2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

If the Cards take Murray, it's not certain they'd move on from Rosen unless someone gives them a second rounder, as there would be plenty of time in the day to get that second rounder. 

 

I think the problem with this is that if the Cards wait until after the draft then not only will their list of suitors for a Rosen trade probably go down due to at least one or two of the teams potentially in the mix for Rosen at the moment taking themselves out of that by drafting a QB but they'll also have less leverage due to the fact that basically now everyone knows they need to move Rosen. Sure they could keep him as a backup but that would be a ridiculous and untenable situation IMO. 

 

Their leverage for Rosen is at its highest pre-draft. I think they're going to have to move him before the draft or what they'll get for him will inevitably go down.

[TheShredder]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

I think the problem with this is that if the Cards wait until after the draft

You quoted me, but didn't say anything about waiting until after the draft.  The point is that they don't have to pull the trigger on moving Rosen if they're not getting what they are targeting for him until at least the end of the 1st round because they would still have time to get a second rounder.  It will be more telling what the Giants do at #6 then it would be telling for what the Cards do at #1.  Logic is that if they want at least a second rounder or better for Rosen then there's plenty of time for them to try and get that. 

[TheShredder]

5 hours ago, PlayAction said:

It's always interesting to see some of the NFL mock drafts.  Here is Bucky Brooks' beginning with pick 15.   Given the players on the board from 15-32 I don't think I would want the Skins to choose Marquise Brown.  Ideally, I would hope the Skins trade down but if that's not possible I think I might choose one of the CBs as the best value for the Skins (Byron Murphy or Greedy Williams). 

 

15.  Marquise Brown - WR

Brown is arguably the best deep threat in the 2019 NFL Draft as a speedster with exceptional quickness and burst. He could play in the slot or give Washington another weapon on the outside.

Marquise Brown made Baker Mayfield and Kyler Murray better QB's. 

Theirs countless number of short passes to MB that he took to the house.  Talk about separation...he's definitely DJacks level of take the top off WR.  Absolutely need to have this in the Skins Offense.  I'd speculate that if you don't take Marquise Brown when he's available then you'll miss out on a player that would have changed your franchise.  Skins need that over the top threat and he'll likely be available to them with their 1st round pick.  Gotta take him if he's there.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I think I take everything with a grain of salt right now. How much do they really love Murray? They've got to know there's almost zero chance of them getting him so why not heap praise on him and let it be known that great they think he is...

 

I could see Jay liking Haskins since he is very clean, seems to go through progressions and read defenses well, and has nice mechanics...but the lack of experience is a ding there for him with Jay I'm guessing. 

 

I could definitely see Jay liking Rosen. Smooth, almost flawless footwork, great throwing mechanics, experience in multiple pro style offenses, very cerebral QB. They might not have said much of anything about him before the draft last year but that was because there was basically a 0% chance of us getting him. We had signed AS and basically there was no chance Rosen would drop to us anyway.

 

Lock I'm not sure on. Jay doesn't seem to put a ton of stock in a guy needing a cannon which IMO is Lock's biggest selling point. 

 

 

I think the Murray love is likely real. It came from the get go before it became obvious the Cards would take him. He by a mile has been the Qb that they heaped the most praise on to beat guys. And its been running from the get go, even before he officially announced.

 

To play devils advocate on the others:

 

A. Haskins- Jay might have concerns about the style and simple routes his offense had. And a qb who is average at best as to moving in the pocket as to his foot work and who was heavily reliant on major YAC (from a great supporting cast) from screens, shallow crossers, various mesh concepts - might struggle with this supporting cast. So maybe thats why Jay wouldnt think he'd be ready.

 

B. Rosen - agree on the footwork, the dude looks like a ballerina out there. But wonder about concerns with turnovers.  Some seem to think him being careless with the ball was an Arizona thing but nope some of those tendencies was shown in UCLA, too. Throwing the ball into coverage, when receivers aren't open. Fumbles like crazy. Takes a lot of sacks. Throws a lot of picks. Dont know if the Redskins scouts believe the reports that Rosen doesnt work hard.  So Rosen I think might have potential strikes.

 

C. As for Lock, you like hammering him about having good protection. But he also had a ton of drops from receivers. If I recall he had the most drops or close to it among the higher ranked eligible qbs in this draft. Saw someone on twitter defend Jones by citing drops but their stat showed it still wasn't as many as the drops for Lock.  If Jay doesn't like Lock, I'd guess its for his inconsistency which includes poor touch on short throws especially under pressure.

