2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Call me consistent, but buying high (Rosen) for a QB that wasn't good in his rookie campaign when the HC is on the hot seat and the GM should be is a bad move. Likewise, grabbing a QB in the draft just because you have to grab a QB is a bad move. The consensus was that this is a poor QB year which suggests that almost any QB pick in the first is going to be a reach and not a value pick. Given our needs at linebacker, guard, safety, wide receiver, and elsewhere, we are so much better getting a great prospect at another position than a QB who just happens to be there.

 

No to Rosen. No to first round QBs.

 

Mind you, part of me wants us to have a 2-14 or 4-12 season so we can clean house. Alternatively, Case has shown if well surrounded he can be good enough to get you to a deep playoff run. That's one more reason not to gamble on a QB with greater odds of busting than being great.

 

I am close to this point.  I don't mind gambling on Rosen if it doesn't require a first.  But i am totally against it if it demands a first.    Rosen had red flags coming out in the 2018 draft (granted who doesn't) and some of those red flags were exposed in season 1.  I'll give him that his supporting cast and coaching stunk.  But I am not in the camp of giving him a full pass on all of it.    The 15th pick in this draft I think likely is going to be very valuable and I want to keep it.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Here's what I think is realistic, and I would like to have happen.

 

Trade 2.14 and 2020 3rd round pick to Arizona for Josh Rosen

Trade 1.15 back a bit to draft an offensive playmaker. Good match in this scenario is Baltimore at 1.22 ... and get their 3rd round comp pick. Ravens take Ferrell at 15.

 

1.22: AJ Brown, WR Ole Miss

3.12: Christian Miller, Edge Alabama

3.32: Michael Deiter, T/G Wisconsin

3.38: Terrill Hanks, ILB New Mexico State

5.15: Kaden Smith, TE Stanford

5.35: Jimmy Moreland, CB James Madison

6.33: Rennel Wren, DL Arizona State

7.13: Mark McLaurin, S Miss. State

7.39: Carl Granderson, Edge Wyoming

 

I would love ^

 

[HigSkin]

Cool....

 

 

[Est.1974]

Green and Jacoby will need to double up on our third round picks once we've shipped our second out for Rosen 

[nonniey]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

.....   The 15th pick in this draft I think likely is going to be very valuable and I want to keep it.

I'm in the trade it category for future picks.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

Mind you, part of me wants us to have a 2-14 or 4-12 season so we can clean house. Alternatively, Case has shown if well surrounded he can be good enough to get you to a deep playoff run. That's one more reason not to gamble on a QB with greater odds of busting than being great.

 

So you're waffling along the line there.  If you cross the line, you sort of have to go to an awkward extreme to maximize future potential.  A tankathon sort of necessitates cutting or trading:  Trent Williams, Josh Norman, Ryan Kerrigan, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed, Josh Doctson, Matt Ioannidis, and Brandon Scherff.

 

That's a rough pill to swallow.  It would set up the 2020 and 2021 off-seasons with loads of draft capital and cap room, but the cupboard would be about as bare as possible.

[JaxJoe]

On 4/2/2019 at 1:18 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

In particular if they acquire Rosen, I think you need strong dudes who can win on contested throws.  Harry would be that guy.  Butler, too.   I've seen multiple draft geeks compare Harry to Michael Thomas. 

I agree and might add Harry would also be a favorable target for Drew Lock in that he too throws into tighter coverage. On the contrary, I think Kyler Murray and Dwayne Haskins would favor a speedster receiver like Perry Campbell or Emanuel Hall because much of those QBs’ success was finding the grossly wide-open receivers.

 

So, my belief is if we acquired Rosen or Lock, I tend to favor a bigger body physical receiver and we might be able to live with Doctson. But if we draft Haskins or Murray, I think we need to draft two burners like Campbell and Hall to go with Richardson. Two very different draft strategies. 

 

My two cents. 

[JaxJoe]

On 4/3/2019 at 3:43 PM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Keep in mind, he's the youngest upper tier Edge prospect in the draft, and he tested/moved well at the combine at 249, when his playing weight was rumored to be 230-ish?  If he holds that weight well, does that help his run game.  He is young, he's not old enough to drink yet.  His 21st birthday is April 23rd.

