2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[RWJ]

Got a feeling the Redskins will move up to take Daniel Jones from Duke.  Just got a feeling.  I could be out in right field.   

[Anselmheifer]

27 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

We need to be honest about the stakes for next season: if we don't get a QB this offseason, everyone is going to get fired next offseason.  We'll be starting over from square one.  Maybe that's for the best.  Gruden has been culpable in our quarterback failures and I'm not convinced any coach deserves a fourth shot at the position.  But it's really hard to root for that.  Especially when the OL and the defense are this close to being championship caliber.  The best scenario for everyone (except maybe Alex Smith) is for us to get our QB this year and we have a good season and make the playoffs.

 

Anyway to answer your question, I don't have an opinion on Will Grier yet.  I watched a couple of West Virginia games but I haven't evaluated him.  I still have to do him, Minshew, Jones, and Finley.

I agreed with most of what you posted. Speaking of Solomon Thomas, I can't understand why he hasn't been more productive. I was so confident in him as a pick. 
 

Also, speaking of the opportunity lost with Cousins, Mahomes, etc, all you have to do is look at the Eagles to see the difference in what quality management can bring. The Eagles already got a first round pick for Sam Bradford. They traded up for Wentz and paid two 1sts, a 2nd, a third, and a 4th and secured their future at QB. They identified a need, went up and got their guy. They paid almost nothing for Foles, and are likely going to get at least a second, if not more back for him this year. Ridiculous. 

 

Anyway, I think that we are definitely taking a QB this year. I don't think it matters what the board wants. The buzz seems to be that we are taking one and Williams was out in the open scouting Jones at Duke. I would hate that pick. I don't know if I've ever seen less impressive tape for such an impressive stat line. Also, I think Jones had less touchdowns for his career than Haskins had THIS YEAR. I would much rather have Lock or Grier. 

 

Edit: RWJ, I was typing my post before yours was posted. I agree. I think they might do that. And I would haaaaate it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

@Skinsinparadise TB likely needs a qb too.  Saints, Steelers, Patriots?, Chargers... there will be plenty of new teams wanting qbs (in 2020) I’d bet.  

Tampa said they are riding with Winston next year but who knows.  Looks like they are about to hire Arians.

 

Your posts among some from others  too are reigniting my interest in Grier. If I recall I did some longish posts about Grier over a month ago. But I'll dive back in.

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Tampa said they are riding with Winston next year but who knows.  Looks like they are about to hire Arians.

 

Your posts among some from others  too are reigniting my interest in Grier. If I recall I did some longish posts about Grier over a month ago. But I'll dive back in.

As I've probably stated, SIP I watched Grier last and this year game in and out and he's very smooth in the pocket at QB.  He does need to learn to get rid of the ball a bit better and throwing it away rather than taking the occasional sack but I believe he's the real deal.

[Jericho]

People seem to be vastly overvaluing the QBs in this year's draft. Most draft years produce one bona fide starter. Occasionally a draft year produces more. I don't know what 2019 will bring, but being considered a weak class it seems unlikely more than one guy in this class actually becomes even as good as Joe Flacco. Which is a pretty low bar. Dwayne Haskins seems the best bet, but one year starters are even riskier than the typical QB pick. It seems people are trying to talk themselves into the 3rd or 4th or 5th best QB in this class. Even worse, they want to burn a high pick on these likely back up options. And then start said player? That just seems to be a recipe for disaster. 

 

I get this team badly needs a young QB. But drafting a young QB just to say it was done, regardless of talent level or cost is a terrible move. If a good player falls to the team, then make the move. It did it years ago with Kirk Cousins. So it can be done. But it didn't pick Cousins in the first round or second or even third. Trading up has led this team to pick guys like Ramsey or Campbell or Griffin. The first two were not widely considered 1st round talents. You really have to love a guy to trade up and give significant assets. I just don't see that guy in this draft. So I hope the team plays it sane and reasonable. And maybe there's decent value when one of the picks comes up

[Anselmheifer]

19 minutes ago, Jericho said:

People seem to be vastly overvaluing the QBs in this year's draft. Most draft years produce one bona fide starter. Occasionally a draft year produces more. I don't know what 2019 will bring, but being considered a weak class it seems unlikely more than one guy in this class actually becomes even as good as Joe Flacco. Which is a pretty low bar. Dwayne Haskins seems the best bet, but one year starters are even riskier than the typical QB pick. It seems people are trying to talk themselves into the 3rd or 4th or 5th best QB in this class. Even worse, they want to burn a high pick on these likely back up options. And then start said player? That just seems to be a recipe for disaster. 

