stevemcqueen1

2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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One guy on twitter saying Grier is missing a lot of passes today. Just got to watch Grier throw a couple of passes, missed both.  Though some saying it looks like he has a live arm for those watching him on the field so that's good for him.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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50 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Speaking of that, holy crap Drew Lock has some SMALL hands. 9 inches for a guy who's north of 6'3 1/2 is crazy.

 

That's a deal breaker for some teams.  I think I've read that some teams take QB's off the board with hand size under 9 & 1/4.  There are several beliefs around it, one is fumbling issues, QB's tend to not just lose more fumbles but in such a way that the defense often recovers.  Another is smaller hands means "can't play in bad weather".  Another is worse accuracy in general.

 

Derek Carr, Eli Manning, Jared Goff, and Case Keenum all fall below that category.

 

Shorter QB's with hand size at 10+ inches.  Drew Brees and Russell Wilson.

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46 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Good lord that QB from Buffalo is massive! 

 

His arm is live and his placement is very good.  

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Jackson easily slung it 60yrds in that vid and in stride.  Then i thought, can he move?  had some moves and speed too.   Looks like a mobile Big Ben.   if we could get him on day 2 or 3 that would be great.  Of course if he lights it up at the combine he'll go to NE at end of 1st.

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1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

That's a deal breaker for some teams.  I think I've read that some teams take QB's off the board with hand size under 9 & 1/4.  There are several beliefs around it, one is fumbling issues, QB's tend to not just lose more fumbles but in such a way that the defense often recovers.  Another is smaller hands means "can't play in bad weather".  Another is worse accuracy in general.

 

Derek Carr, Eli Manning, Jared Goff, and Case Keenum all fall below that category.

 

Shorter QB's with hand size at 10+ inches.  Drew Brees and Russell Wilson.

 

Pat Mahomes may help quell concerns. 

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17 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I can't believe how close Lock is to Tua here. Funny that Lock rates better than Fromm, but people on the board would rather have Fromm than Haskins. 

 

 


 

 

Precisely. 

 

People around here will come around on Lock, unfortunately he won’t be there for us, because we were too obtuse to Trade Trent last year & trade last years 1. That’s why you plan ahead. 

9 hours ago, SemperFi Skins said:

I will go on record saying I believe Ed Oliver will have the biggest impact out of this upcoming draft... Somehow I hope he lasts til 15... I understand he's not a perfect 3-4 fit, however, we are in 4-2-5 the majority of the time. 

 

Ideal situation, 3-tech in a 4-3.

 

 

Agreed. If he’s not gone by 5 it would be even more absurd than Derwin not going in the top 10. 

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On 1/19/2019 at 3:07 PM, Anselmheifer said:


I might be starting to fall in line with the guys who want to suck this year for 2020. Not because I think the 2020 guys are better than Haskins, but because I think we have a chance to really solidify our defense and if we are bad enough next year, we will be choosing in a more natural QB range. It's just a better long term use of resources if you wind up with a QB that is just as good. I'm still not convinced that Tua is better than Haskins. And I think Haskins is significantly better than Fromm and Herbert. 

In terms of resource allocation, I think that teams find CB's with much more ease in the later rounds. Maybe it's just my mistaken impression, but I feel like most 12 sack pass rushers are first round guys. I think I'd be inclined to draft Polite over Murphy if their grade is equal, just based on positional value. I think Murphy is the better player though, honestly, and also fits a need. Thoughts?

 

edit: Most of these guys were higher picks. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/sacks/seasontype/2

 

 

27C37F59-5A04-4FC8-A499-98C6C6805E8B.gif

On 1/19/2019 at 3:10 PM, IrepDC said:

 

 

If BPA is someone like Daylon Mack DL, or Takitaki MLB, I would draft them. They are game changers.

 

 

 

 

807C058A-4BE3-4DE4-89DD-224CADF1CFC3.gif

On 1/19/2019 at 3:15 PM, pcbothwel said:

 

The problem is I just dont think we will be bad enough. Our Oline and D line are pretty good. Add in a possible Guice/Peterson/Thompson backfield, and I dont see losing more than 10 games. I dont think we'd win more than 8, but my point still stands. 

 

Trade Trent. Our coaching staff is below average, we have no QB, we can’t score, we could easily find our way to 10+ losses. Our defense is likely to spend a lot of time on the field.

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On 1/20/2019 at 12:58 AM, RWJ said:

I don't think Grier makes it to our 2nd round pick.  We would need to trade down and gather extra picks like your saying, S21.

 

I haven’t looked at it, but the QBs who don’t go on day 1 seem to slide fairly far. It doesn’t seem like QBs go in round 2 all that frequently, but that could be an erroneous perception of mine. 