This is a very good point about Burns. Looking at the cut-ups on you tube, he reminds me of a 2017 Montez Sweat before he beefed up in 2018 and had a great season. My one beef with Burns is it appears that if the play is not on his side of the field, he just stops. That might be coaching, though, and not laziness. He also doesn't appear to have a great recognition of where the play is going. For instance, Polite and Sweat are great at disengaging and racing out to the flat on screens. Not so much with Burns. More experience and playtime will make Burns better as I know he can. If you put a gun to my head, I’d rather have Polite now, but I’m also comfortable with the belief that Burns has a higher ceiling. 

[JoggingGod]

Polite is simply not a day 1 or 2 pick.

[DWinzit]

Going into the combine my favorite prospects were Devin White, Hockenson, Polite and  Sweat in that order. Polite has def fallen I think into the 3rd or 4th round.I hope he has a positive workout and maybe weigh in before the draft or he could fall further. What a shame!

Through the boards discussions I have warmed to Burns but I would have a hard time with him at 15. If any of the other 3 found their way the 15 I would pull the trigger. Early on it looked like all would be there, now I do not believe any will survive until 15. 

 

If they were forced to make a selection at 15 with the above off the board the decision would need to be do we go:

ILB Bush - he is more like a 20th pick but after him a huge drop off-same with edge

Offensive weapon - I think if Hocks gone it would go Fant or Harry

Best OL - Their top T who can start at G

DB - probably could grab your top CB (mine is Murphy only at 15, then Williams, Baker, Ya-Sin later)) or S (mine is Rapp and Adderly (but its too early at 15)

 

I really don't like using a 1st rounder on a QB. I think Haskins free falls it to 15....but I hope not.   

If they don't get Rosen in a trade I hope think they will be forced to go with Case and Colt. Perhaps a Minshaw, Stidham Finley or Rypien will drop into the 5th or 6th and they can potentially grab them and place them on the PS. I would rather they take whoever they like in the 3rd...Grier, Jones or whoever if they fall and keep 3 QB's active to start the year.  this is  not Jays MO.

 

 

 

[volsmet]

It’s amusing to see these people act as if Murray was always their top QB, when, in reality, I didn’t see many with him at QB1 when he last played football in front of humans. 

 

JOSH ROSENQB, ARIZONA CARDINALS

Bleacher Report's Matt Miller reports the Cardinals have "at least two offers" for Josh Rosen.

The Cardinals are trying to "save face" and get as a close to a first-rounder as possible for Rosen. That's unlikely after Rosen's rookie struggles, but teams could up their offers closer to the draft. Rosen has a more polished track record than every non-Kyler Murray quarterback in this year's class, but Arizona has backed themselves into a must-trade situation. They're likely going to have to settle for a Day 2 pick.

SOURCE: Bleacher Report

 

🧐

 

 

I’m puzzled by those who would take Lock or Haskins at 15 but not trade that pick for Rosen. 

 

[mistertim]

How does Murray have a "polished track record"? He's a one year wonder. An extremely gifted one year wonder, but still he doesn't have much of a track record at all. Another thing that seems to get lost in all the hype is that Murray also had some amazing talent around him. Great receiving threats including a 1st round WR this year in Brown and a likely 1st rounder next year in CeeDee Lamb, and one of the best pass pro OLs in CFB. 

 

That last point is true of all 3 of the top guys this season. Murray, Haskins, and Lock all had top OLs that were some of the best in the nation. 

[dyst]

We definetly should not consider trading our 1st for Rosen. Why the hell would anyone trade a 1st for him. He hasn’t shown anything and the  Cardinals do not have the upperhand.

 

I don’t even know why anyone would trade a 2nd for him. What the hell has he shown to make you want to give up a second round pick for him? Not saying he will suck for his entire career but what did he show last year that would make anyone even think anout trading a 2nd for him?

