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2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread


stevemcqueen1

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6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If I recall on this thread the only other that's in on Murray is SteveMcQueen1.  I am in too with the caveat that they get assurances somehow he's not playing baseball and I'd only trade up, a little, worst case and not big. 

 

I'm there as well.

I've stated how I think Grier is a good fit for Gruden. Elusive, good arm, accurate, yet willing to take a few chances down the field to open up the O. Seems to have "it" and has leadership skills.

So with  that^ said....I'd take Murray with #15 in a Heartbeat. He's a game changer for this O (almost any O actually) and it's possible that the reverse of Grier would happen. ie Gruden is a good HC for Murrays O. We would become a totally different team offensively. You can't contain AP, Guice, CT, and Murray without slacking on deep coverage.

So in Summation of where I stand on this years QB class

1) Murray if he's there at 15

2) Grier if he's there in 2nd

3) T.Jackson ii the 3rd (if 1 or 2 didn't happen you HAVE to spend a 3rd on a QB)

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Problem is, I don't think any player who requires scheme creativity is a good fit for Gruden. I'm not sure he's willing to adjust his play calling for any player. Not Peterson, not Alex Smith, not anyone. If the puzzle piece doesn't fit he just tries smashing it in with a hammer.

 

Murray might be an excellent QB in a system built around him that finds ways to mitigate his height issue. Gruden would have him standing like a statue and throwing blind timing routes every play.

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40 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Problem is, I don't think any player who requires scheme creativity is a good fit for Gruden. I'm not sure he's willing to adjust his play calling for any player. Not Peterson, not Alex Smith, not anyone. If the puzzle piece doesn't fit he just tries smashing it in with a hammer.

 

Murray might be an excellent QB in a system built around him that finds ways to mitigate his height issue. Gruden would have him standing like a statue and throwing blind timing routes every play.

There's some truth here, and I admit to having the same fear. But Gruden was much different in playcalling with Smith than he was with J.Johnson

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40 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Problem is, I don't think any player who requires scheme creativity is a good fit for Gruden. I'm not sure he's willing to adjust his play calling for any player. Not Peterson, not Alex Smith, not anyone. If the puzzle piece doesn't fit he just tries smashing it in with a hammer.

 

Murray might be an excellent QB in a system built around him that finds ways to mitigate his height issue. Gruden would have him standing like a statue and throwing blind timing routes every play.

You could be right Burgold.  Gruden has talked up qbs ability to extend plays (escaping the pocket), so I’m not so sure about the “statue” part, but he does have a stubbornness and belief in his system.  

 

@bowhunterYeah, Grier has a lot of the characteristics that Gruden would appreciate - ability to go through full field reads, elusiveness, aggressive downfield play, and so on.  

 

@volsmetI’ll admit (you brought this up and I just saw it echoed elsewhere), it gives me pause to hear how long Grier holds onto the ball.  I saw it in the games I watched, but it seemed more like he did it when he could - when his reads were covered, but his oline bought him plenty of time.  Of course, I only watched a handful of his cut ups, so I could have missed more egregious examples of this issue.  I was just happy he was actually going through multiple reads and had the elusiveness to buy extra time.  He didn’t really take an inordinate amount of sacks either.  But, if he legit holds onto the ball too long, that’s concerning coming into the Pros.  Coachable, but concerning.  

 

@SkinsinparadiseMurray is super intriguing, his frame was my major concern of course, but his athleticism, arm talent, stats, etc are unbelievable.  I wonder how much weight the FO would put into finding a receiver that has excelled with broken plays if we did land Murray.  He’d certainly fit the bill of bringing excitement to the offense, and therefore to the fan base.  

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Just now, skinny21 said:

You could be right Burgold.  Gruden has talked up qbs ability to extend plays (escaping the pocket), so I’m not so sure about the “statue” part, but he does have a stubbornness and belief in his system.  

Yeah, he says it, but how often does Gruden move the pocket or roll out? Jay does want a QB who can improvise after things go wrong, but he doesn't design the play that way. For the most part, Alex Smith, Colt McCoy, and Josh Johnson all seemed to be schemed exactly the same... which looked like a game plan built for Dan Marino albeit Marino in a West Coast Offense.

