2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[PartyPosse]

If they’re not in love with a guy then it doesn’t make sense to use one of their top two picks on a guy. Plain and simple.

[volsmet]

Watched enough Rosen, he’s so much better than Jones it’s a joke. I’d probably prefer Rosen to Lock right now, I’d trade pick 15 for Rosen in about 3 seconds. 

 

 

 

 

[JoggingGod]

Daniel Jones is a 3rd rounder that is hyper up extensively to a top 15 pick. He’s big and can run but offers nothing else right now.

[volsmet]

Rosen is who I’d like Lock to be. I’d absolutely move Rosen ahead of Lock. You get the rookie contract, his year of experience playing with bums, and you don’t have to trade future picks? That’s silly, people are so enamored with the unknown/potential. Rosen makes throws that are just insane, his movement in the pocket is savant level, if you can get this guy for pick 15, you have your QB taken care of for 15 years. Bust potential is zero. He’s much better, today, than Cousins ever was or could be. It’s not close. People baffle me with their baffling ways. 

 

To know that, right now, there are real humans, who would prefer Grier in any round, than trade pick 15 for Rosen, is a perfect example of how we all live in some meta-Jonestown where goobers steal your common sense because they can tell you what a 3 tech is. 

 

 

This guy thrown in v Seattle with his squad of bums after watching Grier v Kansas is absolutely hilarious.

 

[Going Commando]

21 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

Okay what? This entire write up is dead wrong. Dude is wicked accurate, has a good arm, and has decent mobility. His ceiling I’d say is Matt Ryan, and that’s a big complement. 

😆

 

You've never a Josh Rosen game, have you?

[Skinsinparadise]

Tua has giant hands, interesting

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, volsmet said:

Rosen is who I’d like Lock to be. I’d absolutely move Rosen ahead of Lock. You get the rookie contract, his year of experience playing with bums, and you don’t have to trade future picks? That’s silly, people are so enamored with the unknown/potential. Rosen makes throws that are just insane, his movement in the pocket is savant level, if you can get this guy for pick 15, you have your QB taken care of for 15 years. Bust potential is zero. He’s much better, today, than Cousins ever was or could be. It’s not close. People baffle me with their baffling ways. 

 

 

This guy thrown in v Seattle with his squad of bums after watching Grier v Kansas is absolutely hilarious.

 

 

In my opinion

 

Arm strength:  Lock

throwing on the move:  Lock

Athleticism: Lock

Personality: Lock

Decision making:  achilles heel for both but I'd take Lock

Toughness in the pocket: tie -- maybe Rosen

Consistent throwing motion:  Rosen

Footwork:  Rosen

 

 

I gave a longer write up in the QB thread.   Watch his other game against Seattle from December 30th.  Rosen was awful IMO.   I've watched 6 games of his now -- combination of college and the pros.  Cliff notes:

 

Upside:

Beautiful throwing motion and footwork, can escape pressure at times even though he is a pocket QB and looks nifty doing it.  Good albeit not great arm strength.  His passes between the numbers to the intermediate part of the field (10-15 yards or so) he's deadly accurate on.  He's really tough in the pocket and can hang with his reads in spite of things crashing around him.   He's willing to throw in tight windows.  If some here (me included) were frustrated by Alex's conservative tendencies -- no worries about Josh on that front.  Quick release when he knows what he wants to do.

 

Downside

He makes atrocious decisions too many times.  You can see it in college too where he got away with it.   He doesn't hesitate it seems to throw in double coverage or even when receivers aren't open.  He has a Rex let it fly gene to a fault.  For a dude with such a pretty throwing motion his accuracy isn't special.   He is Mr. Turnovers:  45 sacks.  10 fumbles and he didn't even play the full season.  An awful INT-TD ratio.  He makes a ton of ill advised throws.  Even though he has nice footwork to escape pressure -- he doesn't have the athleticism to always do it.

 

Cooley's take (which he did his film review after I posted mine so I wasn't influenced by what he said) is that Rosen is a project.  He hammered even harder than I do here on his turnovers.  He went through them about how he had easier reads but seems determined to fling it down the field so he holds the ball longer than he should so that leads to some of his sack issues and INTs.  He thinks he has poor touch on the short throws, struggles with the concept of checking down when things aren't open.  He agrees with me to a tee about what I list as his positive attributes.  He said no way he'd even give up a 2nd rounder for him.  So he's tougher on Rosen than I am.  I'd give up a 2nd.  I see some potential with Rosen that I like. 