 

Only way I trade our 1st this year is if they give us Rosen and their own 1st round pick in 2020 (giving us 2 #1s next year). Samw concept for a 2nd and 3rd round pick. This guy hasn’t proven anything. I’m not doing a high pick for him at all. If Arizona wants a high pick this year then give us the equivalent next year + Rosen.

 

When there was talk of Kirk being traded, people were saying at most we’d get was a 2nd round pick. WTF would Kirk be worth a 2nd and this guy a possible 1st. 

 

I get the Cards want that, but teams have to be smarter than that if they trade for him.

 

 

[TheGoodBits]

8 hours ago, dyst said:

We definetly should not consider trading our 1st for Rosen. Why the hell would anyone trade a 1st for him. He hasn’t shown anything 

 

 Not saying he will suck for his entire career but what did he show last year that would make anyone even think anout trading a 2nd for him?

 

This guy hasn’t proven anything. 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason there are a lot of teams interested is his contract... 3 years of team control at like $2.5m/yr. 

 

And in regards to not showing or proving anything, there are exactly zero prospects in this draft or any draft that have shown or proven anything at the NFL level. It’s all projection... and at a very basic level trying to make an educated guess about a player and his upside. 

 

Rosen’s worth at least our 2nd and a future pick, if for no other reasons than he was considered good enough a year ago to be drafted 10 overall, he’s still under team control for 3 years at a low cost, and the cost of obtaining him is fairly low (relative to say, trading up into the top 10 for a QB prospect who could easily turn out to be no better than Rosen). 

[dyst]

36 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

 

 

 

The reason there are a lot of teams interested is his contract... 3 years of team control at like $2.5m/yr. 

 

And in regards to not showing or proving anything, there are exactly zero prospects in this draft or any draft that have shown or proven anything at the NFL level. It’s all projection... and at a very basic level trying to make an educated guess about a player and his upside. 

 

Rosen’s worth at least our 2nd and a future pick, if for no other reasons than he was considered good enough a year ago to be drafted 10 overall, he’s still under team control for 3 years at a low cost, and the cost of obtaining him is fairly low (relative to say, trading up into the top 10 for a QB prospect who could easily turn out to be no better than Rosen). 

This isn’t a rookie RG3 who domimated the league and won rookie of the year...all of a sudden being on the trading block as a young QB to give up a 1st for.

 

Or even a guy like Kirk who flashed way more in his rookie year against the Ravens and the Browns. Maybe a guy like, you say “ok, we’ll risk a 2nd round pick for”.

 

Rosen didn’t do anything even close to either of those two guys and yet there is talk of a 1st rounder? If he flashed even a little then it would make sense but he didn’t even do that. If he flashed even a little, there is no way he would be on the trading block. 

 

He was the number #10 pick overall last year and now the team that drafted him is willing to trade him one year later for an unproven (at least in the NFL) under-sized non-traditional QB in Murray and all the analyst have no qualms with it. Most people think it makes sense. 

 

Rosen is suppose to be this great young QB on a rookie deal with great potential for every team except for the Cardinals. It just doesn’t compute. 

 

I would trade for Rosen, God knows we need a young QB but I would not trade our 1st or even a 2nd straight up for him.  That is way to high for what he showed last year + the Cardinals are not in the driving seat here. 

[volsmet]

9 hours ago, dyst said:

 

When there was talk of Kirk being traded, people were saying at most we’d get was a 2nd round pick. WTF would Kirk be worth a 2nd and this guy a possible 1st. 

 

 

Kirk is worse at football than Rosen and a tad more expensive. It was clear all along that the Smith trade was ridiculous & that signing Kirk was an atrocious option. Thanks to a fortuitous Smith injury, Kirk signing elsewhere, & AZ hiring an imbecile, we have the ability to add a QB with top 5 potential with nearly no cap hit. The opportunity to get QBs as gifted as Rosen are rare, the fact that humans are morons is something we should be eager to take advantage of; unfortunately, we are dumber than everyone else. 

 

If you don’t think Rosen is better than Kirk, right now, it is because you are wrong. 

 

21 years old, on a roster of trash, v the playoff bound Seahawks. 

