2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[RabidFan]

4 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

If you wanna feel even better about this we actually let Ryan go for get this Adam Archuletta who I believe received at the time the biggest ever contract for a safety 

 

To me Archuleta's wife was worth the deal.  🤩

[skinny21]

@volsmetI’m torn on Grier regarding throwing from a good base.  He doesn’t have that ability (like Lock and Murray for instance) to just flick his arm/wrist and throw lasers regardless of a set base... not even close.  So I can see that point for sure.  On the other hand, throwing with a terrible base, he made his best throw of the year against Texas to win the game (well, the 2pt conversion won it) - just a bomb of a ball delivered to just the right spot.  Yet it’s a little different to be able to heave the ball downfield (with a poor base) vs throwing a dart in traffic, so...

 

What kind of gets me is Lock can throw darts without the set base, but his accuracy goes to hell (IMO) when he’s moving.  So which is better/worse?

 

@SkinsinparadiseYou bring up a good point about Grier - aside from deep ball accuracy (which is a nice asset), he doesn’t bring anything elite to the table - size, speed, elusiveness, arm strength, etc. - he’s more of a steady Eddie type.  The flip side is that I like that he seems solid in almost every category.  Can scramble (and keeps his eyes downfield), move in the pocket, make all the throws, read a full field, he’s accurate, ok size, very poised, can throttle back and forth between aggressivenes and taking the safe play, etc.    

So while he’s not outstanding, he’s less risky and more well rounded (IMO) compared with a guy that people say “look at his size!” or “wow, that arm strength!” while glossing over or shrugging off the weaknesses (like some, not ES it seems, are doing with Jones).  So while I get that he very likely won’t ever be a top 5 type of qb, I have to wonder if he can reach top 10-15 in most metrics (similar to our last qb).  There’s more to the story  of course - check out PFF’s rankings of qbs making ‘NFL throws’, or his qbr/YPA compared with others for example, but I’ve made my points and keep telling myself I’m not going to continue talking up the dude, lol.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@volsmet that is an incredible story. Dan Steinberg should totally do a blog on that haha

[Skinsinparadise]

It helps Washington that there’s no consensus on the quarterbacks in this class. That would limit the cost of moving to a certain draft spot, especially if a player they like gets past the seventh pick, which belongs to the QB-needy Jacksonville Jaguars. But that leads to another question: Are any of these quarterbacks worth giving up that much capital to select? If the Redskins wanted, say, Ohio State's Dwayne Haskins, they might need to move ahead of the New York Giants, who draft sixth.

Last year, the Buffalo Bills traded the 12th pick plus two second-round choices to move up five spots for quarterback Josh Allen. Arizona traded the 15th pick plus third- and fifth-round choices to the Oakland Raiders for the 10th overall pick, where the Cardinals took Josh Rosen. In 2017, Kansas City traded a third-round pick plus a future first-round selection to move from No. 27 to No. 10, where the Chiefs took Patrick Mahomes.

Perhaps the Redskins would be wiser to secure more draft capital in 2020, when the quarterback class is expected to be stronger, giving them more ammunition to move up regardless of their 2019 record.

But it’s really hard to imagine the Redskins being that aggressive this spring. This isn't the time.

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/38111/robert-griffin-iii-trade-provides-lessons-redskins-must-heed-in-2019

48 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

@SkinsinparadiseYou bring up a good point about Grier - aside from deep ball accuracy (which is a nice asset), he doesn’t bring anything elite to the table - size, speed, elusiveness, arm strength, etc. - he’s more of a steady Eddie type.  The flip side is that I like that he seems solid in almost every category.  Can scramble (and keeps his eyes downfield), move in the pocket, make all the throws, read a full field, he’s accurate, ok size, very poised, can throttle back and forth between aggressivenes and taking the safe play, etc.    

