stevemcqueen1

2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

9. DAVID LONG, Michigan (5-10 ½, 194, 4.46, 2-3): Third-year junior, two-year starter. “I never saw the kid backpedal,” said one scout. “He is bump and run man cover almost exclusively. He is an old Raiders’ bump-and-run corner. He gets in their hip pocket and you ain’t getting away. He doesn’t waste a step. Not great in run support. He has instincts for receivers’ cuts.” Led the position in the short shuttle (3.97) and 3-cone (6.45). “He’s the sleeper of this group,” a second scout said. “He’s got really nice feel in press man coverage.” Finished with 37 tackles (two for loss), three picks and 12 PBUs. “I wouldn’t call him a complete coward against the run … but he wasn’t real interested,” said a third scout. “If he had to get involved he would. If you don’t give a (bleep) that he doesn’t play the run he’s a viable second-round pick.” Wonderlic of 24. “Grabby, lot of pass-interference calls,” said a fourth scout. “Good athlete, quickness and speed. Non-existent run support.” From Los Angeles.

 

I think this is fair.  He wasn't joining any scrums, but he'd break down and attack the run if it was in his area and he was the first one to the ball.  But the main thing is he was just always so far down field that runs were only in his area about two or three times a game.  He's just a true man coverage specialist, and that is basically how Michigan used him every snap.  Agree with the value projection that scout makes: 2nd round for a man cover team, mid day three pick for a zone team.

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Posted (edited)

Would love to come out of these remaining picks with 2 OL 1 WR 1 S 1ILB maybe a 1 TE and 1 CB.. in whatever order presents the highest value for each position depending on the round.

 

With the priority being OL and WR in the 3rd. Unless someone you have a 2nd rd grade on is there at the other positions.

Edited by COWBOY-KILLA-
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Our positions of greatest need seem to be WR, OL, and FS.  I think OL has great depth in this draft, so I'd try to package our 5th round picks and trade up into the 4th round for a player like Nate Davis or Michael Dieter if available.  I think it would be great if Haskins could reconnect with one of his teammates from OSU, so I'm all for drafting Campbell. If he's not available, I do like McLauren a lot.  I'm worried that there won't be a quality free safety available by the time we pick in the third, but I'm hoping for one of the following to drop: Rapp, Gardner-Johnson, Adderly, Thornhill, or D. Thompson.  If we could leave this draft with Haskins, Sweat, Campbell, Thompson, and Davis, I would be thrilled.

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3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think this is fair.  He wasn't joining any scrums, but he'd break down and attack the run if it was in his area and he was the first one to the ball.  But the main thing is he was just always so far down field that runs were only in his area about two or three times a game.  He's just a true man coverage specialist, and that is basically how Michigan used him every snap.  Agree with the value projection that scout makes: 2nd round for a man cover team, mid day three pick for a zone team.

 

Do you think about our division at all when thinking about who we should pick? Playing Barkley, Zeke and the Eagles usually 4-headed monster of a run game is always on my mind. It's one reason I think Norman still has value here. I'm less likely to want a Greedy/Long type for that reason, but I'm not sure that's really logical on my part.

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I personally 'Love' CB Julian Love out of ND... Watched a lot of their games by default. Seemed to always be in position to make the tackle, had a nose for the football with great coverage instincts. If he's around in the 3rd, he'd be great value

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I couldn't be happier with what we did last night. When the Ravens were picking i was thinking about what it would take to get back in the 1st for Brown. 

 

Thrilled they took Sweat. Hes exactly what we need opposite of Kerrigan. Its like they finally figured out after all these years they kept pairing Kerrigan with a clone of himself. No we have the speed to offset the power. Going to be an exciting defense if they can all stay healthy. 

