stevemcqueen1

2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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1 hour ago, volsmet said:

 

It’s incredibly hard to judge on film, people often knock the combine but it’s invaluable in confirming, or contradicting, what you believe you see on tape. Our eyes lie to us all — all the time. I’ve heard scouts - paid by professional football teams - confess that a player grades differently in different color uniforms, literally, more than a few, have felt guys looked more explosive in home v away uniforms. If trained eyes can be deceived by uniform color, skepticism is paramount - it’s not a luxury, it’s a necessity. I look forward to his combine, if he does put up strong athletic testing numbers, then you have a great pass rushing athlete - who plays with tremendous effort - & produced in a major conference, the ultimate prospect. 

 

 


I don't think times are as important as billed. Terrell Suggs. Robert Quinn. There are lots of guys that have been super productive pass rushers and haven't timed well. Polite really only has one year of production. Very good, but not elite production. 


My man crush on Josh Allen almost couldn't be bigger. Has put up substantive sack numbers for years and posted 17 sacks this year. Seventeen. He was also great dropping into coverage. Honestly, I think he is Khalil Mack, but better. I know we need a QB, but if Allen falls at all, I would trade up for him. And I'd draft Germaine Pratt. Josh and Jonathan Allen, Da'Ron Payne, and Reuben Foster are a championship caliber defensive core. I honestly believe better than any other current defensive core. This is what PFF said when ranking him the 4th best player in college football last year. 

I know we can't afford the trade up, but it's fun picturing what the all-in version of our defense could look like. 

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/college-top-101-best-college-football-players-in-2018

 

"This one is easy: Josh Allen got home with a pressure on 23.4% of his pass-rush snaps this season – the best mark of any defensive player who rushed the passer at least 200 times this year. He tallied 57 pressures on just 244 pass-rushes and his outstanding pass-rush productivity of 30.3 was 3.5 percentage points higher than the next closest player. He was far and away the best pass-rusher this season regardless of position but that’s not even the half of what he did well. He dropped back in coverage with great success (81.9 grade) and made 51 total defensive stops and missed just four tackles out of 69 attempts. All in all, Allen’s performance not only cemented him as the best edge defender this season, but it also vaulted him up draft boards and should make him more than a recognizable figure come April."


 

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28 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Points in Polite's favor, 4 PD's (shown to surprisingly help correlate to transition to NFL game), hustle, smooth player and clearly more athletic than most, shows attempts at various inside and outside moves but the technique looks blegh.  Given his hustle, this seems like a budding skillset to be developed.  Shows ability to hand fight.  Looks like he can drop into coverage extremely well for an Edge guy.  Saw him track and follow a RB to the flat and did not look uncomfortable or awkward like most Edge guys.  He singlehandedly shut down a read option with pure athleticism once (little hop step towards the QB forcing him to hand off then changed direction quickly and tackled the RB at the line).

 

However, as I've read from you guys before, he does struggle to disengage from blocks once locked on to.  Wonder if his arm length isn't ideal.  Curious about his size.  He's listed at 242, but read in other spots he's bigger than that?  What's up with Florida and their inability to run a stunt?  Saw a few with Polite looping around, and he looked bad, the rest of the DL looked bad.  They didn't call those often, but either it's coaching or Polite has no knack for selling the up field step.  He looks so athletic that stunts should be easy money for him.

 

I watched Polite mostly in real time this season, watching Gator games.  Yeah he's not a big dude or has long arms.  It's part of the reason I mentioned him as a third down specialist, lining up wide and teeing off.    He's very explosive and fast.    And he can shed blocks well at times in spite of his size because he has quick hands, has a wicked spin move and is relentless.  The dude makes plays too -- if I recall 17 plus tackles for losses, 6 forced fumbles, 11 sacks.    He might struggle to disengage from blocks once locked it -- but from what I recall its hard to lock him in.  