So while he’s not outstanding, he’s less risky and more well rounded (IMO) compared with a guy that people say “look at his size!” or “wow, that arm strength!” while glossing over or shrugging off the weaknesses (like some, not ES it seems, are doing with Jones).  So while I get that he very likely won’t ever be a top 5 type of qb, I have to wonder if he can reach top 10-15 in most metrics (similar to our last qb).  There’s more to the story  of course - check out PFF’s rankings of qbs making ‘NFL throws’, or his qbr/YPA compared with others for example, but I’ve made my points and keep telling myself I’m not going to continue talking up the dude, lol.  

 

Actually was talking about Rypien there.  I like Grier better than Rypien.  Grier I don't think is elite at anything either but I like his elusiveness in the pocket and playmaking when things break down. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

That ESPN blog is spot on

[Skinsinparadise]

Another post senior bowl mock.  And they all so far have Daniel Jones now out of the first round.  Doug if you are in love with Jones please fall out of love with the dude. 😀

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-mock-draft-nick-bosa-drops-from-no-1-senior-bowl-sends-dillard-samuel-omenihu-into-first-round/

[JamesMadisonSkins]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Another post senior bowl mock.  And they all so far have Daniel Jones now out of the first round.  Doug if you are in love with Jones please fall out of love with the dude. 😀

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-mock-draft-nick-bosa-drops-from-no-1-senior-bowl-sends-dillard-samuel-omenihu-into-first-round/

The Big Boards haven't really been fully updated for Post-Senior Bowl but I ran a mock on FanSpeak and for the first time accepted a trade I felt was unrealistic just to see how it played out. Colts offered me 1.26 and 2.2 for 1.15 and they took DK Metcalf ... who ironically I think that mock by CBSSports has us taking at #15.

 

Anyway, I took Hockenson as 26, Risner at 34 ... and Daniel Jones at my 2.14 pick. Doubt that's very realistic, as Risner has risen into the mid-1st range in mocks, and Hockenson is also probably gone by 26. Not sure Jones falls to 2.14 but I guess it's certainly possible.

 

It is a very deep WR class from all reports, but by the time my 3.12 came back up there weren't any "oh yeah he's the pick" guys at WR for me like there typically are in the 2.14 slot. I read somewhere a few weeks ago that Demarkus Lodge has huge upside in the NFL and he's being mocked in the 4th and 5th. Anyone have intel on him? Is he the overlooked Ole Miss WR?

[Skinsinparadise]

40 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

The Big Boards haven't really been fully updated for Post-Senior Bowl but I ran a mock on FanSpeak and for the first time accepted a trade I felt was unrealistic just to see how it played out. Colts offered me 1.26 and 2.2 for 1.15 and they took DK Metcalf ... who ironically I think that mock by CBSSports has us taking at #15.

 

Anyway, I took Hockenson as 26, Risner at 34 ... and Daniel Jones at my 2.14 pick. Doubt that's very realistic, as Risner has risen into the mid-1st range in mocks, and Hockenson is also probably gone by 26. Not sure Jones falls to 2.14 but I guess it's certainly possible.

 

It is a very deep WR class from all reports, but by the time my 3.12 came back up there weren't any "oh yeah he's the pick" guys at WR for me like there typically are in the 2.14 slot. I read somewhere a few weeks ago that Demarkus Lodge has huge upside in the NFL and he's being mocked in the 4th and 5th. Anyone have intel on him? Is he the overlooked Ole Miss WR?

 

Lodge has some hype because of his size, speed, body control.   Seen him as high as the 3rd in some mocks but typically in the 4th.  I wouldn't say he's overlooked -- he seems to get a lot of play from draft geeks in particular this guy Marino who I follow on twitter who used to play receiver and pushes himself as a WR draft guru.  He also liked Try Quinn last year as one of his late round dark horses. 

 

Zierlein here with his first mock, Kyler Murray goes #4.  Giants take Jones at #6 instead of Haskins, I'd love that.  We take Polite.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001014266/article/lance-zierlein-2019-nfl-mock-draft-10-kyler-murray-to-raiders

 

 

 

[volsmet]

I left a few underwhelming throws out, but this is what I saw from Will, he held the ball and when he had to move he threw ducks up, he’s got a limited arm, even on a roll out he didn’t complete, that’s not here (yet) he squared his shoulders & threw a change up. 