36 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

There's some truth here, and I admit to having the same fear. But Gruden was much different in playcalling with Smith than he was with J.Johnson

I don't think so. Not by the third game anyway. I think the first game when they they thought they  were going to play Sanchez, Johnson came in and did a lot of movement based stuff. However, as Jay began game planning for Johnson, the game plan started reverting more and more to the old Cousins' blueprint.

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1 minute ago, Burgold said:

Yeah, he says it, but how often does Gruden move the pocket or roll out? Jay does want a QB who can improvise after things go wrong, but he doesn't design the play that way. For the most part, Alex Smith, Colt McCoy, and Josh Johnson all seemed to be schemed exactly the same... which looked like a game plan built for Dan Marino albeit Marino in a West Coast Offense.

I’m more talking about escaping the pocket and buying time (or running for positive yardage).  I think that’s one of the biggest things he liked about Smith.  I get the impression that with Cousins, Smith and Colt, Gruden saw smart qbs that meshed with Gruden scheming full field reads.  He rolled Johnson out a bit more (and tried it with Sanchez too), and I’m guessing this was to simplify their reads due to an unfamiliarity with the system (and perhaps oline issues).  On the flip side, I didn’t see this same adjustment for the former three when our oline were walking wounded, so I’m not saying you don’t have a point there...

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1 hour ago, Burgold said:

Problem is, I don't think any player who requires scheme creativity is a good fit for Gruden. I'm not sure he's willing to adjust his play calling for any player. Not Peterson, not Alex Smith, not anyone. If the puzzle piece doesn't fit he just tries smashing it in with a hammer.

 

Murray might be an excellent QB in a system built around him that finds ways to mitigate his height issue. Gruden would have him standing like a statue and throwing blind timing routes every play.

 

Just as a point of reference to Gruden's scheme...

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Burgold said:

 

I don't think so. Not by the third game anyway. I think the first game when they they thought they  were going to play Sanchez, Johnson came in and did a lot of movement based stuff. However, as Jay began game planning for Johnson, the game plan started reverting more and more to the old Cousins' blueprint.

I think in that case, we have to remember that it was easier at that moment to teach one player the offense that everyone else knew. If given an entire  off-season, I think he may have evolved the Offense a little differently

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am totally cool and endorse the idea of waiting for 2020.  I am a big Tua guy, love his mobility and deep ball.   Watched him twice in person this year.  But if not him there are others.  As for this draft three guys am sold on:  Haskins, Murray, Lock.  As for wildcards, I'd ride with Grier but I am far from totally convinced he has the goods.  I am not in love with any of the other potential fliers in the 2nd-4th rounds but I'd take any of them if that keeps 2020 open for QB. 

 

PFF can be a bit hit and miss but if we are running with them, then their guy is Kyler Murray.  Murray's numbers are ridiculous using PFF's metrics.   In addition to that, among the top prospects in this draft he by far has the best QBR rating -- 95.8, best QB rating 199.2.  Many think YPA is a big stat to judge QBs, Murray is by far the leader on that too, 11.6.  

 

I get the ghosts of RG3 and all.  But heck some here (including me at the beginning of the draft process last year) were skeptics of Baker Mayfield.   Spread QBs from the big 12 have their share of skeptics.  Now I think Murray is a major misfit with Jay's offense.  But if Kevin O'Connell takes over as some say might happen -- he has experience running a spread offense.  The offense is a mess anyway right now talent wise.  And Jay is looking like a lame duck coach.  Ironically I think Murray might save his job.

 

I am perfectly ok with gambling on another Big 12 QB with serious mobility without worrying about blow back.  IMO that's what winning organizations do -- that is don't overcompensate from previous mistakes.  Some I notice in the national media love Sean McVay's line about how he and the FO like to "attack success" meaning that are willing to be bold and be aggressive without worrying about push back or failing.   As JP Finley among others like to say in the context of McVay's statement, this FO is boring and conservative.      IMO if Murray is at 15, I'd take him, if they have to leapfrog over the Dolphins without giving up much, I'd do it. 