 

Just from a pure layperson's point of view about him what grabs me about him is EVERYTHING about him seems fast.  The first step, his hands, his movement, motor -- everything.  And watching him you can see he's a different kind of pass rusher from Kerrigan or Preston.  And especially on third downs where this defense has gotten beat more than the average defense -- having a dude that can line up wide and just run right past the LT would be a welcome change. 

 

 

I recall posting this during the season

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Yeah that ankle flexion is special.  Completely flattens out.  Even moreso than Nick Bosa does.

 

He reminds me of Vic Beasley.  Probably not as skilled and intuitive a rusher, but maybe he came to the position later than Beasley did.  Plus he's only 20.  Beasley was a senior who'd been starting forever.

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I like Polite a lot.  I have him and D’Andre Walker pretty much neck and neck at this point.  Similar tenacity/effort, play against the run, speed, ability to play off ball.  Love that Walker performed well vs Alabama.  I’m not sure how much variety either has in the pass rush though.  

I can’t recall for sure now (watched CeCe Jefferson and Polite’s tape interspersed, so I could have them slightly mixed up here), but the spin moves I saw from Polite (I think) were not very well done.  He didn’t get into the body of the tackle first, making it easier to deal with.  Pretty easy to coach that up though.  

Edit: Just saw the clip @volsmet posted.  That was a legit spin move from Polite (that LT looked like got thrown off a merry-go-round)... so I take back the above. :)

 

 

Burns’ speed and length is tantalizing, but I have him a touch behind those two.  

 

(not that I know anything)

 

 

Any thoughts on Claypool (ND wr)?  He really intrigues me but his qb play was pretty awful.  On the surface, it looks like he has a nice blend of size, speed, hands and the athleticism to get YAC.  

Edited by skinny21
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55 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:


I don't think times are as important as billed. Terrell Suggs. Robert Quinn. There are lots of guys that have been super productive pass rushers and haven't timed well. Polite really only has one year of production. Very good, but not elite production. 


My man crush on Josh Allen almost couldn't be bigger. Has put up substantive sack numbers for years and posted 17 sacks this year. Seventeen. He was also great dropping into coverage. Honestly, I think he is Khalil Mack, but better. I know we need a QB, but if Allen falls at all, I would trade up for him. And I'd draft Germaine Pratt. Josh and Jonathan Allen, Da'Ron Payne, and Reuben Foster are a championship caliber defensive core. I honestly believe better than any other current defensive core. This is what PFF said when ranking him the 4th best player in college football last year. 

I know we can't afford the trade up, but it's fun picturing what the all-in version of our defense could look like. 

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/college-top-101-best-college-football-players-in-2018

 

"This one is easy: Josh Allen got home with a pressure on 23.4% of his pass-rush snaps this season – the best mark of any defensive player who rushed the passer at least 200 times this year. He tallied 57 pressures on just 244 pass-rushes and his outstanding pass-rush productivity of 30.3 was 3.5 percentage points higher than the next closest player. He was far and away the best pass-rusher this season regardless of position but that’s not even the half of what he did well. He dropped back in coverage with great success (81.9 grade) and made 51 total defensive stops and missed just four tackles out of 69 attempts. All in all, Allen’s performance not only cemented him as the best edge defender this season, but it also vaulted him up draft boards and should make him more than a recognizable figure come April."


 

 

Times rarely make or break a prospect, but the results are important to every scout/gm in the business for a reason. Suggs was the best player in HS & the best player in college, the short ES thread on him was, and still is, a beautiful read. What a draft that was, Minnesota forgetting to pick, Charles Rogers going 2nd, a converted H-back went 4th, we helped the Pats fulfill their dream of calling Ty Warren their very own, the Ravens followed up their brilliant pick by taking Kyle Boller in the top 20, sexy Rexy was off the board at 23, picks 31-42 had 6 pro bowlers, and a guy named Piso went just before, with the 44th pick in the 2003 nfl draft, the Washington Redskins Select:

Taylor Jacobs

WR

Florida

 

My man crush that year, Marcus Trufant, what an athlete he was.  