 

I get this team badly needs a young QB. But drafting a young QB just to say it was done, regardless of talent level or cost is a terrible move. If a good player falls to the team, then make the move. It did it years ago with Kirk Cousins. So it can be done. But it didn't pick Cousins in the first round or second or even third. Trading up has led this team to pick guys like Ramsey or Campbell or Griffin. The first two were not widely considered 1st round talents. You really have to love a guy to trade up and give significant assets. I just don't see that guy in this draft. So I hope the team plays it sane and reasonable. And maybe there's decent value when one of the picks comes up

This board has the most jaded members. We could have had Aaron Rogers, F'ing one pick earlier, the year that we took Jason Campbell. Ramsey wasn't a trade up, as I recall, he was a pick from the bottom of the first round. Cousins was a sort of lucky pick in the 4th. How many other mid to low round QB's have had sustained playoff level success? Not a lot. You are much better off taking a shot on a highly regarded QB in the first round. Even if the miss rate is high, it is much lower than the miss rate on QB's in the later rounds. A lack of QB ambition has tanked this team to a much higher degree than being overly ambitious and giving up too many assets. 

[Koala]

17 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

The only questions about him are whether he played with too much talent, and that he only has one year of a significant sample size.

I am an avid Ohio State fan, so I can tell you even that is not true.  Bout two years ago, ohio state fans were fretting about the WRs, Urban Meyer called them out as the weakest group on the team.  The whole country was saying OSUs pass offense sucked.

 

Insert Haskins, and BOOM -- suddenly we got the best WR core in the country, and the most explosive passing offense behind maybe only Oklahoma.   It wasn't a coincidence, it was instant fairy dust sprinkled by a 6'3" black man.

 

[Koala]

10 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm not necessarily saying it was a fluke as I think he's a very talented prospect. It's more about how ready he'll be to play soon. There's probably a 95% chance that whatever team takes him (likely in the top 3 if not #1 overall) will expect him to come in and start right away. With only one year of starting play at QB in college will he really be ready for that or would it hinder him and be essentially throwing him under the bus? If we gave up multiple 1st rounders to go get Haskins you know damn well he'd be expected to start immediately here and there would be tons of pressure on him.

 

I see where you are coming from, but honestly I don't think you're taking into account one very underrated aspect about Haskins -- he's a very quick study.  Ohio State moved from Urban Meyers zone read offense to Ryan Days pro style offense as soon as Haskins started,  and they were constantly adapting it right up to the end.  So Haskins, aslong with the whole team, were constantly learning a new offense until they perfected it at the end of the season --and at no point did Haskins hold them back, he adapted as fast as the coaches did.

 

That's a pretty big deal to me, and pretty impressive.  Honestly I hate to say it, but if he was another skin color, people would be raving about how smart a QB he is, and how well he understands the Xs and Os.  But hes not, so they talk about his accuracy and arm strength instead.  Which is fine...

 

He makes checks at the line, he can recognize blitzes pre snap, he already regularly uses his eyes to look off the safety, and hes a natural in the pocket.

 

Plus, I think Ryan Days offense, which emphasizes crossing routes, is a good mesh with Grudens West Coast attack.

 

But 1 year of starting experience outside of H.S. means that a little bit of patience will be necessary.  Just protect him  and be patient like you would any rookie QB, which the Redskins have shown the ability to do since...never.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, RWJ said:

As I've probably stated, SIP I watched Grier last and this year game in and out and he's very smooth in the pocket at QB.  He does need to learn to get rid of the ball a bit better and throwing it away rather than taking the occasional sack but I believe he's the real deal.