 

IMO he's not going to survive with averaging about 1 fumble a game and multiple INTs.  And I don't put that all on the Arizona O line, some of that from what I observed is in the style he plays.  Some say he's arrogant -- he plays IMO with an over the top confidence that burns him.  If that doesn't change he will be a bust IMO.  I'd feel differently if he was deadly accurate but he isn't.  I like Lock more but as I've said on this thread he has some bust potential too for different reasons. 

[Anselmheifer]

Volsmet, I can't believe you wasted those precious moments of my life with that Wren video. I could only watch half. I don't know if I've ever seen anything so boring. He was completely invisible. If he wasn't highlighted before every play, you would have no idea that you were watching tape of a DL prospect. Didn't stand out from the other members of the DL at all. No splash plays. Nothing impressive. 

 

I really like Taylor Rapp. Washington had a really great secondary between Rapp and Murphy. Rapp seems smart and fast and versatile. I think he'll make a great pro. Seems like a NE type player. We should start drafting some of those. 

Is there a reason that Nasir Adderly didn't participate in any testing?

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Tua has giant hands, interesting

 

Like a bigger version of Russell Wilson.

[Anselmheifer]

NFL.com has Abram and Byron Murphy as two of its combine winners. I love both players. As I said before, I wish we could get both. 

 

Byron Murphy, CB, Washington: The Washington star didn't post an impressive 40 time (4.55), but he might've exhibited the best footwork and technique of any defensive back in the building. Murphy is smooth and fluid as a turner, and looks like an MLB center fielder in action. With Murphy impressing scouts and coaches with his football IQ in meetings, the playmaking corner could remain a Day 1 prospect despite his times.

 

Johnathan Abram, S, Mississippi State: The top safety prospect in the class made a strong statement about his No. 1 status with a solid workout in Indy. Abram posted a 4.45-second 40 and knocked out 16 reps on the bench press. He also flashed decent movement skills and impressed in interviews. Considering his A+ game tape and solid reputation as a leader, it's easy to project Abram as a Day 1 starter.

 

I don't mean this as an insult. Abram reminds me a little of pre-steroids Laron Landry, but not quite as fast. He's not going to be a center fielder, but can cover some and will be a sideline to sideline nightmare. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Ed Oliver goes to 18 in McShay's last mock.  I recall SteveMcQueen1 thought he might be a surprising fall albeit I recall he likes him a lot as a player.  I've seen Oliver close in some mocks to 15 but usually going just ahead of our pick.  But it looks like there is a fighting chance that Oliver has a Jonathan Allen type of fall. 

[HigSkin]

Chris Simm's  on PFT this morning ranked his top draft QB -

 

Murray

Lock

Haskins

Finley

Stidham

Jones

Thorson

Grier

[SemperFi Skins]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Ed Oliver goes to 18 in McShay's last mock.  I recall SteveMcQueen1 thought he might be a surprising fall albeit I recall he likes him a lot as a player.  I've seen Oliver close in some mocks to 15 but usually going just ahead of our pick.  But it looks like there is a fighting chance that Oliver has a Jonathan Allen type of fall. 

 

My 2nd favorite player in the class who could very well be in the DROY discussion when all is said and done...

[volsmet]

I’m going to make my final post on Grier, if you still want Washington to draft him, after I clearly display why he’s an atrocious prospect, it’s not going to be because we “agree to disagree”, it’s going to be because you’re stubborn, which is fine, but this is not difficult, it’s not going to be unclear, it is going to be exhaustive.... and, frankly, a bit of a pain in the butt, watching this is brutal. This is what love of community looks like. 

 

ok, play #1.

 

This here is middle school football 101, many here, wrongly, blamed the offensive line for Grier’s atrocious display v ISU. This is as unaware as QB play gets, this is as bad as a QB can process simple concepts ... this is, Will Grier, a guy who is nearly 2 years older than Rosen, vs ISUs 2 star recruits.

 

He is gifted a first down, he turns it into a loss of 18, all on his own. There are more problems, from Will, on this play than I have time to explain, but the most obvious are pointed out in the pictures. This pass is a read he should have made before the snap, the ISU blitz is not disguised at all, just replace the guy with the football, before the snap I knew where it needed to go... but Will misses that, then has time, and still can’t process the play. This is a joke. 

 

Play #2, every play has a litany of issues, but this is the arm issue. WVU wants to get the ball to the side side, Grier is struggling, ISU is laughing at the idea of Grier getting the ball out there, and Will displays why, plainly. 