 

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I just took a look at McGinn-scout stuff on both

 

8. DEIONTE THOMPSON, Alabama (6-1, 194, no 40, 4): Declined to run a 40 both at the combine and pro day. “I have an old saying: fast guys like to run,” said one scout. “Guys that don’t like running usually can’t run.” Waited his turn in a crowded secondary and finally started in 2018 as a fourth-year junior. “He’s a (bleep) but he’s probably the most talented safety,” a second scout said. “He’s got character problems.” Finished with 112 tackles (4 ½ for loss), three picks and seven PBUs. “He just is not going to time well but you put on the tape and he’s so instinctive,” said a third scout. “He gets a jump on plays so you don’t see the lack of speed or range show up. He’s so confident in what he sees that he’s one of the few college guys that can actually bait throws … he got worse as the season went on. In the SEC Championship Game he got burned by a tight end, (Georgia’s) Isaac Nauta, that can’t run, either, and he couldn’t even catch up to him.” Another scout said he was exploited deep by Clemson in the national title game. Wonderlic of 14. “Just a guy, really,” a fourth scout said. “Not a playmaker. Rigid in cover. Doesn’t have much range. Lot of missed tackles. Just a non-factor.” From Orange, Texas.

 

3. MACK WILSON, Alabama (6-1, 237, 4.73, 2): Third-year junior. Nicknamed “Maserati Mack.” Said one scout: “He sees things, he gets to the ball and he uses his hands well to get off blocks. He can cover well. He’s tough. He’s not an elite athlete, but he’s a good athlete with the football awareness that I think Bush is missing.” On the stubborn side; can be tough to coach. “He’s an average starter in the league,” a second scout said. “He’s not as gifted intellectually and from an instinctive-reactionary standpoint as like DeMeco Ryans, who was another guy with ordinary traits. But DeMeco was special in terms of leadership and mental. I don’t see that with Mack … The kid (Alabama ILB Dylan Moses) is an amazing talent, and sometimes that can hurt guys like Mack. So Moses is running by Mack, and Mack’s not slow. He’s just ordinary.” One-year starter with 113 tackles (seven for loss), one sack and seven takeaways (six were picks). Wonderlic of 15. “He made a really bad decision coming out,” said a third scout. “He’s a sub-down linebacker. He’s not your typical Alabama downhill, physical player. He never took the next step. Then he surprised Nick (Saban) and came out this year. He pissed a lot of people off in Tuscaloosa.” Hails from a rough-and-tumble section of Montgomery, Ala.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I do think we're a little thin on reliable young talent at RB.  Adrian Peterson is on the edge of his cliff.  He's a mediocre runner now, and his primary value is leadership.  There is definite downstream value to having a first ballot Hall of Famer in your locker room, giving off that aura of competitiveness and seriousness and success that everyone else can soak up.  But realistically, we've got like a year of him left.  And I don't think we can use him as a workhorse again like we used him last season.  Not really sure what to make of Guice, that was such an unfortunate situation.  He's a gritty young man, so I'm hoping he'll bounce back from his injury and be a valuable contributor as soon as say, midseason?  But we also need to be prepared for the chance that he's never the same guy he was at LSU.

 

As for him being slow, he can reach the edge of the defense first.  That's really all you need as a running back.  IMO he is a perfect market inefficiency to exploit--a "slow" rb with a weird body whose extraordinary gifts are not easily identified, who plays a position of enormous on field impact but low draft value.  I gave him one of the ten highest grades in the class and truly believe he is one of the ten best players pound for pound in the class.  He could be the best player on our team by his second or third season.  But he might be available in the third because of the market inefficiency effecting players like him.  I could be wrong, but I think he's Kareem Hunt with more creativity and shiftiness but skinnier legs.  Unbelievable contact balance.  Unbelievable vision and patience.  And shocking strength.  IMO he is better than what Nick Chubb had become last year, and better than Guice too.  I liked Chubb well enough last year, but I liked Guice and Michel more.

 

As for free safety and linebacker, I agree that we could really use some young talent at those spots to at least give us some depth.  Coney is my favorite MIKE prospect, and because of the really low draft value of the position, I think he could still be on the board in the 5th.  He'd be nice because he could push Foster into a chase and hit WILL role and you wouldn't necessarily have to two gap Payne, letting him play a little faster.  But he doesn't have a ton of versatility, as I don't think SAM is in the cards for him.  At safety we just need a deep safety because we've got Collins.  You know my thoughts on the value of a deep position.  All we really need is a relatively physical DB who can play single high and cover three zones.  We should be able to find someone to do it with a journeyman or a late pick.  Might be fine just playing Apke or Nicholson in the spot too.

 

I didn't watch much of Montgomery, because I don't believe the skins will draft a guy like him. They are pretty transparent and draft for need, and I am sure they think they are set other than at speed back. agree with you about strength and contact balance. When I was watching Blake Cashman vs Iowa State, he fell off of Montgomery multiple times. 


