stevemcqueen1

2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Good Lord, that is not encouraging.  Does it say what his 40 time was?

 

He's got excellent size for an End, but when you're not explosive and you can't bend and you're not super powerful/physical, you don't have much of a foundation to win with.  I think he added a bunch of garbage weight to bulk up this past season, and it's made it so he can't run any more.

 

According to 3Sigma, he ran a 4.82 40 with a 1.69 10yard split.  It wasn't just his 3cone that was awful, his Short Shuttle clocked in at 5.12 seconds.  For all of the commentary that DK Metcalf couldn't change direction when he ran similar times to guys like Dez Bryant.  Jaylon Ferguson tested like he literally couldn't change directions.

 

9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I wouldn't take a slot specialist like AJ Brown or a tiny flanker/slot guy like Marquise Brown over bonafide X receivers like Metcalf, Butler, or Harry.  It is so much harder to find a legit X than the other positions.  In a year with three of them in the first to early second round range, you can't justify taking lesser guys at the more replaceable positions.

 

So I just watched some of AJ Brown's film after DK Metcalf got hurt.  I like him more now.  They lined him up almost exclusively as an 'X' in the games I saw.

 

Goto 4:38.  I like this route.  Hesitation step into selling vertical stem towards the boundary side of the corner, to stopping and cutting inside.  He got the corners flips turned and then made his move.

 

A few plays later you see him mistime a 50/50 ball.  Awful throw turning what should be an open/uncontested catch into a jump ball contest with the safety.  He's not a jump ball guy like Doctson, Butler, Harry, JJAW.  But he does maneuver well towards open space and drifts naturally away from safety help.  I think he's got something to work with as an X receiver.

 

 

 

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53 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I know people want edge, OL, TE, WR, hell even QB...I want all that as well and go back and forth on my priority. But we really need a stud FS. Having this potentially great young DL is going to get very frustrating if teams can just stretch the field on us anyways, at will. And they will. We don't want to waste this DL talent, edge and FS are the two spots that can act as serious force multipliers there. 

We blew it when we passed on James last year. Blew it BADLY. At least Payne isn't a bust, but he was never likely to be anywhere close to the prospect James was, illustrated the perils of laser focusing on a positional need w/your first, rather than value. 

 

In terms of this year, I like a lot of guys in that trade down (25th or lower) to 2nd round area. I really like Thornhill, and Adderly. It sounds like we love Savage, but we just signed a guy to a ridiculous contract that basically does what Savage does, so I don't entirely understand the desire for Savage? Hooker seems interesting as well. I don't understand Zierlein's take which seems to imply a lack of explosivness, speed, and athleticism. 83rd Percentile Speed Score. 63rd Percentile Burst Score. 84th percentile Agility Score. What is he talking about? I suppose he's seeing things on film that alarm him, but the combine says he's full of it, that he has all those explosive traits in spades. 

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1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

Love, love, love Warren Sharp, but my exposure is exclusively with his podcast, and interviews he gives on other podcasts. He's fantastic. Love that guy. I never paid for his stuff because if I remember, it's insanely expensive to get access to his material (like fantasylabs which also have some absolutely brilliant analytics guys running the show). Does he put out a cheaper book during the summer? I don't buy books anymore, but I might make an exception for Sharp (for instance, he made an absolute killing last year on the Colts O/U to name one example of his insights, he was all over that, believing people were severely undervaluing the Colts after doing a deep dive into their performance game to game, play to play).  

 

I used Sharp's book to dissect Jay's play-calling in a long post last year.  It's a great tool because he looks at just about every team's tendencies and stacks that to percentage of expected success. 

 

I used to be a teacher's assistant for stats in college so I can appreciate metrics-PFF-Football Outsiders-combine stuff as much as anyone.  I post as much PFF stuff here as anyone else.  I posted most of the pre-combine articles about what combine stats matter for what positions, etc.  When I am looking at prospects especially of late, I am starring at whatever metrics I have.  Right now its Brugler's draft guy which lists for each prospect their production and combine numbers. 

 

I am not saying you are on the opposite side of any of the points i am about to make.  I am just laying out my take about metrics-combine, etc.  The thing is variables change. The past isn't always prologue.  Trends change.   Marquise Brown and other undersized speedy players I contend will be a growing trend thanks to team's growing tendencies to find speed mismatches in open space.    The dominator scale if I recall values speed with height and thereby would be less fans of dude's like Marquise, Tarik Cohen, Hilton, etc.   To them if I recall tall + speed > small + speed. 