 

I don't care if the sexiness of doing this means uncool because it comes off like an old school Redskins move.  I'd still do it.    Murray is one of the rare NFL prospects that I've watched in person and its tough not to fall for his abilities.  My main concern is his height and its taking me a bit to go all in because of the 2012 dynamic and Murray's size.  And his size still gives me some pause from a durability stand point.  But as for his height, he played behind a tall O line as is, and was able to find throwing lanes so why couldn't he do the same in the NFL.

 

If I recall on this thread the only other that's in on Murray is SteveMcQueen1 unless am forgetting some.  I am in too with the caveat that they get assurances somehow he's not playing baseball and I'd only trade up, a little, worst case and not big.  I think its unlikely he gets past the Dolphins at 13.  If they have to give up a 3rd or something like that I'd be ok with it.  I feel the same but to a lesser extent about Lock.  For Lock sounds like you got to trade up to #9 and I think that costs you best case your 2nd and worst case next year's first and I don't think I'd do that unless I'd be totally enamored.  And while I like Lock I am not enamored to that degree.

 

 

1814-All-American-First-Team-Offense.jpg

QUARTERBACK – KYLER MURRAY, OKLAHOMA

Murray was the highest-graded offensive player in all of college football this season, thanks to both the top passing and top rushing grade among all quarterbacks. His myriad of throws from both in the pocket and out are second to none this season as he was college football’s most dominant offensive player.

Second Team: Tua Tagovailoa, Alabama
Honorable Mention: Will Grier, West Virginia

 

Murray was 35:1 to win the heisman in the spring, I’m — a fan of his work. 

 

I am an advocate of signing average pro QBs until the right QB is available to draft, being stuck trying to develop a guy who doesn’t have anything is a larger concern than any other for me. I wanted to trade last years first & Trent for 2019/2020 firsts so we could be in position to get the guy we wanted more quickly, if we move back a year or two, we will certainly get a guy we love, rather than a guy we think we can work with, the distinction being everything. It’s undeniably that we’d have been better off with Matt Moore, no Smith deal, trading those assets, & being rational about where we were & how to move forward.

 

I haven’t watched nearly enough of Murray to rank him, but his talent is undeniable, few moments have irritated me more than when my Patriots loving, OU law grad, buddy found out Murray had transferred to Oklahoma. An embarrassment of riches, now they’ve added the best QB in the 2019 recruiting class, it’s hard to talk to this friend without a bottle or 6 of whiskey & 3-4 bottles of pepto.

 

Ill probably watch each of Murray’s games today, I have to do it at some point anyway, but - going in - I trust Steve will be on point. I haven’t watched much of Haskins either, my considerations are merely from the games I had on while listening to Rocky Top in preparation for real football, mighty, mighty Vol football.

 

Thorson is a guy I loved the first time I saw him, maybe as a sophomore, but he appears to have disappointed since. I look forward to seeing what he did over the last 2 seasons.

 

The Rypien thread inspired me to throw on a few of his games, unlike you I thought he had an incredible ability to navigate the pocket, but he was baited more than once - throwing the ball into coverage he didn’t see, I saw a few corners drop off their man to pick him off, guys he didn’t see at all. That said, I would put him above Grier for now, a guy as comfortable in the pocket as Rypien is a beautiful thing to behold, he’s got a decent arm, he can get the ball to the sideline 15+ yards down the field - he has some traits that appeal to me that I haven’t seen in Grier yet. Grier doesn’t appear to make any throws outside the numbers between 15-30 yards, he seems to make few attempts that aren’t over 30 or under 10. I don’t see any juice in his arm, despite positive reports on a few passes at the sr bowl. Pff loves the guy, Skinny loves the guy, I will push on with young Will. He has thrown some beautiful deep balls, but not without a 7 on 7 pocket yet, he missed several v Texas Tech, but everyone does.