I would love an upgrade at CB, and think that could really help our defense. FS and LB are also needs and I think we will see them addressed later. 

 

Regarding packaging our trades, I think some talent is going to fall. There is probably going to be a Nate Davis, Irv Smith or Hakeem Butler available. 

 

I will say however, that I think we need impact players a lot more than warm bodies. We have adequate depth in most places, but could really use an impact player at WR, OL, or in the secondary. Even if we don't get a starter, we really need depth at LG and ILB. That should be easy a little later in the draft however. In any case, I wouldn't hesitate to trade up if I thought I could land a real impact player. 

 

Edit: SIP, I also don't love Mack or Thompson. I worry however that we are going to get to the point where they tempt the FO if they keep falling. They are exactly, IMHO, both the kind of player that benefits from playing around other really good players. 

Edited by Anselmheifer
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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Wonder if they'd consider trading up for Deebo, Butler, AJ Brown or Campbell if a run starts at WR.  I don't think I would.  But I love in theory to get one of the next tier receivers.

I haven’t seen a lot of talk about Emmanuel Hall from Missouri. He’s 6’2” and runs in the 4.3 range. I know he was knicked-up last season but nothing serious but he did miss games. When he played, Drew Lock was a better QB. Most mocks have him going early to mid-third round. 

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Posted (edited)

What's going on with Jawaan Taylor? An injury or character concern? He was projected top 20 and OL don't usually fall for no reason. I'm surprised noone has mentioned him as a draft target. 

 

Also, Erik McCoy looks to me like a future pro bowler at interior OL. We could use some more pro bowl talent on the team. 

Edited by Anselmheifer
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12 minutes ago, JaxJoe said:

I haven’t seen a lot of talk about Emmanuel Hall from Missouri. He’s 6’2” and runs in the 4.3 range. I know he was knicked-up last season but nothing serious but he did miss games. When he played, Drew Lock was a better QB. Most mocks have him going early to mid-third round. 

Past the top guys, Hall was one of my favorite unheralded guys, a solid potential pick with one of our 3rd rounders... but then he posted that 40 time and now I think he goes before 76.  

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1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Not a fan of going with any small wr that made his money in the slot in the 3rd. In case you all weren't aware, Quinn happened to put up very similar numbers to Andy.

 

Andy Isabella:

16.6 yard average

1698 yards

 

 

Trey Quinn:

10.8 yard average

1236 yards

 

 

These are not similar numbers. 

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5 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

These are not similar numbers. 

 

And both had 13 tds

 

To get someone close to that production with the last pick in the draft was spectacular. In addition, when healthy, Quinn was one of the few guys on our roster that could get separation. I don’t think we need to replace him. He played very well and should have the slot on lock down this year. 

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Miami is probably trading their 2nd rounder for Rosen+late rounder.

 

I would have traded our 2nd rounder straight for Rosen and taken Burns/Sweat at 15.  Frankly, we could have traded down to #30 from GB and gotten 2 fourth rounders (what Seattle got from dopping to 21).  We could have traded one of those 4th rounders back to Indy for their 26th and taken Sweat.

 

We would have gotten Sweat+Rosen+4th+our 2020 2nd rounder.

Instead we got Sweat+Haskins.

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40 minutes ago, Skins Skeptic said:

Do you think about our division at all when thinking about who we should pick? Playing Barkley, Zeke and the Eagles usually 4-headed monster of a run game is always on my mind. It's one reason I think Norman still has value here. I'm less likely to want a Greedy/Long type for that reason, but I'm not sure that's really logical on my part. 

 

Well I think that you have to draft and sign players that fit within the schemes you want to install and run, rather than react to your division opponents.  So take David Long for instance, if you're a man heavy team that runs a lot of cover 1 or even two deep man, like say the Seahawks or Texans or Patriots, then Long is a natural fit for your scheme.  He'll thrive and really help you dial up blitzes.

 

But on the flip side, if you want to run cover 2 and 3 shells or hybrid zone coverages and either zone blitz or just rush four, like the Panthers, Bears, and Steelers, then Long is not a good fit for you at all, and you should probably pass on him.

 

So what you're doing is creating the system that fits your existing personnel the best, and then going out and adding personnel who fit what you've already got in place to preserve continuity, and not really paying too too much attention to your divisional opponent when designing your scheme.