 

The dominator scale if I recall values players who eat up a lot of production in the mix of the teams stats.  But what happens though if a team has three stud receivers -- wouldn't that knock down the score of those guys?   That would apply to some teams.   It's not hard to come up with a formula that can lead someone in a certain direction especially if it fits a predisposition like big receivers are more valued than smaller ones.  Or whatever.  For example, I have a study that shows the variable that has the most correlation to success of a receiver is actually the broad jump not the 40 time.  

 

I don't think there is close to a perfect stat to sum up prospects.  You can't IMO run a team like one of those quantitative based mutual funds like Bridgeway where you don't need to study stocks but you just pick the ones that fit the metrics you are looking for.  

 

Also clearly something would have to give in the later rounds.  Picking apart mid and late round prospects by saying they don't have both excellent production-and excellent traits and have a variables we can question so lets pass -- its not hard to rip apart just about any prospect in that range.   In that range the odds that you are going to find a player who was ultra productive and a combine stud is unlikely.   It's very likely something has to give.  Maybe they were super productive but just ordinary at best as to speed-height or maybe the reverse. 

 

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@stevemcqueen1

 

steve, I’ve seen you bat hard for DK on here. I myself have waffled over the idea. I could convince myself it’s a good pick, or a reach. It really could go either way. Imo, we don’t have the ability to land Haskins, should he fall, and DK.

 

Do you think it would be a good idea to try and trade up for a guy like DK if he fell a bit should we land Haskins at 15? 

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34 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I wouldn't take a slot specialist like AJ Brown or a tiny flanker/slot guy like Marquise Brown over bonafide X receivers like Metcalf, Butler, or Harry.  It is so much harder to find a legit X than the other positions.  In a year with three of them in the first to early second round range, you can't justify taking lesser guys at the more replaceable positions.

 

I'm also not against trading up for Haskins.  We need a quarterback.  We can't do anything until we have one, and Haskins is as a legit prospect who might only be obtainable because a bunch of other teams just drafted QBs and the other bad teams seem to be acting really stupid about the position this offseason.  Similar deal to 2017 in that way.  When a top of the draft QB prospect falls, you freaking strike while the iron is hot.  You don't wait until next year.

 

Good Lord, that is not encouraging.  Does it say what his 40 time was?

 

He's got excellent size for an End, but when you're not explosive and you can't bend and you're not super powerful/physical, you don't have much of a foundation to win with.  I think he added a bunch of garbage weight to bulk up this past season, and it's made it so he can't run any more.

Butler, Harry and AJ Brown were all easily at their most productive as Big Slot. Butler's production was heavily tilted towards Big slot usage, not outside usage. Harry is probably the most impressive, has more 20+ yard receptions than Hollywood Brown, and Hribar Charted an in game sequence in which he had 9 consecutive catches running 9 separate routes from distinct personal groupings. I am a big fan of Harry, and he can do a lot, and it wouldn't surprise me if he excelled at X, but after what he did at ASU, it makes sense to line him up all over the place. He knows how to do it and can produce that way. 

 

Hribar went as far as saying NFL teams would be straight up fools to draft Butler and use him as an outside WR. To paraphrase/quote him, "He's a better option to line up inside and run up the seam. He lead the nation in yards per route run from the slot (5.2), 5 of his 9 TD's came from the slot, and he averaged 24.9 yards from the slot. That's where he won in college, the big slot position. If you're an NFL team subjectively drafting him based on the tape, and you don't use him heavily in that role, you're an idiot."

 

As for Metcalf. terrible breakout age, dominator stinks, agility score stinks, and he can run 2 or 3 routes tops. Doesn't make a lot of sense to take him.

 

AJ Brown ran 54% of his routes from the slot, Reception Perceptions Matt Harmon's take on him (Both Matt Kelley and Rich Hribar have him as the #2 WR in the draft)

Link: 

https://www.thefantasyfootballers.com/articles/reception-perception-a-j-brown/

 

, "

Having Brown in a usage plan that has him take a majority of his snaps from the slot would certainly allow his future team’s interior passing game to be maximized. However, I’d contend that Brown will not need to be a strictly inside receiver at the next level. When tasked with defeating press coverage, he showed a variety of release moves to get free off the line. He can also get free in the vertical game. Brown’s buildup speed is obvious and he is perhaps the best receiver in this class at shaking defenders at the stem of his routes. That will make him a chore to cover on deep posts and corners. He’ll wreck seems that way.