 

 

I certainly agree that Josh Allen is an incredible prospect, we are in desperate need of that explosive element on our roster. 

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watched Polite mostly in real time this season, watching Gator games.  Yeah he's not a big dude or has long arms.  It's part of the reason I mentioned him as a third down specialist, lining up wide and teeing off.    He's very explosive and fast.    And he can shed blocks well at times in spite of his size because he has quick hands, has a wicked spin move and is relentless.  The dude makes plays too -- if I recall 17 plus tackles for losses, 6 forced fumbles, 11 sacks.    He might struggle to disengage from blocks once locked it -- but from what I recall its hard to lock him in.  

 

Just from a pure layperson's point of view about him what grabs me about him is EVERYTHING about him seems fast.  The first step, his hands, his movement, motor -- everything.  And watching him you can see he's a different kind of pass rusher from Kerrigan or Preston.  And especially on third downs where this defense has gotten beat more than the average defense -- having a dude that can line up wide and just run right past the LT would be a welcome change. 

 

 

I recall posting this during the season

 

 

 

 

In the clip you shared previously his move around the lt was flawless, certain people will be inclined to make babies after watching something like that. 

 

What differences do you see in Polite vs Burns at this point? 

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On 12/28/2018 at 10:00 PM, volsmet said:

Be ready for the world to fall in love with, Darwin Thompson.

 

Day 2 possibility.

 

 

 

Love me some Darwin. 

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41 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

In the clip you shared previously his move around the lt was flawless, certain people will be inclined to make babies after watching something like that. 

 

What differences do you see in Polite vs Burns at this point? 

 

That's a great question and I need more time on it.  I've hyped on Burns some weeks back but in his case it was more about parroting other people's hype where I liked his profile and also liking what I saw highlight wise and from what I've read about him.  For Polite I watched a bunch of full games.  I haven't really watched FSU much the last 2 years. So I have to watch some Burns games versus purely highlights.

 

But from what I've noticed they both fit the bill for what I want to add to the D line which is a quick twitch, explosive (burst), fast pass rusher.   Polite forced 6 fumbles, Burns forced 3.  If I recall they used Burns more as a pass rushing specialist whereas Polite was on the field on run downs more.  

 

Burns is lankier looking but he also has the long arms that some covet in a pass rusher which Polite lacks.  Just on a cursory comparison, Polite pops to me more but I've watched him more.  It's hard for me to quantify it but there is something about Polite that makes him fun for me watch -- I think its the speed coupled with the nonstop motor.   He's relentless and persistent including chasing runners in the open field.   I can see him playing well against mobile Qbs because of how hot he pursues and never gives up and has the speed to chase guys down.  We've seen Preston and Kerrigan multiple times being dodged in open field or laterally from the pocket from mobile or quick footed QBs.

 

If he adds some strength I think he can end up OK at stopping the run or at least where he's not a major liability. He comes off to me as a dude that will wreak havoc in the NFL.

 

I need to dive into Burns more though.  Like I said they both fit the profile of what I want to add to this defense.  I am a bit more confident in Polite because I've watched him more. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's a great question and I need more time on it.  I've hyped on Burns some weeks back but in his case it was more about parroting other people's hype in terms of liking what I saw highlight wise and from what I've read.  For Polite I watched a bunch of full games.  I haven't really watched FSU much the last 2 years. So I have to watch some Burns games versus purely highlights.

 

But from what I've noticed they both fit the bill for what I want to add to the D line which is a quick twitch, explosive (burst), fast pass rusher.   Polite forced 6 fumbles, Burns forced 3.  If I recall they used Burns more as a pass rushing specialist whereas Polite was on the field on run downs more.  