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On 1/20/2019 at 1:11 AM, Anselmheifer said:


Regarding the big 12 assessment, Grier put up a very good completion percentage and TD to interception ratio as a freshman at Florida.  YPA wasn't as good, but he was a freshman. I can't help but wonder what kind of numbers he would have put up at Oklahoma, with better weapons and a better team around him. He's the opposite of Drew Lock. Grier always looks comfortable. His mobility is also great. PFF has him as the best deep passer over the last 2 years. I can't find the link, but they also had him as amongst the best when facing pressure. I would honestly feel better about Grier than Murray. Maybe I am overestimating the importance of Murray's lack of stature. I've just never seen a QB his size have success. 

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/will-grier-1.html

 

 

 

 

 

From his 2017 season 

 

Nice article on Will.

 

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9 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Among the non-QBs, I agree.  Hard for a DT to match the impact of a successful QB though.  I think Murray and Haskins will be the two most impactful guys from the class.

 

Right now I've only got two situations where Oliver wouldn't be the BPA at 15 if he were somehow still available at our pick: Murray/Haskins are inexplicably still on the board, or Josh Allen is still there.

 

I think Allen is a top three lock, and a likely selection for San Francisco at 2 if they keep their pick.  And I suspect they probably will, because teams aren't going to need to leapfrog the Jets to get a QB.  The Jets are a much more likely candidate to trade down than SF.

 

I think Murray goes #1 overall to Arizona, and that Haskins will go #3.

 

Oliver is the one who has a chance to make it to us, even though it's unlikely.

 

Oliver's fit is an interesting question.  He's a natural A gap rusher, so you can play him at the one tech in passing situations.  Good B gap rusher and his ability to defend the B gap against the run makes him a natural 3 tech on run downs.  But if his arms are long enough, that means 4 and 5 tech are on the table too.

 

An interior DL corps of Allen, Payne, and Oliver would be hellaciously talented.  Arguably the most athletic group of DTs in the NFL.  They would be impossible to deal with for any interior offensive line, and they would give us a chance of disrupting offenses quarterbacked by guys like Brees and Brady.

 

The only problem is you'd have one guy playing out of position in a 4-3 look, or 2 or all 3 out of position in a 3-4 look.

Allen and Oliver would both ideally be 3 tech.. Payne at the 1 or 3 as well.. 

I hate seeing Allen at the 5, and they do it so damn often.

 

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Olamide the truth. The production he put up with a very limited passer, the versatility, the attitude he plays with - he’s a phenomenal prospect that gets no love.

 

 

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https://247sports.com/college/washington-state/Article/Washington-State-Gardner-Minshew-Cougs-Cougars-WSU-Senior-Bowl-hand-size-Wazzu-128170236/

 

Of the eight signal-callers in attendance, Minshew recorded the biggest paw, measuring in at 10 1/4 inches. 

- Give me Minshew in the 3rd or 4th round all day. This guy is going to be a steel.

Edited by skins2victory
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8 hours ago, nonniey said:

Here are where QBs fall in a group of rankings recently published. Point being is to show that the consensus is that there are no elite prospects and the Redskins under no circumstance should trade up for a QB.  Best bet is still to wait a year (or 2) imo.

 

NFL.coms Daniel Murray QBs ranked in the top 32.

15. Dwayne Haskins 

23. Drew Lock

24. Daniel Jones

29. Kyle Murray

 

CBS Sportsline 

13. Haskins

23. Murray

30. Lock

 

SI.com (Just top 20)

12. Haskins

 

Bleacher

14. Haskins

23. Jones

 

DraftTek

6. Haskins

11. Murray

 

Walter

27. Lock

29. Haskins

32. Jones

 

It's Janurary, i posted link in Haskins thread where CBS latest mock draft at the time had Haskins as first QB off the board.  That was right before Murray declared.

 

I don't blame anyone for being gunshot about a trade up, but I'm not ready for declaring anyone as not worth trading up for before we even get to the combine.  We also don't know where Haskins could end up landing, he could very well fall to something far more reasonsable.  A blanket no trade up policy is going to look bad if we're talking only a couple spots because he's falling and someone else decides to pull the trigger.

 

Kinda said my piece on urgency of drafting a QB in first round this year, so i won't do it here.  If we do do it this year, we have to make sure it's the right guy or punt.  I won't support punting, but that's not my call or point of this thread.