 

Sure, I am familiar with Grier, off the top of my head, I've watched at least 4 games of his with the Oklahoma one being my fav.  My caution about him is spread offense, playing against Big 12 defenses.  And I'm diving into Arians book right now about Qbs, his #1 thing is QBs who can process information quickly and then do so on the field.  He talks about being able to judge QBs with ease once the QB is in the room with him.  Not saying Arians is the be all and end all but he's been around a bunch of Qb successes and failures.  So on that quality specifically, info processing, we can only guess. 

 

I think that's part of the reason why its tough to judge college QBs transition to the NFL especially those like Grier who played mostly against wretched defenses out of a spread offense.  Grier according to most doesn't have special arm talent.   Arians talks about how its easy to judge Qbs like Big Ben, etc because their talent is special.  But I suspect a guy like Grier, someone like Arians would have to spend a little time with to judge. 

 

And look I enjoy watching Grier, I do like him.  But at the same time, I don't think its an accident that he's not as heralded as Lock, D. Jones, Haskins, etc.   Having said that, the Senior Bowl i think will be huge for him and Jones, etc.  You can do apples to apples comparisons and see what they can do.   It's ironically been cited as a major factor for the rise of guys like Wentz and for teams that ended up drafting them to notice Kirk and Prescott.  Could happen for Grier, too.

[clskinsfan]

I have already said it multiple times in this thread but I am ALL IN on a QB at 15 this year. I dont even care if the guy struggles next year at this point. Lets be honest we are going to struggle to win games next year regardless of who is playing QB. May as well get a rookie QB a learning year while the line is relatively stable. Williams, Scherff, Moses and Roullier are a solid line. Yes we need to fix LG but use a 2nd rounder at that spot. Or pick up a decent one in FA. By the way there are going to be some solid guards in FA this year (Ramon Foster and Mike Iupati come to mind). 

 

I have started watching film on QB's. It is MUCH more tedious without Draft Breakdown. I am basically having to watch every single game these guys have played on Youtube. And I am not getting any endzone angles at all. Does anyone have a site that they are using for film? Even if they charge a modest fee I would be interested in it.

[OVCChairman]

22 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I have already said it multiple times in this thread but I am ALL IN on a QB at 15 this year. I dont even care if the guy struggles next year at this point. Lets be honest we are going to struggle to win games next year regardless of who is playing QB. May as well get a rookie QB a learning year while the line is relatively stable. Williams, Scherff, Moses and Roullier are a solid line. Yes we need to fix LG but use a 2nd rounder at that spot. Or pick up a decent one in FA. By the way there are going to be some solid guards in FA this year (Ramon Foster and Mike Iupati come to mind). 

 

I have started watching film on QB's. It is MUCH more tedious without Draft Breakdown. I am basically having to watch every single game these guys have played on Youtube. And I am not getting any endzone angles at all. Does anyone have a site that they are using for film? Even if they charge a modest fee I would be interested in it.

 

 

What if there's no QB available worth 15?  IMHO, Haskins is the only 1st round QB in this upcoming draft... If he's not there, I'd seriously prefer we get 1st round talent at that pick, or trade back.  Taking a QB at 15 who isn't worth it is more detrimental than anything.  This is not a good QB draft at the top, so market value is going to inflate the value of a few.   Ask Minn what it's like to pay an inflated market dictated value for a QB. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I’m really hoping it falls in a way that we get

1. Guard

2. EDGE

3. WR

3. QB

5. ILB

5. DB

[kingdaddy]

Watching Ravens, Chargers, Bears, Eagles and Cowboys the blueprint is becoming more clear for me on how to build the Skins from here on out. Keep building the defense and get pass rushers to go with a top notch safety. I can only imagine the Redskins defense having players like Khalil Mack, Ingram from the Chargers, the linebackers that Dallas has etc...Once you get those types of players you can fill in on offense and be competitive. The Eagles are gonna give Drew Brees fits on Sunday the same as Dallas did earlier with a physical, attacking defense. I hope we go for the most impactful play-making defensive player in the draft....