 

Burns is lankier looking but he also has the long arms that some covet in pass rusher which Polite lacks.  Just on a cursory comparison, Polite pops to me more but I've watched him more.  It's hard for me to quantify it but there is something about Polite that makes him fun for me watch -- I think its the speed coupled with the nonstop motor.   He's relentless and persistent including chasing runners in the open field.  If he adds some strength I think he can end up OK at stopping the run or at least where he's not a major liability. He comes off to me as a dude that will wreak havoc in the NFL.

 

I need to dive into Burns more though.  Like I said they both fit the profile of what I want to add to this defense.  I am a bit more confident in Polite because I've watched him more. 

 

Excellent. Very much appreciated, SIP.

giphy.gif

 

Polite is relentless — and has a twitter handle all mothers would appreciate. Burns is an intriguing talent, perhaps with more upside — Polite the safer prospect imo, but it’s early yet. Arm length will be an interesting measurement for Jachai, the ability to stun a tackles shoulder is something all scouts covet, then of course 2g responsibilities if you’re going to have the guy on the field as more than a rocket/end. I - very much - look forward to your comps & evaluations as draft season heats up. You, Steve, and some of the regulars have better discussions & insights than people who attend the combine; Perhaps an ES delegation will attend this year or next, it’s a good time, though Indi isn’t the most exciting city for a get away. Everyone can stay at my cousins house, free board, free room, nonstop football — prank calls to Bill Polian; We can film a documentary, instead of wedding crashers, you guys can be the draft crashers. 

 

 

Yvk0RW.gif

 

Damn, the man is sudden, what a class we have. You gents should get a podcast, the draft is big business and you gentlemen are gifted, knowledgeable, love the work, and present it incredibly well. 

 

@skinny21 brought up Walker, there are more pass rushers than I can keep up with. A decade from now, 2 or 3 will have separated themselves, I wouldn’t bet against this thread figuring out which prospects they’ll be, though it is a bit more difficult without access to the background information/interviews. 

 

Well, I’ve gone off course, early signs of Chick-fil-A withdrawal. 

 

 

 

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Brian Burns has great length, incredible speed and can really bend. He is literally however built like a big WR. I can see him getting eaten alive in the run game, and I think it will be easy for NFL tackles to engulf him if he doesn't win with his initial speed. 


Speed is great, but speed with no power is less dangerous. With Burns, I there is speed to spare, but I don't ever see him winning with his hands, with power, or with counters. I think I saw one spin move to the inside. 


On the other hand, Burns has a lot more sack production over 3 years, whereas Polite only really had any production this year. Burns had 8.5 sacks in only 8 games as a freshman. 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brian-burns-2.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jachai-polite-1.html

 

In any case, it does look like the draft could line up so a defender is the best pick at 15. 

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Continuing the OLB/DE talk, I watched a bit of tape from Porter Gustin.  Had trouble finding a lot of recent stuff - he’s had injuries the past two years (so he’d fit right in here), but the dude’s an animal.  

 

In 2018, he recorded 28 tackles, 10 TFLs, and 7.5 sacks in just 6 games.  

 

 

That season was a frustrating one for Gustin. It started with high expectations, after a stellar 2016 sophomore season, but in the days leading up to USC’s Sept. 16 game against Texas, the team discovered that Gustin had fractured one of his big toes. 

Gustin attempted to play that game after midweek surgery, and even recorded two sacks in the first half, but left at halftime when it was discovered that surgically-implanted screws had come loose.

 

 

Crazy.  

 

Worried about the injuries of course, but broken toe, broken ankle and a torn bicep, so hopefully nothing recurring.  He really does fit the bill as a ‘Redskins steal’, lol.  

 

BTW, while looking into him, I stumbled on this:

 

What do you worry about, and why?

  • I often worry about the culture and mindset of my current team and the team I will become a part of in the NFL. Too often I see coaches fail to eliminate players that are cancerous to the culture/success of a team due to their elite individual talent. These players are very difficult to motivate and are rarely willing to change their mindset. I have found that if a player like this is not willing to change their attitude for the better of the team, their elite talent is not worth the trouble that they bring to the team .

