stevemcqueen1

2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

that was my guy along with Fitzpatrick and Guice in the last draft

 

Derwin James has been the highest graded defensive rookie in the NFL so far this season.

 

PFF is meh, but I am curious about Derwin.  I thought he was scheme limited, but had potential to be really good within that scheme.  Need to catch a Chargers game sometime this season.

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5 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

At this time, not a QB in 1-3 but one in 4-7.  You need to start looking for late round guys now.  The Pats selected a QB in the draft almost every year even while Brady was in his prime. While Farve was in his prime, the Pack kept looking at QBs late.  True, we probably don't use a high pick until 2020 (probably would allow the new guy a season or two to develop) but, as with Hogan this year (who was basically equivalent to using a late pick this year), we need to keep playing the numbers.

 

How many QB's did those teams keep on the roster usually?  We only kept 2 this year and we only kept 2 in 2017.  The last time we kept 3 was in 2016.

 

Let's say we kept 3 QB's this year, who do we cut?  Odds are it's one of the rookie corners.  Stroman, Adonis, or Johnson.  With Norman's age, do we want to cut a rookie corner to keep a 3rd string late round QB, or do we want an extra guy to see if we can develop them.

 

Some corners do well post-30 (such as Darrell Green, Barber, Woodson, Bailey), but others fall off quickly (Revis, Cromartie, Asomugha, DeAngelo Hall).  What happens to Norman?  No clue, but it's something to think about.

Edited by Alcoholic Zebra

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9 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

Ugh been super busy. Can anybody give me to deep draft position classes and the small ones? Looks to me like the early deep classes are dline OT and WR. 

Not a bad place to be deep for us this year.  Gotta get the heir apparent to Trent Williams and we also need to look to continue stocking our DL with depth.  May need to find a replacement for Doctson as well - underwhelming performance thus far in what should be his breakout year.

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16 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

PFF is meh, but I am curious about Derwin.  I thought he was scheme limited, but had potential to be really good within that scheme.  Need to catch a Chargers game sometime this season.

 

A lot of buzz about Derwin irrespective of PFF, started back in the preseason.  Jack of all trades, master of most.  Leader.   Athletic freak.   

 

Derwin James positional snap count breakdown so far this year (@PFF? • D-Line: 11 • Box Safety: 37 • Nickel CB: 13 • Outside CB: 1 • Free Safety: 53 Versatility.

 

  1.  
  2.  

    Los Angeles Chargers rookie safety Derwin James is currently on pace to finish the season with 101 tackles, 11 sacks, 5 INTs, and 21 PBUs...

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57 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Could’ve had Hankins/James...

 

Wouldn't take that over Payne, safety is a much less impactful position. Allen and Payne will be the cornerstones of our D. 

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3 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

Wouldn't take that over Payne, safety is a much less impactful position. Allen and Payne will be the cornerstones of our D. 

Yes and with 11 picks in this year's draft it gives us plenty of opportunity to address weaknesses and the flexibility to perhaps trade up for more impact.

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On 9/27/2018 at 10:45 PM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Some corners do well post-30 (such as Darrell Green, Barber, Woodson, Bailey), but others fall off quickly (Revis, Cromartie, Asomugha, DeAngelo Hall).  What happens to Norman?  No clue, but it's something to think about. 

 

Corner has the shortest shelf life for dominance.  Especially for super aggressive zone and bump and run corners.  Guys get locked in for like two or at most three years right before they lose a step where the game slows down for them and their confidence is off the charts and receivers and QBs are at their mercy.  And they're the best defensive backs in the league during that run.  Then that step is gone and they can no longer play the way that made them so dominant.  Exact same progression happened with Asomugha to Woodson to Revis to Sherman to Norman.

 

Chris Harris seems to have continued playing at a high level for many years but he plays most of his snaps inside now.  Maybe that's the roadmap to keeping Norman playing at a high level since he's aged and slowed and had the injuries start to pile up?

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6 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Could’ve had Hankins/James...

 

Or Richardson and James.

 

5 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

Wouldn't take that over Payne, safety is a much less impactful position. Allen and Payne will be the cornerstones of our D. 

 

To be consistent I would have taken James over Payne and said so when it went down.  I like Payne. And I am obsessed with the D line and love myself some Alabama players -- so its not as if I don't get the value to that pick. And I like the D line with him on it so I don't have sour grapes about it today.   But funny enough when they picked Payne it was a gut punch for me -- a lot of that had to do with Keim and beat guys who kept saying the FO loves Fitzpatrick and James and would pick either one if available including over Vea or Payne.  So i was shocked a little by the pick even though we were linked a lot to Payne, too.  Doug later said there was disagreement in the draft room, not everyone agreed on Payne. 