 

Tua reminds me of Kellen Moore at times, he’s better, but has Moorish qualities, the ball seems to be in the air forever, I expect a safety to be waiting on it, but he hits Jeudy in stride every time. Of course, in the nfl, he won’t have better players, at every position, than his opponents — that said, a tight window is a tight window & he’s remarkable with his accuracy; I don’t know that I’ve ever seen anyone quite as special with the deep ball, but I don’t know how often he made those passes under any duress. One thing I did notice about Lock, there were a lot of drops, and many of his best throws were with pressure on him relatively quickly. He gets knocked for his completion %, but prudently throwing a ball away is a feature of the Missouri offense, he has to throw a screen or two in the dirt each game, unfortunately he didn’t take the humble approach in the rain v SC, when he threw a pick 6 on another Missouri screen that was predictable. Incidentally, he had 3 TDS dropped in that game. He also completed 3 throws @ Bama that couldn’t have had more than a 4% chance of being completed.

 

I don’t have any concerns about the ghost of RG3, I’d rather bring Rg3 back than draft someone we don’t love in round 1. I don’t fear Lock because of Ramsey, I don’t fear Kyler because of Robert. Griffin was brilliant, his ego was his undoing imo, I’d be fine with Washington making that trade again — Stl got nearly nothing out of those picks, the draft is never a certainty, if you think you’ve spotted a transcendent talent at qb, get him. Holmgren was furious with the trade, he believed his offer was superio; that is to say, we weren’t alone in our evaluation of RG. Part of why I’m a fan of trading for future picks is it makes it easier to move up, teams literally give you two firsts for one, and with firsts you can quite easily pick proven nfl talent to supplement your roster with, like Amari Cooper or Brandon Cooks. 

 

The conference a QB plays in is irrelevant to me, the coaching he gets is important, but everyone has good coaches with all the money now around in the college game. I argued with my buddy who is From NDk that Wentz should go #1, I don’t give a hoot where a guy is from, you can usually tell pretty quickly if a guy can play, even Dak was a monster, my pops was in love with Dak, I still wouldn’t pay him #1 money, but guys who are going to be good usually stand out. Jimmy G, he looked different in college, I wager the draft thread here had several who saw it. If you’re looking hard, you’re looking at a bust. That’s why my current grade on Grier would be udfa, I’m looking for the traits that translate, but unlike pff, I’m not seeing them. I watched Finley last year & all I wanted was NCSTs Oline coach.

 

I’m fairly certain Haskins will be very good, if everyone likes him, there is a reason. I’m fairly certain Murray will be very good, that talent will be incredibly difficult to defend as long as he’s healthy — and playing football. I’m fairly certain Lock will be very good, he’s relaxed in the pocket, he showed well in an uncomfortable setting in mobile, he is athletic enough to make the Trubisky runs with far superior arm talent. I’d take Lock over Mitch without thinking twice. 

 

Bill Polian had Leaf over Peyton. That’s a fact. He had to be convinced into Peyton. Trust yourself, getting guys wrong happens to the best, it’s not a simple transition to evaluate, for anyone.

 

For me, I’m trading back to 2021 and building my franchise around Lawrence. That’s the guy I’ve liked since summer 2016. For that reason, I’d be fine with drafting & starting Grier for 2 years.

 

 

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@volsmet I'm not sure I understand the desire to get rid of Trent. We've paid out all of his guaranteed money and he's an absolute stud, even when dinged up. I know he's kind of getting through the prime of his career, but we've been blssed to have gone from one franchise LT to another franchise LT (Samuels to Trent) and I don't think we should move on from Trent just yet. Hell, I'd move him to LG and draft a 1st round LT before trading him.

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53 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

You could be right Burgold.  Gruden has talked up qbs ability to extend plays (escaping the pocket), so I’m not so sure about the “statue” part, but he does have a stubbornness and belief in his system.  

 

@bowhunterYeah, Grier has a lot of the characteristics that Gruden would appreciate - ability to go through full field reads, elusiveness, aggressive downfield play, and so on.  