 

https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/2018/11/porter-gustin/

 

(great interview)

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7 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Continuing the OLB/DE talk, I watched a bit of tape from Porter Gustin.  Had trouble finding a lot of recent stuff - he’s had injuries the past two years (so he’d fit right in here), but the dude’s an animal.  

 

In 2018, he recorded 28 tackles, 10 TFLs, and 7.5 sacks in just 6 games.  

 

 

This is exactly the type of player the Redskins need to stay away from. He has excellent talent, no doubt, but his injury history should be an immediate red flag for the FO to take in the draft round that his talent reflects for him.

 

If he can be had later in the draft, where his upside far outweighs the injury concerns, it's worth the gamble. But this franchise doesn't have the luxury of selecting injury prone players in their market value round in my opinion.

 

 

 

Edited by KDawg
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15 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

Polite is a great looking prospect, in addition to his obvious gifts he battles hard v the run and shows incredible discipline/awareness on screens. You don’t see a lot of college pass rushers who are able, or willing, to play the screens with the discipline I’ve seen Polite play them with. 

 

In addition to volsmet... 

 

@Anselmheifer @stevemcqueen1 @Skinsinparadise

 

I have seen enough of Polite to know that he's a hustler... explosive on the edge... utilizes pass rush moves extremely well. He seems to have a great football IQ to diagnose a play. But I have not seen enough of him to know how he holds up against larger, road grater types of tackles that he'd be facing in the NFL, especially in the run game. I know he played in run situations in college, but will he be able to hold up to a guy like Trent Williams mauling him down after down? At 260 pounds his size isn't particularly the issue in my eyes. I just haven't seen him enough in those run situations to know how he holds up. A lot of times these guys with such great explosion seem to sacrifice some of their ability to stop the run in order to get that extra burst. In obvious pass rush downs that's not particularly a concern. A draw should be diagnosed by the ILBs quick enough that they can rally to it. 

 

But in those tweener situations where offenses don't have a specific tendency, his ability to go toe to toe with a mauler is pretty important.

 

If he's strictly a pass rush specialist he should still be a target for this team, albeit in an appropriate round...

 

What's the consensus?

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15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

If he's strictly a pass rush specialist he should still be a target for this team, albeit in an appropriate round...

 

What's the consensus?

 

Judging by mocks which granted can be dicey at this junction, he's going somewhere in the 10-20 range in the first round.   Looks like its a relatively deep draft for pass rushers at least in terms of some guys falling into the 2nd.   However, pass rushers like o lineman tend to go if anything earlier than expected.  

 

Judging by mocks, Bosa is going #1 or #2, J. Allen is out of reach, C. Ferrell is likely out of reach.  Then it seems to be Polite, Burns, Sweat.  R. Gary is a wildcard - some see him on the inside because of his size, some see him on the edge, some see him top 10, some don't. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Judging by mocks which granted can be dicey at this junction, he's going somewhere in the 10-20 range in the first round.   Looks like its a relatively deep draft for pass rushers at least in terms of some guys falling into the 2nd.   However, pass rushers like o lineman tend to go if anything earlier than expected.  

 

Judging by mocks, Bosa is going #1 or #2, J. Allen is out of reach, C. Ferrell is likely out of reach.  Then it seems to be Polite, Burns, Sweat.  R. Gary is a wildcard - some see him on the inside because of his size, some see him on the edge, some see him top 10, some don't. 

 

How does he hold up versus a mauler? Regardless of where he is projected to actually be drafted, is he worthy of that pick talent wise? (IE: Is he an all around player at the position or a specialist?)

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54 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

How does he hold up versus a mauler? Regardless of where he is projected to actually be drafted, is he worthy of that pick talent wise? (IE: Is he an all around player at the position or a specialist?)