 

To me I think Lock and Rosen have similarities in that they are both gun slingers at times. They can be wildly inconsistent and make some really bad decisions. Both like going long. Both miss at times some of the easier short throws. I like Rosen's footwork and release better. I like Lock's arm and ability to throw on the move better. If I had to take one I'd take Lock.  Both to me are boom or bust but the boom would take time.

 

As for Jay, it wouldn't shock me if he isn't in love with any of the three if the motto truly is win or bust in 2019. Hard for me to see any of those three having instant success. On the other hand, Murray will likely play out of the shot gun and run a mostly spread offense so I can see him having instant success. And while I agree Jay isnt a spread offense type. And like you I am surprised that he'd like Murray that much but I can see him being tantalized by the dude's mega accuracy.

 

We hear no mention of Ryan Finley connected to them. But he seems like a Jay qb to me.  He can play in a WCO.  He is relatively consistent and seems to play smart. His arm isnt great but is at least OK. Quick enough release. He can move in the pocket some.  I didnt like Finley initially but the more I watch him the more he has grown on me.  If he is there in the 3rd round, it wouldn't shock me if they took him. I dont think the dude is anything special but i can see him being relatively pro ready.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, RWJ said:

HigSkin posted a tweet over on the Starting QB thread that mentioned how Jay feels about Rosen.

 

If its the one where Jay said he was a good player I saw that tweet too on twitter. But you said we know Jay loves Rosen. If so that is different so not sure if I missed another comment? If you are extrapolating the point, its cool. To each their own. But for me love is a big climb from good player.

 

Reason why I am curious is a coach will almost always say something nice when asked about a player. So if it goes beyond that it can be meaningful. If i recall Jay said he thought Murray will be a great player. That's heavy handed.

 

As for Rosen. If I recall it was Keim who said they liked (not loved) Rosen before the 2018 draft. And Keim was not totally sure what they thought of him now. Hoffman if I recall thought they'd be intrigued to explore a trade but their first round pick was not on the table.

 

As for what Jay really feels about Rosen. I obviously don't know but if he really loved Rosen then I figure Hoffman will be proven wrong because how can't you trade a first roundrer for a qb you love? Hence that's why I am so curious. Ditto Jay loving any other qb in this draft because you'd figure they will target that guy hard.

 

Easy to see that you like Rosen a lot. For me, I don't hate him and don't love him.  Its somewhere in between for me.  I do think they will chase him in a trade. I do think if they like him they will stick to a 2nd rounder but if they love him they'd ultimately give up their first. Hence my curoisity. 

 

 

 

 

[volsmet]

Khazin Daniels, purify yourselves in the waters of lake Minnetonka, kid can play, no buzz at all, the perfect guy to let the ESers evaluate.

 

Have to get his hudl for you fine folks, the guy can’t even get a proper YouTube video. 

 

https://www.hudl.com/video/3/9100056/5a0dcd053448981278fdd4a0

[skinny21]

48 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Khazin Daniels, purify yourselves in the waters of lake Minnetonka, kid can play, no buzz at all, the perfect guy to let the ESers evaluate.

 

Have to get his hudl for you fine folks, the guy can’t even get a proper YouTube video. 

 

https://www.hudl.com/video/3/9100056/5a0dcd053448981278fdd4a0

Good find man.  Nuts that he’s able to play to that level blind in one eye.   

[volsmet]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

As for what Jay really feels about Rosen. I obviously don't know but if he really loved Rosen then I figure Hoffman will be proven wrong because how can't you trade a first roundrer for a qb you love? Hence that's why I am so curious. Ditto Jay loving any other qb in this draft because you'd figure they will target that guy hard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Jay has less influence, over personnel, than any coach in the league. From what I understand, he absolutely wanted to draft Derwin, didn’t necessarily want Collins, and would really like Rosen. All could be inaccurate, but I know his power is not something others envy. 

[oraphus]

16 hours ago, TheShredder said:

If the Cards take Murray, it's not certain they'd move on from Rosen unless someone gives them a second rounder, as there would be plenty of time in the day to get that second rounder.  My view is that it will be more telling what the Giants do at #6.  NY will have to give the Cards a higher draft pick for Rosen anyone else because there's too much time and +25 more picks before the 2nd round.  If the Giants want Rosen, then they'll have to give them their high second round pick.  They could trade down their other 1st round pick and make up that 2nd rounder. It's more likely that the Giants will get Rosen then anyone else.