 

I could show some of what was impressive with Lock, but I am attempting to keep my posting to a limit so as not to drown anyone out. 

🤝

 

By no means does this mean Grier can’t play, but the arm isn’t there when playing off script for a top 60 pick imho.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, volsmet said:

I left a few underwhelming throws out, but this is what I saw from Will, he held the ball and when he had to move he threw ducks up, he’s got a limited arm, even on a roll out he didn’t complete, that’s not here (yet) he squared his shoulders & threw a change up. 

 

I could show some of what was impressive with Lock, but I am attempting to keep my posting to a limit so as not to drown anyone out. 

🤝

 

 

 

 

This clip was the one I was referring to in my post.  Like i was saying there is a difference in arm strength as to throwing on the move where you can't set your feet and or put your full body into a throw.  So that play shows both what I like and don't like about Grier.  I like the movement in the pocket, escaping pressure and having the moxie to make a play.  But I don't like the arm strength in that context.  He's definitely my guy if we taking a Qb in the 2nd round or later because I like him the best in that next tier.  But I'd take Murray, Haskins, Lock easily over him.

 

You watch Kyler Murray in similar situations, he's much more elusive and can throw from weird arm angles and without setting his feet with some serious mustard on his throws.  You also have to spy on Murray and keep a LB or safety in -- because if Murray scrambles it could turn into a 50 YD TD.   It's no wonder that a guy like Marquise Brown can get open because you can't really easily play cover 2 against Murray.  

[volsmet]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This clip was the one I was referring to in my post.  Like i was saying there is a difference in arm strength as to throwing on the move where you can't set your feet and or put your full body into a throw.  So that play shows both what I like and don't like about Grier.  I like the movement in the pocket, escaping pressure and having the moxie to make a play.  But I don't like the arm strength in that context.  He's definitely my guy if we taking a Qb in the 2nd round or later because I like him the best in that next tier.  But I'd take Murray, Haskins, Lock easily over him.

 

You watch Kyler Murray in similar situations, he's much more elusive and can throw from weird arm angles and without setting his feet with some serious mustard on his throws.  You also have to spy on Murray and keep a LB or safety in -- because if Murray scrambles it could turn into a 50 YD TD.   It's no wonder that a guy like Marquise Brown can get open because you can't really easily play cover 2 against Murray.  

 

I need another view to see what was there in that clip, the pressure wasn’t immediate, it looks like he had about 4 seconds vs a team he knows can’t blitz, what’s taking him so long to get the ball out, that’s not going to cut it in our division, as you know as well as anyone. The issue I have, again from this nearly, perhaps completely, nonsensical sample is that his issues compound one another, he held the ball longer than any QB & he struggles when trying to improvise - or so he did in this setting. That ball looked like a kickoff by the time it was coming down. 

 

Coming out of HS Murray looked like a 3 & done kid, I couldn’t believe he went to sit behind Mayfield, that may say something rather important about his character as we juxtapose his perceived issues with a guy who put himself before the team in DC. The guy had heisman talent, obviously, & was willing to wait & learn in college where he’s got to believe he’s one of the best few players in the game. That’s ...how do the kids say it ... low key remarkable humility. 

[mhd24]

Some good news on the Hockenson front perhaps?

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/29/report-packers-expected-to-pay-jimmy-grahams-roster-bonus/

 

The Packers need edge rush help (and this draft has it).  

 

A Good article on the both Iowa TEs:

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/29/draft-class-heroes-dispelling-iowa-tight-end-narratives/

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

I need another view to see what was there in that clip, the pressure wasn’t immediate, it looks like he had about 4 seconds vs a team he knows can’t blitz, what’s taking him so long to get the ball out, that’s not going to cut it in our division, as you know as well as anyone. The issue I have, again from this nearly, perhaps completely, nonsensical sample is that his issues compound one another, he held the ball longer than any QB & he struggles when trying to improvise - or so he did in this setting. That ball looked like a kickoff by the time it was coming down. 