 

Don't know but also don't care a heck of a lot either.  When was the last time we had a legit speed rusher?  Maybe Chris Clemons?  It brings in my view a different and needed dynamic to the pass rush especially considering who we got on the inside.   This team gets destroyed on third down.   Just about every offensive coordinator will say the hardest down is a third down in an obvious passing situation.  That seems to hold true for almost every team except for us. 

 

I recall liking Takkarist McKinley in a previous draft, and the dude is more than 10 pounds lighter than Polite.  7 sacks last year.  And Polite jumps at me much more than McKinley did.  Again, I am no expect so purely from a layman's point of view, Polite just seems in overdrive when he plays.  But unlike some try hard pass rushers who aren't ultra athletic -- Polite is indeed ultra athletic who has that athletic twitchiness and speed that Preston and Kerrigan lack.

 

I recall a college coach talking about Kerrigan before the draft saying in the NFL he'd look for playmakers in college and that fits Kerrigan, sacks, tackles for losses, fumbles, etc.  Polite is the same kind of guy, 6 forced fumbles, bats passes in the air, 17 plus tackles for losses.

 

Specifically as for him stopping the run, I haven't zeroed in on it.  Actually I haven't re-watched any of Polite's games yet but I will.  He's one of those guys that jumped out at me in real time -- just like Marquise Brown who I highlighted during the season.  And Guice among others last year.  Just dudes that are hard to miss and just about every game making an impact. 

 

So as for him stopping the run, I'd be lying if I said I paid attention to it yet myself aside from the dude has slippery hands and can shed well. And chasing runners from behind in the open field which from what I recall he was good at.  It's his speed-bend and hands and motor which jumps out to me.   But here is what some others have said about his run stopping for what its worth.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/04/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-jachai-polite/

Run Defense – Super slight frame that will get overwhelmed at times in the trenches. Physically can’t matchup with power/technique types, but don’t tell him that. Plays with a physicality and nastiness in the run game that adds enough punch to his game to hold his own. Active and well-placed hands shed blocks better than you think. May give a little ground off the snap, but typically works off contact quickly to defend his gap. Outstanding range and constantly makes plays to the boundary. Ability to fend off blockers while continuing to move laterally and string out perimeter runs is top-notch. Takes tight ends personally, although Isaac Nauta got him a few times. Might get knocked on his butt a time or two, but has ability to slip blockers that will allow him to create negative plays too.

 

https://www.ocala.com/news/20181009/polite-on-pace-for-double-digit-sacks-nfl-paycheck

“Jachai’s speed off the ball is probably the best in the country. He’s probably hands down the best pass-rusher in the country, and I love playing with him. Just seeing that guy transform — that was my roommate coming in here, and seeing how much weight he shed, how hard he worked, and he’s always been that athletic type of guy,” junior linebacker David Reese said. “And he can stop the run also, so it’s not like he’s just a pass-rusher. He’s an all-around guy.”

 

If he continues playing at his current rate, Polite will only draw more acclaim — in addition to a consistent double teams from Florida’s opposition — and an NFL paycheck similar to Bryan’s should follow.

When asked about Polite’s talent level, Mullen, who abstained from watching much film from Jim McElwain’s tenure prior to either spring or fall camp, could think of just one other defensive end over the past two decades he has witnessed who possessed a similar all-around skill-set: Dwight Freeney.

 

https://medium.com/mesh-point-scouting/jachai-polite-and-the-need-for-speed-80705c6296c2

He’s not some reckless pass rusher trying to get good-looking sack totals (nor does he have to be, they’re already plenty good-looking). He plays within a team scope, he sets the edge against the run and holds contain against the pass. He’ll break off his pass rush when he recognizes a screen developing.

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Yeah, Polite’s definitely not just a pass rusher.  At worst I think he’s pretty solid vs the run.  Not sure if he’ll be able to shed blocks (consistently) from pro bowl LTs, but few can.  Certainly don’t think he’ll be consistently manhandled either.  His speed/pursuit and his football intelligence are also significant assets in the ground game.  