Indeed, the best role for Brown is likely a continuation of the resume he’s built as a big slot receiver. However, this is a player that can shine playing flanker at a near 50 percent rate in two-wide sets and may even be able to survive as an X-receiver on occasion, if his release technique continues to develop. Should he operate as a primary slot receiver, he won’t be one of these short-area exclusive threats. He’s a player that will do damage down the field, furthering his case as a player to maximize that slot spot.

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I really don't think Marquise Brown is 166. He looks more solid than that on tape, that's almost Brandon Banks levels of scrawny, and Banks was actually 5'5" and compact (for that weight). Brown isn't that tiny. I think he lost 15+ lbs of good weight recovering from injury/surgery. That would be my guess. He's probably the type of guy who has to work to keep that weight on, but I think he was doing that work, and would do even more in the NFL. 

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37 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

 

Not my person opinion this time. I just react to the news that is leaking out...that he is gaining steam. I don't see anything special to him. 3th or 5th round rb won't be much worse.

 

Np, the sense I get is the Alabama effect will lift him into round 1. He's also got some interesting qualities, he's got that PFF stat (nearly 50% of his runs were for TD's or 1st downs), and he's got people raving about contact balance, and if they're right, that was the exact same trait that had people keeping Hunt high up their boards two years ago after his crummy combine. 

 

But yeah, Sanders is just the better prospect. The knocks, fumbling (generally not a sticky stat if taken from such a small sample size), and dominator/breakout age (who was going to take Saquon's job from him? No sin in failing to pull a JK Dobbins on Barkley) are not relevant. The positives (all 76th percentile or better combine #'s, including an 83rd percentile agility score and the passing game chops to prove it)  are just overwhelming. I don't know how you take a Josh Jacobs ahead of Sanders. Jacobs couldn't beat out Damien Harris, not exactly Saquon Barkley. I don't expect Sanders to be a monster at the next level, just a good starting rb w/passing game chops to disguise play calling decisions and limit roster spots needed for pass catching specialists at RB. We'll see how he does at the next level, but my guess is that he ends up being one of those classic 1250-8 TD's rushing, and 30-50 catches a year, no problem.  

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Thanks to all of todays WR contributions I am comfortable with my top 3

AJ Brown, Harry, Marquise

 

If they don't go WR until late in the 2nd or the 3rd round,  What are the thoughts on Deebo and Isabella playing X?

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36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I used Sharp's book to dissect Jay's play-calling in a long post last year.  It's a great tool because he looks at just about every team's tendencies and stacks that to percentage of expected success. 

 

I used to be a teacher's assistant for stats in college so I can appreciate metrics-PFF-Football Outsiders-combine stuff as much as anyone.  I post as much PFF stuff here as anyone else.  I posted most of the pre-combine articles about what combine stats matter for what positions, etc.  When I am looking at prospects especially of late, I am starring at whatever metrics I have.  Right now its Brugler's draft guy which lists for each prospect their production and combine numbers. 

 

I am not saying you are on the opposite side of any of the points i am about to make.  I am just laying out my take about metrics-combine, etc.  The thing is variables change. The past isn't always prologue.  Trends change.   Marquise Brown and other undersized speedy players I contend will be a growing trend thanks to team's growing tendencies to find speed mismatches in open space.    The dominator scale if I recall values speed with height and thereby would be less fans of dude's like Marquise, Tarik Cohen, Hilton, etc.   To them if I recall tall + speed > small + speed. 

 

The dominator scale if I recall values players who eat up a lot of production in the mix of the teams stats.  But what happens though if a team has three stud receivers -- wouldn't that knock down the score of those guys?   That would apply to some teams.   It's not hard to come up with a formula that can lead someone in a certain direction especially if it fits a predisposition like big receivers are more valued than smaller ones.  Or whatever.  For example, I have a study that shows the variable that has the most correlation to success of a receiver is actually the broad jump not the 40 time.  