 

 

[volsmet]

9 minutes ago, dyst said:

 

He was the number #10 pick overall last year and now the team that drafted him is willing to trade him one year later for an unproven (at least in the NFL) under-sized non-traditional QB in Murray and all the analyst have no qualms with it. Most people think it makes sense. 

 

 

 

Zero people thought it made sense before they found out it was likely to happen. That’s Jonestown, not free thought. 

 

In January most draft “experts” didn’t think Murray belonged in round 1 at all & now they all act as if they’ve believed in Murray all along. They believe what they are told to believe. All of these goofballs don’t have the same “big boards” because they all see the same thing, they’re largely group-think clueless cowards ... they all happen to have the exact same busts every year, how strange. 

 

 

[hogdirty]

I don't see Arizona trading Rosen at all. These are just a bunch of fake rumors from wanna be insiders.

I believe the Skins have better chance of landing Haskins or Murray.  I see 60% chance of Skins getting Haskins and a 25 or 30% chance of Skins getting Murray.  I have no problem with the team trading up to get one of these guys

[Skinsinparadise]

I posted these thoughts just now as well on the QB thread as to Rosen.  Just listened to a podcast which interviewed an Arizona reporter who covered him.  I have to admit I did like what he said because it sort of fit my thinking. 😀  For starters to quote him -- giving up a first for Rosen is "way too much".  He did see specific flaws in his game that had nothing to do with the Arizona supporting cast.  He talked about him taking too long to process things on the field and being late on throws which allowed defenders to sit on some of his throws.  He wasn't put off by his personality but said some might be because he comes off very arrogant even after losses (that kind of gave me an RG3 flashback).  On a positive note, he saw the supporting cast as an issue and could absolutely see him working out as a player. 

 

The weird thing about Rosen is his best game arguably was his first one versus Seattle.   His 2nd game against Seattle IMO was horrendous among others.    But I am not far off from the crowd who want to give him a break for last season.  My concerns about him is about his UCLA tape.  Now some give him excuses for that too which is similar to Arizona -- poor supporting cast, coordinators.  Not that he played poorly in UCLA.  But IMO he was nothing special albeit he showed special traits in the soup.

 

I guess I am somewhere between the gushing about Rosen crowd and those who want nothing to do with him.    I can see the dude working out but red flags to me are evident as heck.  No way for me -- zero temptation to give up a first rounder for him.   But if its a 2nd rounder what the heck?  Any QB you are taking in that round is naturally a bit of a flier anyway.  

 

My gut right now is we came out of this off season with either Rosen, Grier or Finley.   The Arizona reporter does think Rosen will be dealt.   For those who seem to think he will be dealt the consensus though is it will go down on draft day.  If you trade Rosen now and lets say Murray gets hurt in a workout or whatever then why take the risk (granted Rosen could get hurt too) and maybe the desperation creeps in more on draft day if the board doesn't fold the way that some teams want, etc.  Who knows.  But that seems to be the current take by most.

[Skinsinparadise]

Random thought relating to Keim's article today where he repeats the win now mantra for this season.  It makes me rethink the later round QB -- what would be the point of a developmental QB.  Maybe Jay meant it when he said more or less Lock would be ready and Haskins not yet.  I gather Rosen has one year experience so they'd like that.  So if they go QB -- Lock or Rosen?

 

Jay Gruden: Redskins must 'win now' -- and top pick has to make impact

 

PHOENIX -- The Washington Redskins haven't made the playoffs in three years, which means one thing: They need to win now. And though they need a quarterback, finding one in the first round of the NFL draft might not accomplish that desire.

That's why other spots could be higher on their to-do list with the 15th pick in the draft, which is April 25-27 (ESPN and ESPN App) in Nashville, Tennessee.

If the Redskins add a quarterback, coach Jay Gruden provided insight into what he's expecting:

"There is no developmental process here," Gruden said. "This is not Triple-A baseball; we're [not] trying to develop a pitcher here. We're trying to win a game right now. If we draft a quarterback in the first, second, third or seventh rounds and he's going to start Day 1, we expect great things from him.