Edit: Polite might not be quite as stout in the ground game as Anderson - though, they have some body type similarities - but he’s also quicker and more dynamic, IMO.  

 

@KDawg The above was partly directed to you, but I also wanted to touch on your comments about Gustin.  Yes, troubling injury history (hence my joking about being a great fit here), but at least they weren’t recurring injuries or major ones (like an ACL).  I wouldn’t consider him at 15, but 2nd or 3rd round would be interesting (and really tempting).  

Edited by skinny21

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14 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

@KDawg The above was partly directed to you, but I also wanted to touch on your comments about Gustin.  Yes, troubling injury history (hence my joking about being a great fit here), but at least they weren’t recurring injuries or major ones (like an ACL).  I wouldn’t consider him at 15, but 2nd or 3rd round would be interesting (and really tempting).  

 

I disagree 100%. An ACL can be a freak injury, although if you tear an ACL, you are statistically much more likely to tear the other side than someone that has never torn an ACL. 

 

These people with recurrent soft tissue injuries and fractures are exactly the people to avoid like the plague. They have already proven they are fragile. Just like Chris Thompson. I really hope we start investing in people with a solid history of remaining healthy. 

 

I’m a sports medicine physician, by training. 

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I am betting we might be wasting our time (me especially) delving into upper half first round prospects who aren't Qbs.  Not that I needed to see the tweet below to lead to that thought.  It's obvious. 

 

I am betting the politics (not just the need for one) of needing a QB will loom large over the draft process.  I do think if the status quo holds they will likely struggle to sell season tickets and create buzz.  Only thing aside from management changes that would do it would be to acquire a star or draft a new shiny QB.  

 

While I agree a Qb is the be all and end all or close enough if you ever want to go to the promised land.   Just look at the final 4 right now -- all good QBs, all top offenses.   I also think if buzz is an important component to this, then you got to get Haskins.  The problem with Murray is while its a sexy move, trading up for a Heismann winning running QB with questionable durability will bring up too many parallels and not in a good way to 2012.  I don't see Jones or Lock bringing buzz if buzz is an important component to this for them. 

 

To do this clearly they'd have to trade their 2020 first round pick and if so I am going to hate it unless that's all it is and Haskins is who they land.    If Haskins is the target the draft capitol to move to #1 I think could be RG3 level big.   Maybe they take a chance and see if he drops further in the top 5 where they'd just have to give up one extra #1.

 

 

 

 

Just looked at Kiper's first mock.  Redskins take Polite.  Haskins and Murray go before our pick.  Jones at the tail end of the first and Lock is is in the 2nd -- doubt it goes down that way.

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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I would actually be utterly shocked if we don't go QB in the first. Shocked. Just please do not mortgage the future for the unknown.

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2 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I would actually be utterly shocked if we don't go QB in the first. Shocked. Just please do not mortgage the future for the unknown.

 

I fully expect Bruce Allen to mortgage our future picks away to save his ass in the now. Hopefully they switch his Coors with everclear and he ends up being too drunk to find the phone and make the trade on draft day.

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2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I disagree 100%. An ACL can be a freak injury, although if you tear an ACL, you are statistically much more likely to tear the other side than someone that has never torn an ACL. 

 

These people with recurrent soft tissue injuries and fractures are exactly the people to avoid like the plague. They have already proven they are fragile. Just like Chris Thompson. I really hope we start investing in people with a solid history of remaining healthy. 

 

I’m a sports medicine physician, by training. 

Fair enough, and I appreciate the insight.    

 

Probably a a moot point with Gustin as I’m guessing a team less snake bitten by injuries will take him long before we’re comfortable doing so. 