 

I don't think there is close to a perfect stat to sum up prospects.  You can't IMO run a team like one of those quantitative based mutual funds like Bridgeway where you don't need to study stocks but you just pick the ones that fit the metrics you are looking for.  

 

Also clearly something would have to give in the later rounds.  Picking apart mid and late round prospects by saying they don't have both excellent production-and excellent traits and have a variables we can question so lets pass -- its not hard to rip apart just about any prospect in that range.   In that range the odds that you are going to find a player who was ultra productive and a combine stud is unlikely.   It's very likely something has to give.  Maybe they were super productive but just ordinary at best as to speed-height or maybe the reverse. 

 

 

Broad jump? That's really odd. What I've read and heard from the people I trust, is that basically, combine isn't as significant with WR's as it is with RB's. Basically as long as your within certain thresholds, you're fine as long as you've got the breakout age and dominator (dominator to a lesser extent, and I agree, I don't like how heavy TD's are in model, as TD's are not a reliably sticky stat). It's RB where the combine really underlines thing.

 

The analytics side of things likes Brown a lot btw, and as I said earlier, Brown has an excuse for his ho-hum breakout age, and Butler does not. Brown went the JUCO route so it was not possible for him to have an early breakout age no matter what he did, and when you add in the fact that he did explode as a JUCO player, and that he did immediately produce for Oklahoma suggests if he had gone to college, he probably would've produced early unless he was held out due to the weight issue. 

 

As for later round guys, you'd kinda be surprised. The NFL is still missing on guys a ton that the geeks have figured out. You know who hated Marlon Mack and Aaron Jones in 2017? Tape Guys. You know who loved them? Analytics geeks (and me). I was screaming bloody murder when both were still available on day 3, then we went with the bowling ball, and I just prayed that his freshman year tape was indicative of his talent, rather than his slug like play in junior year (maybe he was hurt?). Alas, we got the slug and the Colts and Pack stole Mack and Jones. Still curious about Brian Hill and McNichols, the latter seems to be a dead prospect, Tampa Bay's incompetent F.O. kicked him to the curb and he couldn't take advantage of interest from Kyle Shanahan. Hill has bounced around but looks the part. He's a guy who could surprise with an opportunity like Michael Turner did years ago. But yeah, there are guys I like for day 3, and I agree, you aren't going to find perfect anything, but there are always guys that are interesting and worth a look. I've been studying insanely heavily since 2015 just due to Dynasty, and these were my day 3 WR's I was interested in:

 

Hits (in Bold)

Italics (Made Team)

 

2015:

Crowder

Smelter

Diggs

Bell

McBride

 

2016:

Malcolm Mitchell (injury derailed career)

Ricardo Louis

Bad Mike Thomas

Charone Peake

 

2017:

Dede Westbrook

Josh Reynolds

Josh Malone

Robert Davis

Isaiah Ford-can't remember if he stuck or not. I think he stuck for at least a season. 

 

2018:

Coutee

Callaway-loads of potential, hot and cold rookie year with drops & now buried on depth chart

Hamilton

Watson

Lasley

Cain-Exploded in preseason/training camp only to tear his ACL.

ESB-Showed signs of promise down the stretch.

R. James

A. Tate (TE Hybrid)

T. Quinn

 

Take that for what it's worth, of the guys I listed, the guys I really really loved: 

Malcolm Mitchel-Looked like a monster hit until the red flags from college came home to roost (major injury history)

Josh Reynolds-in spot starts he was studly

Antonio Callaway: 1st round grade, 10 cent head. 

D. Hamilton-Excellent slot guy. 

K. Coutee: Slot heaven.

J. Watson: Player comps are elite WR's, huge markers in terms of production, breakout age and combine. Could blow up under Arians. 

ESB-1st round grade in the summer of 2017

T. Quinn-Born to be a slot guy. 

Maybe Josh Malone who I thought and still think, could be a late blooming stud. Word was he was close to passing Ross on the depth chart last year but draft capital derailed that dream. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Thanks to all of todays WR contributions I am comfortable with my top 3

AJ Brown, Harry, Marquise

 

If they don't go WR until late in the 2nd or the 3rd round,  What are the thoughts on Deebo and Isabella playing X?

 

Honestly a great move would be trading up in round 2 if Neal and AJ Brown fall to the bottom of round 1 or into the early 2nd. That would be getting top 15 overall WR talent to me. 