 

@volsmetI’ll admit (you brought this up and I just saw it echoed elsewhere), it gives me pause to hear how long Grier holds onto the ball.  I saw it in the games I watched, but it seemed more like he did it when he could - when his reads were covered, but his oline bought him plenty of time.  Of course, I only watched a handful of his cut ups, so I could have missed more egregious examples of this issue.  I was just happy he was actually going through multiple reads and had the elusiveness to buy extra time.  He didn’t really take an inordinate amount of sacks either.  But, if he legit holds onto the ball too long, that’s concerning coming into the Pros.  Coachable, but concerning.  

 

@SkinsinparadiseMurray is super intriguing, his frame was my major concern of course, but his athleticism, arm talent, stats, etc are unbelievable.  I wonder how much weight the FO would put into finding a receiver that has excelled with broken plays if we did land Murray.  He’d certainly fit the bill of bringing excitement to the offense, and therefore to the fan base.  

 

Absolutely. Getting rid of the ball too early can be as undesirable as getting rid of it too late, in the sr bowl he looked like a fan who won the opportunity to play in the sr bowl, but he wasn’t in the same scheme Lock was in. In college he had time & took it; doing so nearly got WVU in the playoff race without much defense. He was brilliant. So far I haven’t seen him deal with much pressure or many disguised coverages, and disguise only works if the fear, if not the presence, of pressure exists. 

 

Unlike Lock, Grier needs his base nearly, if not entirely, perfect to make accurate throws with any zip, that’s an enormous difference in the NFL where guys have to make plays with Fletcher Cox pushing their line back 5 yards in the blink of an eye; not to mention — a floating football in the nfl, is 6 the other way. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@volsmet I'm not sure I understand the desire to get rid of Trent. We've paid out all of his guaranteed money and he's an absolute stud, even when dinged up. I know he's kind of getting through the prime of his career, but we've been blssed to have gone from one franchise LT to another franchise LT (Samuels to Trent) and I don't think we should move on from Trent just yet. Hell, I'd move him to LG and draft a 1st round LT before trading him.

 

What blessings has he bestowed upon us in recent years, Smith is nearly dead & his backup in a cast. What gifts did Joe Thomas bring to Cleveland? I absolutely love Trent, when he smacked Sherman my heart grew 3 sizes, but he won’t be the starting LT on a Redskins team that wins a SB. He is the one piece that could return pieces that will expedite the process of building a legitimate super bowl contender. I don’t understand why anyone was in favor of keeping him last year or this. Why? He’s more likely to get injured every year, we aren’t contending, he’s shown a propensity to smoke weed & 1 more failed test gets him a years suspension (I believe), he’s not as good as he was, he can bring back elite draft capital. What do we need with a Lamborghini when we can’t afford our rent, or milk. Sell the lambo, invest that glorious asset before you run it into a tree.

 

Cleveland holding on to Joe Thomas is nice for the heart, but it was an atrocious decision, made repeatedly, by an atrocious organization. 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@volsmet I'm not sure I understand the desire to get rid of Trent. We've paid out all of his guaranteed money and he's an absolute stud, even when dinged up. I know he's kind of getting through the prime of his career, but we've been blssed to have gone from one franchise LT to another franchise LT (Samuels to Trent) and I don't think we should move on from Trent just yet. Hell, I'd move him to LG and draft a 1st round LT before trading him.

I wouldn't get rid of him either but I believe the thinking is to get maximum value from him before he starts declining since he is in his 30s now. I'd prefer to keep him as elite linemen are hard to come by.

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1 minute ago, nonniey said:

I wouldn't get rid of him either but I believe the thinking is to get maximum value from him before he starts declining since he is in his 30s now. I'd prefer to keep him as elite linemen are hard to come by.

I suppose. But I also think there's a deflated market for veterans that make a lot of money. Shoot, look at what a rookie-scale Marcus Peters got the Chiefs (and he was young). I just don't think you're trading Trent for a 1st rounder. A team is just going to invest a 1st in a young OT that they can pay below-market wages to. Trent is a Skins lifer, so I'm just writing off the scenario all-together.