 

I don't think the issue with Grier is that he has a slow release though.  I think his strength and weakness is wrapped up in the same ball -- that is, he likes to escape the pocket and try to make Superman style plays at times.  But does he have the speed and arm strength to succeed doing that in the NFL?

 

My feeling on Grier, Rypien, Stidham, T. Jackson, R. Finley is that I could ride with anyone of them in the 2nd-4th round.  But I see them all as fliers for different reasons.  Grier is my favorite from that group.  I'd probably go:  Grier, Finley, Stidham, Rypien, T. Jackson.  But they are all close to me so if someone wants to argue one over another -- its cool, I can see it.   Grier is my favorite in part because in that mx, I think he's the mostly likely to having more upside.  T. Jackson has the most upside as to raw talent but not sure how easy it will be to mold it.  But i wouldn't hate any of those choices in the later rounds.

 

For the first tier guys:

1.  Murray is my favorite.  I've explained why earlier today.

2. Haskins my next favorite -- love his size and arm 

3. Lock -- love his arm, moxie and personality

 

I don't get the love of Jones -- don't see what he does special, average arm, accuracy isn't that great, gets sacked a lot, turns the ball over -- and has absolutely zero personality.  Heck the dude even admitted himself he's no leader and leads by actions not words.    I don't even want Jones if he falls to the 2nd round. 

 

So I guess my take fits what most draft geeks think right now except that I am more down on Jones than some of them and might like Murray and Lock more than some of them.   Haskins seems to be universally embraced by most draft geeks. 

 

[volsmet]

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/28/most-likely-senior-bowl-prospects-to-go-round-1/

 

This list of guys who could go in round 1, SIP may have posted this already, but going through every pass in the sr bowl, Howard was the best tackle, Dillard got mauled several times. 

 

Howard is my take 2 winner thus far, I’ve only closely watched the first q then went through to see if the other North QBs had the same issues that Grier did & they didn’t all hold it as long, but the South offense was a well oiled machine compared to the North, Grier got unlucky with his coaches, Lock, Jones, & Finley got the far superior scheme to shine in.

 

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think the issue with Grier is that he has a slow release though.  I think his strength and weakness is wrapped up in the same ball -- that is, he likes to escape the pocket and try to make Superman style plays at times.  But does he have the speed and arm strength to succeed doing that in the NFL?

 

My feeling on Grier, Rypien, Stidham, T. Jackson, R. Finley is that I could ride with anyone of them in the 2nd-4th round.  But I see them all as fliers for different reasons.  Grier is my favorite from that group.  I'd probably go:  Grier, Finley, Stidham, Rypien, T. Jackson.  But they are all close to me so if someone wants to argue one over another -- its cool, I can see it.   Grier is my favorite in part because in that mx, I think he's the mostly likely to having more upside.  T. Jackson has the most upside as to raw talent but not sure how easy it will be to mold it.  But i wouldn't hate any of those choices in the later rounds.

 

For the first tier guys:

1.  Murray is my favorite.  I've explained why earlier today.

2. Haskins my next favorite -- love his size and arm 

3. Lock -- love his arm, moxie and personality

 

I don't get the love of Jones -- don't see what he does special, average arm, accuracy isn't that great, gets sacked a lot, turns the ball over -- and has absolutely zero personality.  Heck the dude even admitted himself he's no leader and leads by actions not words.    I don't even want Jones if he falls to the 2nd round. 

 

 

I didn’t mean to imply a slow release, I haven’t noticed that, he just processed things slowly in that limited setting, but so did the guy who was 2nd in the country in yards, a guy who completed nearly 470 passes for a pirate; Stidham held the ball too long as well, the scheme is the common denominator there. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, volsmet said:

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/28/most-likely-senior-bowl-prospects-to-go-round-1/

 

This list of guys who could go in round 1, SIP may have posted this already, but going through every pass in the sr bowl, Howard was the best tackle, Dillard got mauled several times. 