 

I like Deebo and Isabella, though Deebo is a really odd prospect, not sure how he'll be used. 

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Thoughts on Preston Williams?  Kiper has repeatedly said he's got 1st round talent, but major character issues.  From what I gather, he's this year's Antonio Calloway.

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Speaking of metrics, the PFF guys claim their studies indicate that their draft grades on O lineman have the highest correlation of all of their takes on the draft as to future success in the NFL. 

guardspff.png

Screen Shot 2019-04-22 at 5.40.15 PM.png

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SIP I really like the C from Miss St,  Jenkins great player! Not sure we go that way but he will be a starter for years to come!

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Thoughts on these potential trade down ideas at 15 if one the 3 top tackles slips to o-line craving teams:

 

For one of the elite tackles (Taylor, Williams, or Dillard):

1). Carolina 16+100 for 15

2). Houston:  23+55 for 15

3). Minny:  18+81 for 15

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ESPN is doing their traditional mock draft where their beat guys for each team selects for their teams.

 

Keim let it be known last time after the fact that his pick was predicated on a player he knew they liked among others.

 

If that's the case this time then the Redskins like Devin Bush. That's who Keim took. And it was good to see him drop to 15. Maybe there is a chance?😀

 

The Giants reporter on the show is flat out saying that their 2 favorite QBs are Daniel Jones and Drew Lock. He ended up taking Lock.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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1 hour ago, actorguy1 said:

I don't know if I can make it to Thursday night. I have smokescreen fatigue. Give me strength fam!

 

Believe nothing! Like Tandler used to say, Watch what they do not what they say...

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2 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Do you think it would be a good idea to try and trade up for a guy like DK if he fell a bit should we land Haskins at 15?  

 

I don't think so.  Reason being I don't really like the idea of significantly trading up for any position other than QB.  But I suppose it really comes down to the cost of the move.  Last year we moved down in the second to jump up from a fifth to a third.  I would do the reverse of that to get Metcalf if he dropped all of the way to the second.

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4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I think IF we were in the market to do that move to #3 we'd have to ship out a key player as part of the deal. Can't see the logic, unless the owner is in love with Haskins of course....

Or RG lV....Kyler Murray?

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Here is a ranking of QBs from supposed decision makers.  I'll purposely selecting here some comments that resonate with me but there is a lot more to the article, worth a read.  I am skipping Murray since I think he's not a possibility.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027519/article/2019-nfl-draft-league-execs-scouts-coaches-assess-qb-class

2019 NFL Draft: League execs, scouts, coaches assess QB class

 

2) Drew Lock, Missouri

 

Composite projection: Round 1

The cannon arm is just one reason multiple coaches' assessments of Lock included a reference to the reigning NFL MVP. "Drew Lock is probably the most arm talent (in the draft), but he is (Patrick) Mahomes-like in that you think he's a year away, and you've got to really rein him in in terms of footwork and all those type of things, where he's not going to be ready right away," one offensive coordinator said. "All of his above-the-neck stuff checks out. It's not going to be perfect. There's a learning curve, but I think he'll get there."

Like Mahomes coming out of Texas Tech two years ago,

 

...Footwork was a big focus of his pre-draft work with former NFL QB Jordan Palmer. "He'll make a throw off his back foot, three dudes in his face -- just plug a guy who's not even open, put it right on his face," a QBs coach said, "and (then he'll) have a guy wide open and he's got no pass rush, he's got a clean pocket, and he's going to throw it the exact same way. He makes it a lot harder than it needs to be, but he can make hard throws that other guys can't throw."

 

3) Dwayne Haskins, Ohio State

 

Composite projection: Round 1

 

One offensive coordinator called Haskins the best passer in the draft, but quickly echoed the biggest concern scouts and coaches have: "He cannot move." It's not about running, which Haskins did sparingly for the Buckeyes, but his ability to slide around well enough in and out of the pocket to survive against NFL defenses. "Haskins has a quick arm, but he's got slow feet," another coach said. "He moves a little bit, but when you're like that, everything with your mind and your arm has to be perfect. You don't have the margin for error."

 

..."He's a little more of a pocket passer with a wide stride to him, and he gets flat-footed."