 

"Players will expect great things from him. Ryan Kerrigan is not expecting us to come out and 'let's build for the future.' We've got to win now. Josh Norman, same way. Landon Collinsdid not come here to be good in 2034. They came here to be good and compete to win a Super Bowl this year."

At No. 15, there's no guarantee a quarterback they like falls to them -- let alone one ready to start. The Redskins do have Colt McCoy and Case Keenum, but they need a long-term answer at quarterback with Alex Smith's future in doubt. And there's a solid chance they end up trading for Arizona quarterback Josh Rosen.

With Gruden likely entering the season on the hot seat, he needs immediate help from the first-round pick.

"Every one of these coaches feel they have to win now," Redskins president Bruce Allen said at the recent NFL owners meetings in Arizona.

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/38325/jay-gruden-redskins-must-win-now-need-impact-from-top-pick

 

 

I agree with Keim's point below.  Brian Burns IMO would be that guy.

... They had many coverage issues, but they lacked a speed rusher who could instantly threaten a quarterback. They can find one at No. 15.

 

[volsmet]

Good news for SIP.

 

• 

  DANIEL JONESQB, DUKE BLUE DEVILS

  

  ESPN's Adam Schefter reports Duke QB Daniel Jones met with the Giants, Broncos, Dolphins, Chargers, and Washington.

  Schefter noted that all teams had private meetings and workouts with Jones (6'5/220). These are pretty much all of the teams who are rumored to be interested in selecting a quarterback early in the NFL Draft. Jones' stock is all over the place at the moment with a top-15 selection seemingly in play. Former NFL personnel man Greg Gabriel believes there's "no way" Jones even falls to No. 17 overall. It'll be tough to know exactly where Jones will land but with this much interest from teams holding high draft picks it's tough to believe he'll make it out of the first round.

  SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

  Apr 6, 2019, 11:43 AM

[nonniey]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Random thought relating to Keim's article today where he repeats the win now mantra for this season.  It makes me rethink the later round QB -- what would be the point of a developmental QB.  Maybe Jay meant it when he said more or less Lock would be ready and Haskins not yet.  I gather Rosen has one year experience so they'd like that.  So if they go QB -- Lock or Rosen?

 

 

We must win now argues for no QB at all or a development in case we actually do win now. That means definitely no Lock unless somehow he is there in the 2d.  So it will be Rosen or a Rookie outside the 1st that sits on the bench as our #2 or even #3.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Good news for SIP.

 

• 

  DANIEL JONESQB, DUKE BLUE DEVILS

  

  ESPN's Adam Schefter reports Duke QB Daniel Jones met with the Giants, Broncos, Dolphins, Chargers, and Washington.

   

 

If Jay is really all about win now.  And Daniel Jones is the guy then they almost have to draft a big dude or fast dude who is about YAC who thrives with underneath throws like Paris Campbell or N' Keal Harry since Jones' sweet spot-range is in the flat about 5 yards from the line of scrimmage.  😀

 

If they Giants trade up for him or heck even take him at 17 it would make my draft night.

5 minutes ago, nonniey said:

We must win now argues for no QB at all or a development in case we actually do win now. That means definitely no Lock unless somehow he is there in the 2d.  So it will be Rosen or a Rookie outside the 1st that sits on the bench as our #2 or even #3.

 

Who knows?  But I am riding though on Jay flat out saying that Lock is the type of QB who can win now.  I am not speculating on that.  Maybe Jay didn't mean it but he more or less said something like that.

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim is typically plugged in so I take this as a heavy hint its unlikely they go O line in round 1

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/38325/jay-gruden-redskins-must-win-now-need-impact-from-top-pick

 

Offensive line: It's hard to imagine Washington going this direction with the first-round pick. The Redskins do need line depth after enduring two consecutive years of heavy injuries along the front. They also could use more competition at left guard, where they hope Ereck Flowers can become a quality player there after transitioning from tackle. But it's not a spot they must address in the first round, not with a need -- and the ability -- to add a playmaker on either side of the ball.

[RWJ]

Know what gets me.  Schefter either needs to address the NFL by their 1st name or their last names (i.e., Washington, New York or Redskins, Jets etc.).