arm strength as he rarely has a good base”. 

“Inconsistent release point affecting his accuracy” and “ability to change his release point as needed”.   And, touching on both issues - “His accuracy doesn't suffer when he's off platform or forced to change arm angles.”

I literally found two different analysts break down the same play - one glowingly positive and one a clear negative.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ohio State beats PSU, MSU, & Nebraska but Haskins was grotesque in each game. Ohio State gets mauled by Purdue & Haskins made more elite throws in one game than I’ve seen from any prospect all year. He had his dropped ints & miscommunications with wide outs - but that game showed the top pick overall upside for the first time in the 4 games I’ve seen. He’s very similar to a younger Lock, ironically enough. He probably should have returned, I finally saw what others are enticed by. Ideally he’d get 500-1000 more game reps. 

 

51 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Harry being compared to Evans is strange. Evans was freakish for his size and Harry seems pretty slow in comparison, no matter how much I like him. 

 

I didn’t expect that comp at all. I haven’t watched Harry at all but if Evans was in this draft he’d be in the top 15 of every mock. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

So strange to read various breakdowns on Grier.  I’ve seen “possessing a lightning quick release” and “long slow release”

“feet synched up nicely with his throwing motion”, “can’t throw with zip without a set base”, “relies on his arm strength as he rarely has a good base”. 

“Inconsistent release point affecting his accuracy” and “ability to change his release point as needed”.   And, touching on both issues - “His accuracy doesn't suffer when he's off platform or forced to change arm angles.”

I literally found two different analysts break down the same play - one glowingly positive and one a clear negative.  

 

What I’d like to know, what do you see. Give me a game to watch. I’ve probably watched every game (sr/jr/rssoph years) of every legitimate prospect of the last 15 years, I’d love to look at a Grier game you feel showed his best, I went through a bit of Texas Tech & Texas but didn’t watch it particularly closely. 

 

We can break down every throw in any game, see what the guys & gals of the draft house take away from it.

 

Its draft season!

 

(Not the Vols game please, I don’t want to have nightmares again) 🙁

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, skinny21 said:

So strange to read various breakdowns on Grier.  I’ve seen “possessing a lightning quick release” and “long slow release”

“feet synched up nicely with his throwing motion”, “can’t throw with zip without a set base”, “relies on his arm strength as he rarely has a good base”. 

“Inconsistent release point affecting his accuracy” and “ability to change his release point as needed”.   And, touching on both issues - “His accuracy doesn't suffer when he's off platform or forced to change arm angles.”

I literally found two different analysts break down the same play - one glowingly positive and one a clear negative.  

 

What you've identified are differences in perspective.  For every prospect, you're going to see plays where their mechanics look right and plays where they mess up.  There are plays with Grier where you can absolutely see a quick release and an accurate off balance arm throw.  Those are probably the throws that the people who are saying he does those things well have in mind.  Different perspectives are why two evaluators can reach opposite conclusions after watching the same tape.  But one person's perspective is going to end up being wrong because it wasn't as broad and complete as the other's.

 

When you see something a majority of the time, then that's usually the guy telling you who he is as a player.  So getting the biggest picture you can is the real key to increasing the accuracy of evaluation.  That's why I've claimed that player evaluation is really just a gestalt analysis and getting better at evaluation really comes down to gaining experience, which increases the scope of your perspective.

 

I see a long release with consistency.  I actually see it on most of his throws.  He can and does shorten his release on the underneath stuff like his throws into the flats.  But not when he's got to drive it.  And I see him falling off a ton of throws even from the pocket.  I see ball placement suffering as a result.  I see rip throws getting swatted by the underneath coverage.

 

When you add it all up, it paints the picture that:

1 - He's got lazy feet and might have some conditioning/coordination limitations that explain his lousy pocket footwork

2 - He doesn't have the same kind of arm talent as the first round tier of QBs in the class

 

A primary way to gain perspective is to compare players to other players.  Puts them in context.  It's easier to see things like release speed/point than it is to read about them, so compare these two similar throws:

 

giphy.gif

 

 

giphy.gif

 

 

Both of these are three yard curls against off coverage with inside leverage.  Look at the difference in release speed and placement.  Look at the difference in velocity.  Look at the difference in balance as they complete the backfoot throw.  Keep in mind that Grier's throw was unpressured too, and that he's throwing boundary-side not field-side like Lock.  Lock's throw shows off what a strong arm and fast release actually looks like.  He shortened the release and changed the slot to get around the blitzer and armed the ball to the receiver on time and on the money and it gave the receiver a chance to beat the closing defender.  Grier threw an off balance duck that took too long to get there.  Plus he doesn't have the arm to throw inside against that leverage like Lock does, so he placed the ball short and outside and the receiver had zero chance to drive up field and make a play after the catch.

 

One play, I know.  But if you watch these guys long enough, you'll see the same dynamic play out over and over again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another comparison, this time between Grier and Gardner Minshew:

 

giphy.gif

 

giphy.gif

 

Look at the difference in these two rip throws on post routes.  Minshew's throwing against a blitz instead of underneath coverage, but look how much faster Minshew's release is.  And how much better his velocity and placement are.  Grier is a step late on the throw, and he isn't fast enough and strong enough to stick that throw off schedule and the rover has plenty of time to make a play on the ball.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

I'm no NFL.com writer, but not sure how this draft went from "weak at QB" to 4 QBs in the Top 10. I get that teams often reach at QBs, but 4 in the Top 10 would make it one of the "strongest" drafts ever for QBs based on draft value

 

Similar to 2011, a lot of needy teams for QBs in the top half and it also wasn't considered a strong QB class that year.  That year Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert Christian Ponder went top 12. 

 

I think FA though has to play out first.   At the moment, you got the NY Giants, Jax, Redskins, Miami, Denver all reportedly looking for QBs.  And Cincy and the Raiders maybe doing the same.

 

Personally I think 3 QBs going for sure before the 15th pick:  Haskins, Murray, Lock.  But I'd be surprised if a 4th, Jones goes before our pick.   If the Redskins FO can be patient it would be almost perfect for all those teams to take care of the QB needs this draft and we'd be in the drivers seat in the richer 2020 QB draft.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well...after looking a little more closely at all the QBs, if Lock doesn't fall to 15, id rather have Finley in the 3rd than any of the other QBs that could fall to us in the first. I went back and re-watched some Kirk in college...actually very comparable. And Finley was actually very well liked and seen as a leader :hitfan::rofl89:.  While he doesn't have any stand out traits other than maybe intelligence, he doesn't really do anything poorly either. And if I was Jay/Bruce, i'd want a QB that is ready to start, and that would be Finley. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...