 

As one executive pointed out before the combine, Haskins' tape shows a lot of pre-snap decisions, which he often could get away with in the more wide-open college game because his arm is so good. Reviews are mixed on Haskins' personality -- some see a good, quiet confidence, while others say they'd like a little more juice. Two other OCs said they consider Haskins a risky bet because of his small body of work, which means less film showing how he functions under duress. "There's some questions about leadership and whether he can really carry the team, or if he was asked to carry the team there," an AFC scout said. "You're talking about one year of film. If he's surrounded by lesser talent, how good is he without some of those guys catching the balls and making some big-time runs?

 

4) Daniel Jones, Duke

 

Composite projection: Round 1

Some NFL people rank Jones as the No. 1 QB in the class. Others don't have him in the top five. Jones (6-5 1/8, 221) is polarizing for a variety of reasons, including his training under David Cutcliffe, who also coached Peyton and Eli Manning. Is he more equipped to play immediately because of his experience in a pro-style offense? Or has he been coached so well that he's already closer to his ceiling than the others?

 

Jones' athletic ability is good, though his feet don't always match. His arm is average to slightly above, so he's probably a better fit for a West Coast, timing-type offense than one that pushes the ball vertically. He's a different personality -- think Eli Manning, with a little less pizzazz...

 

5) Will Grier, West Virginia

 

Composite projection: Round 2-3

If anyone has a chance to be a surprise pick in Round 1, it's Grier -- though most have him at the front of the second tier. "He's just a little bit older (24), a little more mature, a little ahead of the other kids," an NFC scouting director said. "And the guy's a good thrower." Said another high-ranking scout: "I just think he's a notch below on everything -- arm talent, athlete. There's a little more development period with him."

 

Grier put up big numbers over two years with the Mountaineers -- including 71 TD passes against 20 interceptions -- though the nature of their offense was a factor in his high completion rate (67 percent in 2018). Those who like Grier (6-2 1/2, 217) point out he made big throws in big games, citing stuff like his 539-yard, four-TD outing last season in a 59-56 shootout loss to Murray and Oklahoma. "Grier just has it," a QBs coach said. "I really liked his film. And then when you meet with him, you see him throw live, you see him interact with people -- you're like, you want this guy around you. He's got a great personality. He's super smart. He doesn't come from a real complex system, but his base football knowledge is very good. He's very confident."

 

6) Ryan Finley, North Carolina State

 

Composite projection: Round 2-3

More than any other, this is the name NFL people kept telling me to move up the board. Several coaches and executives referred to Finley as a Day 2 lock. "It wouldn't shock me if somebody took him earlier, just because you see some of the stuff on third downs where he's making plays and throws and reads that look like what you run in an NFL system," a QBs coach said. "He's a better athlete than I expected him to be, just seeing a tall, skinny guy. He's got a light frame (6-4, 213), which doesn't bode well right now. Just in terms of the passing game, you see a lot from him."

 

... "To me, Finley is better than Grier," an offensive coordinator said. "Because he's accurate, he throws on time and he's tall. 

 

...His arm is good but not great. One NFC scout said it shows up when Finley tries to drive the ball deep to the opposite hash and his velocity wanes downfield.

 

...One AFC scout's comp for Finley: Kirk Cousins. "Knows how to read coverages, kind of a game manager, takes care of the ball, execute the offense, throw the ball accurately," the scout said. "He just doesn't have a big arm, and he's lean -- you wonder how he's going to hold up. He'll need some talent around him."

 

7) Jarrett Stidham, Auburn

 

Composite projection: Round 3-4

Gifted natural passer who was in the conversation as one of this class' top prospects before a rough redshirt junior season last fall, during which Stidham completed a career-worst 60.7 percent of his passes and Auburn coach Gus Malzahn faced questions about whether the QB would be benched. An AFC scouting director said "everything postseason here, the all-star game, the combine -- all of it's been positive" for Stidham, though some scouts felt the Senior Bowl showing was underwhelming.

 

Those who have gone back through the tape say they're left wanting more, given that Stidham (6-2 3/8, 218) has all the tools. One coach's description of Stidham sounds a lot like the scouting report on former Vikings first-round pick Christian Ponder coming out of Florida State. "Great guy, looks great in workouts, can throw the s--- out of the ball," the coach said, "but when it's live bullets and if his first read's not open, his eyes go down and he starts to scramble."

 

...But I just thought whenever he had to reload and come to the back-side third or fourth read, he'd get [frazzled]. If you keep it simple for him, he'll look great and throw some dimes."