 

James to me has the makings of superstar. Louis Reddick who if I recall was part of the team that scouted Sean Taylor said recently he has been gun shy over the years to compare anyone to Sean until he saw Derwin play this season.  The dude isn't just a safety, he rushes the passer, playmaker, pays nickel -- the rep of being also a big time locker room leader.  He and Fitzpatrick were the swiss army knives in the draft, Fitzpatrick is getting a lot of good play here in South Florida. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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James and Fitzpatrick are special, but so is Payne.  Payne will never get the glory that they do because his impact isn't captured in stats.  He's an interior tackle on three man lines.  But his impact is huge.  We went from a crap defense to a top five defense the moment he put on our jersey.  The impact that he and Jonathan Allen are already having is freakish.

 

I think Allen has a chance to get stats because he's going to play outside more and he just has a special nose for finishing plays.  So I can see him being the rare 3-4 DL who gets some national glory like JJ Watt and Justin Smith.  I don't see that happening for Payne.  I think he's going to spend his prime years mashing in the middle and controlling the line of scrimmage in obscurity while playing for defenses that are ranked in the top five every year.

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57 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I think he's going to spend his prime years mashing in the middle and controlling the line of scrimmage in obscurity while playing for defenses that are ranked in the top five every year.

 

If this is a top 5 defense in perpetuity while they Alabama boys are here and Payne has a lot to do with it, sign me up for that.  But will see.  I liked Payne.  He's the first guy I mentioned in the draft thread last year way back in September.  But didn't love him the way I loved Jonathan Allen or D. James or Fitzpatrick.    PFF is far from the be all and end all but they rank for example Damon Harrison who serves in that same run stuffing, control double team role, 0-1 technique -- as a rock star level good including this year -- they've ranked Payne way below Harrison so far this year.   

 

Having said that, i liked how Payne has played.  But yeah if he turns into an elite level NT, I've wanted that for years.  My position on Payne is odder than most.  I didn't see him in college as an elite run stuffer albeit he was very good.  But I do think he's pass rushing ability was underrated.  I think he can play 3 technique just like Allen and wreak some havoc.  He has quick burst for his size, quick hands, strong as heck.  He's definitely more of an athlete than Allen so lots of potential where Tomsula might be able to make him special.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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While James might be the better individual player, I'm thinking that Payne may do more than James could have in the effort to make our entire defense better.  Could Hankins or Richardson have done that?  Not so sure.  Payne adds to the chemistry of a team built through the draft.  Don't get me wrong...I love James, and I wish we had him too, but I'm good with Montae.  

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5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If this is a top 5 defense in perpetuity while they Alabama boys are here and Payne has a lot to do with it, sign me up for that.  But will see.  I liked Payne.  He's the first guy I mentioned in the draft thread last year way back in September.  But didn't love him the way I loved Jonathan Allen or D. James or Fitzpatrick.    PFF is far from the be all and end all but they rank for example Damon Harrison who serves in that same run stuffing, control double team role, 0-1 technique -- as a rock star level good including this year -- they've ranked Payne way below Harrison so far this year.   

 

Having said that, i liked how Payne has played.  But yeah if he turns into an elite level NT, I've wanted that for years.  My position on Payne is odder than most.  I didn't see him in college as an elite run stuffer albeit he was very good.  But I do think he's pass rushing ability was underrated.  I think he can play 3 technique just like Allen and wreak some havoc.  He has quick burst for his size, quick hands, strong as heck.  He's definitely more of an athlete than Allen so lots of potential where Tomsula might be able to make him special.

Dave Butz.  Until is last year, we really had no other big investment in our front 7 from 1980 to 1988 and was our starter from 1976-1988.  Our linebackers were late picks and UDFAs! He never put up big numbers stats-wise, except for 1983.  He cost us two firsts and a second (although he was technically a FA due to a contract error by the Cards).

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LOL, I could debate the James-Payne stuff more but I am not that interested. I like Payne.  I just liked Derwin James more and still do.  And its not because I don't value or understand the value of a 0-1 technique -- a fill 2 gap type to set others to make plays.  I've probably whined about our lack of a real nose tackle as much as anyone including explaining the value of a 0-1 technique.  I get it.  It's simply that I am a BPA freak and James to me is a superstar in the making.  Maybe over time I change my mind about it but either way its no big deal.  

 

Speaking of the D line Anyone watching Mississippi State game?   Sweat with another good game.  

 

  1. Montez Sweat drawing penalties all game. Florida can’t block him

     
  2.  

    Montez Sweat vs Martez Ivey ain’t a fair fight

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Montez Sweat reminds me of Randy Gregory but with a much better motor.  He's all length.  Very tough to deal with when he lands his hands on you.