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I want Devin White at 15 if he's available. Our DL is good enough to keep our LB's clean on running plays, and Rueben Foster + Devin White could make for an incredible combo. Both have elite level play making ability and sideline to sideline speed. I can't remember the last time we had that from our LBs.

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7 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I suppose. But I also think there's a deflated market for veterans that make a lot of money. Shoot, look at what a rookie-scale Marcus Peters got the Chiefs (and he was young). I just don't think you're trading Trent for a 1st rounder. A team is just going to invest a 1st in a young OT that they can pay below-market wages to. Trent is a Skins lifer, so I'm just writing off the scenario all-together.

 

Nate Solder was treated like a king, he’s not particularly good & he’s a bit older than Trent. Rumor had it Washington could have received 2 #1s a year ago. A first + is likely still available, though Trent wasn’t good last year, teams are desperate to protect their Watson’s.

 

Oakland was offering their first + a year ago, Jon thought he was going to win the Sb.

 

Trent was on a better deal than Solder, as, what teams thought to be, a far superior player. 

 

Nate Solder broke the market. 

 

Nate — Solder.

 

Nate

 

Solder.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, volsmet said:

if we move back a year or two, we will certainly get a guy we love, rather than a guy we think we can work with, the distinction being everything. It’s undeniably that we’d have been better off with Matt Moore, no Smith deal, trading those assets, & being rational about where we were & how to move forward.

 

 

Agree, hated the deal at the time.  And it came off even worse than I expected and by that I don't just mean the injury.  

 

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

 

Ill probably watch each of Murray’s games today, I have to do it at some point anyway, but - going in - I trust Steve will be on point. I haven’t watched much of Haskins either, my considerations are merely from the games I had on while listening to Rocky Top in preparation for real football, mighty, mighty Vol football.

 

 

I've watched a lot of Haskins and Murray last season.  I like them both.  I don't like Haskins though as much as Tua.  Both have a small sample size-career and that's part of the concern. 

 

Part of why I like Grier is I like QBs who can make something out of nothing when you got chaos happening and you have to escape the pocket and make a play.   But one of the reasons why I just like Grier on that front and don't love him is his athleticism doesn't seem special and even in college -- defenders can catch Grier as he tries to make a play and saddle him with a big loss.  Plus does he have the arm strength to make great throws off balance?

 

To me there is a key difference in judging arm strength when it comes to off balance throws versus having ones where you have time to set your feet and put your body into the throws.  Heck in the Senior Bowl, you could see it on one play where Grier escaped the pocket to his left and flung the ball to an open receiver.  The pass was completed but the ball just floated in the air without much speed on it and could easily be picked off.  So loved the Grier trying to make something out of nothing moxie -- but wonder if he has the talented to get away with throws like that in the pros.  

 

I am guessing why there is so much discrepancy from people talking about Grier's arm strength (some saying he has it some saying not) is because of the differences between stepping into throws versus not.  I know from playing sports myself (non-professionally obviously) when I am playing in the outfield my arm is much stronger when I can build momentum to my throws and use my whole body -- versus lets say a great armed shortstop who can just fling the ball with mustard via their arm motion alone.  To that point, some say Mahomes baseball experience is part of the reason why he's so good at throwing off balance and with weird arm angles.  Some say the same about Murray.

 

Murray is an absolute freak when a play breaks down.  He has incredible foot speed and is elusive a QB as I've ever seen.  And as for a thrower, he actually to me has noticeably more arm strength than Grier when he throws off balance.    He can do the Mahomes style weird arm angle thing.  I posted the other day a throw where he threw the ball downfield like 40 yards with a flick of the wrist.

 

I am using Grier as a reference point because for me thinking about what I like about him, the wherewithal to make plays when things break down -- Murray is an easy reference of comparison because IMO Murray does all of that same stuff and clearly is much better at it than Grier.  