 

Personally, I’m probably a bit less concerned about the injury history angle than much of ES.  It should absolutely be a factor though.  The 3rd rounder that could have gone in the 1st, I’m ok with taking that chance if it’s not a recurring issue (multiple breaks or tears to the same area, for example).  One, we’ve seen this work out with Fuller and Moreau (and Allen to an extent with his shoulder concerns), and two, we have such a dearth of high end talent (and a lot of holes to plug), that I don’t mind the higher risk for the higher reward.  On the other hand, Malcolm Kelly was a poor decision due the the ongoing issues with his knees.  

 

Where I’m much less ok with ‘ignoring’ injuries is in FA.  The risk/reward factor becomes magnified balanced against the cap.  Signing Richardson, extending Reed and Thompson, not carrying another qb with McCoy so injury prone, were not very good decisions.  On the other hand, signing Galette and Johnathon Cooper were far lesser risks that I didn’t mind given their small cap hits.  

 

@Skinsinparadise You might be right.  The ‘politics’ angle is especially concerning.  My hope would be (if things broke the way Kiper suggests) we wait until the 2nd and take Grier.  I haven’t delved into the qbs too much, but short of punting until next year, which I don’t see them doing, waiting until the 2nd or 3rd would be the better bet IMO.  Better than trading the farm for Haskins, moving up for Murray, or looking in FA anyway.   

 

Although I’m against taking Murray, if we do, we better grab a guard and receiver in the 2nd/3rd.  Personally, I’d rather go for defensive players with 2 or 3 of our first 4 picks.

 

Somewhat random... if we take Murray, I’d look at Campbell or Hollywood in rd 2, and if we take Grier, I’d look to add Sills.    

Edited by skinny21
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Edge groups need a rotation.  Look at how many Edge rushers the Eagles had last year when they won the Super Bowl.

 

Brandon Graham - 64.6% of the total D snaps

Vinny Curry - 56.1%

Derek Barnett - 41.1%

Chris Long - 48.1%

 

This year they lost Vinny Curry in Free Agency and added Michael Bennett.  It's clear the Eagles value heavily rotating between 4 guys.

 

We basically didn't have a rotation in 2018.  Kerrigan played 79.2% and Smith played 80.5% of snaps.  No other Edge player even got to 20% of snaps (Pernell McPhee was closest).  2017 was better, with Galette getting 37.4% of snaps.  Even then, Galette was just a specialist, and wasn't getting the levels the Eagles use in a heavy 4 man rotation.

 

2016 was our best Edge rotation.  Kerrigan 71.6%, Smith 69.8%, and Murphy 61.4%.  Now that was a heavily rotated 3 man group compared to the Eagles 4 man group.

 

---------------------------

 

So having talked about the need for a rotation, you want someone whose good enough vs run/pass to be involved more in the game than say Ryan Anderson or Junior Gallette.  You want them to start approaching the capability to play half the game.

 

Jachai Polite is good enough against the run to do that.  He's not the liability that Gallette was on your average down.  If he's on our team, the rotation would look more like 2016 even if we re-signed Preston Smith.  If we don't re-sign Smith, we have the Edge building block for our future as Kerrigan ages.

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1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I would actually be utterly shocked if we don't go QB in the first. Shocked. Just please do not mortgage the future for the unknown.

 

I'd draft the best non-QB prospect possible in this years draft, then go in 2019 with the full "Tank for Tua" mindset, and hope he goes pro in 2020.

Edited by ExoDus84

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8 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

I'd draft the best non-QB prospect possible in this years draft, then go in 2019 with the full "Tank for Tua" mindset, and hope he goes pro in 2020.

Fromm is also a probable entrant and is in the same tier as Tua, additionally Herbert and Eason are lesser 1st round talents that are better prospects than any 2019 prospect.  My preference would be to draft no one in the 1st round this year and accumulate 2020 and 2021 draft capital (but as Fresh8686 posted above, I can see Allen crippling the Redskins long term by moving up to draft Haskins in an attempt to protect his own position).

Edited by nonniey
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