 

...This son of a gun keeps getting up. And he spins it as well as anybody. Him and Lock are the guys that throw it the best, just purely out of their hands. And there's something to it with the accuracy and what Stidham can do."

 

 

 
Edited by Skinsinparadise
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2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Thoughts on Preston Williams?  Kiper has repeatedly said he's got 1st round talent, but major character issues.  From what I gather, he's this year's Antonio Calloway.

 

Combine was horrific, market share #'s/dominator are excellent (90th percentile), breakout age sucks (27th percentile). 

 

I have no opinion. I haven't paid him any attention. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah if this isn't real then either someone from the Redskins is purposely leaking it for whatever reason or the Jets are leaking it to find a trade partner.    Because this idea that the Redskins is the team most opt to trade up is all over the place and going on for a long time.  The beat guys for the team don't seem as convinced but aren't ruling it out.  

 

Only reason I could see them doing it is if Murray drops and Jay would want to get in front of his brother at #4, right?

 

Meanwhile, still doing some work.

 

 

Good read.

 

 

Interesting.

 

 

Edited by HigSkin
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Quote

Honestly a great move would be trading up in round 2 if Neal and AJ Brown fall to the bottom of round 1 or into the early 2nd. That would be getting top 15 overall WR talent to me. 

 

I like Deebo and Isabella, though Deebo is a really odd prospect, not sure how he'll be used. 

Either AJ or Harry at the bottom of 1 or top of 2 would be great value.

Deebo has been a favorite of mine for some time now. I feel like he can do it all. Just not as fast or big as some of the others.

I feel like Isabella even though short is built like a RB, is explosive, speed, motor, good ball tracking, hard to cover and he can block.  He won't live in the slot as he has the ability to play inside or outside. I can see him being selected in the 2nd round and be a favorite reliable target of his future QB. 

Edited by DWinzit

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6 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I seriously doubt the first QB doesn't come off the board until #3 though. That would be surprising. 

 

I dont disagree. But this year just feels unique for me. I always had a suspicion that Murray to Cards wasn't as done a deal as everyone thought it was. For two reasons. One being that there seems to be a few guys at the top that are Defensive Player of the Year type talent. Build around your defense types. Guys like Bosa/Williams/Oliver/Allen seem to be in the mold of elite defensive cornerstone based off of what I have read. So there is absolutely a heavy opportunity cost to weigh here, which is if they take Murray, they no longer have the chance to add a stud defender. And there always HAD to be a legitimate discussion among the top brass over what's better, Murray and a third, or Rosen and the top pick in the entire draft. That conversation becomes a little more intriguing if its Murray and a 2nd. Hence all the rumors from different teams being "the ones" in the Rosen sweepstakes yet Arizona has made no "official" calls to teams around the league.

 

Another reason though is Murray himself. He's dynamic I get it. He's Kingsbury's wet dream, I know. But at the end of the day he's a 5'10 QB with one year of production and Baseball to turn to. If he were Andrew Luck can't miss then I would have bought Murray to Cards day one. And if this draft wasn't as strong at the top I'd get it. But it's certainly not slam dunk which is what I believe we see playing out before our very eyes. They don't even know which direction they want to go. 

 

So if he falls, then why trade to 2 when it's most likely the Raiders at 4 that you want to jump in front of? That's a reason I think you hear a lot of Jets are interested in trading back rumors. They are likely gauging interest in their pick with the realization that Murray very well would slide past 2 if he slides past 1. 

 

I won't be shocked either way. And I certainly wouldn't be shocked if Snyder said F it again and went to 3 for him. He makes his boldest moves in the lowest of lows. And things are feeling pretty low after last year's collapse and heightened fan apathy. Just saying...

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Hmm, JLC says that the Jets and Lions want to move down and that the Falcons want to move up (have posted potential trade ups for ATL in my mocks).  JLC says that the Falcons like Wilkins (makes sense considering Miami probably takes him).  I still have no idea who moves up to 3.  The Bills make the most sense, but do the Jets want to trade with the division and face Q. Williams/Josh Allen twice a year?

 

The Bills traded 2 2nd rounders to move up with TB last year, but that was for a QB.  My guess is that the trade would be 14+45 for 8+88.  I think Detroit could take Burns at 14 or the CB of their choice.  

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