 

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

 

The Rypien thread inspired me to throw on a few of his games, unlike you I thought he had an incredible ability to navigate the pocket, but he was baited more than once - throwing the ball into coverage he didn’t see, I saw a few corners drop off their man to pick him off, guys he didn’t see at all. That said, I would put him above Grier for now, a guy as comfortable in the pocket as Rypien is a beautiful thing to behold, he’s got a decent arm, he can get the ball to the sideline 15+ yards down the field - he has some traits that appeal to me that I haven’t seen in Grier yet. Grier doesn’t appear to make any throws outside the numbers between 15-30 yards, he seems to make few attempts that aren’t over 30 or under 10. I don’t see any juice in his arm, despite positive reports on a few passes at the sr bowl. Pff loves the guy, Skinny loves the guy, I will push on with young Will. He has thrown some beautiful deep balls, but not without a 7 on 7 pocket yet, he missed several v Texas Tech, but everyone does.

 

 

I'll start with scouts say figuring out college QBs is the hardest thing they do and they get it wrong a lot.  So I am just winging it for fun.  I've been wrong on some QBs and right on others.  I have a better record of calling what QBs won't work out than I have which will.  But hit and miss on both.  As for Grier I haven't really watched him closely since the Oklahoma game so I have to refresh and maybe my mind will change.

 

As for Rypien I just watched 2 games so I'll watch more.  The old me would love Rypien because I was in love with QBs who were accurate first and foremost and look pro ready in that regard.  But I've become really into having QBs with some special traits or at least one -- strong arm, mega elusive in the pocket, mega consistency -- something.  And It's tough for me to see what that is with Rypien.   Rypien also played against a weak schedule compared to some of the others in this draft.  

 

Out of the 8 QBs I've started to compare stats to and chart, I'll put it on this thread soon, Rypien has the lowest QBR rating. I am trying to find fumbles so far no luck.  But as for negatives plays combining sacks and INTs -- Rypien is last on that too among the 8.    His frame also reminds me of Colt McCoy. 

 

I think the floor on Rypien is high meaning I doubt he's a bust -- high level backup or marginal starter is what I think.  Heck i think he might even be able to compete and beat out Colt McCoy.  But I don't want the next Casey Keenum.  I want a dude who can be a top 10 QB potentially and I don't see that ever with Rypien.  But I could be dead wrong.

 

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

 

For me, I’m trading back to 2021 and building my franchise around Lawrence. That’s the guy I’ve liked since summer 2016. For that reason, I’d be fine with drafting & starting Grier for 2 years.

 

 

 

Lawrence looks special.  But I doubt they even have the patience to wait until 2020 let alone 2021.  I am ok as I said with drafting Grier, Rypien, T. Jackson later in the draft.  I doubt any of them end up the answer though.

 

My #1 fear is the FO feels desperate at QB and talks themselves into a guy.  My number one fear is Daniel Jones at #15.  And his subpar Senior Bowl I think makes that fear a potential reality.   That's the guy some in the national media think the Redskins like.  And I can't think of a draft pick I'd hate more than that one. 

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40 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@volsmet I'm not sure I understand the desire to get rid of Trent. We've paid out all of his guaranteed money and he's an absolute stud, even when dinged up. I know he's kind of getting through the prime of his career, but we've been blssed to have gone from one franchise LT to another franchise LT (Samuels to Trent) and I don't think we should move on from Trent just yet. Hell, I'd move him to LG and draft a 1st round LT before trading him.

 

Trent Williams is a special player.  It's not his age that anyone is concerned about but rather his injury history and the number of games missed each year.  He hasn't played a full season since 2013.  Do you want to pay 10+ million for a special player that you can plan on contributing maybe 8 games per year?  Or, do you try to get the maximum return in a trade now?  You could assess his medical history and determine whether he's more likely to play a full season if he's shifted to Guard.  If the answer is yes then do you try to maximize his longevity and production for the team?  Or do you keep him at OT and hope that five years of history is an aberration?  Let's say that the medical staff says that moving him to Guard means that he's more likely to contribute a full season and it could add a couple of years to his career.  What do you do if a top OT prospect is available when the Skins ultimately pick in the first round?  If I'm going to keep a 10 million a year player with an injury history I'd rather it be Trent Williams than Jordan Reed.  But I wouldn't hesitate to move him to Guard anytime the team can pick up a replacement.  