[PlayAction]

4 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Watching Ravens, Chargers, Bears, Eagles and Cowboys the blueprint is becoming more clear for me on how to build the Skins from here on out. Keep building the defense and get pass rushers to go with a top notch safety. I can only imagine the Redskins defense having players like Khalil Mack, Ingram from the Chargers, the linebackers that Dallas has etc...Once you get those types of players you can fill in on offense and be competitive. The Eagles are gonna give Drew Brees fits on Sunday the same as Dallas did earlier with a physical, attacking defense. I hope we go for the most impactful play-making defensive player in the draft....

 

Unfortunately, the Skins don't have reliable playmakers on either side of the ball.  We could debate which blue print should be used or whether the blue prints change over time but they definitely need impactful players.

[PlayAction]

55 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

May as well get a rookie QB a learning year while the line is relatively stable. Williams, Scherff, Moses and Roullier are a solid line. Yes we need to fix LG but use a 2nd rounder at that spot. Or pick up a decent one in FA. By the way there are going to be some solid guards in FA this year (Ramon Foster and Mike Iupati come to mind). 

 

Skins haven't had that line for two years now.  Nsekhe may be leaving and Williams is hitting the frequent injury portion of his career.  If moving to Guard will prolong his career I'd love to see it because he can't stay healthy anymore.  That is, not as the fix for LG but to keep him productive while he's a Redskin.  Scherff will be an expensive resign.  Skins have a definite need for OT  - either for the inevitable injuries to Williams and Moses or as the swing tackle.  Gerod Christian didn't seem like he was able to make the initial jump to the pros.  Depending on who is available in the second round maybe the option should be OT or OG.  Btw - not sure if the contract demands for Foster or Iupati will be possible given Scherff's expected contract.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

9 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

Unfortunately, the Skins don't have reliable playmakers on either side of the ball.  We could debate which blue print should be used or whether the blue prints change over time but they definitely need impactful players.

TBD. A dominant DL can mask a lot. IF R. Foster is someone you can rely upon for the next 2-3 years (after a suspension) you’ve got the makings of a nice core. Kerrigan is Mr Reliable. I agree we should get another edge rusher. I think adding a LG and WR on offense is vital but using FA and the rest of the draft to address the defense is key. 

 

Idk if a high priced Edge is likely in FA but as someone said, add a Landon Collins, Rueben Foster and 1st round Edge to the defense and you’re in good shape. If one of the top edge guus falls to 15 it would be hard to pass. Outside of Ford there are a lot of Gurds to be had in the 2nd round range. So I wouldn’t mind a OLB-LG-WR start either

@PlayAction do not write off Christian. OL notoriously have a rough adjustment to the NFL. Unless you’re an elite talent, but even Trent and Scherff didn’t dominate year 1. Christian was admittedly raw coming out a year early as he did. Moses took until Year 3 to really hit his stride. Fortunately we don’t have to force Christian into a lineup (well we did and he got hurt but point being he’s our #3 OT on paper. He very well could play LT in 2020 and beyond should it come to that. 

 

Also, re: Scherff ... the guy is on the books for his 5th year option at $12.5 million in 2019. He will command a monster deal, yes, but it’s already reflected in our 2019 cap. If we extend this off-season it likely lowers his 2019 and 2020 cap numbers. Or if you extend post 2019, our 2020 cap hit will be $8-10 million most likely, below what he will count in 2019 on the 5th year option. Yes to pricy, but that’s already factored in to this upcoming years cap st least. 

[PlayAction]

Fingers crossed with Christian!  Ford's a Tackle right?  Dalton Risner seems to be the only first round G in this draft and he might be a better value later in first round.  So yes if there are a lot of Guards in the 2nd round that would be better. EDGE is a big need and it's supposed to be a deep class.  While that means the Skins could probably get first round talent at a lower round I agree that it might be best to pounce if one falls.   