 

I think we're kind of in the middle in terms of what makes the most sense.  On the one hand, Norman is one of our best and most highly paid players and he is absolutely at his best as a zone corner.  But he's getting older and no one else in the secondary really is.  Landon Collins is an underneath zone/man cover box safety, thus cover 2 and 6 are not ideal.  And I see guys like Moreau and Alexander as being classic press man coverage specialists with only a little bit of cover 3 in their repertoires.  Thus I think playing a press man cover 1 heavy scheme really suits our young guys like Moreau/Alexander/Collins better.  And I also think it suits our philosophy of drafting premium front four talent and using them to generate a rush without blitzing.

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6 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Miami is probably trading their 2nd rounder for Rosen+late rounder.

 

I would have traded our 2nd rounder straight for Rosen and taken Burns/Sweat at 15.  Frankly, we could have traded down to #30 from GB and gotten 2 fourth rounders (what Seattle got from dopping to 21).  We could have traded one of those 4th rounders back to Indy for their 26th and taken Sweat.

 

We would have gotten Sweat+Rosen+4th+our 2020 2nd rounder.

Instead we got Sweat+Haskins.

 

Lots of could haves in your post. I think it went fine without taking on all the risk your situation requires, especially without the benefit of hindsight. 

 

I also prefer Haskins to Rosen, anyways. 

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56 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Edit: SIP, I also don't love Mack or Thompson. I worry however that we are going to get to the point where they tempt the FO if they keep falling. They are exactly, IMHO, both the kind of player that benefits from playing around other really good players.  

 

I think Thompson could be a worthwhile project.  He's not ready, but there is good clay there.  And I think he fits our single high philosophy well, and that in time, he could offer playmaking potential from that part of the field.  That gives him plus value as a deep safety, and puts him in the Kevin Byard end of the spectrum of value.  He's just not going to be able to play next year, or maybe even the year after.

 

Agreed on Wilson, he feels like a JAG.  Coney is the day 3 MIKE I want to get.  I want a grinder with excellent instincts more than I want a coverage specialist who can't make plays in the A and B gaps.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Miami is probably trading their 2nd rounder for Rosen+late rounder.

 

I would have traded our 2nd rounder straight for Rosen and taken Burns/Sweat at 15.  Frankly, we could have traded down to #30 from GB and gotten 2 fourth rounders (what Seattle got from dopping to 21).  We could have traded one of those 4th rounders back to Indy for their 26th and taken Sweat.

 

We would have gotten Sweat+Rosen+4th+our 2020 2nd rounder.

Instead we got Sweat+Haskins.

Well then we wouldn't have gotten Rosen because Miami has the higher 2nd rounder. We would have needed to add to the pot 

 

Ninja edit: Forget about everything I just said. We had the better 2nd rounder 

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Past the top guys, Hall was one of my favorite unheralded guys, a solid potential pick with one of our 3rd rounders... but then he posted that 40 time and now I think he goes before 76.   

 

I think he's a deep threat flanker who doesn't have a lot of slot value.  I like him, but there was some softness in his game that I didn't love.  Body catcher.  Not as physical in the contact window as I thought he'd be given his size.  Disappointing catch radius and ability to make contested catches for a 6'2 receiver.  But his speed is legit.  Great short area quickness and CoD speed.  Build up and open field speed are elite.  He dusted SEC corners.  I think he's better than Terry McLaurin, but that McLaurin is tougher.  The first time I evaluated Hall I was thinking 4th round, but 3rd round shouldn't be out of the question given his extreme speed and explosiveness at a legit 6'2.  Not sure he's as good a fit for us as he would be for other teams though, since our offense tends to be fairly horizontal.

Edited by stevemcqueen1
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Russini with all the craziness got the Haskins thing right.  So here's she is saying receiver.   Granted the point is obvious.   But yeah that's the one to monitor tonight it looks almost for sure. 

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Russini with all the craziness got the Haskins thing right.  So here's she is saying receiver.   Granted the point is obvious.   But yeah that's the one to monitor tonight it looks almost for sure. 

 

 

 

 

And in reference to your question yesterday on which of the local guys was most tapped in, looks like Keim right? I know he sits on just "reports the facts" but I think he was closest.

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