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@PlayAction Oh I'm on board with this as well. I think you also wait and see how Geron Christian develops. There's a chance if he had gone back to Louisville like many thought he should have done, that he'd be in the 1st round discussion this year. I also think you can hit the OT position later in this year's draft to replace Nsheke. Having 2 young OTs doesnt meant you get rid of Trent or that they're his heir apparent. I do think that you replace Trent by moving him to LG or moving on fro him after this contract, and at that time, you draft an LT to immediately fill that void.

 

If this off-season, Geron Christian is looking primed to be a high-end starter at LT, then I consider moving Trent to LG or trading him. But only in that scenario.

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1 hour ago, volsmet said:

For me, I’m trading back to 2021 and building my franchise around Lawrence. That’s the guy I’ve liked since summer 2016. For that reason, I’d be fine with drafting & starting Grier for 2 years.

 

 

2016!  What was he a sophomore in HS?  If Lawrence continues on his current trajectory he's going to be in the running for the #1 pick and I don't think any team is going to want to trade out of that even if they already have a franchise QB.  Skins are a bad team but they are not 0-16 bad.

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I should note, I love disagreement. I don’t know more than anyone here, I’m certainly not more intelligent than anyone here, I am genuinely fascinated by everyone’s honest considerations, I believe certain things to be true, but that doesn’t mean I know them to be true — holding on to Trent & drafting Grier could be precisely what we need. I don’t care if I’m right or wrong, the information & unique insights/analysis/thoughts/feelings are things I gain from with every post I read. I have tremendous respect for each person willing to put their opinions on display for dissecting - I am more knowledgeable for being in the presence of those who dwell in the house that Steve built.

 

 

I only say say as much because I can be a tad opinionated & I loathe that about myself. 

 

anigif_enhanced-buzz-24345-1357763328-8.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Burgold said:

Maybe I'm wrong. I just remember Gruden being very predictable and unimaginative... and that never really changed.

 

I feel the same way about Gruden in that he believes his system is great and any issue is the execution of it by the players.  He doesn't adjust to their strengths as much as he could and we know he makes no halftime adjustments at all.  He just plows ahead thinking his gameplan will work no matter what the other team does.

 

This was also how I felt about Gregg Williams when here when he was so arrogant about his system that he thought he could replace anyone and plug them in with the same success. ex Antonio Pierce (let leave for less that $500k annual, and Ryan Clark let go for a flashy roided Laron Landry).  What horrible moves. 

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27 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

2016!  What was he a sophomore in HS?  If Lawrence continues on his current trajectory he's going to be in the running for the #1 pick and I don't think any team is going to want to trade out of that even if they already have a franchise QB.  Skins are a bad team but they are not 0-16 bad.

 

I don’t even know what to do with a domain, but I’ve had a godfather/uncle thats coached QBs in college/nfl my entire life so I take more interested in watching them than is natural. When I saw Lawrence it was like the heavens opening up for me & me alone, what freakin talent, the feel for the position, the arm, the....everything made him something entirely unique to me.

 

So, I did the rational thing, I bought a domain, that I’ll obviously just give to him.

 

tenor.gif?itemid=3558954

FFA8B865-D7D1-4B76-A06F-90EE3AAD7DF0.jpeg

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5 minutes ago, RabidFan said:

 

I feel the same way about Gruden in that he believes his system is great and any issue is the execution of it by the players.  He doesn't adjust to their strengths as much as he could and we know he makes no halftime adjustments at all.  He just plows ahead thinking his gameplan will work no matter what the other team does.

 

This was also how I felt about Gregg Williams when here when he was so arrogant about his system that he thought he could replace anyone and plug them in with the same success. ex Antonio Pierce (let leave for less that $500k annual, and Ryan Clark let go for a flashy roided Laron Landry).  What horrible moves. 

If you wanna feel even better about this we actually let Ryan go for get this Adam Archuletta who I believe received at the time the biggest ever contract for a safety 

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