 

Dont forget Giants also have #17 from the OBJ trade.. that might get it done.

[mistertim]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I think the Murray love is likely real. It came from the get go before it became obvious the Cards would take him. He by a mile has been the Qb that they heaped the most praise on to beat guys. And its been running from the get go, even before he officially announced.

 

To play devils advocate on the others:

 

A. Haskins- Jay might have concerns about the style and simple routes his offense had. And a qb who is average at best as to moving in the pocket as to his foot work and who was heavily reliant on major YAC (from a great supporting cast) from screens, shallow crossers, various mesh concepts - might struggle with this supporting cast. So maybe thats why Jay wouldnt think he'd be ready.

 

B. Rosen - agree on the footwork, the dude looks like a ballerina out there. But wonder about concerns with turnovers.  Some seem to think him being careless with the ball was an Arizona thing but nope some of those tendencies was shown in UCLA, too. Throwing the ball into coverage, when receivers aren't open. Fumbles like crazy. Takes a lot of sacks. Throws a lot of picks. Dont know if the Redskins scouts believe the reports that Rosen doesnt work hard.  So Rosen I think might have potential strikes.

 

C. As for Lock, you like hammering him about having good protection. But he also had a ton of drops from receivers. If I recall he had the most drops or close to it among the higher ranked eligible qbs in this draft. Saw someone on twitter defend Jones by citing drops but their stat showed it still wasn't as many as the drops for Lock.  If Jay doesn't like Lock, I'd guess its for his inconsistency which includes poor touch on short throws especially under pressure.

 

To me I think Lock and Rosen have similarities in that they are both gun slingers at times. They can be wildly inconsistent and make some really bad decisions. Both like going long. Both miss at times some of the easier short throws. I like Rosen's footwork and release better. I like Lock's arm and ability to throw on the move better. If I had to take one I'd take Lock.  Both to me are boom or bust but the boom would take time.

 

As for Jay, it wouldn't shock me if he isn't in love with any of the three if the motto truly is win or bust in 2019. Hard for me to see any of those three having instant success. On the other hand, Murray will likely play out of the shot gun and run a mostly spread offense so I can see him having instant success. And while I agree Jay isnt a spread offense type. And like you I am surprised that he'd like Murray that much but I can see him being tantalized by the dude's mega accuracy.

 

We hear no mention of Ryan Finley connected to them. But he seems like a Jay qb to me.  He can play in a WCO.  He is relatively consistent and seems to play smart. His arm isnt great but is at least OK. Quick enough release. He can move in the pocket some.  I didnt like Finley initially but the more I watch him the more he has grown on me.  If he is there in the 3rd round, it wouldn't shock me if they took him. I dont think the dude is anything special but i can see him being relatively pro ready.

 

 

 

I agree on a lot of this.

 

A. The issues Haskins has with footwork, movement in the pocket, and getting tons of YAC help from a great receiving corps are legit concerns for me as well. His footwork is not bad in general but to me it looks relatively slow/heavy and his strides are too long IMO. However, I do think that Jay would like his apparent ability to go through progressions, read defenses, and that he's at least relatively polished from the pocket. 

 

B. Yeah, Rosen does have the tendency to take too many risks which can end up in turnovers. And we all know how Jay feels about that, so that's a good point. To me with Rosen and Jay it would possibly come down to whether or not Jay thought he could tame those instincts a bit and how he would weigh that against Rosen's excellent footwork and mechanics. If they're considering this a "win now" year (whatever that even means anymore) but also want a young signal caller then Rosen might be their best bet.

 

C. I've been tough on Lock, that's true. That just comes from watching his cutups multiple times and seeing how easily he seems to be affected when facing a defense that gets pressure on him. He seems to panic a little and short throws things and just becomes much less accurate; his comp % in those games shows the same. I wasn't aware of his drops by WRs so I haven't really taken that into account. Thanks...do you have any links to overall dropped balls? Not saying you're making it up, but now I'm really curious how different QBs compare on that one. 

 

If the motto is "win or bust" in 2019 then I think that means we should all just wait and see who the new HC will be for 2020. We don't have the pieces to do anything significant this year. Alex is done, at the very least for the year. Colt is Colt and is also still gimpy. Keenum is a bit better than Colt but not by much. Rosen has tons of potential but will probably still take another season before truly getting there (if he is going to get there) and none of the rookies coming out are IMO guys who will be able to step in right away and succeed.