[OVCChairman]

Just now, PlayAction said:

Fingers crossed with Christian!  Ford's a Tackle right?  Dalton Risner seems to be the only first round G in this draft and he might be a better value later in first round.  So yes if there are a lot of Guards in the 2nd round that would be better. EDGE is a big need and it's supposed to be a deep class.  While that means the Skins could probably get first round talent at a lower round I agree that it might be best to pounce if one falls.   

 

 

What i've seen is that Ford is better suited to be a Guard in the NFL.

[skinny21]

16 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

What i've seen is that Ford is better suited to be a Guard in the NFL.

Yeah, I think Ford’s a similar situation as Scherff when he came out - could play RT (and probably be solid), but better suited to G.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

The fact that both Edge and Interior OL are strengths of this draft and WR is super deep as well ... and Safety a deep position in FA bodes well or our attempts to plug holes. 

 

Theres a scenario that would allow us to get high impact contributors at EDGE/G/WR while using a 1st on a QB and addressing S during FA cycle. 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, PlayAction said:

 

Skins haven't had that line for two years now.  Nsekhe may be leaving and Williams is hitting the frequent injury portion of his career.  If moving to Guard will prolong his career I'd love to see it because he can't stay healthy anymore.  That is, not as the fix for LG but to keep him productive while he's a Redskin.  Scherff will be an expensive resign.  Skins have a definite need for OT  - either for the inevitable injuries to Williams and Moses or as the swing tackle.  Gerod Christian didn't seem like he was able to make the initial jump to the pros.  Depending on who is available in the second round maybe the option should be OT or OG.  Btw - not sure if the contract demands for Foster or Iupati will be possible given Scherff's expected contract.

 

I agree that injuries have been an issue. i also agree that resigning Nsekhe is a must. He should be relatively cheap and probably would want to stay in the area. The rest I dont agree with you at all. Trent played hurt all year. He is still a top tier LT when healthy and he is not ready to move inside. Scherff's value may have fallen a little after a season ending injury. And it is WAY TOO early to write off Christian. 

[SemperFi Skins]

Defenses win championships as we are still seeing in the playoffs... I sure hope Ed Oliver is available at our pick.... the next Aaron Donald, difference maker.

[Anselmheifer]

20 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Defenses win championships as we are still seeing in the playoffs... I sure hope Ed Oliver is available at our pick.... the next Aaron Donald, difference maker.

 

Ed Oliver isn't nearly the player that Donald is. Donald posted two collegiate seasons with twice as many sacks as Oliver had in his best season. And he had 33% more TFL if you compare their best seasons. If you want a DT, I think multiple guys this year might be more productive in terms of rushing the passer. I don't want a DT, unless at pick 15, the available DT is on a different tier than any other position. 

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/aaron-donald-1.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ed-oliver-2.html

 

If you want defense, CB, LB, S, and edge, could all represent a great value in rounds 1-3. 

Don't bank on it though. Unless there is unexpected good news with Alex Smith, I fully expect us to draft a QB. There have been rumblings and Doug Williams was personally scouting Jones, out of Duke. 

[PlayAction]

35 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Trent played hurt all year. He is still a top tier LT when healthy and he is not ready to move inside. Scherff's value may have fallen a little after a season ending injury. And it is WAY TOO early to write off Christian. 

 

The operative word is "when healthy".  He's been battling injuries for several years and each year they seem to wear him down more often and earlier in the season.  I'd love for it to be otherwise but I don't want to depend on it.  When healthy he is the best player on the OL for sure.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Someone breaking down and grading prospects should do Jimmy Moreland CB from JMU. Or “Jimmy EFFING Moreland” as he’s known in my house. Because his interceptions came to become so expecte. Dude was a shutdown beast at JMU and turnover machine. Got to imagine he gets drafted and is also a draft riser as small school guys tend to be once the off-season begins.

 

he’d be a guy I’d keep my eye on in the middle rounds if we are looking for DB depth