 

Howard is my take 2 winner thus far, I’ve only closely watched the first q then went through to see if the other North QBs had the same issues that Grier did & they didn’t all hold it as long, but the South offense was a well oiled machine compared to the North, Grier got unlucky with his coaches, Lock, Jones, & Finley got the far superior scheme to shine in.

 

 

I like that site a lot.  I like Ledyard from that group and source him a lot here.  I discovered him last year when I stumbled on that he shared a lot of my thoughts on draft prospects especially Guice.   So I figured since we thought alike on a lot last year, I'll trust him this year.

 

He is one of the people I've referred to when I say some people I trust tell me I shouldn't like Grier so he among others make me pause.   So I am not on the same page with him on Grier.  But boy does the dude agree with me on Daniel Jones.  Before I ever watched Jones during the college season he was tweeting about how he doesn't get the love for Jones.

 

I also like Brugler and he likes Daniel Jones.   But yeah I am with Ledyard, I don't get it.  And watching Jones in some interviews that finished him with me.   He's every bit if not even more of a boring personality than how he plays as a player.  I like Doctson more than most here so I am not saying this to slam him -- but yeah having Jones as your QB is like having a personality like Doctson at the helm at QB -- low key, soft spoken, dry, no sense of humor.    

 

[volsmet]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like that site a lot.  I like Ledyard from that group and source him a lot here.  I discovered him last year when I stumbled on that he shared a lot of my thoughts on draft prospects especially Guice.   So I figured since we thought alike on a lot last year, I'll trust him this year.

 

He is one of the people I've referred to when I say some people I trust tell me I shouldn't like Grier so he among others make me pause.   So I am not on the same page with him on Grier.  But boy does the dude agree with me on Daniel Jones.  Before I ever watched Jones during the college season he was tweeting about how he doesn't get the love for Jones.

 

I also like Brugler and he likes Daniel Jones.   But yeah I am with Ledyard, I don't get it.  And watching Jones in some interviews that finished him with me.   He's every bit if not even more of a boring personality than how he plays as a player.  I like Doctson more than most here so I am not saying this to slam him -- but yeah having Jones as your QB is like having a personality like Doctson at the helm at QB -- low key, soft spoken, dry, no sense of humor.    

 

 

If we draft Jones I’m sending the paramedics to your home. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For the first tier guys:

1.  Murray is my favorite.  I've explained why earlier today.

2. Haskins my next favorite -- love his size and arm 

3. Lock -- love his arm, moxie and personality

 

I don't get the love of Jones -- don't see what he does special, average arm, accuracy isn't that great, gets sacked a lot, turns the ball over -- and has absolutely zero personality.  Heck the dude even admitted himself he's no leader and leads by actions not words.    I don't even want Jones if he falls to the 2nd round.

 

Originally I thought Jones was going to be a great backup QB, and a quality selection with a 2nd rounder.  Lately, I'm with you, I think he falls further.

 

That said, Lock still isn't in the first tier for me.  There's too many issues in his game, and it'll take time for him to resolve.  I think he needs to sit for a year or two, and that's not our teams current situation.  If we drafted him, I don't think he develops well...he'll be tossed into the fray too early.

[Going Commando]

Grier has a long release and a limited arm and he has to set his feet up and take a big step to drive the ball and he's an older prospect.  The athleticism is solid but not anything special.  He reminds me of Colt McCoy.  He's a mid rounder and a future back up IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

If we draft Jones I’m sending the paramedics to your home. 

 

The thing is for me I can't recall ever being so fearful about them taking a dude.  The thing is they'd likely be stuck with the experiment for multiple years so you aren't only getting a Qb in 2019 but you are also likely taking yourself out of the 2020 QB pool, too.  Yuck.   I don't think I've ever had the perfect convergence of a player I vehemently don't want coupled with hearing how the team wants him.   Doug from what I hear is typically not a lead scout.  But I wonder if they trust him more when it comes to QBs -- love Doug the dude but not as a scout.  And I recall among the things Doug has bragged about over the years was how he pounded the table in Tampa for them to draft Josh Freeman.