 

 

[lavar1156]

I kind of hope we draft another RB in the early rounds. Guice coming off injury and AP is old. A guy like Miles Sanders in the 2nd would be intriguing to me.

[Skin'emAlive]

With Gronkowski retiring, we have a huge opportunity, -provided Hockinson makes it to 15. In my mock, he's a very strong possibility of being available. #15 might be one of the better positions in this draft right now. New England has a plethora of picks, and holes everywhere on the offensive side of the board. If Hock is there, Im calling New England up immediately.

 

Washington trades

rd 1 #15  [Hockinson]

 

Washington receives

rd 1 #32

rd 2 #56

rd 3 # 97

 

(even after this trade, New England would still have a 2nd, and two 3rds)

 

That would leave us with 6 picks in the first 3 rounds. Every blaring hole save for TE and probably QB could be solved with those picks, and we could trade the farm next year for a QB if we are still in the dark by the end of next season.

 

#32: AJ Brown, WR

#46: Chase Winovich, Edge

#56: Germain Pratt, LB

#76: Juan Thornhill, S / Will Grier, QB

#96: Conner McGovern, OL

#97: Dillon Mitchell, WR

 

That would be so much better than trading up, or sitting at #15.

 

[HigSkin]

 

[PlayAction]

11 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

With Gronkowski retiring, we have a huge opportunity, -provided Hockinson makes it to 15. In my mock, he's a very strong possibility of being available. #15 might be one of the better positions in this draft right now. New England has a plethora of picks, and holes everywhere on the offensive side of the board. If Hock is there, Im calling New England up immediately.

 

Washington trades

rd 1 #15  [Hockinson]

 

Washington receives

rd 1 #32

rd 2 #56

rd 3 # 97

 

I can't see NE giving up that much for one player.  But if they are willing, why not?  There's a lot the Skins could do with those three picks

 

[redskindan07]

I'm hoping that is the case with Metcalf as I do not expect for him to turn out to be much. I'm leaning towards bust potential

[WelshSkinsFan]

Going off the draft points chart that is actually a pretty fair trade but I don't see NE doing it regardless.  I think they are more likely to give Green Bay a ham sandwich for Jimmy Graham and have him produce like he hasn't since his days in New Orleans, that would be standard operating procedure for those lucky ****s. 

[Cskin]

16 hours ago, TheShredder said:

I'd speculate that if you don't take Marquise Brown when he's available then you'll miss out on a player that would have changed your franchise.

 

Can't help get the W (Dub) if he's always in the tub.  Brown is talented, but always seems to pull up lame each year.  Give me Deebo or #TheCondor (Butler) in the 2nd.  

[Skin'emAlive]

Aaron Rodgers has traditionally been a wr quarterback. I can’t see Green Bay investing 14 in a TE when Aaron is always looking 30 yards downfield or looking for back shoulder throws repeatedly. A good TE is good with qbs looking for a quick hitter. Rodgers extends the play almost every down. I think they stick with graham and get another wr. 

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

 

C. I've been tough on Lock, that's true. That just comes from watching his cutups multiple times and seeing how easily he seems to be affected when facing a defense that gets pressure on him. He seems to panic a little and short throws things and just becomes much less accurate; his comp % in those games shows the same. I wasn't aware of his drops by WRs so I haven't really taken that into account. Thanks...do you have any links to overall dropped balls? Not saying you're making it up, but now I'm really curious how different QBs compare on that one. 

 

If the motto is "win or bust" in 2019 then I think that means we should all just want and see who the new HC will be for 2020. We don't have the pieces to do anything significant this year. Alex is done, at the very least for the year. Colt is Colt and is also still gimpy. Keenum is a bit better than Colt but not by much. Rosen has tons of potential but will probably still take another season before truly getting there (if he is going to get there) and none of the rookies coming out are IMO guys who will be able to step in right away and succeed.

 

 

 

As to your request about posting the tweet about Lock.  I typically post a lot of tweets on this thread but right now am in the UK with just my android and not sure how to post tweets from it.  But when I return next week I can dig it up. If you are on twitter and did a search on Lock it would likely pop up.

 

I didn't really though need to see the stat to get that vibe. It struck me from the games I watched from Lock.  I think I might of even commented on it on this thread way back.