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9 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

4 QBs before pick 15?  Yes, they go early but wow that would have a big ripple effect on the draft.  Teams at the bottom of the first round would be ecstatic.  I'm only looking at mocks at the moment but TE's Noah Fant, Hockenson and Irv Smith are often in the 2nd round (or at best one might be at the bottom of the 1st round).  Of course, there are a zillion mocks and they change all the time.  I'd like to see how Hockenson performs that the combine to gauge how he stacks up against the top TEs taken in prior years.       

 

QBs tend to climb not slide so 4 of them going top 15 I think is feasible especially if u look at team needs.  Brugler for example has 4 going top 15.

 

I've seen Hockenson all over the map, including in the first round and even top 15 in two recent mocks including from Jeremiah and Ledyard. Kiper has him going at 19 in the first.

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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57 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

It's Janurary, i posted link in Haskins thread where CBS latest mock draft at the time had Haskins as first QB off the board.  That was right before Murray declared.

 

I don't blame anyone for being gunshot about a trade up, but I'm not ready for declaring anyone as not worth trading up for before we even get to the combine.  We also don't know where Haskins could end up landing, he could very well fall to something far more reasonsable.  A blanket no trade up policy is going to look bad if we're talking only a couple spots because he's falling and someone else decides to pull the trigger.

 

Kinda said my piece on urgency of drafting a QB in first round this year, so i won't do it here.  If we do do it this year, we have to make sure it's the right guy or punt.  I won't support punting, but that's not my call or point of this thread.

 

Teams trust Urban, there is no prospect he’s raved about more than he has Haskins, it would take something substantial to make him fall within a couple spots of us. 

 

Speaking of guys Urban thinks highly of, Terp Derwin Gray is a prospect the former OSU coach thinks highly of. I would love to get Derwin in Washington — need to see how the arms measure but he should be a very good guard if he can’t stay outside. 

 

 

 

I look forward to another year of McFarland before he’s picked in round 1 in 2020.

 

His hs teammate, Chase Young, will also go in round 1 next year, I’ll take both. 

Edited by volsmet

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I just read Walter Football's rumors page. They did nail the Redskins being infatuated with Daron Payne around the same time last year.

 

They say the Redskins are enamored with Daniel Jones but they think he will be going top 10.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I just read Walter Football's rumors page. They did nail the Redskins being infatuated with Daron Payne around the same time last year.

 

They say the Redskins are enamored with Daniel Jones but they think he will be going top 10.

 

Thats interesting, I thought Washington was higher on Vita Vea. The highlight of the draft was Tampa passing on Derwin for Vita. A feeling I know you shared.

1 hour ago, skins2victory said:

https://247sports.com/college/washington-state/Article/Washington-State-Gardner-Minshew-Cougs-Cougars-WSU-Senior-Bowl-hand-size-Wazzu-128170236/

 

Of the eight signal-callers in attendance, Minshew recorded the biggest paw, measuring in at 10 1/4 inches. 

- Give me Minshew in the 3rd or 4th round all day. This guy is going to be a steel.

 

Who would you compare Minshew to? I haven’t watched much of him. 

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14 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Thats interesting, I thought Washington was higher on Vita Vea. The highlight of the draft was Tampa passing on Derwin for Vita. A feeling I know you shared.

 

Yeah loved Derwin, too. The dude is an All Pro first teamer in his rookie year.  Dan still has never had an All Pro player in 19 years if I recall.

 

Yeah if I recall Walterfootball said the Redskins liked Payne over Vea back then.  Who knows and maybe they just got lucky. But I will take the Jones rumor a little seriously for that reason.

 

Giants according to them like Haskins, Jones, and Murray in that order.  Denver likes Lock. Redskins like Jones.  And I know from living in South Florida, lot of talk of the Dolphins going Qb. We got Jax wanting one too.

 

I am guessing Foles will take one of those teams out of the mix.

 

Switching topics, lot of buzz on M. Sweat today so wonder if he leap frogs Polite and Burns after this week.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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22 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Teams trust Urban, there is no prospect he’s raved about more than he has Haskins, it would take something substantial to make him fall within a couple spots of us. 

 

 

Agree, why I believe its premature to say theres no QB worth trading up for or how far we have to go up to do it.  Theres clearly players that are higher on the overall board then some of these QBs. 

 

Let's say Giants arent bluffing about Eli playing a couple more years and Jags go different direction then Haskins, it could get very real out of nowhere if no one had already jumped ahead of the Giants for Haskins like a lot of mock drafts are saying now like this one:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-mock-draft-redskins-grab-kyler-murray-pats-land-tom-bradys-replacement-raiders-take-wr-and-rb-in-first-round/

 

Need to finish going back through this thread to see if I missed any Haskins or Murray comparisons.  I'm not fan of his height,  but Wilson and Brees are under 6 foot, so that shouldn't be an automatic dealbreaker, imo.

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