 

I don't trust Doug on Qbs.  I know Kevin O'Connell worked for awhile in a camp with Kyler Murray -- hopefully he pounds the table for that dude.  No Jones.  😀

 

9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Grier has a long release and a limited arm and he has to set his feet up and take a big step to drive the ball and he's an older prospect.  The athleticism is solid but not anything special.  He reminds me of Colt McCoy.  He's a mid rounder and a future back up IMO.

 

I can see the Colt comparisons.  He's another dude who likes to make off schedule plays without the athleticism to always match.  I don't recall Grier having a long release.   He can hold onto the ball too long trying to make a play but that's a different thing.  From what I recall when he doesn't try to extend plays, his release was fine.   But maybe i am wrong, I have to go back and watch him again.  

 

19 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Originally I thought Jones was going to be a great backup QB, and a quality selection with a 2nd rounder.  Lately, I'm with you, I think he falls further.

 

That said, Lock still isn't in the first tier for me.  There's too many issues in his game, and it'll take time for him to resolve.  I think he needs to sit for a year or two, and that's not our teams current situation.  If we drafted him, I don't think he develops well...he'll be tossed into the fray too early.

 

Lock reputation wise has inconsistent mechanics which lead to inconsistent play and if that can be fixed -- he has the tools including a live arm-gun and decent mobility.  And as much as a I hate Jones' low key-mega bland personality for that position (definitely not a leader of men), Lock is the reverse of that.  Lock has a lot of personality-charisma -- comes off as a leader.   But like I said in a post earlier today, I wouldn't trade up for Lock.  And I doubt Lock falls to 15.

 

I think Jones likely does fall to 15.  So am guessing the choices will be trading up for Haskins or maybe Murray (Murray is all over the map in mocks) or taking Jones at 15.  Unless they run with a later round QB.  I don't think any of the 2nd round-4th round QBs end up a franchise guy but that's ok with me because my first choice is a 2020 QB. 

[Going Commando]

I keep coming back to the conclusion that the only first round QBs in this class are Murray, Lock, and Haskins, and that everyone else is a developmental guy/back up who should go day 2 or day 3.

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I can see the Colt comparisons.  He's another dude who likes to make off schedule plays without the athleticism to always match.  I don't recall Grier having a long release.   He can hold onto the ball too long trying to make a play but that's a different thing.  From what I recall when he doesn't try to extend plays, his release was fine.   But maybe i am wrong, I have to go back and watch him again.   

 

He has to wind up and really really torque his hips to rip it.  It's a function of not having the same kind of arm as the younger guys with the higher pedigrees.  The motion becomes elongated as the release point comes out lower and further in front of him.

 

And he has to have room to step into the throw.  That's part of why people are complaining about his footwork on the move.

 

I think I still like him better than Jones though.  Jones has better upside because he's bigger and more athletic and younger but he just doesn't do it for me.  Grier at least has moxie.

[Rufus T Firefly]

8 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

Just as a point of reference to Gruden's scheme...

 

<snip tweet> "Y’all need to realise Gruden has adapted his offense to RG3, Cousins, McCoy, Smith and even Josh Johnson at the end of the year. The stuff he ran with Johnson was very creative, would fit well with Murray. Many of Oklahoma’s concepts crossover with Skins..."

 

I remember this tweet from during the season and people piggy backing it with the implication that this proved what a wonderful offensive coach Gruden is. Some context:

 

RG3 washed out as a starter under Gruden.

Alex Smith had his worst season in 8 years under Gruden.

Colt McCoy had a higher QBR the first two years of his career than he ever has under Gruden.

Mark Sanchez lasted about a half as a starter under Gruden before his abysmal play caused him ti be benched.

We scored 32 points in 3 Josh Johnson starts, and his QBR and passer rating would have had him in the bottom two in the NFL (with a coupe of rookies) had he qualified.

 

Coaching a bunch of different scrubs doesn't make you a great coach. Getting something out of them, even getting a little improvement from them, would have proved something. Gruden did nothing of the sort.