 

You see Will get the snap, then need to lock his set facing the sideline, shuffle into the throw to try and get the velocity he doesn’t have without his mechanics being perfect, and the ball still doesn’t make it. The time it takes him to get ready for such a simple pass is a disaster in the nfl. The velocity he lacks is a disaster. This is a pass Josh Rosen, for instance, flicks over while backing up with his eyes keeping the defense from jumping all over it. Will doesn’t have the arm for it. 

 

That effort, look at his feet in play 2, he has to put every bit of energy his body can create into trying to make a pass that needs to be routine/effortless in the NFL, 100 times out of 100.

 

I credit him for what he was able to accomplish in college, but every single person who tells you that this guy is draftable, is wrong. Everyone who has him in their top 5-7 QB prospects should never be allowed to discuss the position again. 

 

Play #3, he has a WR open on 2nd and 11, with 46 seconds left, down 6. Then he has his RB waiting for the ball. Then he gets frustrated and strolls beyond the los before tossing the ball away. The play prior, Will ran out of bounds, for a loss... mentally he gets lost, emotionally & schematically.

 

Play #4 - Sills can get the ball, on the move, in the place two blisters vacated, but Grier elects to go deep, which is ok, but Sills is likely to get the first down, the protection is phenomenal, Grier makes a bad pass, after a bad decision, then they punt again. You let Sills make a play in that spot, he’s a big, tough, fast sr, get him the ball. 

 

The defense will tell you where to go, all you’ve got to do is listen. 

 

Play #5 - Grier only acknowledging the short side on 3rd and 2, he has a window to hit the TE, but Grier has Zero anticipation... anyone who says otherwise is wrong. It’s not something particularly nuanced, Grier just holds the ball firefer and his release, feet, and processing are all slow. 

 

Grier has a running lane, but his moxy fails him and he eats a sack, that’s on him. The routes exhausted themselves, he’s a 23 year old sr, he didn’t know what to do, so he sat there until someone else determined the outcome of the play. Grier just sits there staring into traffic until he is sacked, which is entirely on him. 

 

Play #6 - Grier has his TE immediately, probably a first down. Grier’s protection holds, ISU is baiting the middle of the field, but there are no routes there, ISU should be exposed on this play with no pressure and 1 on 1s vs Grier & WVUs excellent WRs. 

 

Grier holds, holds, holds, panics, misses his reads, then takes, yet another, pathetic sack. He could, at minimum, throw it away, but he’s just awful. He kills the team repeatedly even when his coach has put him in position to succeed. This entirely on him, not the OL. He’s down 2 scores, he’s got 1 on 1s, he... takes a sack after holding the ball forever. This is Iowa State, not the Cowboys. 

 

Play #7 - Will just won’t throw the football, it’s nit a complicated play, he’s got plenty of time, the script leaves his team desperate for a play, he’s got an option ... if he’s got an arm. He doesn’t have an arm, so he just messes his pants until someone, inevitably, brings him down. Pathetic.

 

Play #8 - Hilarity. Just throw it Will, 3rd and 24, nothing to lose, you did a great job to buy some time, give a guy a chance. How Will ended up back in the end zone... unbelievable. He just won’t throw the football, it’s embarrassing to watch. Mentally he struggles mightily & physically he’s a limited athlete with a high school gun. Ole radar ... eh, I’ll share Radars 45 yard duck too as play #9. It’s fine to put a ball up, I wish he’d do it more frequently, but this guy has nothing.. he gave it all he had for 45 yards, it just fluttered into a 2 star recruits hands. 

 

Play #9 - Humiliation. Two guys wide open, and he probably could have walked into the end zone. Instead, he takes another inexplicable sack ... vs ... Kansas. Absolute bums, his coaches and teammates couldn’t make it easier, but he just sits there like a buffoon, over... and over ... and over. It’s not moxy. Look at the room the DBs give WVU on the wide side, that’s something Grier can’t exploit v Kansas DBs, his arm is too weak. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[JoggingGod]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

😆

 

You've never a Josh Rosen game, have you?

You’ve never watched any of his college tape so...

[pcbothwel]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

I have to say... i think I have the same rankings as Simms does

[Skin'emAlive]

Well I mean if we are going to cherry pick bad plays, anyone can look bad. The 3rd and 2 play had no shot of working. The hot read had two eyes on the route. On the 3rd and 4, the Center was obliterated and Grier clearly did not have his feet set in a way that would provide a dump off option. I wouldnt put that completely on him there. The other plays, were poor reads or decision making his Will's part. There is definitely room for improvement. We are talking about 2nd tier QB options here, not a top 10 pick, and I dont think anyone other than Kyler is really deserving of that distinction this year.