 

First step is unimpressive and twitch is mediocre.  But he is very light on his feet and very good at redirecting back inside after the initial lane to the outside gets cut off.    Skill set a basketball athlete rather than a football athlete.

 

Much stronger than he looks.  Plays with violent hands.  Speed to power potential looks decent.

 

Arm length is probably the best in the class among edge rushers.

 

Looks like he has the tools to set a solid edge when he gets into the NFL and gets stronger.

 

Solid pass rushing instincts.  Lots of successful counters.  Does a good job finding the quarterback and getting him down.  He's so tall he can see over linemen easily.

 

Right now my take is that he is a good but not great edge rushing prospect.  My initial impression is that he's a late first round talent but I need to see more of him from this season.

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Are there any light skinned brotha QBs we can draft to develop for a year behind Smith? See: Colin Kaepernick(stud early on)and Pat Maholme now....

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36 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Are there any light skinned brotha QBs we can draft to develop for a year behind Smith? See: Colin Kaepernick(stud early on)and Pat Maholme now....

What???

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8 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Are there any light skinned brotha QBs we can draft to develop for a year behind Smith? See: Colin Kaepernick(stud early on)and Pat Maholme now....

 

Not sure if Tua qualifies but I'll gladly take him on the team in the future.

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On 9/27/2018 at 9:14 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

that was my guy along with Fitzpatrick and Guice in the last draft

 

Derwin James has been the highest graded defensive rookie in the NFL so far this season.

 

Its astonishing that he reached us, much less SD. Humans...

 

That said, if we were intelligent we would have let Kirk go, signed Matt Moore or any other QB, traded Trent to Houston for 2 firsts, traded last years first to N.O. for their 2018 & 2019 firsts, traded the remaining 2018 firsts for firsts + in 2019 and we would have the assets to build an incredible core on rookie contracts. But, we are going stupid, we are a team run like all others, we aggressively pursue mediocrity. This is incredibly obvious and simple, it’s easily doable, it’s much better than what we are presently doing, but, we need to play 16 competitive games, we can’t do anything to disturb the norms, or Frazier’s.

 

You guys are lucky I wasn’t posting while we let Mcvay go and failed to go up a few spots to get Watson. I’d be bringing you fine folks SBs for decades. Not trading Trent Williams will prove to be just as stupid as not keeping McVay. 

 

I lost a lot of good remote controls when we passed on Derwin James, but we should have bailed on 2018 and loaded up on the unbelievable class of 2019...while keeping Fuller, and our 3rd. 

 

I look forward to discussing who we will pick at 18 for the next 5 years with you guys. One of those years, we will find a guard. The redskins are the wizards, the wizards are the redskins, we are DC. 

 

———————-

Olamide Zaccheaus - doing big things as predicted on the most extreme of skins forums. 

Edited by volsmet
The Fertile Crescent

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On 9/29/2018 at 9:57 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Or Richardson and James.

 

 

To be consistent I would have taken James over Payne and said so when it went down.  I like Payne. And I am obsessed with the D line and love myself some Alabama players -- so its not as if I don't get the value to that pick. And I like the D line with him on it so I don't have sour grapes about it today.   But funny enough when they picked Payne it was a gut punch for me -- a lot of that had to do with Keim and beat guys who kept saying the FO loves Fitzpatrick and James and would pick either one if available including over Vea or Payne.  So i was shocked a little by the pick even though we were linked a lot to Payne, too.  Doug later said there was disagreement in the draft room, not everyone agreed on Payne. 

 

James to me has the makings of superstar. Louis Reddick who if I recall was part of the team that scouted Sean Taylor said recently he has been gun shy over the years to compare anyone to Sean until he saw Derwin play this season.  The dude isn't just a safety, he rushes the passer, playmaker, pays nickel -- the rep of being also a big time locker room leader.  He and Fitzpatrick were the swiss army knives in the draft, Fitzpatrick is getting a lot of good play here in South Florida. 

 

Give me Derwin. I love DP, but I would make that trade in no time. 

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Josh Allen out of Kentucky has become my favorite prospect between the 12-20+ draft pick range which is our range this year I think. He's kind of a hybrid guy at Kentucky but his bread in butter seems to be getting after the QB. I think if that was his primary job at Kentucky he could easily have 13-15 sack seasons at the college level. Looks very fluid and wouldn't be a liability really on any down. Plus the thought of having a Josh and Jonathan Allen would be kinda cool. He was a 2-star prospect, these types of guys who progress at a rapid pace like this as players tend to be good gambles. Means he's hungry to be great and he works his tail off. 

Edited by Burgundy Yoda

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