 

My point on Lock is I think he has clear bust potential.  Boom-bust prospect. So am not living or dying by him.  But i think on the aggregate his team if anything was overmatched by the big boys in the SEC and had to do more with less.  I agree with you that he can struggle under pressure and I follow your train of thought on it as for his protection.  Same though can be said IMO for Haskins, Rosen, Jones and most others in this class. That is, they all struggle to a degree with pressure.

 

As for Jay being able to fix Rosen I am intrigued by that because he has intriguing tools. But I'd have to hope that Casserly and Ledyard are wrong about them hearing that Rosen isn't a hard worker. I've quoted Arian's book about QBs a lot on this thread and among his points is that for a QB to be successful in this league they must be ultra studious.

 

Even accomplished guys like Brady are still workaholics and constantly study. He goes if you dont do that you are going to be fooled by defensive coordinators who are going to lay traps to foil them. And the studious qbs tend to be prepared for said traps. I just wonder if that's part of Rosen's issues because to my naked eye he makes too many dumb looking throws where you wonder what is he seeing?

 

As for Lock to me he is a wild ride. Ups and downs.  He can make some really nice throws and has good accuracy deep. But he is inconsistent and for a dude with a strong arm he oddly short arms a lot of throws.  I like his potential though.  He has above average athletcism coupled with arm strength. 

 

The more I think about it, I'd rather not draft Lock if he drops to 15 because I expect better prospects than him will fall to us.  I wouldn't hate it though. I wouldnt't hate Rosen either if its a 2nd rounder. But I admit some of this is emotional for me. I hate not having any hope at the QB spot so I'd enjoy having at least the fantasy that they got an up and comer qb.

 

I've gotten hit over the years from time to time from detractors of our young QBs. But for me I have no personal attachment to any player on this team. But I tend to have the back of every young qb we draft.  Part of that is driven by IMO you need to give every young QB time and patience. The other part of it is IMO you got almost no shot to win big in this league without a QB and they are really really hard to find. So I hate giving up on anyone without giving them time. So if they draft someone (even if it isn't one of my favs) at QB I'll likely have their back for awhile. Heck even if it ends up the dude I've hammered the most on this thread, Daniel Jones.😉

 

[mistertim]

38 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

Not super surprising to me. Jay seems to put a premium on route running for his WRs and that is Metcalf's biggest weakness, both due to the limited route tree he ran in college and in the fact that his 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle times were so god-awful. Also, if the reports are correct that the Skins in general are looking for immediate contributors then a guy like Metcalf wouldn't really fit that bill in the sort of structured offense that Jay runs. I'd look for them to be interested in a Marquise Brown, Parris Campbell, Deebo Samuel, etc as those guys are all good route runners. 

[Est.1974]

Darnell Savage is a damn good prospect.

[skinny21]

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Darnell Savage is a damn good prospect.

Absolutely.  I’ve been thinking 2nd round for a while now - he’s right in there with Thornhill IMO (who could even go in the 1st).  That speed really shows up on tape.  

[clskinsfan]

19 hours ago, lavar1156 said:

I kind of hope we draft another RB in the early rounds. Guice coming off injury and AP is old. A guy like Miles Sanders in the 2nd would be intriguing to me.

 

They still love Perine at this point. I dont get it. He is a JAG. And I agree with you we need another young back.

 

Speaking of RB. How is Bryce Love feeling right now. The guy was a sure first rounder in last years draft and decided to go back to school. I am seeing projections of him being a 6-7 to maybe even an UDFA after tearing his ACL in his final game. Talk about a bad decision. Whoever was advising that guy should be fired.

[JaxJoe]

I’m wondering about the possibility of drafting a center like Bradbury (N.C. State) or McCoy (Texas A&M) instead of a guard. Chase Roullier wasn’t that great last year and maybe he could slide over to guard?  Or maybe draft both center and guard as we certainly could use more depth. 

[skinny21]

21 hours ago, lavar1156 said:

I kind of hope we draft another RB in the early rounds. Guice coming off injury and AP is old. A guy like Miles Sanders in the 2nd would be intriguing to me.

I certainly don’t mind the idea of grabbing a back, but I think 2nd is too high.  For one, we (seem to) have three quality backs, though we do need a backup/replacement for Thompson.  For two, backs typically face much shorter development time and so we could wait to draft one (relatively early) next year.  Lastly, a late round or UDFA back (or 2) to develop/evaluate this year and stash on the PS could then take over for AP or serve as a 4th back next year (and as a 5th this year).