 

Ive seen comps that had Will as a cross between Andy Dalton and Matt Moore. Both of those possibilities would be great. Moore was a fantastic backup for many years. Dalton had the misfortune of playing under Marvin, and in a division with Baltimore and Pittsburgh, but overall hes been pretty damn good. I think hes somewhere in between. Worst case scenario with Will is that he is not a starter in this league, but is a terrific backup qb that can fill and has the confidence to come in at anytime, and more often than not makes good decisions with the football. I think next year's class of QB's are much better and would absolutely sell the farm to get Tua in DC.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, volsmet said:

I’m going to make my final post on Grier,

 

You have to make yourself clear on Grier though are you in or are you out?  😀

 

 

 

 

Another mock below just out.  Oliver drops to 14.  Three QBs in the top 4. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skins Skeptic]

First post...

 

1. The top 2 picks in this draft will be Murray and Lock. I think Oakland, NYG and Denver will be in the running for Lock.

2. If Washington trades for Rosen, it will be for a 3rd and a young, cheapish player. The ones that come to mind are Roullier, Ioannadis, Moreau, Johnson or Adonis.

3. If Washington doesn't trade for Rosen, they will try for Carr. Lower price, I'd guess, assuming Oakland moves up to get a guy they want. Not sure how the money works though.

 

At 15, I hope we go with one of the 2 MLBs or an EDGE. Some impact players might be there at those positions. 

[PartyPosse]

No team is gonna trade for Carr considering he's basically a lock to be cut after next season. I mean his dead cap number will be 5 mil

[Anselmheifer]

I had one other thought about Abram. Not only does he time fast, but I would say that he plays faster than his time when flying downhill against the run, or to the flats for screen passes etc. That is an extremely useful skill set in a conference with Saquan Barkley and Elliott. I think I'd rather have Abram than Landon Collins. My only worry is Abram's durability. His combine weight was 20 pounds less than that of Collins, and he is such a sudden and physical player. 

[Skinsinparadise]

The Missouri quarterback wasn’t from a great program like Murray or Haskins and wasn’t as visible, but he’s moving up steadily in several mock drafts. ESPN’s Todd McShay has the Dolphins taking him at No. 13 in his latest mock draft.

“If the Ryan Tannehill era is indeed coming to a close, Lock would give new offensive coordinator Chad O'Shea a quarterback to develop,’’ McShay wrote. “Lock has great mobility and arm strength, even though he needs some work with mechanics and ball placement.”

 

Lock has the size (6-3, 224 pounds) and experience (a three-year starter). He’s a pro-style quarterback, but Chris Simms of Pro Football Talk said he is “phenomenal” at throwing on the run. Simms, in fact, ranked Lock ahead of Haskins among QB prospects.

 

Said Simms: “A lot of times the first things I hear about Lock from scouts or people on TV now is, ‘Oh, they didn’t win a lot of big games this year’ or ‘The offense wasn’t as good this year.’ Well, again, those weren’t Drew Locke problems. Missouri, nine out of 10 times when they step on the field in the SEC, was the least talented team on the field.”

Simms said Lock has a “special arm like a Patrick Mahomes, like a Baker Mayfield, like an Aaron Rodgers. I’m not saying it’s that powerful. But he can throw it on any platform.

“He’s a natural, gifted thrower … I really like Drew Lock. He’s NFL-ready right now, and he’s a big-time thrower of the football.”

 

At last week’s NFL combine, Lock said he models his game after Rodgers. “Just the stuff that he does off-platform. I throw a lot off weird platforms. My feet aren’t necessarily in the ground perfect all the time. We throw from weird arm angles. I get critiqued about it. He gets critiqued about it. But that’s just our style of game. That’s what we do, and that’s what we’re proud of.”

Of course, the question becomes if Lock’s stock will continue to rise and be off the board by the time the Dolphins are set to make their pick on April 25.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/dave-hyde-blog/fl-sp-hyde5-dolphins-quarterback-draft-20190307-story.html

[RabidFan]

Is there a list put out of the players we interviewed in the combine and/or who we plan to invite to the Park for additional or 1st time visits?

 

I know the draft is some time out but figured we'd know who we met with in Indy....hell even Bruce said we met with Murray and Finlay said we really liked him.

[clskinsfan]

@voismet I agree with you on Grier. I want no piece of him at all. His arm strength alone disqualifies him in my book. Now he may end up one of those 12 year clipboard guys because I understand he is incredible on the board and in the meeting room. Future coaching material? Probably. Future NFL star? Not a chance.