[TheBlueIndian]

5 hours ago, RabidFan said:

 

To me Archuleta's wife was worth the deal.  🤩

Indeed.  My buddy used to call him Adam Archuletemscoreagain

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The thing is for me I can't recall ever being so fearful about them taking a dude.  The thing is they'd likely be stuck with the experiment for multiple years so you aren't only getting a Qb in 2019 but you are also likely taking yourself out of the 2020 QB pool, too.  Yuck.   I don't think I've ever had the perfect convergence of a player I vehemently don't want coupled with hearing how the team wants him.   Doug from what I hear is typically not a lead scout.  But I wonder if they trust him more when it comes to QBs -- love Doug the dude but not as a scout.  And I recall among the things Doug has bragged about over the years was how he pounded the table in Tampa for them to draft Josh Freeman.

 

 

I think Jones likely does fall to 15.  So am guessing the choices will be trading up for Haskins or maybe Murray (Murray is all over the map in mocks) or taking Jones at 15.  Unless they run with a later round QB.  I don't think any of the 2nd round-4th round QBs end up a franchise guy but that's ok with me because my first choice is a 2020 QB. 

 

Thats the situation I fear most, trying to prove you didn’t make a mistake, like the Jags have done with Bortles — and I believe the Bears have done with Mitch. Mitch is beloved, but from what I’ve seen, he’s not very good.

 

The Giants love Jones, Eli loves Jones & would like to mentor Jones because of Cutcliffe, that’s your out. If they keep Eli, Jones is probably their guy from the things I’ve heard, which isn’t much.

 

I don’t see Murray, Lock or Haskins getting to 8, but if the Giants grab Jones, Haskins may be the guy who falls within trade up range, but I doubt it. The good news would be Jones pushing another prospect down, hopefully we someone wants to trade up for, or Ed Oliver, who is my favorite prospect in the draft by a wide margin. 

28 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I remember this tweet from during the season and people piggy backing it with the implication that this proved what a wonderful offensive coach Gruden is. Some context:

 

RG3 washed out as a starter under Gruden.

Alex Smith had his worst season in 8 years under Gruden.

Colt McCoy had a higher QBR the first two years of his career than he ever has under Gruden.

Mark Sanchez lasted about a half as a starter under Gruden before his abysmal play caused him ti be benched.

We scored 32 points in 3 Josh Johnson starts, and his QBR and passer rating would have had him in the bottom two in the NFL (with a coupe of rookies) had he qualified.

 

Coaching a bunch of different scrubs doesn't make you a great coach. Getting something out of them, even getting a little improvement from them, would have proved something. Gruden did nothing of the sort.

 

Ouch. Jay, if you are reading this:

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think I still like him better than Jones though.  Jones has better upside because he's bigger and more athletic and younger but he just doesn't do it for me.  Grier at least has moxie.

 

Yeah if i am fired up about one thing this draft is don't draft Daniel Jones.   

 

 

10 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Thats the situation I fear most, trying to prove you didn’t make a mistake, like the Jags have done with Bortles — and I believe the Bears have done with Mitch. Mitch is beloved, but from what I’ve seen, he’s not very good.

 

The Giants love Jones, Eli loves Jones & would like to mentor Jones because of Cutcliffe, that’s your out. If they keep Eli, Jones is probably their guy from the things I’ve heard, which isn’t much.

 

I don’t see Murray, Lock or Haskins getting to 8, but if the Giants grab Jones, Haskins may be the guy who falls within trade up range, but I doubt it. The good news would be Jones pushing another prospect down, hopefully we someone wants to trade up for, or Ed Oliver, who is my favorite prospect in the draft by a wide margin. 

 

 

I think one wildcard here could be the Raiders.  They supposedly don't love Carr and could make a move.    Judging by media buzz -- Giants want Hankins.  Denver wants Lock.  Dolphins in dire need for some buzz would love Murray.   Jax might go the FA route with Foles or trade for Flacco.  

 

It's going to be an interesting ride.  Best case scenario I think would be Haskins is taken before the Giants pick.  Giants take Jones.   

 

Hard for me to see how we get Lock, Haskins, Murray without trading up.